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Combo breaker and game speed

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I came here for the lolz, stayed for the bike.

On a serious note, I believe the OPs problem is simply that a) he's never really understood how unforgiving fighting games can be and b) thinking that there's some sort of "golden formula" for fighting games (no there isn't, variety is the spice of life and each fighting game has it's own style and flavor).
 
He's trolling but he's kind of right. Once you get caught in a combo the momentum is incredibly hard to get back. From my personal experience you either roll over someone or you get rolled over with very little in between. Just look at all the grudge match videos. They're either blowouts or the players go back and forth nearly perfecting each other. The reason mashed supers are such a "problem" is because there is zero reward for blocking some unreactable high/low/throw/crossup reset. You're either back in a block string or you teched a throw and are about to deal with another Hornet Bomber coming so just mashing super is better about 90% of the time.

Still a fun game though.
 
It's always great getting that "IT'S MY TURN NOW" feeling. Then when you're on the opposite end and then you try to PBGC but then end up messing up and getting hit then you feel stupid....
 
He's trolling but he's kind of right. Once you get caught in a combo the momentum is incredibly hard to get back. From my personal experience you either roll over someone or you get rolled over with very little in between. Just look at all the grudge match videos. They're either blowouts or the players go back and forth nearly perfecting each other. The reason mashed supers are such a "problem" is because there is zero reward for blocking some unreactable high/low/throw/crossup reset. You're either back in a block string or you teched a throw and are about to deal with another Hornet Bomber coming so just mashing super is better about 90% of the time.

Still a fun game though.
I don't agree that there's no reward for blocking correctly. If you block the reset, and then block the string after that, block their assist call, then block the next mixup they got off the assist call, then you might get to play again. Which is difficult to do but if you pull it off you feel like the biggest boss in the entire world.
 
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People suck at blocking nothing is new.
I nominate myself for having some of the worst blocks tho
 
People are too lazy to learn to PBGC. If people learned to properly PBGC, the oki game gets way more important.
 
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I hate you so much right now.

I hate you too? Seriously though, people keep suggesting to add/remove mechanics in games when there are already games that operate that way.
 
People need to put less time in their combos and more work in their blocking.
 
People need to put less time in their combos and more work in their blocking.

said players of every fighting game ever. For whatever reason, everyone wants to be Marlinpie and not Dieminion.
 
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He's trolling but he's kind of right. Once you get caught in a combo the momentum is incredibly hard to get back. From my personal experience you either roll over someone or you get rolled over with very little in between. Just look at all the grudge match videos. They're either blowouts or the players go back and forth nearly perfecting each other. The reason mashed supers are such a "problem" is because there is zero reward for blocking some unreactable high/low/throw/crossup reset. You're either back in a block string or you teched a throw and are about to deal with another Hornet Bomber coming so just mashing super is better about 90% of the time.

Still a fun game though.
I'm pretty sure that was the case with Marvel 2 once folks like Yipes started getting really good with the original "vortex" that was MSP. And even when people started responding and leveling up, you'd still see blowouts. This is why long sets have always been the standard with Marvel. IMO they should be the standard with SG online too.
 
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I'm pretty sure that was the case with Marvel 2 once folks like Yipes started getting really good with the original "vortex" that was MSP. And even when people started responding and leveling up, you'd still see blowouts. This is why long sets have always been the standard with Marvel. IMO they should be the standard with SG online too.

Tournament marvel 2 was still 2 out of 3. Personally, sent/strider/doom was a harder vortex to get out of, assuming the player was decent. MSP could be escaped with the right moves. Ourorboros/rocks was inescapable until they ran out of meter.
 
Blocking is hard. Not being able to tech throws while crouching is what really makes it hard though I feel.
PBGC is hard too, but people are getting better at it. I know Omni and TJ do it for days, and I assume others will learn how to do it properly in the future too.
 
Are you kidding me? SG Doesn't need combo breakers! It's a thing called drama. It can get you out of those sticky combos! You, my sir are possibly trying to troll, because Heck, I'm new to Encore, which is my 2nd day, and I know how to get out of the situations you are in. Like they all say... get better and this wouldn't be happening to ya. And why are you complaining about the game's speed? It's perfect for a gamee like this! That's all I got to say for now....

Sometimes the game can be a jerk and lag, but hey, that's online for ya. :-: it's sad how Peacock is highly unusable due to lag.

Also, reducing the game speed for SG Would be bad because it wasn't built to be a slow paced game... If it was like that, the matches would end ALWAYS in a time over. Many people don't want Time over to determine the victor... I'm done for now.
 
Gonna combo break this guy's posting combo
 
XD I saw what you did there! I'm new so, kinda expected somebody to do that
 
Yeah...merged the triple posts together when they were a couple min apart from each other.
 
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XD. Sorry, I just rushed and sent three in a row accidentally. anyhow, I think Dredd isn't gonna say anything else because we all proved him wrong.
 
He biked away into the sunset...




I am the Law.

See you Space Cowboy
 
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and then he rode an elephant! Into the sunset....-Taco-Man as he goes towards the sun-
 
Oh Darn it... XD I need combos not on here, lol.
 
I don't agree that there's no reward for blocking correctly. If you block the reset, and then block the string after that, block their assist call, then block the next mixup they got off the assist call, then you might get to play again. Which is difficult to do but if you pull it off you feel like the biggest boss in the entire world.
Changing my political affiliation to "I like those blocks."
 
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YOU'RE OUTTA HERE! -Breaks retro's possible combo with the bat- Khaos, I saw your guide. Thanks so much
 
I'm pretty sure that was the case with Marvel 2 once folks like Yipes started getting really good with the original "vortex" that was MSP. And even when people started responding and leveling up, you'd still see blowouts. This is why long sets have always been the standard with Marvel. IMO they should be the standard with SG online too.
Tournament marvel 2 was still 2 out of 3. Personally, sent/strider/doom was a harder vortex to get out of, assuming the player was decent. MSP could be escaped with the right moves. Ourorboros/rocks was inescapable until they ran out of meter.
alexpi is spot on-- 3/5 is only a Marvel 3 thing. You're mistaking "momentum" with "volatility." The reason Marvel 3 is 3/5 (and why Tekken players want to adopt that structure) is because the minimum reward for guessing right is ridiculously high, SDE Tag Combo high. Meter gain doesn't scale during combos, infinites are widely accessible, unscaled level 3's allow most characters to kill off a touch without infinites, assist calls will remain active even if you're in hitstun (which is hugely beneficial for the person who can call them to cover the end of his pressure), unblockables are not uncommon, the good characters have really good divekicks or hugely disjointed hitboxes, incoming mixups are true gambles that compound multiple times, PBGC doesn't exist, and everybody knows all of this. In Skullgirls, as Dredd accidentally admitted, you can get touched and still have a bunch of chances to escape, which reduces volatility and also reduces randomness. MvC3 only went to 3/5 because the game is so volatile that it started becoming random.

People ASKED for 3/5 Marvel 2 back in 2003 or so, but their arguments were shot down by the fact that tournament results were incredibly consistent and remained that way for the entire lifetime of the game, which says a lot about a game that had 1-meter catheads with meter gain allowed. Skullgirls has no such problem, and double elimination 2/3 more than suffices for it currently.
 
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alexpi is spot on-- 3/5 is only a Marvel 3 thing.


it was an ST thing first *puts on hipster hat, OS's DP with everything
 
Looks like broken loose already got to what I was going to mention lol
 
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A dude comes in obviously joking, using bad arguments that have proven wrong countless times, and people respond to him by linking DAVID SIRLOIN articles.

Poe's Law is coming full circle folks!
 
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Tournament marvel 2 was still 2 out of 3. Personally, sent/strider/doom was a harder vortex to get out of, assuming the player was decent. MSP could be escaped with the right moves. Ourorboros/rocks was inescapable until they ran out of meter.
Was talking specifically about Yipes' MSP, which is where the term "Vortex" came from.

Also, money matches for Marvel 2 (which is you ask certain players, is what actually matters) have always had more sets (FT10 at least with FT15 and FT20 not being uncommon).
 
money matches were more important if you lost in the main tournament. tournament matches were more important if you lost money matches.
 
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With my power of necrofancy i reviving this thread.
While i think OP is kinda trolly, i see his point. Your number of options is limited when you are defending. You have to wait for reset and then even if you "deduced" right when reset is happening there is quite the chance that you choose wrong course of action and new combo begin.
I didn't played for awhile and i am disgustingly bad but judging by scr it didn't change much.
Yes it happens in all types of fighting games and they have very little options as well, but in such fast paced game with such easy executions and very long combos (i.e there is a lot of place where to stick your reset) i feel there has to be a bit more tools.
Now, Mike populary-understandble explained why no GG-like burst.
And there is no way combo going to be even shorter(sf4-like) than now , because again, combos is the point of the game.
At this point you probably asking
"So what do we do Moonway, how can we possibly save SG?"
Fear not, for i am posses solution to all human plagues and so happens there is a little about fighting games too.
Behold the greatest idea ever:
ADVANCED DAMAGE SCALING
(also known as "ultra super neo suplex armor","i dont care that you practiced this combo for 9 hours" and for the sake of theme of the game - "comic relief" )
With this amazing feature you can spend you hard-earned meter to significantly reduce damage ,your opponent inflicting on you in current combo. Now you don't have to wait for a reset to react, you can MAKE your opponent go for a reset or just evily laugh as he proceed to tickle you.

Not only this provides additional tool to arsenal of defending side, this do not have problem of the GGBurst-solution, cause, not only this dose not guarantee return to default position, this solution introduces a lot of situation where ADS would be a bad play. It could be bated just as regular burst, but instead losing health due another combo you gonna lose your meter.


It will probably require a lot little bit of tweaking as well as Meter gaining and super's damage but i believe in this idea .
 
With my power of necrofancy i reviving this thread.
Oh for fuck's sake...
I mean, at least make your own topic or post somewhere else instead of resurrecting this joke of a thread.

While i think OP is kinda trolly, i see his point. Your number of options is limited when you are defending. You have to wait for reset and then even if you "deduced" right when reset is happening there is quite the chance that you choose wrong course of action and new combo begin.
You can't read your opponent correctly and then get reset anyway. If you "deduced" correctly you aren't guessing anything. If you know when the reset is happening you probably know how it's going to happen too. Not to say it's easy to read a good reset (it's not) but you don't read it and then guess.
Also, your options are supposed to shrink heavily once you get hit. The neutral game is when you have all your options- if you have just as many options when you're being hit as when you're in the neutral suddenly blocking or even just getting hit is a fantastic option against all incoming attacks instead of a lose state, which topples over the whole system... I don't think that's what you mean, I'm just trying to illustrate why saying "your options are limited when defending" as a bad thing is really really silly. Limiting your options is about as important as dealing damage for the result of a successful attack; not just in fighting games, in literally any game that involves combat of any sort.

I didn't played for awhile and i am disgustingly bad but judging by scr it didn't change much.
You know, calling yourself "disgustingly bad" and saying that you haven't played the game in several major updates really isn't helping your argument.

And there is no way combo going to be even shorter(sf4-like) than now , because again, combos is the point of the game.
Combos are the point of the game...?

"So what do we do Moonway, how can we possibly save SG?"
For future reference, if anyone reading this wants to make a similar post, never say "save skullgirls." Or say it as much as possible if you're trying to make everyone angry with you.

Fear not, for i am posses solution to all human plagues and so happens there is a little about fighting games too.
Behold the greatest idea ever:
Oh boy

ADVANCED DAMAGE SCALING
(also known as "ultra super neo suplex armor","i dont care that you practiced this combo for 9 hours" and for the sake of theme of the game - "comic relief" )
With this amazing feature you can spend you hard-earned meter to significantly reduce damage ,your opponent inflicting on you in current combo. Now you don't have to wait for a reset to react, you can MAKE your opponent go for a reset or just evily laugh as he proceed to tickle you.
w-w-what? WHAT?
Okay, let me just quote my original post on bursts from the first page of this thread:
This has been talked about a shit ton because it's the number one suggestion of people who don't know how to play skullgirls.
Basically, think of it this way: A super that takes one meter will deal like 2000-3000 damage. A one meter burst will prevent 7000+ damage. If you have a one meter burst there is literally no reason to ever use your meter on anything else. It also doesn't involve strategy in the slightest because the thought process after getting confirmed into a combo is:
Do I have one meter?
No: Wait until I have one meter and HIT THE BURST BUTTON
Yes: HIT THE BURST BUTTON!
Basically, what I'm saying is that it's near impossible to balance the ability to use meter to prevent damage, because it's either going to be too small an amount to be useful or too big an amount to bother using your meter on anything else; there's no good middle ground, and certainly not any middle ground that will do what you want it to do.

Now I have to ask: what problem is this fixing? You still have to block a reset! If you wouldn't have been able to block it without damage scaling, what the fuck makes you think you'll be able to block it now? They're going to go for the exact same reset and the only difference there will be is that everyone takes more confirms to kill! This doesn't do a thing to their reset, it just fucks with the pacing of the match!
I mean, I know I'm being really harsh and blunt but seriously... this would not do what you think it would do. It would be an obvious and automatic choice whenever available at the beginning of a combo, your opponent's reset wouldn't change because you never provided them a reason to, and it would overall just result in a much longer match where one side keeps using their meter to keep themselves alive and the other side has to confirm a whole lot more to get a kill.
 
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How did i not learn of this thread until just now?


I must be slacking. Maybe its the 65 hours over 5 days i just worked. Either way..... Hmmm need to catch up on all this juicy stuff............





Unless someone has a tldr for this thread?


-edit.... Oh fuck... This is the bike thread.... Fuck my short term memory is going, rolled my ankle at work as well.... Sigh, old man problems :(
 
Okay, serious stuff first.
I'm just trying to illustrate why saying "your options are limited when defending" as a bad thing is really really silly.
Yes, you right. But different games require different level of limiting. I just don't think this field was explored enough in SG.
your opponent's reset wouldn't change because you never provided them a reason to
Last time i checked, when you deal no damage , usually you want to go for something else.
You still have to block a reset!
the only difference there will be is that everyone takes more confirms to kill!
it just fucks with the pacing of the match
That is the POINT! Unlike GGburst this doesn't reset to neutral, it doesn't give you momentum, it just takes a little of enemy's momentum and throws it away.
I just want more power in the hands of defending player. A way to ACT rather than REACT.
this would not do what you think it would do
Maybe, but maybe it will do work.


Bonus stage:
Combos are the point of the game...?
Sorry, fucked up with the wording. Meaning - SG is supposed to be combo/reset focused game.
Oh for fuck's sake...
I mean, at least make your own topic or post somewhere else instead of resurrecting this joke of a thread.
I like the mood of this thread.
You know, calling yourself "disgustingly bad" and saying that you haven't played the game in several major updates really isn't helping your argument.
For future reference, if anyone reading this wants to make a similar post, never say "save skullgirls." Or say it as much as possible if you're trying to make everyone angry with you.
You know, forum is a little bit like a fighting game too.
 
Last time i checked, when you deal no damage , usually you want to go for something else.
They're still in hitstun. They may have stopped your attacks from doing damage, but that doesn't prevent them from comboing into any reset they desire. You didn't offer a downside to continuing to combo and reset like nothing just happened, unless the person that activated the damage protection is still gaining meter from the combo (in which case we have a much bigger problem because they're practically invincible if they just keep activating damage scaling.) Simply put- taking the damage away from your attacks mid-combo changes each attack from providing nothing but bonuses to a perfectly neutral action- a neutral action that you can use as a means to set-up your reset. If anything it makes the reset less predictable because they no longer feel the need to get at least a few attacks in before resetting. Where before you were safe for at least 1-2 chains during a combo since it would be silly to reset before you've dealt any real damage... needless to say, it doesn't help at all for the "problem" at hand- that resets seem quick and unblockable to newbies. They would just get hit by more resets, and get more angry.
The other thing that I didn't mention is that it's just incredibly annoying and works against the game's design in the worst possible way. The goal of successful game design is meaningful play, and you're taking nearly all the meaning away from one player's 10-15 second combo to give the other player a very simple choice at the beginning of the combo- it will feel cheap, it will feel terrible, it will just make the game play terrible.
If you don't know the concepts of meaningful play, I would suggest you research it a bit because it's at the core all game design and understanding it would probably serve as a good explanation as to why your mechanic wouldn't work out all that well.

That is the POINT! Unlike GGburst this doesn't reset to neutral, it doesn't give you momentum, it just takes a little of enemy's momentum and throws it away.
I just want more power in the hands of defending player. A way to ACT rather than REACT.
Then why didn't you just say "double everyone's health"? Because that's basically the result of your mechanic... except your version is much, much, much more annoying.
Note that you have done absolutely nothing to momentum, the ONLY thing that has changed at all is the amount of health and the amount of meter you end the combo with. That is the one and only thing. No actual in-game visible thing has been changed besides those to integers.

Maybe, but maybe it will do work.
Why don't we just replace the entire staff of lab zero with random number generators?
You never know, if we get really lucky they could make a good game!

I like the mood of this thread.
...why?
You realize that the OP was mostly ridiculed for his comments, right? Are you looking for people to mock you? How masochistic.
 
On the bright side,

THAT BIKE.
 
exactly how many unrelated pictures do i need to post to get this thread closed?
 
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