Beowulf Thread: Retiring from Retirement

[WayForger]

For the Hunting Sprint visual:

Spoiler

This puts Beowulf very close to the ground. Although Gama has his katana in hand I think the same sort of look but with his arms like Zangrief. @Denizen, I understand that having a charge motion can be tough for some people but would you not rather keep the QCF motion for other moves. Then again, I don't think that L0 wants to give a character an exorbitant amount of special moves. I would be fine with either or when it comes down to it.

With the whole button=distance part of the move I guess it could work. With LK being the longest and HK being the shortest of the three.

For the "The Kidnapping" I think having it be a hit grab would be great. Damage scaling would slowly bring down the amount of drag damage throughout the move itself.

 

[Denizen]

The most frustrating part of this is that we have no confirmation that Beowulf will even have a Command Dash.
Although, I think Lab Zero would be crazy not to give him one. I think we're crafting a very good move set for him.
Also Forge I'm super set on his dash being a QCF motion. I'm fine with him having a charge for any other move, but I won't budge on this. It's all up to Lab Zero though.

Special Move: Moon Vault
This is Beowulf's vault off The Hurting. By dashing into a standing Hurting Beowulf will automatically leap off of it into an arial state, unless the player holds down while dashing which will cause Beowulf to mantle over it, this counts as an attack so he isn't too vulnerable. Once in the air the player has only a moment to decide what to do.
There are a few options for Beowulf while he's airborne.
takes Beowulf out of his Moon Vault and puts him into a normal falling state.
is an overhead slam with both fists that causes ground bounce, this can lead into a OTG combo.
is a huge body slam that leaves both Beowulf and the opponent on the ground, like Big Band's Drop Kick.
is an an air grab of epic proportions, Landing this will treat you to a spectacle.
It works sort of like Cerebella's Grab Bag except that Beowulf is falling in an arc instead of straight down.

 

[WayForger]

Special Move: Moon Vault

Wouldn't this be the same as what I put as the airborne versions of each move in my Hunting Sprint? Couldn't, and shouldn't, the QCF or QCB punches rather be used in fully utilizing The Hurting?
- Grabs the hurting and throws it straight forward. The Hurting can then be picked up again in a homage to Cody.
- Throws the hurting at an arc, when it lands it is set up again.
- Grabs the opponent and sits them down in the Hurting, Beowulf then grabs the opponent and the chair which leads into a Grab Bag like move.

Just a thought.

 

[Denizen]

Wouldn't this be the same as what I put as the airborne versions of each move in my Hunting Sprint? Couldn't, ad shouldn't, the QCF or QCB punches rather be used in fully utilizing The Hurting.

It's not entirely the same, but I have to be honest, I only read your post once and I wasn't paying much attention since I was in the middle of a break between weightlifting and wrestling practice. This is cool though, it means we are thinking similarly and you know what they say, great minds think alike.

I haven't said anything about QCF Punches yet, but I agree that they should be used for direct Hurting Attacks, although if Beowulf doesn't have it with him then that leaves him without an important offensive option.

 

[WayForger]

if Beowulf doesn't have it with him then that leaves him without an important offensive option.

Well he still has his grounded and air normals that he can combo with. The Hurting, much like Cody's knife, Capt. America's Shield, and Vega's equipment, should be an object that can be tossed and picked up. Although it does limit half of his specials, it doesn't mean he is defenseless and it adds a new, unique aspect to his character. In addition, If "Moon Vault" or rather "Bringing the Hurt" (As I would dub it) is put to QCF punches in parallel to "Hunting Sprint" at QCF kicks Beowulf still has a lot of options with regards to his moves and assists (if he has any).

 

[Little Band]

Huh? Whaddya mean I haven't said my idea on this forum yet? Oh, whatever.
*ahem*

Spoiler

So, Beowulf so far (at least to me) seems to have two specific mechanics to him at the moment (possibility of using old mementos from past fights ala Phoenix Wright style is what I see from some of his descriptions, but it's never stated). That is him setting up his chair on the battleground and his unique tagout into the background.
Now both of these have one thing in common, they're stationary. Beowulf seems to be revolving around the idea of needing to stay around one specific area, whether it be around his chair as Beo or near Beo himself when looking for the tag.
Obviously the opponent would try their hardest to keep Beowulf away from where he's supposed to be, but there's a way to prevent that from happening.
That would be if Beowulf had a way to stop the screen from moving. Say he activates the super, and a wrestling bursts out of the ground or falls from the sky. Preventing both of the players from moving the screen for either a limited time or until one is K.O.'d. Like a super version of Squigly's special, except based on lockdown.
With no one leaving, it works best in Beowulf's favor due to the necessity of needing to make sure that the action stays near his belongings is eliminated.
Beowulf would probably have special moves in the ring, if it's considered not enough for a super. Jumping off the ropes, getting a referee to do....something, you get the idea.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I was hoping someone else thought something like that. One of his supers could be throwing down the basic wrestling ring, preventing screen movement and giving Beowulf some rope mobility and momentum. Maybe one of his higher level (or. Highest, level five would be reasonable considering it would throw the fight far into beowulf a corner) could be a cage match, throwing down a cage around the two players smaller than the wrestling ring (slightly) and preventing switch out and assists. Beowulf could climb on the cage for mobility or placing himself to execute a move, as well as bounce off the cage walls for running or charging combos. Bouncing the opponent off the cage and then lining them up for a clothesline, or other equally powerful combos that could easily work with a cage. If Beowulf really is going to be the wrestling character based on charges, grapples, and placement combos, the cage match could easily mean the death of any other character who isn't too careful. Possible name: Wolfs den

 

[Denizen]

In addition, If "Moon Vault" or rather "Bringing the Hurt" (As I would dub it) is put to QCF punches in parallel to "Hunting Sprint" at QCF kicks Beowulf still has a lot of options with regards to his moves and assists (if he has any).

Oh, dude the Moon Vault is just my name for Beowulf's leap off The Hurting. It's not a QCF Punch, in fact it doesn't have any inputs since it's completely automatic.

Also, while I think the idea of a wrestling ring super is cool, I'm avoiding it for now since I have no idea how it's going to canonically work. There's such a thing as too much Hammer Space.

 

[WayForger]

Oh, dude the Moon Vault is just my name for Beowulf's leap off The Hurting. It's not a QCF Punch, in fact it doesn't have any inputs since it's completely automatic.

Oh, alright. So basically what you designed for leap moves was basically just your thoughts on what his sprint would do when encountering a set Hurting.

Basically, we need a move that will set the Hurting. That is where my post about the move, "Setting Up Shop" comes into play.

Also, when we decide that we are finished on either normals, specials, or supers and have no further discussion we should compile all that information into a single post.

 

[WayForger]

I also think that Beowulf's standing grab should be able to combo into other grabs like King.

Spoiler

 

[Denizen]

Basically, we need a move that will set the Hurting. That is where my post about the move, "Setting Up Shop" comes into play.

Yeah I think Take a Seat/Setting Up Shop is perfect.

Here's another idea, what if Beowulf had an off the ground grab? Let's say Beowulf is knocked down to the ground, he's just lying there and the opponent can't do anything because he dropped his combo. The player could grab the enemy directly from that position, making him dangerous to approach when he's down.
I don't know if that's unbalanced or not, it's just a suggestion.

 

[WayForger]

What if Beowulf had an off the ground grab? Let's say Beowulf is knocked down to the ground, he's just lying there and the opponent can't do anything because he dropped his combo. The player could grab the enemy directly from that position, making him dangerous to approach when he's down.
I don't know if that's unbalanced or not, it's just a suggestion.

It would probably be more of a wakeup tackle. A wakeup, on the ground grab seems unbalanced.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

I was hoping someone else thought something like that. One of his supers could be throwing down the basic wrestling ring, preventing screen movement and giving Beowulf some rope mobility and momentum.

If he did have a super that gave him a ring, perhaps the ropes give him more mobility options (executing a "Wolf Dash" into the ropes makes him faster or give crumple knockdowns to some of his moves, can position jumps off the ropes better, any throw into the ropes gives wallbounce regardless if one was used in a combo already). The ring could also give him access to stronger normals using his trophies from past victories (Grendel's arm replacing all HP, Ringside bell for LP, Championship belt for MP, etc)
I'm ignoring how much work the team would need to be done for this stuff, so please do not evaluate this idea based on that.
And if you weren't even thinking about that, well crap, I put myself into the corner of the ring there.

 

[WayForger]

Arm Charge, "Grendelian Hammer" for a level one. Semi-Hooded level 3, "Courage Wolf" buff super or "Ultimate Grapple" for level 3s and the cage match, "Wolves Den" at level 5.

 

[Denizen]

I'm think Buff Super, "Courage Wolf," for level 1. Arm Charge, "Grendelian Hammer" for another level one. Hooded level 3, "Courage Wolf" that is a buff super. Cage match, "Wolves Den" level 5.

You put Courage Wolf twice, unless the lvl1 and lvl2 buff supers are different.

 

[WayForger]

You put Courage Wolf twice, unless the lvl1 and lvl2 buff supers are different.

My mistake. I was trying to think of another level 1 but ended up failing at that endeavor. Here is the proper list:
LVL 1: Grendelian Hammer (Arm Charge)
LVL 3: Courage Wolf (Buff Super)
LVL 5: Wolves Den (Cage Match Super)

 

[Little Band]

My mistake. I was trying to think of another level 1 but ended up failing at that endeavor. Here is the proper list:
LVL 1: Grendelian Hammer (Arm Charge)
LVL 3: Courage Wolf (Buff Super)
LVL 5: Wolves Den (Cage Match Super)

Im thinkin Beowulf should have two level one supers, maybe an air super involving a chair slam, or a series of grabs (think solomon Grundy from injustices B combos) also on the topic of courage wolf, maybe in addition to buffing Beowulf, it would unlock for a limited time a different play style and move set, things more feral and wolf-like (claws and bites instead of punches, vicious grabs and combos, etc) I've noticed there seem to be two groups on this discussion; people wanting the wrestler aspect of Beowulf to shine through, and people wanting a wild beastman combo. Maybe courage wolf could just be a booster, but a special move would flip his hood up and change his style, satisfying both the wrestling fans and the wolf pack fans. Seeing how they already introduced ms. Fortune with basic fighting move changes (really just the supers) and seeing how Eliza sounds like she'll have two fighting a modes, Beowulf could use another fighting style, and wolf hood fits in perfectly

 

[Little Band]

Also I hope beyond all hope that wolves den makes it in, because it would be a really cool super to pull off and I would remind my friends once every round. Hey. Hey. I thought up that. I tonight up the cage idea. That was me guys. They liked it. (The Hurting ensues)

 

[Dr.Sanity]

[EYE TWITCHING INTENSIFIES]

 

[Denizen]

I don't think that Beowulf will have a completely different state where he has the hood on for all of his moves, there are at least 1,300 frames of animation per character and Lab Zero would have to draw twice as many for Beowulf if that were implemented. I still support a "Courage Wolf" Buff Super, I just think it's more realistic that he have a glowing yellow aura instead or some other easy to implement visual effect, like Painwheel's Hatred Install.

I would love it if Beowulf had some reference to The Wulf Pack.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

I would love it if Beowulf had some reference to The Wulf Pack.

THIS GRAB GOES TO MY #1 POLL VOTING FANS, THE WULF PACK!

 

[Zazz]

THIS GRAB GOES TO MY #1 POLL VOTING FANS, THE WULF PACK!

Beowulf needs this as an exchange with Double:
"IT'S MEEEE, BEOWULF! IT WAS MEEEE ALLLL ALONG, BEOWULF!"
"Damn, I cannot believe this . . ."
"YOU ALL BOUGHT IT! YOU ALL BOUGHT IT HOOK, LINE AND SINKER! YOU ALL BOUGHT IT!"

 

[WayForger]

...series of grabs (think solomon Grundy from injustices B combos)... people wanting the wrestler aspect of Beowulf to shine through, and people wanting a wild beastman combo. Maybe courage wolf could just be a booster, but a special move would flip his hood up...

I don't think that Beowulf will have a completely different state where he has the hood on for all of his moves, there are at least 1,300 frames of animation per character and Lab Zero would have to draw twice as many for Beowulf if that were implemented.

First off, although I am not an animator and most likely have no idea the work that must truly be put into all those frames, I believe that the frames that have Beo's hood on would simply be copies of his normal frames but with the minor detail of putting his hood on. No super feral crouch, no claws or additives, just his hood one with a shiny grin underneath and maybe a yellow aura around him. As his level 3, I am sort of envision Courage Wolf being the buff super that increases speed at the cost of meter gain, sort of something like Wolverine's own buff super. Honestly, Beowulf could just have two level 3s, Courage Wolf and Ultimate Grapple (Let's roll with that name for now). Ultimate Grapple being the grab super ending with a button mashing ground pound.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Ultimate Grapple being the grab super ending with a button mashing ground pound.

I have a faint (and possibly faulty) recollection of Mike not wanting to put in button mashing because it's not skill based (then what about Cerebella's jLP?).
UNLESS.... One of Beowulf's Trophies (for some strange reason) is a fight stick, which he uses to beat the opponent on the ground while screaming "MUST. MASH. HARDER!"

 

[Mike_Z]

First off, although I am not an animator and most likely have no idea the work that must truly be put into all those frames, I believe that the frames that have Beo's hood on would simply be copies of his normal frames but with the minor detail of putting his hood on.

Yyyyep, you don't. No way in hell. It's equivalent to Fortune headless, which are "simply copies" and about 1.5x the work.

 

[Zidiane]

I think him just putting on the hood for key attacks, probably grabs, or his lvl 3 or something would be cool.

 

[Arcana]

maybe he could have a super where he throws his chair and depending on the input it will land on different parts of the stage like Squigly battle opera, and if you use the same super while the chair is out it becomes a grab that sends the opponent to the chair?

 

[Detective Q]

About the hood thing… I once had the idea that the fur he’s wearing is also a parasite, and once he’s starting to wear the hood it consumes him, making him look more and more like a werewolf. Like in the first stage his teeth grow to fangs and the hair on his arms and face grows wilder. In the end, he would look like a real werewolf with nothing human left. I thought about making it an ability, like you input it like Big Bands/Peacocks command taunt (yes I know, Darkstalkers) and he puts the hood on. After that there would be a timer of some sort, indicating how much time is left before he goes to the next state of transformation. Maybe three states in total? One normal, the second as mentioned with fangs and a little bit of fur, and the third completely transformed.

I thought that’s cool because of the Berserker thing. You know… about them wearing the skin of dead animals to gain their power and rushing headless into battle, without any armor. I imagined Beowulf growing stronger and faster over the transformation process, but would lose certain moves because he simply forgets them in his bloodlust or doesn’t care about technique anymore. And he throws the chair off-screen at level 3 so you can’t use it for the rest of the match. Maybe additionally a super move like “control” were you either stop the process entirely while staying halfway transformed or go to a lower level to regain certain moves.

I like the idea. But of course that’s just my fantasy and his gameplay in the end is totally different, but I would like him to be more than a simple man. Of course that would ruin him as a character who is a normal human but so extraordinary strong that he can rip a giant’s arm of, that’s a really big thing if you’re without a parasite or other magical ability.

And having another parasite is kind of lame; we have 3 naturals with a personality now (including Sekhmet) and many synthetic ones. But how about the parasite is actually dead, killed by Beowulf and he wears the fur with pride? Or it’s not a parasite but an ancient beast, nearly as old as them, and he killed it to proof his strength. But if he fully wears the fur (with the hood) the spirit of the beast awakes, trying to possess his body so it can return to the world of the living.

Just my thoughts about it guys, I think Mike and the gang already have plenty of gameplay ideas which outrank mine by a million. And also, animating him with the transformations and stuff would be really hard. And expensive.

 

[Denizen]

Yyyyep, you don't. No way in hell. It's equivalent to Fortune headless, which are "simply copies" and about 1.5x the work.

Yeah I thought as much, it's one of the very few downsides to hand drawn animation.
On the bright side, this comment shows that Lab Zero actually reads these threads.

 

[WayForger]

I have a faint (and possibly faulty) recollection of Mike not wanting to put in button mashing because it's not skill based (then what about Cerebella's jLP?).
UNLESS.... One of Beowulf's Trophies (for some strange reason) is a fight stick, which he uses to beat the opponent on the ground while screaming "MUST. MASH. HARDER!"

You don't understand. By mash I mean more button presses=more hits within the allotted time for the level 3. Damage would scale (obviously) with each hit but it still is a super and a level 3 no less. The whole trophy idea is great and I think it could be used like Frank West's super where he hits the opponent with a ton of stuff. Maybe as a level 2 or something? Just my two cents.

Yyyyep, you don't. No way in hell. It's equivalent to Fortune headless, which are "simply copies" and about 1.5x the work.

Thanks for confirmation it chief. That's why I put the whole "I don't know..." in the comment. On the subject of Fortune's head, was it that much more work due to all the combined frames of it's movement and attacks? Just wondering.

I think him just putting on the hood for key attacks, probably grabs, or his lvl 3 or something would be cool.

I agree wholeheartedly with this in regards to Mike's input. I think the whole "Ultimate Grapple" super I mentioned could end with Beowulf having it on and taking it off. Just sort of a nod to all of us players who really like the hooded aesthetic. They could also just put it in as his intro to shut those who want to see it really bad (me) up.

If you use the same super while the chair is out it becomes a grab that sends the opponent to the chair?

Are you thinking of something Solomon Grundy like? A walking grab for a small time period where if Beowulf grabs the opponent he tosses them into the Hurting for a potential combo?

 

[Broseidon Rex]

You don't understand. By mash I mean more button presses=more hits within the allotted time for the level 3. Damage would scale (obviously) with each hit but it still is a super and a level 3 no less.

That's what I meant, button pressing during the super as a way to increase damage during the super. I forgot that mashing usually refers to someone hitting random buttons during regular play in hopes of winning. Personally, I would prefer the damage to be set (with the usual scaling) since the button mashing doesn't seem to add much to the gameplay and is not fun enough to warrant it.

The whole trophy idea is great and I think it could be used like Frank West's super where he hits the opponent with a ton of stuff. Maybe as a level 2 or something? Just my two cents.

You seeing this as a projectile (just throws all the stuff) or a hit confirm (hits with one thing, then proceeds to go ham with all his old trophies?)

 

[WayForger]

That's what I meant, button pressing during the super as a way to increase damage during the super. I forgot that mashing usually refers to someone hitting random buttons during regular play in hopes of winning. Personally, I would prefer the damage to be set (with the usual scaling) since the button mashing doesn't seem to add much to the gameplay and is not fun enough to warrant it.


You seeing this as a projectile (just throws all the stuff) or a hit confirm (hits with one thing, then proceeds to go ham with all his old trophies?)

Set damage would be all fine and good for the Level 3 grab super. The other one would have to be hit confirm, I think that it would be better this way.

This comment shows that Lab Zero actually reads these threads.

I never doubted it. It is always nice to have the team acknowledging the fact that fans may have some good things to say. I personally doubt that they may use them but it is better than nothing. Alex probably has both Beo and R-Fortune already mapped concept wise. Or, maybe he doesn't. The team doesn't really go into how their brainstorming for characters goes. They usually just surprise us with awesome stuff.

 

[Horseman]

Building of of Zen's idea...
Special Move: Setting up Shop, Take a Seat
- The Hurting is unfolded directly in front of Beowulf. Can be used in junction with Beowulf's throws for greater damage.

- The Hurting is set then kicked forward to about a 1/3 of the screen away. The Hurting slides at a medium pace and acts as a shield for 1 projectile hit. If it hits the chair causes the enemy to take a seat in the chair for the duration of the slide only to be flung out for a hard knockdown.

- The Hurting is set and kicked full screen at a slower pace than the MK version of this move. When hit, the enemy character is seated much like the MK version, and it will also seats assist characters. This leaves the opponent in a sitting state where they are put into a sitting stagger state.

Additionally:
- Beowulf grabs the opponent with one hand, sets the hurting in front of him with the other and slams their ass into the hurting. They're knocked up but the hurting stays, trajectory and stun should allow beowulf to jump onto the hurting and continue to combo them while they're in the air.

 

[WayForger]

Additionally:
- Beowulf grabs the opponent with one hand, sets the hurting in front of him with the other and slams their ass into the hurting. They're knocked up but the hurting stays, trajectory and stun should allow beowulf to jump onto the hurting and continue to combo them while they're in the air.

I like this idea a lot. Nice one Horseman.

 

[Little Band]

Small input, maybe one of beowulf a grabs could be him like squishing the other person in half by sitting and then shutting the Hurting

 

[Little Band]

Maybe he could have certain one off moves or special combos that would make him hooded (during the combos, also hooded during his supers) for instance, he could do an upward move to send an opponent flying, then a special air grab where he slams them down, his hood falling on in the process. From that point, you would have the option of continuing the combo with the hood on (it would probably be a longer version of the normal combo, or could be entirely different) or simply ending with the grab and beowulf flipping his hood back off. It could be similar to yamchas wolf fang fist move (if any of you remember the old old DBZ games), beowulf hitting the opponent with a series of strikes, and where a normal combo would end beowulf would have an extra few moves tacked on (most likely open palmed, wolf like clawing and beating) you could initiate the moves primarily through a special input, like a grab.

 

[CaioLugon]

I always mash during argus.

 

[Balder]

*just kinda copy-pasting from The Wulf Den*

Speculation

Tizoc (Garou: Mark of the Wolves), R. Mika (Street Fighter series), Macho Man Randy Savage (WWE), The Ultimate Warrior (WCW), King (Tekken), El Fuerte (Street Fighter IV), Captain America (Versus series), not Kanji

From these I guess he might have a anti-air grab, close range grab and dash grab, a attack from above (Tizoc's elbow drop, Mika's ass bomb) and a mobility skill to get around (maybe not a dash since Bella already has that but a evade like Cap's cartwheel).

Ideas
Character trait - Oldschool grappling
Beowulf could have throw mechanics like in the olden days of fighting games where throw was done by pressing direction+Hard P or K when at closest range. In SSFII, Zangief had like 6+ throw animations just from using MK, HK, MP and HP. This could give him plenty of tactical options and maybe even "save" his special moves for mobility and Hurting set-ups.

Lv3 - Three Wolf Moonsault
Beowulf does a projectile-invincible (maybe fully invincible?) lightning quick dash at the opponent, knocking them on their ass with a lariat and proceeds to use The Hurting to catapult himself off-screen. Cue a short cutscene of a full moon background and a small silhouette of Beowulf moonsaulting; as this happens, three wolf heads appear (like the Mike Z cat, there's a very rare chance of a derpy wolf head appearing). Back to the "regular game screen", Beowulf crashes over the opponent FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE.

 

[WayForger]

So many super ideas so little button combinations.

 

[Denizen]

So many super ideas so little button combinations.

Yeah let's get some inputs to go with these cool move ideas, and don't be afraid to get creative!

 

[SanoBaron]

... still would be nice if he had a sell move.... I think it'd be funny.