The Unofficial Official Beta Discussion Thread

[Triviality]

Can we add the console VOIP to qm or lobbies on pc [as an option]

 

[Liam]

This balance patch is live (3.7.10).

The full update notes will be posted on Skullheart later today. For now, the raw gameplay changes can be found here:

5/28/2024 (3.7.10) Balance Patch Update Notes

3.7.10 Gameplay Changes MISC / SYSTEM / ALL Adjusted stage lighting to fix a bug where characters had defects on the bottom of their rendered art. Fixed a bug where performing a Stunt Double set to a punch normal could be cancelled on landing with a well timed dash. Starting a combo against an o...

docs.google.com

 

[WarpedEcho]

Happy post CB post! A lot of the general changes are great, and the one that catches my eye the most is max undizzy burst not getting rid of drama, alongside max undizzy scaling. These should be great for the meta as bursting from the throw tech/burst mixups at max undizzy won't be as outrageously punishing.

From testing I'll say a lot of pw's changes feel great. Grounded confirms are a lot more consistent now, and the armor fix does actually feel like it helps. Install changes feel fair for the utility it has as a DHC, although I do wish that it had something else instead of extended time on point activation. 5mp feels like a real button now and AAs after armoring much more consistently. +2% -> +1% meter on buers is a sound decision, but I'd like to see that towards stinger nails more than buers so as to differentiate her routing options (damage vs meter gain.) This would also reward her for throwing them in neutral more, considering they are a 40(+)f fireball I think they deserve a little more reward.

I'm glad that Caio touched on the shadow nerf to 2lp, I'd like to touch on shadow nerfs to m & h nails for conversions. When she lost frames on the fly cancel from stingers, she also lost conversion timing on AA hnail. There's a decent bit of range where the nail will hit but you can't convert it like you used too since it takes longer to fly to the opponent. Same deal with m nail. I figured just a few more frames of hitsun would fix that (or give back old stinger cancel )

The only other QoL changes I could think of would be a slightly extended DHC window for deathcrawl. Also sage is right, give her sentinel chip damage on her blade normals. Unironically this would be sick for her pressure routing with her multihits, giving less reason to fastfall/chain/fc out of them early all the time. This would give her a richer pressure game that cares more than going for mix or pb bait comparatively to the rest of the game's roster (other than fortune 5mp )

Eliza changes feel great, I feel more justified in calling throne, and being able to duck robo high beams is a godsend for the matchup. Boat having projectile armor a few frames faster is awesome too.

Peacock and Fortune's changes feel really fair. They both still really strong, just not leagues above everyone else.

 

[Nezo]

 

[Liam]

<img>

Cool art! But this is a gameplay thread for discussing beta/gameplay updates. This post is probably better off in one of the fan art threads in Skullheart?



Also Version 3.9.99, an experimental networking update, is available for OPT IN testing in the "Community Debugging" branch. Instructions on how to access that branch, and the changes in it, are in this document. Please read the document to access to branch. If you have any questions, feel free to let me know.

GOOGLE DOCUMENT LINK

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

As a friendly reminder, please don't shitpost in the beta thread.

 

[Liam]

We're working on a hotfix for Annie on PS4 which has her silent, and we're also working on the online improvements for Steam. We'll end up doing a hotfix on all platforms to get a few more bug fixes out and such as a result of that, but it will be very small.

One balance thing that will probably adjusted in this patch is Black Dahlia's teleport, just FYI. Currently she can loop H Doily > H Teleport and it's very difficult for slow characters to get in on her before she can teleport again, and I just want to get ahead of that so we don't have to watch painful time outs via running away.

 

[tarrasq]

After a couple weeks to try it and solidify my thoughts, really not liking the Super Gold Burst mechanic. I think it's a nice idea theoretically, making the max UD situation less punishing, but in execution it results in incentivizing BB/airthrow loops at max UD even further along with forcing modifications to offense in general that both feel bad and are less optimal than pre-super gold burst gameplans. The new version where burst can be punished at all is a marked improvement over the previous, unpunishable version that made mashing>safe dhc even more godlike than it is in sg, but I dont think taking even 100 undizzy off per HCH is going to take you below the max undizzy threshold, as the super gold burst typically happens well past 300-350 undizzy. If the mechanic is absolutely here to stay, then I think punishing a super gold burst should be more rewarding. Not as rewarding as a regular blue burst (the most rewarding type of hit in the game) but moreso than it is now. I think the massive disparity between the reward from the two types of burst is a big part of why SGB feels so much worse, and so I think reducing that disparity would be a good compromise. Rather than reducing either 100% or 0% of the undizzy, perhaps Super Gold Burst could reduce it by 50-75%? At the typical level of UD youd see a SGB at (350ish) this would cut you down to about 175. Then, your CH punish takes off another chunk, ideally 100, resulting in a burst bait punish starting with 75 undizzy. So still rewarding, but less so than a blue burst bait. Sage had another idea I thought was interesting where the super gold burst would reset you to 240 undizzy before the counterhit, generally resulting in 140UD gold burst bait punishes. Either way, I think this mechanic should change from the way it is now.


tl;dr: Super Gold Burst feels pretty bad. You should die for getting burst baited in skullgirls. If it has to stay, I think it would be healthy to make it more rewarding by having the burst itself reduce undizzy like a blue burst, just maybe not by 100% like a blue burst.

Spoiler: tangential

With the new visibility of negative undizzy after counterhits, I think it would be interesting to experiment with the idea of negative undizzy using the same drain-over-time mechanics that positive undizzy does rather than just instantly disappearing.

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

Any chance we could have jitter display next to the ping number when "-showping" is enabled?

 

[Liam]

A new build is up on the Steam communitydebugging beta branch, where the Steam networking changes were before.

The password to access to the build is HotfixTesting.

We're preparing a hotfix to fix an issue where Annie is silent on PS4, and I'm taking this opportunity to look at a few bugs and adjust one more thing related to balance for Black Dahlia as I've spoken to earlier. My attention is focused on something else right now so I don't have time to look at any other changes right now.

Here are the changes in this update...

---

Black Dahlia

Goals:

• 1) Avoid removing or adjusting her current setups when possible. This means that the types of things that can be changed about doily and teleport are actually very slim. Slight changes to anything frame data or timing wise will break numerous set ups.
• 2) Create a reasonable gap of time between possible teleports so that very slow characters have a brief window to fight her without her teleporting behind them again and running away until the timer reaches zero.
• 3) Make it possible to have a legitimate chance at punishing teleport (or interrupting the startup) using character specific tools if she teleports very far away from you for an escape, and you have a hard read and have baited it out.

Changes:

• Tea Slip (QCB + K when doily is placed) (AKA Teleport)
  • Invincibility now starts 8F later. Invincibility reverts back to the old version when used while the opponent is bursting, to maintain burst bait setups.
  • Now has a maximum teleport distance of one full screen away, instead of two. In situations that are unrelated to running away from the opponent, this improves her ability to convert off various cross up + attack style attacks which can be useful, so there you go...
  • Has extra recovery depending on the distance she teleports. Anywhere from 0 to 11 extra frames of recovery can be added. These added recovery frames are removed if the opponent is in hitstun or enters it, to keep set ups and conversions the same as before.
  • After teleporting to a doily, Black Dahlia has a 5 second cooldown before she can throw another one. Feathers from her cape will appear at the teleport location, and when the feathers have all vanished, the cooldown is lifted. While the feathers are there as a reference, you'll have to get used to the cooldown if they go offscreen. While I'm "looking into" other possible visual indicators for this, I have no promises I find anything better that doesn't look jank as heck.

Beowulf & Cerebella

• 360 jump protection now only kicks in if you have enough meter to perform a 360 type move. For Cerebella, she must have 1 meter, and for Beowulf, he must have 3. Fukua already had this behaviour, and Umbrella doesn't have 360 jump protection at all.

Beowulf

• Fixed a bug where performing a DHC while The Hurting was being recalled and trying to reach Beowulf could result in his chair related assist moves like (H Hurting Hurl) not working correctly.

Annie

• Makes sound on PS4, whoops, though obviously we can't test that yet here!

---

(Version number 3.7.613)

 

[tossle]

I like and agree with the teleport changes but I do find it a little off-putting to still be stuck in the doily lockout if I hit my opponent post raw teleport. I understand the intention is to make it so constantly teleporting doesn't dominate incontestably by being unreachable in some matchups/situations, but it seems a little harsh to deny dahlia in the scenario she engages and gets the hit

I do like the feather visuals, pretty neat

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

I understand that balance changes for other characters are more or less finalized, but the Dahlia teleport nerf to make sure run away/zoning playstyles are not too good makes me think there needs to be one final change to Robo. I really feel she got off easy compared to the other characters on the upper end of the cast. I think TK Beam needs to be addressed in some fashion, as it is very oppressive and has very little real counterplay. The H Beam change was huge, and it's nice you can duck it, but that's not where Robo is getting a lot of her free damage and chip, that's all coming from an instant beam with instant recovery that can be done off the ground without a lot of effort. My suggestion would be making a minimum height requirement for beam that's higher then where she can currently perform the action. I just would really hate for the biggest culprit of the "up up and away meta", which is Robo, to be able to run a sort of risk free zoning gameplan that seems like is being normalized for everyone else.

Additionally, Marie lost assist calls at super jump mk height, I think it's only fair that Robo also loses the ability to do it at j.hk height. Perhaps this is not an apples to apples comparison, but I think consistency is important.

I know we are past the point for balance changes, but please consider it! The bigger picture didn't really form in my head until I started thinking about the changes to Dahlia's run away ability.

edit: disregard, im a scrub :)

 

[Liam]

I know we are past the point for balance changes, but

We are not in an active balance patch cycle right now and no additional balance changes are being made at this time. I'm focusing on a very specific and ugly "run out the clock" strategy to prevent some specific characters from needing to put down the controller or wait 99s in some very unfortunate situations, and that's it.

 

[Calexe]

Changes:

• Tea Slip (QCB + K when doily is placed) (AKA Teleport)
  • Invincibility now starts 8F later. Invincibility reverts back to the old version when used while the opponent is bursting, to maintain burst bait setups.
  • Now has a maximum teleport distance of one full screen away, instead of two. In situations that are unrelated to running away from the opponent, this improves her ability to convert off various cross up + attack style attacks which can be useful, so there you go...
  • Has extra recovery depending on the distance she teleports. Anywhere from 0 to 11 extra frames of recovery can be added. These added recovery frames are removed if the opponent is in hitstun or enters it, to keep set ups and conversions the same as before.
  • After teleporting to a doily, Black Dahlia has a 5 second cooldown before she can throw another one. Feathers from her cape will appear at the teleport location, and when the feathers have all vanished, the cooldown is lifted. While the feathers are there as a reference, you'll have to get used to the cooldown if they go offscreen. While I'm "looking into" other possible visual indicators for this, I have no promises I find anything better that doesn't look jank as heck.

Super weird to see Dahlia losing a neutral and defensive tool to make up for Cerebella MU? I'll not deny Bella really has a hard time against Dahlia, especially if Dahlia is in the life advantage, but this is straight nerfing to both Doily and Teleport instead of adjustments. One of her corner setup is completely gone. The basic one (c[HP] > Doily > H Shot > Teleport) seems the same, even to loop, but the 8 frames nerf changes way too much stuff here.
I do respect the idea of "every character should be able to punish teleport if they have the right read" but the changes just stacked 3 nerfs at once, and I'm more inclined to recovery change instead the startup one.
Also, Dahlia uses doily throw to reduce recovery of her charged normals and in barrel combos, so, the cooldown change here affects her routes, specially routes with s[HP] on first string (meaning HCH combos requires Dahlia to dhc or tag even earlier), and I don't think this is intended at all. My suggestion is applying the cooldown only to Teleport, and making the Doily having a "dark colors", just like Beowulf chair.
And the cooldown of flat 5 seconds is just too high, Dahlia's neutral already involves a lot of commitment, having 5 seconds of cooldown makes a bad teleport results in death, for sure. I think variable cooldown between 1, 2 and 5 seconds based on distance can be better for this balance.

I expected to see at least one considerable buff in compensation, something like doily taking less time to hit the ground or Dahlia being able to cancel shots into teleport. These nerfs might be at right direction, but for sure it's super weird to see changes after a big balance patch and only nerfs, not even compensations.

Spoiler: Corner Setup

Spoiler: Frame Kill

 

[Liam]

I think things will be okay without the invincibility changes on start up yeah, so I'll tweak that and put that back to retail values. The cooldown and recovery is the main thing which needs to stay.

and I don't think this is intended at all.

It's not the point of the changes obviously but it is "expected", and thus intended, yes. I'm aware of the cascading implications of the changes and they are a necessary evil - this stuff happens all the time - Peacock lost a bunch of small things like this in her nerfs for example, and I am okay with that.

and making the Doily having a "dark colors", just like Beowulf chair.

Part of the point is to stop her from throwing another doily down for later without risk immediately after teleporting when she's too far to be punished, even if she can't teleport to it yet.

I expected to see at least one considerable buff in compensation

We're not doing additional balance changes right now, there just isn't time in my/our schedule at the moment. I know that's frustrating, but I'm just being transparent about it.

 

[SeaJay]

Been loving the blue undizzy indicator lately.

I reckon Dahlia should be able to bypass the cooldown on doily throw as long as the opponent's point character is in hitstun. If she's hitting the opponent she isn't running away.

 

[LalitoTV]

Will peacock's M bang sprites be updated sometime?
The current sprites are extremely misleading and make it hard to grasp just how much range mbang actually has now.

I'd love to see a visual update.

 

[Liam]

Been loving the blue undizzy indicator lately.

I reckon Dahlia should be able to bypass the cooldown on doily throw as long as the opponent's point character is in hitstun. If she's hitting the opponent she isn't running away.

This would happen when you get hit by a projectile, which is still used when running away, so I elected not to do that.

Will peacock's M bang sprites be updated sometime?
The current sprites are extremely misleading and make it hard to grasp just how much range mbang actually has now.

I'd love to see a visual update.

No, sorry. There's other examples of hitboxes being shorter than the art that are bigger offenders than M Bang imo.

Also, the patch is live on PS4 and Xbox One as of about an hour ago, changes are done for now.

 

[LalitoTV]

No, sorry. There's other examples of hitboxes being shorter than the art that are bigger offenders than M Bang imo.

True, but to be fair M bang would be way easier to update as the actual animation would go unchanged, its just the sword graphics that would need to be updated. But, well, its understandable, given how you are busy with other more important things, i was just hoping that, maybe in two years from now, when all dlc is done, maybe, just maybe, we could see an update. Sometime... But like i said, understandable.

Pity U_U

 

[Chrono_Tata]

True, but to be fair M bang would be way easier to update as the actual animation would go unchanged, its just the sword graphics that would need to be updated.

M Bang has like 5 different sword animations that would need to be updated, so it's really not that trivial.

 

[LalitoTV]

M Bang has like 5 different sword animations that would need to be updated, so it's really not that trivial.

Sure, there are 5 animations, each consisting of 2 or 3 frames, but i don't think there would even be a need to redraw them!
Just resizing them a tiny bit could work i think, as these are not "characters" per se, they don't really look that off when slightly squashed.

I understand that this is still too much to ask, though, given how the team is busy with more important stuff, this was just a small proposition/idea.