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Big Band Tech Thread: Small/Big Tips & Strategy YOU Notice?

Zephyrel said:
So is it even bigger news for scrubs that you can realistically do SSJ at match start and get it on the third frame or so?
Finally, a way to beat everyone rude enough to move forward, sweep or doing an overhead at match start instead of neutral jumping or backing up like 99% of other players, godlike

You can, but it's a lot more predictable because it's not an overhead. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to mash.

I think this would be a more appropriate headline:

Zephyrel said:
bigger news for even bigger scrubs
 
Mike_Z said:
Timpani is also not an overhead...


That's right, thanks for reminding me. No idea how I didn't catch that, because it's actually an unblockable.


@mcpeanuts
 
big news for sg_master1377
 
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Si Kinda have to thank @pegglefrank for that tk qcf thing. I'm not using it for Big Band but more for Beowulf where he can benefit more with tk wulf blitzers in juggle combos. There is also some silly stuff you can do with this.
 
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A mildly useful thing to note about tk motions is that the jump direction can be changed, e.g., it doesn't have to be up back for qcb or up forward for qcf. Big Band can do qcb up forward to move forward during tk cymbal clash, which makes it ever so slightly easier for connecting and converting off of it.

TK Cymbal Clash is slow, but the L version is -2 on block and the M and H versions are +0 when done as low to the ground as possible.
 
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Against non-zoners, you can use Satchmo Solo as an instant (1-frame startup), mostly-unbeatable reversal.

Pull out the trumpet at fullscreen. Play s.lp, c.lk, s.lp, and then wait. The moment your opponent makes any move at all that could be punished, just hit s.lp + s.mp. Jabs may be difficult to react to, but if they throw out a medium or a heavy while you're in trumpet stance, you should be fully able to react in time.

The trumpet can only be held for 10 seconds after the last note was played, so every 10 seconds you'll need to play the first three notes of the SG main theme again in order to renew the trumpet.

This doesn't lose to sweeps as long as you're quick enough. Satchmo Deathblow has an obscenely disjointed hitbox.
 
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pegglefrank said:
Against non-zoners, you can use Satchmo Solo as an instant (1-frame startup), mostly-unbeatable reversal.
this is REALLY crazy but instead of playing three notes on the trumpet you can just do QCF over and over and get the same thing(!). unfortunately it doesn't last ten seconds but you can do other important things like moving
 
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After every reversal SSJ when cornered by light characters, remember to claim your free hard knockdown.

SSJ
smk xx H Brass (microdash optional)

SSJ
microdash + smk xx H A-Train (microdash required)

Against heavier characters H Brass OTGs, so you can still get damage by spending more meter but sadly no hard knockdown. Oh, and to get H A-Train to connect, you have to be right flush against the corner. There's a little wiggle room for connecting H Brass if you're good with microdashes, but not much.
 
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Universal LK "A" Train setups


Benefits to LK "A" Train:
  • +1350 free damage (+2340 MK, +2990 HK)
  • Sliding knockdown
  • Limited oki in midscreen
  • Free oki in corner
  • Resets are realistic and believable (drunken style)
EDIT: Added more info for the sake of comparison.

s.mk x2, kara s.hk, LK "A" Train

Benefits:
  • Beats pushblock. (PP mash)
  • Beats 4, 1, 2, 3, 6, and 5.
Drawbacks:
  • Opponent may keep holding up-back in expectation of an aerial 50/50.
  • Loses to 7, 8, and 9.

s.mk, blocked s.hp, LK "A" Train

Benefits:
  • Natural/drunken style encourages opponent to try and punish with a jab.
  • Beats 4, 1, 2, 3, 6, and 5.
  • Beats mash.
  • Blockstun ends prematurely when the opponent lands, giving them almost no time to react to the command grab.
Drawbacks:
  • Loses to pushblock. (PP mash)
  • Opponent may try and jump for their punish.
  • Loses to 7, 8, and 9.

s.mk blocked x2, LK "A" Train

Benefits:
  • Natural/drunken style encourages opponent to try and punish with a jab.
  • Beats 4, 1, 2, 3, 6, and 5.
  • Beats mash.
  • Blockstun ends prematurely when the opponent lands, giving them almost no time to react to the command grab.
Drawbacks:
  • Loses to pushblock. (PP mash)
  • Opponent may try and jump for their punish.
  • Loses to 7, 8, and 9.

s.mk blocked x2, blocked s.hp, LK "A" Train

Benefits:
  • Natural/drunken style encourages opponent to try and punish with a jab even more.
  • Beats 4, 1, 2, 3, 6, and 5.
  • Beats mash.
Drawbacks:
  • Loses to pushblock, and gives them more time to pushblock. (PP mash)
  • Opponent may try and jump for their punish.
  • Loses to 7, 8, and 9.
  • Blockstun is extended on the ground by blocked s.hp, giving them more time to anticipate a command grab by removing the shortcut between blocked s.hp and LK "A" Train normally made possible by landing during blockstun.

s.mk, LK "A" Train

Benefits:
  • Beats pushblock.
  • Beats mash.
  • Beats 4, 1, 2, 3, 6, and 5.
Drawbacks:
  • Looks intentional and can become very predictable.
  • Beaten by up-back, which should be expected because s.mk x1 into air grab is a common reset and the opponent will likely continue holding up-back
  • Loses to 7, 8, and 9.
  • Loses to mashed air super.
Checklist

Are they a defensive player? Don't use blocked moves; they're more likely to pushblock.

Does their character have a mashable air super? Put them into blockstun with a blocked move so that they can't mash out of the air.

Do they easily fall for low resets after launchers? Don't try to catch them with LK "A" Train; use a low instead, or if they're to far away, use MK or HK "A" Train.

Do they mash supers non-stop during combos? Just block and follow up with an optimized combo.

Do they like to mash with standing or crouching moves (this includes DPs)? Either block or use LK "A" Train.

Do they like to mash with jumping moves? Either block or use MK or HK "A" Train.
 
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pegglefrank said:
Universal LK "A" Train setups
So it's a good video, and some neat tech especially if you back it up with an assist, but "whiffed" means "doesn't make contact at all" not "doesn't combo / is blocked". That's "uncombo" or "blocked".

[edit]
I actually mean that it's good tech. Most of my resets or tactics in every game are "drunken style" making it look like you messed up. :^P
 
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Mike_Z said:
So it's a good video, and some neat tech especially if you back it up with an assist, but "whiffed" means "doesn't make contact at all" not "doesn't combo / is blocked". That's "uncombo" or "blocked".

[edit]
I actually mean that it's good tech. Most of my resets or tactics in every game are "drunken style" making it look like you messed up. :^P

I didn't want to use "whiffed," but I couldn't think of a good word to use in its place. I'm not sure why I didn't think of "uncombo" or "blocked;" I'll go and edit that in, thanks.
 
You can cancel the first part of s.mk to s.mk x2 any time. Using this, you can do some really dumb and technically efficient resets by letting the opponent block the first hit of s.mk in a combo and then doing s.mk x2 much, much later when they expect to be able to punish or throw or whatever.

The reason I call this "efficient" is because the second hit of s.mk actually deals more damage than the first, meaning that, technically, hitting the opponent with the second hit of s.mk x2 and going into full combo will lead to more damage than if you just used s.mk.
 
Some random tech tidbits you may or may not already know. These aren't significantly helpful or useful, but knowing stuff never hurts.

1. High parry and low parry have separate timers. That is, a low parry attempt can be immediately 'canceled' into a high parry attempt (assuming it's off cooldown) and vice versa. Can you use this to option select common high-low mixups? Not really. Well, maybe you can, but I haven't figured out anything reliable yet besides Fukua's shadows. It does gives you a very wide window to parry assists, however, by alternating parry directions.

2. Beat Extend can be kara-canceled by doing :DP: + s.mk ~ lp or hp, compared to the other kara-cancel method of doing s.mk :DP: punch button. (You can also kara backwards by doing s.lk instead of s.mk.) This is slightly faster than doing smk first. Whenever I try to do :DP: smk ~ mp I get double snap instead, which is really obnoxious since that would be the most useful version to kara-cancel with this method.

3. Sound stun causes Sekhmet to freeze whatever she's doing for a time and allows Big Band to combo into throws. C.hp xx A-Train combos against her, including L A-Train. MK or HK Cymbal Clash into ground throw also combos against her. All of Big Band's other sound stun moves will freeze Sekhmet but leave Big Band vulnerable due to lengthy recovery.

4. Minimum distance HK E-Brake and MK E-Brake travel different distances despite taking the same amount of time to complete. This is completely irrelevant most of the time. If you know an extremely spacing sensitive setup, the difference in distance may be useful. I know one, so it's handy for me, and in my case it turns the reset into a 50-50 against some characters with no difference in input except MK or HK E-Brake.

5. Big Band can dodge Double's car super with M Beat Extend, but it is very difficult to time correctly.

6. Microdash ~ smk xx HK A-Train reaches full screen. It grabs all characters who are neutral jumping at full screen, but if they are up-backing it will whiff. This is great for surprising Fukuas and Valentines who are sleepily upbacking and throwing projectiles.
 
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Jim Groovester said:
3. Sound stun causes Sekhmet to freeze whatever she's doing for a time and allows Big Band to combo into throws. C.hp xx A-Train combos against her, including L A-Train. MK or HK Cymbal Clash into ground throw also combos against her. All of Big Band's other sound stun moves will freeze Sekhmet but leave Big Band vulnerable due to lengthy recovery.

I believe this also applies to bursts as well. If you hit someone with sound stun after triggering IPS, if they attempt to burst the hit that caused the soundstun or any time after that, the burst should get delayed until soundstun ends so they'll burst at a reliable time. I don't think its particularly useful though unless you're trying to armor or parry the burst though, since the 90f burst protection should make the burst gold anyways.

Jim Groovester said:
5. Big Band can dodge Double's car super with M Beat Extend, but it is very difficult to time correctly.

this is good to know, at least to have some kind of option when I've got a normal in the middle of whiffing. I've tried h extend but the car mostly just went halfway through before hitting on the way out.
 
Depending on the normal it may not be possible to dodge with M Beat Extend. If you're whiffing c.hk or the second hit of c.mp and Double is coming at you from the front, you're probably SOL.

Another thing to try is to dodge partially with M Beat Extend and then cancel into SSJ, and hope and pray that you don't autocorrect in the same direction that Double's traveling. That seems to work even if Big Band is in the middle of his larger moves like c.hp and c.hk. If done right Big Band will absorb a hit of armor and scoot out of the way. Don't try this if Double is coming from the corner; there's not enough room for Big Band to get out of the way.
 
Playing Robo Fortune sucks. Here's one way to deal with her full screen zoning:

Jump, air block, PBGC jhk, tech forward
Or if you're brave:
Jump, parry, jhk, tech forward

After a push block or a parry jhk can be done pretty low to the ground and you can still get the ground tech. I've used this with pretty reasonable success, and it makes advancing towards her significantly less of a chore.

It's not foolproof though; if Robo Fortune knows what's up she can hit you with a beam while you're falling or landing from the j.hk.
 
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"The OS", which applies to PW and BB:
As a reversal, do QCT+LP+LK+MP+MK. This covers reversal SSJ if grounded, reversal Timpani if airborne, and throw tech, but only if done as a reversal. If done at regular neutral, you will get a throw attempt only.
 
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If you're going to go for the 50/50 c.MK incoming what's the best way to convert off that? Beat Extend, Overhead and s.HP are all unsafe...
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
If you're going to go for the 50/50 c.MK incoming what's the best way to convert off that? Beat Extend, Overhead and s.HP are all unsafe...
s.HP. Cancel to L Brass if it's blocked. Delay the cancel to L Brass so that they actually touch the ground, otherwise they land cancel the L Brass and you're still unsafe.

I don't do that incoming much anymore though. I normally do super jump double jump j.MK. Depending on when you push j.MK it either crosses up or doesn't. Since you're doing the left/right from above them, there's less risk of an air super beating it out. You can hit confirm it with c.LK which is plus on block if they do guess the correct side. I stole this from Japan so you know it's good
 
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mcpeanuts said:
s.HP. Cancel to L Brass if it's blocked. Delay the cancel to L Brass so that they actually touch the ground, otherwise they land cancel the L Brass and you're still unsafe.

I don't do that incoming much anymore though. I normally do super jump double jump j.MK. Depending on when you push j.MK it either crosses up or doesn't. Since you're doing the left/right from above them, there's less risk of an air super beating it out. You can hit confirm it with c.LK which is plus on block if they do guess the correct side. I stole this from Japan so you know it's good

Yeah, that's way better!

That reminds me of a hard knockdown setup I saw Warped do the other day. Off a knockdown, just do crossover j.MK. It will bait out a lot of reversals you can punish, and if you can't punish it by making the reversal whiff, you can whiff cancel your j.MK into Timpani and hit them that way.

Some of you probably knew about this, but I didn't. In the corner you can do something similar with double jump j.MK since you can't cross over them.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Yeah, that's way better!

That reminds me of a hard knockdown setup I saw Warped do the other day. Off a knockdown, just do crossover j.MK. It will bait out a lot of reversals you can punish, and if you can't punish it by making the reversal whiff, you can whiff cancel your j.MK into Timpani and hit them that way.

Some of you probably knew about this, but I didn't. In the corner you can do something similar with double jump j.MK since you can't cross over them.
Hm, I didn't think you could get close enough for a crossover j.MK after a hard knockdown. Do you have to do the kara emergency brake stuff to get close enough before they get up?
 
mcpeanuts said:
Hm, I didn't think you could get close enough for a crossover j.MK after a hard knockdown. Do you have to do the kara emergency brake stuff to get close enough before they get up?

It was just dashing at the opponent and then jumping MK. It's in the Warped Echo/Sonic Fox stream for the other night if you want to look for it.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
It was just dashing at the opponent and then jumping MK. It's in the Warped Echo/Sonic Fox stream for the other night if you want to look for it.
They played like 50 games lol. Any idea where in the set it happened?
 
mcpeanuts said:
They played like 50 games lol. Any idea where in the set it happened?

No idea, sorry. I'd have to go looking for it.

Or, a way easier way, @WarpedEcho what's that setup you did with Big Band and crossover j.MK off of hard knockdown?
 
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So, a bad habit I've had with this character is always going for pushblock baits with j.LK, either with j.LK (1 hit) xx Cymbal Clash or j.LK (1 hit) j.HP fastfall throw. Which, this is pretty good if you think they're going to pushblock the j.LK on the third hit but pretty bad if they pushblock on the first hit. Like anything else you gotta mix it up sometimes. So I tried to figure out options if they pushblock the first hit. It looks like you can do another instant j.LK followed by a delayed j.MK. If they stand block, instant j.LK delay j.MK repeat is a block infinite if they don't pushblock; when you read the pushblock, THEN you go for the pushblock bait. If they're crouch blocking, j.LK is an instant overhead against a lot of characters. Against the other characters if they switch to crouch block... I'm not sure? Actually I was playing mwm's Filia last night and the instant j.LK kept hitting him overhead. I don't think that's a real fuzzy guard setup since you're allowed to crouch after the first hit of j.LK, and j.LK doesn't instant overhead on Filia, so idk what that's about.

Haven't tested this rigorously against PBGC yet. Tried it on Parasoul and it looks like if she pushblocks the first hit and does PBGC Pillar, you recover in time to block the pillar. My guess is that not everyone is gonna have a reversal option out of PBGC that will hit Big Band while he's doing instant j.LK, either because it's too slow or because it whiffs against him while he's jumping. The characters who I imagine have reversal options are probably Filia, Cerebella, Fortune, Big Band, and Beowulf. Against those characters I guess if you read PBGC then, like, block.
 
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That's definitely worth practicing.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Ok I figured out what was happening wrt to Filia. If you're Filia, and you block j.LK and immediately switch to a crouching block, an instant j.LK will whiff cause you're crouching. If you block j.LK but don't switch to a crouching block until the 3rd hit, an instant j.LK WILL hit you. It is a fuzzy guard if they switch blocks on the last hit of the j.LK, but not on any of the others. That's wild. Feels like there's mixup opportunities there.

Also forgot to mention. If they pushblock j.LK while they're standing at all, you can force them to block an instant j.LK no matter what character they are. At that point they're absolute guarding, and they blocked the first thing standing, so they're forced to block everything else standing until the pushblock animation ends. Wilddddddddddddd
 
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CaioLugon said:
Mike has been doing that for a while with a-train.
If you use H Train and it's blocked, it's much harder to punish than H Brass.
And if you super off H Brass like that you often get the single-hit SSJ, after which it's not possible to do an OTG H Brass.
tl;dr use H Train instead.
 
Here's a small tip. So Big Band's level 5, the input is LP 2LK LP LP+MP, right? The game will also accept LP 2LK 2LP 2LP+MP. I think it's a little easier to input if you don't have to let go of down after the second note.
 
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