I think this would be a really good change because yeah it does not feel good to get clipped after dodging certain moves 'cause you're in neutral fly to punish and WHAM your foot is out and ouch.One bit of QoL i would like to see that hasnt been mentioned here yet is the consistency of her flight hurtboxes, Her feet dip down depending on the direction you fly and can lead to her getting clipped at max height for some directions but not others by things such as L-luger, lenny, and Marie's beams. I'd really like for her to have one static hurtbox for flight
I'm gonna miss jLP A2A (happy she keeps the faster overhead) but I think this really is the best of both worlds and pw got to keep most of the good stuff I liked so that's great. My only problem really was that it was thought that Painwheel was "overall nerfed" was not a sentence I was willing to accept but now I don't think anybody would say that.
This is a GREAT idea- I just ask if we can archive current endless beta as a launch option ie ireallyfearchange so people can still play/lab pre-Annie sg thanks I still load it up to this day.
Can't you just use that trick triv and nope had a while back to play older versions?
This is a really good point; Robo Fortune should probably not have this if Marie lost it, it basically enables assist calls at heights they probably shouldn't be allowed. And if you want to look at that and go "but Fortune Fiber + assist!!!!" then sure, that can probably go too. Calling assists at heights your opponent cannot see the assist is pretty corny, and SG was designed from the ground up to try and prevent that as much as possible.
The calls for fortune nerfs are coming from inside the house.
For the record I agree with you; I just think Robo should lose hers, and if Fiber + assist has to be a casualty of that than it's kind of whatever. Robo j.hk + assist exists in the same grey area where you call the assist while grounded or in jump frames, and then instantly launch yourself into the air making the fact you called it while grounded basically meaningless. Maybe Fortune and Robo are going to be unchanged in this regard, but I would like some sort of consistency going forward for characters that can effectively cheese the "no assist calls at SJ height rule". Maybe the solution is giving Marie j.mk + assist back, but to me, it makes more sense to look at the other two worst offenders of this, and those are Fortune Fiber + assist and Robo j.hk + assist.The calls for fortune nerfs are coming from inside the house.
Fiber already puts fortune in a super jump state so she's only calling assist when she's on the ground already, I don't think it's the same at all.
I'm also not sure how you would change fiber+assist without it feeling awful anyway. If it was you can't do assist+fiber in the same input you would just do 62(assist)3HK for the same result but harder execution, or you make it so fortune can't fiber at all when an assist is coming on screen which would be horrendous.
I don't think this meaningfully moves the needle in terms of her strength, it is very rare for her to make it to Starving with her current drain and hunger mechanics imo.
Cloud hasn't communicated this anywhere visible to me.
I don't expect we'll ever touch it again, sorry. You can achieve this already though by following these steps:
I see, I'm fine with the way marie and robo call assists at super jump height personally, but I do understand the perspective that they shouldn't be allowed to do that. I wasn't under the impression that when people talked about robo doing jHK+assist they had a problem with her doing it from the ground, I thought the problematic sequence was viewed to be 7/8/9HK L beam+assist at the top of the screen to create a wall and cover her landing or create an ambiguous left/right as she runs away. I guess it goes without saying since I'm fine with the more egregious cases but even if robo jHK+assist got removed I think she should still be allowed to do it starting from the ground.For the record I agree with you; I just think Robo should lose hers, and if Fiber + assist has to be a casualty of that than it's kind of whatever. Robo j.hk + assist exists in the same grey area where you call the assist while grounded or in jump frames, and then instantly launch yourself into the air making the fact you called it while grounded basically meaningless.
just piggybacking on this post, any move that launches in general needs a higher bounce for overstuffed combos to work on heavies. 6HP, jHP, bobble, salt grinder all need to launch higher. i still think getting the overstuffed launch back couldnt hurt, at least during combos. i also dont agree with the ravenous 2mp change as it already felt different from the previous range change but i'll play with it more to see how i feel. the animation not matching the hitboxes is going to mess with me a lot but that's a problem umby already has with air throw and now jmp so i can't say i'm not used to it. someone pointed it out earlier but the ravenous sns change is messing up some combos. i think the higher they are in the air the farther away umbrella goes because she dismounts close to where they were in the air instead of the fixed distance previously. If ravenous slide just hit like it used to but still had the faster dismount on block it would feel fine.I think the most noticeable buttons that needs to be adjusted for OS Umbrella are jHP and fHP (lvl2), to some extent the bubble pop as well.
Also, would be super helpful if Salt Grind have some startup reduced to help her routes against mediums as well.
On Overstuffed, Umbrella needs to preserve the OTG to increase her damage, some of her routes are very tricky on mediums as well, so the QoL is welcome against them.
Anyway, I really want to suggest to you to consider giving the Rush bounce back, she got both OS damage reduced and Rush removed, that hurt way too much the Overstuffed gameplan.
is there any update on this? being lamed out into a mode i get lamed out harder in is very unfun
I know the issue of "1 grind salt grinder at the tip of rav" but we physically can't do that anymore. i think having rush be the only eating move that wont put you completely in satiated is the ideal way to go as you can only combo into it once without meter, and it gives her an ideal ravenous combo and/or reset point. it's also basically useless at this point as a combo tool since you can use both tongue twister and salt grinder which do way more damage. maybe even make hunger drain faster every time you refill in ravenous so it still feels like a danger mode but not one you're not allowed to play in even if you're right. i dont think a ravenous game plan is something to be scared of for the longevity of the game, just like an overstuffed gameplan isnt. different people are going to lean towards one or another and finding the different gameplans to come out of that is really cool! i feel like encouraging different state play can only be healthy for the character. the 2mp change would also make Way more sense if this change was implemented as gutting the pre hit of a character that has to hit you or die feels like the wrong way to go about the mode.The management is engaged with a different, simpler, more streamlined way after the rework which is a pretty big part of how it all fits together. One of the goals of this is to also make Umbrella a bit easier to wrap your head around and play. With your proposed changes, we're back to Salt Grinder, grind 1 pip, SQRT, then fall back into Ravenous, and right back where we started.
Is there any plan to do at least the hld on throw? i've read a LOT of fukua player posts and have talked to a lot of fukua players that at least want one of their tools changed. i personally think health drain on shadows isn't needed and big band players should try not calling big band like they're going to die in 3 seconds if they don't. l shadow isn't doing anything to h bomber or full screen beam and even assists it does work on. you can hit the shadow. like i think gaining health back on hit is the right direction? but with the other insane things in the game (i.e. item drop literally existing) im quite unsure why fukua can't have an item drop you can actually interact with that is on the screen that you can see without losing health.I sense a lot of hesitancy to buff Fukua or make her anything other than what she is now, but I don't think she's particularly amazing at the moment. Characters that get up in your face, hit you with a strong pre-hit mix up, then two touch you are more scary than Fukua to me at least, even though her layered resets and pressure are very powerful.
WHAT THE HELL THIS IS HUGE THANK YOUI don't expect we'll ever touch it again, sorry. You can achieve this already though by following these steps:
- Delete contents of endless beta install folder.
- Copy the entire contents of your regular Skullgirls install folder into that.
- Create a file called "steam_appid.txt" in the root folder of the new endless beta install folder.
- Paste the app ID of Skullgirls Endless Beta [208610] (or any other game that is not Skullgirls) in that file and save it.
- Launch Skullgirls Endless Beta through Steam using -beta launch option.
- Launch regular Skullgirls.
- You now have two versions open at the same time, one using the ID from Endless Beta and one that uses the regular ID.
The steam_appid.txt file works for every game on Steam btw, not just Skullgirls.
I'm very strongly in favor of bringing it back as well. Any version of timed inputs would work the same and if you mashed, it just made your jlps come out more consistently so I don't understand how that change could negatively affect any consistent method to do the string at all.
This never worked correctly FWIW, if you just tap pushblock a few times it was very easy to get it, since you can always pushblock on the frame that a hit makes contact even when it tried to lock out PB. If you PB her early as possible PBGC punish is still impossible though because of how locked up by hitpause you are, and she won't slide backwards either, so unless I'm missing something I don't recall what the anti PB change was supposed to do originally actually.
Yeah that's how it was implemented before. Once you use a "main healing move", it wipes the stored health drain damage so you can't get any more of it.- First I have a question, is it intended that if you use the armored command grab or taunt that her recoverable red life from shadows is capped? You can no longer recover previous shadow life lost with darts, or anything else once you have used one of these so I just wanted to make sure that was intended.
She is more fun to play but I also think she is more fun (less frustrating) to play against too which is also a goal. I expected that in the long run not being able to revert back to Satiated from Overstuffed whenever you want would actually end up being more of a nerf than a buff, since slower normals is annoying up close in a scramble. The idea is that if you go into Overstuffed for a combo opportunity, you have to play a little bit of neutral in Overstuffed too before you can revert back to Satiated and eat again, so it's more of a commitment. If that ends up just being better for her I could see that being adjusted.- If one of the questions is whether or not she's better than retail IMO she is better. More importantly she is more fun. Being able to stay in OS mode is pretty over powered though. Prior to that change I had to accept that set ups made me lose the mode, but now I just set up and then max damage route every time into the same set up again.
It won't be L Bubble, it will be ice cream taunt if anything. I'll see if I have time to integrate it, but don't expect it to be as fast and simple to fire off like old L Bubble of course.
Yeah, I'll do something like that.someone pointed it out earlier but the ravenous sns change is messing up some combos. i think the higher they are in the air the farther away umbrella goes because she dismounts close to where they were in the air instead of the fixed distance previously. If ravenous slide just hit like it used to but still had the faster dismount on block it would feel fine.
We did try that once and it was armageddon levels of contention trying to get everyone on the same page from what I recall, even some Fukua players said it should be reverted.
Just to be clear on something, right stick assists are not extra buttons. Even when you are using them, the game is still a six button game. Right stick assists just input regular assist inputs like LP + MK, etc, and they are no different from macros - they are more restrictive actually since they cannot be rebound. If you hold right stick up for example, you cannot press LP because that button is held down. All assist inputs interact this way by preventing your point character from doing something (or forcing them to do something) as if that button is locked out. Adding dedicated assist buttons changes this, and your six attack button state (holding SOID or Fukua shadows etc) never conflicts with assist buttons.
The total lockout before you can call another M Egret right now is 293F. In retail, the lockout between M Egret is 287F. A difference in 6F for the distance he covers and for the length he lasts feels like a buff to me personally? If you wish to revert it, that is fine, but I don't think it will meaningfully let you call him any faster than before.
just to be clear i understand how RS works in this case, its just that the argument i was given was "we dont want to give an advantage to a controller for more buttons" which that goes against by adding extra macro options, yes they are the same macro system but still adding an advantage to controllers with access to that. I understand you dont plan to change this but im still gonna continue to make myself heard and known on this in general because in all honesty I have still yet to get a solid reason as to why having the OPTION would be detrimentalJust to be clear on something, right stick assists are not extra buttons. Even when you are using them, the game is still a six button game. Right stick assists just input regular assist inputs like LP + MK, etc, and they are no different from macros - they are more restrictive actually since they cannot be rebound. If you hold right stick up for example, you cannot press LP because that button is held down. All assist inputs interact this way by preventing your point character from doing something (or forcing them to do something) as if that button is locked out. Adding dedicated assist buttons changes this, and your six attack button state (holding SOID or Fukua shadows etc) never conflicts with assist buttons.
If right stick used dedicated assist call buttons, then SG would be an 8 button game and adding dedicated assist buttons that do what right stick assists do would be fine, because people would wire the right stick pad up/down to their stick anyway.
To the point though: I have no intentions on adjusting assist call macros, adding extra buttons, or how right stick assists work at this time.
Changing how many macros exist on your controller does not impact what is possible within the current rules of the game. 50 macros on your controller that all interact with the default six buttons I believe is still tournament legal under EVO rules for example, and fine. Separating assist calls to not interact with those six buttons for gameplay is where things start to diverge, certain techniques will only be possible if you are using dedicated assist call buttons. I believe it's intended and designed so that if you have the minimum number of buttons required to play Skullgirls (6), then you should theoretically be able to perform everything in the game.just to be clear i understand how RS works in this case, its just that the argument i was given was "we dont want to give an advantage to a controller for more buttons" which that goes against by adding extra macro options, yes they are the same macro system but still adding an advantage to controllers with access to that. I understand you dont plan to change this but im still gonna continue to make myself heard and known on this in general because in all honesty I have still yet to get a solid reason as to why having the OPTION would be detrimental
i wasnt intending this to be included in this beta cycle by any means, I just wanted to put it out there again while people are actively discussing the game and its health. I'm also not saying to change how the game works but have the option to sacrifice things like same frame assist+special in exchange for not having to worry about the input overlap. by no means should the game no longer be playable on 6 buttons after that any more so than it is less playable now without macros or RS optionsChanging how many macros exist on your controller does not impact what is possible within the current rules of the game. 50 macros on your controller that all interact with the default six buttons I believe is still tournament legal under EVO rules for example, and fine. Separating assist calls to not interact with those six buttons for gameplay is where things start to diverge, certain techniques will only be possible if you are using dedicated assist call buttons. I believe it's intended and designed so that if you have the minimum number of buttons required to play Skullgirls (6), then you should theoretically be able to perform everything in the game.
I don't think it would be "detrimental" fwiw! It's just not in the cards right now. Since I have less than 7 days to try and finalize this patch for consoles this will also be the last time I speak to it, I have to focus on other things that are in scope - my apologies.
nvm my files are too big im just gonna make a video
Perhaps it was just placebo. It definitely feels less effective. However I also didn't have a problem with the old one at all. Thought it worked fine vs any zoner she was up against. I still would prefer the old one but if other Parasouls like the new version, I wouldn't complain about keeping it as is.The total lockout before you can call another M Egret right now is 293F. In retail, the lockout between M Egret is 287F. A difference in 6F for the distance he covers and for the length he lasts feels like a buff to me personally? If you wish to revert it, that is fine, but I don't think it will meaningfully let you call him any faster than before.
If you pushblock very soon after the first hit of explosion, within about 15 frames generally I think it's possible to punish robo. Bella seems to be the most capable with PBGC flick or 360 since when the PBGC window happens the explosion is still active but a lot of characters are able to punish with a super still. I know that was technically possible before but between this and the countdown above robo's head it's a lot more consistent.