• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Dime_x said:
Its a val specific problem i think. She tends to overshoot some assists such as L extend if you autopilot: call assist>run forward just as the assist makes contact...
Dime_x said:
A bit of first world problems, but its there and i imagine kind of annoying for some val players that use updo.

Ahaha, there's the ticket. (not laughing at you, dime).

What fun is an experiment if you don't test?!
uploadfromtaptalk1420296878043.jpg
 
Dime_x said:
Its a val specific problem i think. She tends to overshoot some assists such as L extend if you autopilot: call assist>run forward just as the assist makes contact...
Non-issues, okay.
 
KhaosMuffins said:
Thoughts on solo health snapback thingy:
I think I'm just echo'ing what Zid said again. Played a couple of matches in the beta and always kept my attention on the amount of red health I had. It never felt like a good idea to snap a character out and give up a potential kill via a quick reset for a meager amount of health so I could deal with a character on incoming when I already don't have an assist of my own to provide extra/safer pressure. The change is better than nothing but regenerating health was definitely better (though maybe too good).
Did you attempt to snap out assists rather than the point? I was thinking about it while watching the Salty updates, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad trade snapping out the assist to get Lockout+Regen for one bar. Solo meter doesn't have much utility outside of combos anyway, so maybe this can actually end up a good use for meter.

Other situations that would promote snapping the point and potentially getting back 1/3 of your full health (2/3 of half a bar) include snapping a dead character to pick the incoming character (though that's still not super easy, you can't always prevent them from kneefalling), snapping at the end of a midscreen happy birthday instead of doing a super, and there's still always landing a Double Snap which now has the added benefit of health regen. Most of those situations are of course going be very specific when you can do it, and will rely on your opponent fucking up hardcore most of the time, but still.
 
Problem with snapping assists is that you "whiff" a punishable move with a superflash
I don't think that goes well too often?

Mildly related: if solo heal on snapback sticks, it shouldn't remove your remaining red life.
Currently if one snaps a point while having 1k red life, one heals 667 and the remaining 333 disappear - imo they should stay as red life (which one can still heal later etc)

Also, nobody still (or I missed it) has answered my question whether Doublesnaps count as hitting the assist (1/3 regen), the point (2/3 life), or both (full red health regain)~
 
IsaVulpes said:
Also, nobody still (or I missed it) has answered my question whether Doublesnaps count as hitting the assist (1/3 regen), the point (2/3 life), or both (full red health regain)~

I believe that Mike said on Salty that double snaps restore 2/3. I remember him saying that it was originally going to be full red health regen but he tried it and didn't like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Peck
Midiman said:
stuff regarding people upset with filia nerfs

I personally am not upset with the changes (throw conversion mmhhhmm), but you do know that he's not disregarding all of filias tools. Beyond the buff to ringlet almost every normal button neutral tool has been nerfed. The hurtbox change that added hurt boxes to her parasite moves fundamentally changed the way filia can anti air and approach. This along with j.hk change is(was) somewhat harsh, and to say that the meterless throw conversion more than makes up for these nerfs is premature imo.

Also if high utility in many situations is criteria for nerfs, the entire cast would receive nerfs to alot of moves under that rule
 
Jumping HK starts up in what, 13f, is her momentum altering air move, retains horizontal momentum, WAS overhead, can crossup from iad and hits crouching (iad jhk is 4+5+13, and done usually from positions where she can be up to +8 (cr.LP)) and deals 28 hitstun. Its not farfetched to say it was great, and it losing overhead properties from IAD (anyone confirm) doesn't really break her gameplan to me. Local resident WingZero has been doing just fine with the changes, so have severin, duckator, worldjem and uzu?

I don't think its harsh so much as you're reliant on that move. The rest of the nerfs are a small drop in the big picture-- none of these changes ruin anti-air on point, nor do they eliminate her ability to be dominant up close. None of these changes keep you from doing crossups and none of these changes ruin Updo into Gregor. They certainly don't get rid of cr.LP into Cr.Lk, a Throw, delayed cr.HK, cr.MK, or IAD j.HK, IAD throw into the previous or block...

I'm personally not seeing how this destroys the character or is HARSH. Midscreen conversion from throw > Ringlet gives you a confirm anywhere. A CONFIRM anywhere leads to you being close to your opponent, where your character aims to be, and generally excels....

Edit: in the long run, this experiment fixes a slew of bugs (Filia jumping normal anchors were all improperly offset), makes j.HK less of an all-in-one tool, and in exchange gives her a buff that makes her a threat fullscreen if she makes a read. That's really not a bad deal overall! The "everyone should probably have tools revised" arguments going to need more ammunition to me, but I'm sure there's stuff I'm overlooking!

Edit2: its also a good idea to ping mikez why j.hk nerfs were a good idea-- that car rude was very informative!!
My reaction is at the idea of being shocked about these changes, not a specific person! You're free to dislike these changes. I'm just curious about implying the changes are factually bad for her.
 
Last edited:
cloudKing211 said:
Also if high utility in many situations is criteria for nerfs, the entire cast would receive nerfs to alot of moves under that rule
Somewhat this.

If this were SF4 or something and a character got nerfed due to too much utility or having moves that were simply "too good" then I would understand.

But SG has a lot of instances where something is really good at what it does and does a lot of things but it's okay because everyone has stuff like it.


Midiman said:
I don't think its harsh so much as you're reliant on that move. The rest of the nerfs are a small drop in the big picture-- none of these changes ruin anti-air on point, nor do they eliminate her ability to be dominant up close. None of these changes keep you from doing crossups and none of these changes ruin Updo into Gregor. They certainly don't get rid of cr.LP into Cr.Lk, a Throw, delayed cr.HK, cr.MK, or IAD j.HK, IAD throw into the previous or block...
I wouldn't nearly say a "small drop in the big picture" and I already said s.HP getting that big fat hurtbox changed quite a lot... also IAD j.LK j.HK being your go to overhead means you lose an air dash to use to reapply pressure... (I don't even care about j.HK losing it's overhead properties, that can stay. The other nerfs are more concerning than that.)
 
Last edited:
cloudKing211 said:
and to say that the meterless throw conversion more than makes up for these nerfs is premature imo.

But it is too soon to say that it isn't a buff too. She effectively went from a high/low character (with the ever present threat of a cross-up) to a high/low/throw character (with the ever present threat of a cross-up).

I also don't think it is her utility per se that needed nerfed. She was just oppressive. This goes way, way back to just how freaking impossible it was to block her once she hit you. She is the character that takes 3/4 a bar, lands a good hit and wins... consistently. She was the one with the cross-up so invisible that she wouldn't even know whether she was crossing-up. She is mostly immune to pushblocks, and there was no good opportunity to punish if you magically block 3x IAD overheads that may or may not cross-up. She had a slew of dumb shit. We all know it. You will adjust, and she'll still land in a good place.
 
Those invisible mix ups are still mostly there which is the thing. She's easier to keep out but once she gets the vortex up and running, it's still same old same old.
 
cloudKing211 said:
The hurtbox change that added hurt boxes to her parasite moves fundamentally changed the way filia can anti air and approach.

Oh so this is why I keep trading when I try to anti air with fukua now????
 
ashxu said:
Those invisible mix ups are still mostly there which is the thing. She's easier to keep out but once she gets the vortex up and running, it's still same old same old.

Yes, they are still largely there... hopefully in a less annoying format. But that they are still there, plus the receiving a throw conversion as compensation are exactly why many of us think that she received a net buff.
 
It still has like all its utility still. It only lost overhead forcing you to use your airdash for iad jlk for her fastest overhead. Iirc correctly, that was the target. No other character had this available, it was powerful since on block getting another crossup or free mixup when he read you overhead instead of guarding low and didnt throw tech assuming grab.

You can probably look up Mike detailing this change in an old post if you search cause he went in depth about it.
 
dekillsage said:
lmao if you think Filia is annoying wait until more people play Eliza.
That requires more people playing Skullgirls tho
 
  • Like
Reactions: erkicman
Mr. X said:
That requires more people playing Skullgirls tho

Eh not really. The best player is already playing her so people will see.
 
ashxu said:
But SG has a lot of instances where something is really good at what it does and does a lot of things but it's okay because everyone has stuff like
...examples?
ashxu said:
also IAD j.LK j.HK being your go to overhead means you lose an air dash to use to reapply pressure...
You're still able to do Hairball as aa frametrap, do IAD j.MP or HP Hairball instead, or just land and attempt to block. You're risking quite a bit going for that mixup with the reward being Movie Star damage
 
Zidiane said:
Did you attempt to snap out assists rather than the point? I was thinking about it while watching the Salty updates, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad trade snapping out the assist to get Lockout+Regen for one bar. Solo meter doesn't have much utility outside of combos anyway, so maybe this can actually end up a good use for meter.
Like IsaVulpes said, it's too risky (unless you're Fortune and happen to hit her head with the snapback). Most assists are going to be too close to the opponent and doing a snap that close is just asking to be punished. For things like Brass Knuckle it might (might) be another story.

This change is hilarious for headless Fortune, though.
 
dekillsage said:
Eh not really. The best player is already playing her so people will see.


Ive been getting eliza'd since the dumb hoe came out.

REALLY wasnt happy playing against her before she had hurtboxes. Now its slightly less oppressive, but still jank as.

But the two au players that were using her have basically quit sg. And ill bite, who is this best sg player? You?

No probably not, you dont like airdashers, so that leaves fox, duck or woofly. Probably fox, he likes them airdashers and elizas hp dp probably keeps your fukua fireball cheese in check.
 
Yeah I was talking about Sonic, and because of how much we tend to play on stream it'll be easier for people to watch more Eliza. Woofly is also very good from what I've seen, I wish EU would stream more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SonicFox, erkicman, Dime and 5 others
dekillsage said:
Yeah I was talking about Sonic, and because of how much we tend to play on stream it'll be easier for people to watch more Eliza. Woofly is also very good from what I've seen, I wish EU would stream more.
btw thanks for streaming regularly sage, It's great to be able to watch you guys play
 
  • Like
Reactions: SonicFox, gllt, IsaVulpes and 6 others
KhaosMuffins said:
It's too risky. Most assists are going to be too close to the opponent and doing a snap that close is just asking to be punished. For things like Brass Knuckle it might (might) be another story.
I mean, yeah, those were the kinds of assists I was thinking, ones meant to go full screen. Didn't think about Fortune head, that's kinda funny.
 
dekillsage said:
Yeah I was talking about Sonic, and because of how much we tend to play on stream it'll be easier for people to watch more Eliza. Woofly is also very good from what I've seen, I wish EU would stream more.
It's awesome that you guys stream so much, and we've been pretty lazy about it in EU. On the bright side, Woofly might start streaming more and if I can stream crappy 480p without any slowdown I might try to get into the habit of doing it myself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Izzmo, gllt and dekillsage
Spencer said:
Yes, they are still largely there... hopefully in a less annoying format. But that they are still there, plus the receiving a throw conversion as compensation are exactly why many of us think that she received a net buff.
I'm surprised people think Ringlet changes make up for everything she lost
 
CaioLugon said:
Is it ok that parasoul's lv3 does more on block than on hit against chairless beowulf?


Tested it on a bunch of other multihit stuff like max-height air drill and Argus, seems like Parasoul's LVL3 is the only thing where blocking is worse than taking the hit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muro and Midiman
I think we should keep that. Cuz that's what you get for giving up that special chair in your life.
 
Midiman said:
On the subject of Filia things, Thanks worldjem

Can we have her old air anchor point back?

Also, 2 frames is pretty tight to be able to punish sekhmet. I don't like Arakune's or Litchi's "it's your turn to block now regardless of what you do!" I don't like it now. Although sekh is still a lot more manageable than those 2's "can't move" modes.
 
At least Arakune gives up a lot at neutral before curse to get to do that during curse.
 
I'd be all for making Sekmet j.M or s.H more negative but I'd like for s.L to be safe.
 
How about keeping j.M at -9 and s.H -10 or -11? Considering how ridiculously negative the lighter normals are and how much startup everything she has has, she's pretty much forced to get to one of those to have a chance to survive. If both j.M and s.H get nerfed I think she'll lose too much of her neutral usefulness.
Edit: She's already limited to start with a low or a reactable high on the ground or to go with only highs while jumping. If you block a hit, if she's on the ground she's in trouble, as it's very hard to frametrap a Butcher's Blade into Axe and if she's in the air she still has a chance to jump out of j.M but that's pretty much it.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, I'm not super content with how sekhmet works atm. The only real application it has is for converting into combos and a few resets. Sekhmet is almost always a complete waste to try to use in neutral due to having no actual mixup other than L > H on the ground. You can avoid pretty much any threat sekhmet can muster by just being in the air and letting it waste meter as it is forced to get back to Eliza.

Maybe allow her to do an actual mixup of some sort by giving her a low outside of only being a chain starter? Like maybe have c.HP/HK be a low with the same animation as her s.LP/LK, but maybe a tiny bit slower and act like val's bypass in the sense that it passes through them if it connects and stops in front of them if it doesn't, and maybe sort of hit upward like the axe. In exchange, make this attack and j.MP and s.HP be significantly more punishable on block. This way its more of an actual gamble to try to use instead of "hold back if sekhmet was used on you on block and wait for free punish/ hold upback every other time"

This would obviously be a net buff since axe is already punishable on block and it gives her more options, but I do feel like sekhmet is lacking a little something.

Overall most people will probably disagree with this since hating Eliza is the new trend and she honestly doesn't need it, but Val didn't need half the stuff she got and I feel like this would make her a little more complete.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KhaosMuffins, alexpi and Ryin
I think that's something of an overstatement.

The meter loss isn't significant (or doesn't have to be), and negative with super armor is hardly the same as negative without it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back