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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

LordTerminal said:
Nice try but I'm not holding my breath. Besides, no Ice Climbers or Wolf? Dixie instead of K. Rool? Yeah I don't understand how people think these things make sense sometimes.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm or
 
My honest to God, completely serious, no joke expectation is,

The Japanese version of the 3DS version is out.
The site has been updated with secret characters.
We're going to continue this pic of the day thing through the WiiU release.
 
I think next week will be a rush of cast reveals so the western audience can keep up with the release of the game in Japan. Then, WiiU stuff.
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
The leak list that's going around in fake, right?

Which leak list?

Buri said:
I think next week will be a rush of cast reveals so the western audience can keep up with the release of the game in Japan. Then, WiiU stuff.

More likely they're gonna keep doing 90% 3DS pics until the US launch. Or possibly have different pics for Japan and the rest of the world, Japan gets pics discussing the secret characters while the rest of us get menus.
 
i come bearing the gift of Lucina: the woman of MANY WAIFUS

tumblr_nbpmi7xt3Z1s12rrxo1_1280.png


Note: If Palette 2 is your waifu, please send yourself to the nearest jail in a self-addressed stamped envelope
tfw my Avatar married her cause I really wanted a DRAGON CHILD SOLDIER who was sadly outclassed by Tiki in every way later
 
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Goodbye18000 said:
i come bearing the gift of Lucina: the woman of MANY WAIFUS

tumblr_nbpmi7xt3Z1s12rrxo1_1280.png


Note: If Palette 2 is your waifu, please send yourself to the nearest jail in a self-addressed stamped envelope
tfw my Avatar married her cause I really wanted a DRAGON CHILD SOLDIER who was sadly outclassed by Tiki in every way later
ANNA.jpg

Seriously Anna color over Cordelia anyday ahwell we got Lisa and stalker so meh
 
So after watching more gameplay and playing the demo a shitton, I'm starting to think the new ledge mechanics and bigger blast zones are not that bad. In fact, I think it brings more balance to the game. Smash 4 rewards harassing your opponent off the stage, cause if you don't they're probably gonna recover. Knocking people too far off the stage to recover is a thing of the past, now if you want your opponent dead you need to take them to the blast zone yourself and make sure they stay there.

This also helps the heavies which used to be shit (just look at how good Bowser is now), since they will take hit after hit and not die, and STILL be able to recover. You HAVE to harass them off the side if you want them dead, all while they DO have the power to KO you without chase.

On the flipside, aerial based and light characters are able to chase off the stage better than ever while benefitting from the bigger blast zones, effectively receiving a passive buff both offensively and defensively. You-know-who which dominates the air will probably be top tier in this game.

And then there's Little Mac, and I don't know what to make of him. He's pretty much the one character who will still fall short of the ledge more often than due to his abysmal recovery. At least he has insane power on the ground.

Hopefully this means good things for the Smash 4 metagame.

BlackRoseAngel said:
All of them, I guess.

Some are, some aren't.
 
Crayolan said:
And then there's Little Mac, and I don't know what to make of him. He's pretty much the one character who will still fall short of the ledge more often than due to his abysmal recovery. At least he has insane power on the ground.

Wasn't that the point that Mac essentially trades recovery for massive damage and knockback?
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
Wasn't that the point that Mac essentially trades recovery for massive damage and knockback?

Yeah, but if what Crayolan is saying is true, Mac's going to be terrible in the meta-game since he can't chase people off the edge and can't recover when he gets knocked away.
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
Wasn't that the point that Mac essentially trades recovery for massive damage and knockback?

Yea, but he might be a little too extreme. Any Little Mac player is going to have to be REALLY good cause you can't afford to fuck up. You have far fewer chances to screw up before you're dead as Mac.

I have heard he acts an excellent counter for center characters though. Apparently Zelda is absolutely wrecked by him.
 
The main key about what Smash 4 seems to be about with edgeguarding and playing off stage is not just getting them off the edge. Because they'll just recover regardless for the most part, one strategy people are looking into to as effective is just making them get on the ledge too much. If you keep them off the ground and keep forcing them back on the ledge you can just keep abusing projectiles and hitboxes because they get no invul on ledge (or less and less) so you can just straight up kill them with a strong attack while they're on ledge anyway.

Thats the one thing about the game thats really different in the current newborn meta. The groundgame right now is preeetty much just Brawl, people say combos exist but no one is really doing them because DI is still a factor, so when YOU do get a combo or a string going. Its just to rack up a percent lead like in Brawl, not get them off stage and gimp like Melee. So, hopefully the ground game can pick up, people are figuring out some crazy movement shit so who knows what will happen.

But right now immediately the big difference in this games meta is ledge/recovery/offstage. Ledges having an almost magnet like effect, and the fact that you can grab regardless of which way your character is facing, is pretty crazy. Sweetspotting your recovery to get the ledge invul is not even a remotely difficult task anymore. Which is a pretty cool idea honestly because it makes characters with hella obvious/bad recoveries the ability to get the ledge invul easier. At the same time though being on the ledge in this game is reaaaally scary and dangerous.

Can't wait to see how it pans out, and with all of this being factored in. This might be the first (not PM) version of Smash where Ness isn't fucking awful.
 
Finally got a fabled demo code. I have to say, Link actually feels not terrible? I actually kind of think he might be better than Mario in the demo.
 
keninblack said:
The main key about what Smash 4 seems to be about with edgeguarding and playing off stage is not just getting them off the edge. Because they'll just recover regardless for the most part, one strategy people are looking into to as effective is just making them get on the ledge too much. If you keep them off the ground and keep forcing them back on the ledge you can just keep abusing projectiles and hitboxes because they get no invul on ledge (or less and less) so you can just straight up kill them with a strong attack while they're on ledge anyway.

Thats the one thing about the game thats really different in the current newborn meta. The groundgame right now is preeetty much just Brawl, people say combos exist but no one is really doing them because DI is still a factor, so when YOU do get a combo or a string going. Its just to rack up a percent lead like in Brawl, not get them off stage and gimp like Melee. So, hopefully the ground game can pick up, people are figuring out some crazy movement shit so who knows what will happen.

But right now immediately the big difference in this games meta is ledge/recovery/offstage. Ledges having an almost magnet like effect, and the fact that you can grab regardless of which way your character is facing, is pretty crazy. Sweetspotting your recovery to get the ledge invul is not even a remotely difficult task anymore. Which is a pretty cool idea honestly because it makes characters with hella obvious/bad recoveries the ability to get the ledge invul easier. At the same time though being on the ledge in this game is reaaaally scary and dangerous.

Can't wait to see how it pans out, and with all of this being factored in. This might be the first (not PM) version of Smash where Ness isn't fucking awful.

Absolutely. One interesting thing I noticed is Villager as a character. He's basically designed for edgeguarding/offstage; he's a character who wants to stay up in his opponents face and is given various tools for getting back into their comfort zone when separated. Then when an opponent is sent off the stage he can jump off at will with no need to worry about recovering thanks to that gyroid/balloons combo. Plus he has the tree/bowling ball/plant pot which really fuck with people trying to approach the ledge, forcing them to predict which you'll use, and if they're wrong 2/3 of the time that's a lost stock. I can't wait to try the rest of the newcomers and see if they're designed with similar mindsets.
 
When I'm watching streams, whenever the streamer or the opponent uses Mac, just watching Mac's movements and simply the WAY he throws his punches, just feel like they hurt. Even if he wiffs, the sound effects and, again, the motions of his punches, looks and sounds like he's hurting the air.
Just...EVERY THING looks like it hurts sssooooo much when Mac does ANYTHING!
He's definitely gunna be my sub-main.
 
RemiKz said:
Finally got a fabled demo code. I have to say, Link actually feels not terrible? I actually kind of think he might be better than Mario in the demo.
Good, sure.

Better than Mario, though? Nah.
 
I was playing earlier and both me and an AI grabbed the same ledge. Both of us were hanging off it for a bit until I jumped off.

Not sure how it happened, and obviously the AI is no exactly the best thing to try practicing it with.
 
Yeah, it's to get rid of sissies who just tried to get easy kills with edgehogging.
 
Okay so I'm going to address a few things that had me scratching my head but I've come to terms with and share some knowledge for anyone else learning the game:

When it comes to edge guarding and not getting those 250% kills, what I've been doing is jumping off and grabbing the ledge, then waiting for them to get closer.
When you're grabbing the edge I think your options are pretty good for the most part as they come closer (?)
- If they try and use their recovery to float over you, hit jump and position for a B-Air a bit above the ledge.
- When they try and recover lower and sweet spot the ledge, tap down and fast fall then jump into a B-Air and cancel into your recovery to grab the ledge again.
- If you wait on the stage too early, it's too easy to sweet spot the edge.

For some characters who can recover where ever they want you sort of have to commit to guarding the ledge or guarding the stage.
People like Pikachu can chose where they want to go, fast, it's hard to really punish it unless you were waiting for him before hand.
So try and read if he's going to go for the ledge or go for the stage and wait at either accordingly, just don't be there too early or he'll pick the other one.

Also for those with really good recoveries going balls deep off the stage for a B Air xx Jump xx Recovery is risky but worth it , most of the times if they try and fight back that far from the ledge they won't be able to use their recovery to grab the ledge or land on the stage anymore.
Their positioning will also most likely knock you towards the stage.

I'm glad I have the demo so I can practice my off stage game to make sure I'm not missing B-Airs, because the off stage game will probably be pretty important as it's hard to kill at low %'s.
Make use of Spikes like Mario's F-Air or more practical ones like I think Lucina's D-Air.

-----

You may have noticed the AI at level 9 likes to mash R to dodge on all your follows ups for your combos.
You can chain air dodges pretty fast and it's hard to punish them unless you read it before hand.
Once you get used to your chains with combos there's easy punishes for those mashing R until they get conditioned and stop (Extending your combos if you read the DI)
Ex: Mario D Throw, U-Tilt, U-Tilt, U-Tilt, U-Tilt
> U-Smash or D-Smash, Charge... Release (If they mash R they will fall into you and be open for the release)
> Short hop forwards, B-Air (If they don't mash R they're open to getting hit with a real combo ender)
> U-Tilt Frame Trap (Against Neutral A)

That's all for now, hope someone learned something.
(I'm new to smash so this is probably all already known, it's helpful for me to get my thoughts written down though)

DDB said:
Yeah, it's to get rid of sissies who just tried to get easy kills with edgehogging.
>Sissies for using the mechanics in the game to win.
Do you think throws are for sissies in SF too.
 
Most things that people think are combos with mario are actually just frame traps. I've been able to avoid almost every followup to dthrow > utilt > utilt by jumping and airdodging right after. Obviously it is prone to being read and having the airdodge punished, but 99% of the people playing right now have very little forethought.

Also I kind of hate not being able to z-drop bombs with Link without the hookshot coming out as well. Also kind of hate his new dash attack. Meteor dair is kinda legit though.
 
Skarmand said:
>Sissies for using the mechanics in the game to win.
Do you think throws are for sissies in SF too.
Joke's on you I do both things.
 
Lavama said:
He's not talking about UI! He's talking about an actual feature! Duh, hello!

I'm sorry.
Even though the games out, Sakurai's STILL POSTING PICTURES OF UI is what I meant to say.
 
BxiP_hhCMAAxGcO.png:large
Oh look. Wolf is also don there uncircled

Smashboard hackers are trying to hack the game now to confirm this.
 
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CountofBleck said:
BxiP_hhCMAAxGcO.png:large

Smashboard hackers are trying to hack the game now to confirm this.

This is interesting. This is very interesting.
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
Smashboards always seems to be 100% committed to ruining the game for everyone else. ¬_¬
It's why I don't join while I main Samus.

Read ever.
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
Smashboards always seems to be 100% committed to ruining the game for everyone else. ¬_¬

Only if you care about spoilers and don't want to know the entire roster up front.
Which is not everyone.
And I mean, we have a spoiler-free thread if you don't want to know.
 
TheMightyBox said:
Only if you care about spoilers and don't want to know the entire roster up front.
Which is not everyone.
And I mean, we have a spoiler-free thread if you don't want to know.

Eh, I can live with that. It's their greater sin of trying to impose their "Stop Having Fun!" bullshit on everyone who plays the game that gets under my skin.

NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!!!
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
Eh, I can live with that. It's their greater sin of trying to impose their "Stop Having Fun!" bullshit on everyone who plays the game that gets under my skin.

NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!!!

Nobody
actually
says that.
I understand the competitive Smash community (which by the way are part of everyone, so the game isn't ruined for them) has individuals that can be forceful with their beliefs,
but nobody ever limits characters, aside from maybe banning Meta-Knight, and stage selection goes beyond Final Destination, which in fact is biased towards some characters making platforms with stages like Fountain of Dreams more suitable for competitiveness, and items are really kinda bullshit in a competitive light, especially if there's money on the line like in tournaments because it leaves who wins entirely up to luck or at most whoever chose the most mobile character as opposed to actual skill.
Usually competitive "ruining" of the game realistically only extends to items off and don't go somewhere stupid like FlatZone (I actually really like FlatZone but that's beside the point).
 
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BlackRoseAngel said:
Eh, I can live with that. It's their greater sin of trying to impose their "Stop Having Fun!" bullshit on everyone who plays the game that gets under my skin.

NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!!!
I guess you believe Smogon is full of "Bans and OU only" as well, yes?

In a competitive environment, Having fun with as little randomness is possible is key. Having a stage like Pictochat come along and you lose because the stage says so would kill any sort of skill and fun in that environment. Especially when money, scholarships, and even trophies are on the line.

Imagine getting a Star K, doing a taunt, and then go flying to the left and dying from a Flying Birdmen.
 
TheMightyBox said:
Nobody
actually
says that.
I understand the competitive Smash community (which by the way are part of everyone, so the game isn't ruined for them) has individuals that can be forceful with their beliefs,
but nobody ever limits characters, aside from maybe banning Meta-Knight, and stage selection goes beyond Final Destination, which in fact is biased towards some characters making platforms with stages like Fountain of Dreams more suitable for competitiveness, and items are really kinda bullshit in a competitive light, especially if there's money on the line like in tournaments because it leaves who wins entirely up to luck or at most whoever chose the most mobile character as opposed to actual skill.
Usually competitive "ruining" of the game realistically only extends to items off and don't go somewhere stupid like FlatZone (I actually really like FlatZone but that's beside the point).

CountofBleck said:
I guess you believe Smogon is full of "Bans and OU only" as well, yes?

In a competitive environment, Having fun with as little randomness is possible is key. Having a stage like Pictochat come along and you lose because the stage says so would kill any sort of skill and fun in that environment. Especially when money, scholarships, and even trophies are on the line.

Imagine getting a Star K, doing a taunt, and then go flying to the left and dying from a Flying Birdmen.

I dun really care what people do in tournaments. I just remember how every time I tried to play an online match in SSBB, assuming the connection didn't drop, it was almost assuredly on one of the five "flat stages" and people always turned off items. I kinda like playing on Oddball stages like Norfair, Poke Floats, WarioWare and Frigate Orpheon with all the weird mechanics, and items just make the game unique and different so taking them out seems silly. Although I admit I dislike some stages and items, but who really likes Rumble Falls?

Just my opinion, that's all. Play how you want.
 
BlackRoseAngel said:
I dun really care what people do in tournaments. I just remember how every time I tried to play an online match in SSBB, assuming the connection didn't drop, it was almost assuredly on one of the five "flat stages" and people always turned off items. I kinda like playing on Oddball stages like Norfair, Poke Floats, WarioWare and Frigate Orpheon with all the weird mechanics, and items just make the game unique and different so taking them out seems silly. Although I admit I dislike some stages and items, but who really likes Rumble Falls?

Just my opinion, that's all. Play how you want.

Bro,
you can't start out with competitive players are ruining the game and backpedal into It's just my opinion play how you want.
Honestly, most competitive players will respect the way that you play the game, but you also got to respect how they play it. They're just trying to have fun the same as you are.
 
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TheMightyBox said:
Yeah, but if what Crayolan is saying is true, Mac's going to be terrible in the meta-game since he can't chase people off the edge and can't recover when he gets knocked away.

That's the thing, he doesnt need to chase them off the edge. High knock back and damage means that if he knock you off the stage, it's likely that you're staying off. Combine that with the nerf to stalling (can't grab the edge after letting go for a period of time), the ledge trumping mechanic, and his side B.... I dont see him having an issue as long as he's not playing stupid.
 
Link's new running A is really fun. Nothing like doing a jump slash at someone who is downed and sending them flying.

Until I can play the game with a real controller (GameCube or Pro), I'm withholding judgement on characters. Like, while not as extreme, it feels like say, playing Marvel vs Capcom 2 on iOS. It's still possible to do the crazy meta-game stuff, but it's not optimal. Especially without C-Stick yet.
 
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