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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

ClarenceMage said:
The reason why you would never use a punch button to charge pinion dash is because in the air, fly->holding punch->press another punch = unfly, not a normal.
I don't think that's how negative edge works. You have to unpress it in conjunction with the punch you're doing to get the neg edge unfly to happen
 
WarpedEcho said:
I don't think that's how negative edge works. You have to unpress it in conjunction with the punch you're doing to get the neg edge unfly to happen

Go into training mode with Painwheel.

Hold LP.

Fly.

Press MP.
 
Ive got the beta back now (fuck you cm for being right about everything you beautiful man)

And my thoughts about pinion button holds... This is REALLY REALLY REALLY bad. I cant start charging pinion in the middle of fly cause ill unfly, i cant empty jump forward and charge pinion because a kick will come out when I'm empty jumping. It is impossible to do cr.lk,cr.mk xx pinion which is one of her best ways to do it.

Its really hard to do pinion plus assist. Almost all of the utility of the move is taken away and it is almost literally only combo fodder now.

Can we pls pls pls get the motion changed to qcb+p? It makes so much sense to just do that especially when the level 3 is on those buttons as well. And there is no chance of input overlap when pinion can be 1 button and the other is 2 buttons.
 
ClarenceMage said:
The reason why you would never use a punch button to charge pinion dash is because in the air, fly->holding punch->press another punch = unfly, not a normal. Also all of Painwheel's punch buttons have utility in the air, j.LP~j.MK for close fast air confirm, j.MP for general footsie, j.HP for armour/getting in/shenanigans.

Holding kicks will be pretty niche as well considering that our standard chains more often than not include two kicks: c.lk > c.mk
 
What about Sonic Boom kick, and the longer you charge back the higher level your pinion dash is? Or something. I don't know. I don't play Painwheel.
 
Zidiane said:
What about Sonic Boom kick, and the longer you charge back the higher level your pinion dash is? Or something. I don't know. I don't play Painwheel.

I think even a charge would be rough since:
- Our long range pressure revolves around qcf (nails) which ruins a charge.
- Our offense consists largely of 9j.mp which ruins a charge.
- Our combos rely on qcf(reaper) and qcb(flight) > 3/6/9 air moves all of which ruin charges.
- Hell, basic j.mp > j.mk > j.mk confirms more often than not require us to hit 2/3/5/6/8/9 to actually confirm all of which would ruin a charge (and the 2x j.mk confirm is crucial to any meaningful PW play)

It could potentially see some use on defense if you're stuck in block stun, but it would really need invuln start-up for that to be useful. Without invuln start-up, it is just a move that is likely going to be hit out of start-up (10 frammes) or punished on block (-9 frames).

I could be way wrong here to be honest, I started playing right as Pinion was being phased out so maybe some folk have some awesome tech with it... though I do vaguely remember how frustrating it was learning combos and getting accidental pinions due to my piss poor execution.
 
Spencer said:
Holding kicks will be pretty niche as well considering that our standard chains more often than not include two kicks: c.lk > c.mk

This is why I said you'd charge LK+HK during Painwheel's air footsie phase, you don't need c.LK to fast low confirm if you're fishing for j.MP conversions, j.HK is a horrible footsie tool, and if you want a light normal to be fast you've got j.LP. If you wanted a low confirm anyway, you've still got c.MK s.HP.

Pinion dash being turn punch motion with LK+HK fits neatly into her gameplan, and takes no tough motions. though it does make calling assists awkward. I would make my assist macros LP+MK, and MK+HP if I were to be using pinion dash as a staple move.
 
Qcb+p
Qcb+p
Qcb+p
Qcb+p


Pls for the love of god no button hold stuff, button holds are the bane of fighting games and are even worse than half circles. I dont see why we cant get qcb+p.

Pls tell me a good reason balancewise why we cant get qcb+p?
 
ClarenceMage said:
This is why I said you'd charge LK+HK during Painwheel's air footsie phase, you don't need c.LK to fast low confirm if you're fishing for j.MP conversions, j.HK is a horrible footsie tool, and if you want a light normal to be fast you've got j.LP. If you wanted a low confirm anyway, you've still got c.MK s.HP.

Pinion dash being turn punch motion with LK+HK fits neatly into her gameplan, and takes no tough motions. though it does make calling assists awkward. I would make my assist macros LP+MK, and MK+HP if I were to be using pinion dash as a staple move.

Macros... pshhh.

So assuming you get a charge easily enough fishing around in the air, then what? What's the point of it? Extra damage in a combo?
 
Not really a fan of Diamond Deflector losing the hitbox since some people were using it for goofy resets, seems like an odd thing to nerf.
 
I figure the reason behind the Reflector Change is something along the lines of "It's an uber godlike projectile counter, it really doesn't need to do anything else"
Bella can just guess Reflect at midrange against Parasoul; if she guessed Tearshot right, she gets a full combo; if she guessed wrong and say Parasoul dashed in instead, Para still gets hit -- that's a bit silly IMO.
 
Wow. We got some changes. Didn't see any of these coming.

I'm fine with Deflector being hittable by non-projectiles. Don't know how I feel about it not hitting. P-sure I don't like it though.

I can understand Tenrai-ha changes (surprised it didn't happen sooner). Super change is weird. Does it do less damage fully scaled? Blockstun item drop is cool. Fake teleport is now a total of 12f longer? It'll be even harder for people to land it now, I think. Assist teleport crossups are out the window. They were annoying, but I don't think they were that big a problem. Snapping an assist will now let you steamroll Peacock even harder for 300f (that's the lockout period, right?).

j.mk is really strange? It's going to be weird getting hit while crouch blocking an attack that's coming out bellow you. Why not invert the attack so it comes from above? That trick was good enough for Guile. It's also weird taking away one form of mixup she has (teleport assist) and giving her another. Though teleport assist can be done anywhere at any time, so it's not quite the same.
 
Man there would be a ton of Peacock changes on a night where I won't have a chance to play Skullgirls, lol

Having not played with any of these changes these are my initial impressions:

- Taunt is now super-cancellable at any time. You still only get the bonus at the end.
I didn't realize it didn't already work that way.
Taunted Tenrai-ha drop is not used up until you drop a Tenrai-ha, Lv1 and Lv2 items do not get rid of it anymore; Tenrai-ha removed from un-taunted Lv3 item drop choices, can only be dropped after a taunt.
Tenrai-ha can really mess up some conversions if you're not expecting it, so not getting it at random is actually kind of good.
Argus Agony small laser volley length reduced from 90f to 60f; damage and knockback on big laser increased to compensate. (Argus-item-Argus still works, Argus-LK George-Argus does not.)
Argus > LK George > Argus worked without an item drop? I didn't know that. So I guess a thing I didn't know you could do got removed, I don't know how I should feel about that. Uh, I wonder if changing the small laser volley affects DHCs out of Argus Agony. That'll be the first thing I'll want to check when I have the game in front of me.
Item drop released during blockstun will not drop until 20f after blockstun ends; item drop held through blockstun can still be manually released immediately after blockstun ends.
Kind of a significant nerf but I guess you can get around it by like timing and thinking and stuff, sounds like a lot of work but what can you do.
Both startup and recovery on fake teleport (QCB+K~P) are 6f longer. That means more startup invincibility, and you can still combo off the bomb easily.
Man 12 frames is a lot of frames. I already felt like fake teleport was reactable. I guess I'll have to see how bad this is.
If any assist is on the field or locked out (i.e. Peacock is unable to call an assist), Peacock can't teleport behind her opponent; HK teleport becomes MK teleport instead. Solo Peacock / Peacock with all teammates dead can teleport behind at any time.
GOOD. Fuck you, TJ! You can't see it but I'm flipping off the screen.
j.MK is now overhead. It's not gonna be a low, and she is in the air, and it's slowish, so we might as well try this for a bit. You pretty much always block it high anyway, but now she gets some mixups with landing.
Dang, this actually sounds like a really good buff to me. I was never as big a fan of this move as some Peacock players, but if it's a real ass mixup I'm gonna start using it a lot for sure.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Argus > LK George > Argus worked without an item drop? I didn't know that. So I guess a thing I didn't know you could do got removed, I don't know how I should feel about that.
The way this reads I read this as is "Triple Argus doesn't exist anymore", which is a thing you did?

Uh, I wonder if changing the small laser volley affects DHCs out of Argus Agony. That'll be the first thing I'll want to check when I have the game in front of me.
I doubt it's any different, will just be less shots. It will give you more damage for DHCs prior to the small volley (eg Argus>BFF or Argus>SSJ, which don't work reliably after the small shots start), though.

Dang, this actually sounds like a really good buff to me. I was never as big a fan of this move as some Peacock players, but if it's a real ass mixup I'm gonna start using it a lot for sure.
It sure does sound strange to have a move overhead that comes out from below you, but I'm sure Beta players can report on whether it's actually confusing
 
IsaVulpes said:
The way this reads I read this as is "Triple Argus doesn't exist anymore", which is a thing you did?
That's what I thought at first too, but then I reread it and it didn't say Argus, drop item, LK George, Argus. If it does mean you can't triple Argus I don't really care, I would normally DHC to Big Band's level 3 if I had that much bar.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Bella can just guess Reflect at midrange against Parasoul; if she guessed Tearshot right, she gets a full combo; if she guessed wrong and say Parasoul dashed in instead, Para still gets hit -- that's a bit silly IMO.
Beware
XNbWQaI.jpg

Cause you totally don't outrange that by a lot with dash c.lk/s.lp/s+f.mp as Parasoul, or even dash grab. Or if you jumped, j.lp/j.mk/j.hp. And you couldn't have read the Deflector and done Bike/s+f.hp xx sniper shot, whatever combo. Or something else interesting with your assists. I don't know.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
That's what I thought at first too, but then I reread it and it didn't say Argus, drop item, LK George, Argus.
That's definitely what he meant; you're minus after Argus, how would Argus-L.George-Argus function

The way I read it is (Item)-Argus-(drop Item)-Argus still works, while (Item)-Argus-(drop Item, George)-Argus-(George hits)-Argus doesn't anymore.

The only question I'd have is whether one can avoid this and still land Triple Argus via MK.George instead of L, but I figure that one would still be too fast?

Zidiane said:
Beware
Yeah, the best projectile counter move in the game by far (which also leads to combos or at least sliding knockdown on hit and destroys assists while it's at it) is also able to destroy Parasoul's Bike and has a hitbox that reaches farther out of the green than 90% of normals of half the cast.

Since it "doesn't matter" (as Parasoul could just avoid it by doing other moves from farther away), I'm sure you don't actually care!

On that note, can someone test what happens if Parasoul's Bike is on top of you and a Tearshot is about to connect as well? Apparently Reflect only makes you invinc to projectiles now, which would mean the Reflect happens but the Bike still grabs you? That'd actually be kinda big.
 
SonicFox5000 said:
can bella combo off of diamond dynamo mid screen from command throw again?
cuz fukua can >:C
Cuz fukua comman grab is totally 4f startup, invincible to throws for the entire move and invincible to hits too after the 3rd frame...
Diamond drop is a reversal. A good enough reason to not be able to combo after it easily.
 
Deflector changes, uh...
so now I can't deflect a projectile AND then block the brass assist rushing into my face. Sounds lovely.
For the hitbox, I don't quite get how it's interesting. Except if the point only was to give lvl3 less options to combo. Cuz diamond drop c.lk c.mp titan knuckle deflector lvl3 j.lp j.hp was too cool I guess?
 
That Peacock can't tele behind during assist lockout is both inelegant and awesome.

A lot of the solo game relies on locking out an assist and going in during that window. Versus Pea, this was exceptionally difficult because having to dodge projectiles eats up a ton of that time while a tele behind a walking George (to make it mostly safe) eats up the rest of the time, and you're back at square one.
 
Peacock not being able to teleport while an assist is on screen is awesome... Gotta try this out. But as it was peacock basically ported for free before, which was all kinds of stupid.


Not liking the val buffs, especially air shuriken buffs... Makes val better in the air than painwheel, which should not happen, and now shes got easy aerial hitconfirms as well... Making pw neutral kinda obsolete seeing how val has almost everything pw has, along with stupid easy assist pickups and turtle ability at the top of the screen where no one can touch her, and air fireballs that go near fullscreen and a kick special that goes fullscreen, and a run and a great jab, the only thing pw really has on val now is armor, safe dhc, and j.mp... Its like.... For real?
 
Didn't really utilize the small invincibility given on reflect to avoid some stuff. Only situation that immediately comes to mind is allowing bella to deflect her way through catheads>car without using Devil Horns (in those near the end of the round matches where double's just trying to chip bella out). Never actually seen it performed in a match, but could happen I guess.
 
Dime_x said:
Not liking the val buffs, especially air shuriken buffs... Makes val better in the air than painwheel, which should not happen, and now shes got easy aerial hitconfirms as well... Making pw neutral kinda obsolete seeing how val has almost everything pw has, along with stupid easy assist pickups and turtle ability at the top of the screen where no one can touch her, and air fireballs that go near fullscreen and a kick special that goes fullscreen, and a run and a great jab, the only thing pw really has on val now is armor, safe dhc, and j.mp... Its like.... For real?

Yeah, if Val is really hitting 8k at neutral, then I'm left scrambling for a reason to pick Painwheel over Val.

The standard line was that you picked Val for the mobility. You picked PW for damage. They fill a similar role and have similar strengths and weaknesses, so I'd be curious as to why people would pick PW over Val if they are getting similar damage (note: 8k is generally higher than anything PW does that isn't in the corner or a corner carry).
 
lmfao rip dash pressure
also so is BFF as a reversal @dragonos451 and its practically safe if you aren't in her face to call it. Cere's follow up combo took execution.
 
Val is hitting 8k midscreen only with vial.
Without, the combos are mostly unpractical and work in few characters.
I don't mind taking out some damage out of her bypass loops, tho.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Didn't really utilize the small invincibility given on reflect to avoid some stuff. Only situation that immediately comes to mind is allowing bella to deflect her way through catheads>car without using Devil Horns (in those near the end of the round matches where double's just trying to chip bella out). Never actually seen it performed in a match, but could happen I guess.
getting punished by car for deflecting a luger would kinda suck. Oh right, that's too gimmicky. What wouldn't be, humm...
Oh right...
The 325 times I had to block brass assist after deflecting against peacock/BB.

SonicFox5000 said:
also so is BFF as a reversal @dragonos451 and its practically safe if you aren't in her face to call it. Cere's follow up combo took execution.
uh, what is the point you're trying to get here? I wasn't talking about BFF reversal abilities (that are worse than diamond drop and costs a bar), I was talking about fukua command grab (-_0)
I understand you want to say that fukua is cheap, I can agree with this no problem, but maybe try using good arguments for that?
 
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