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Combo breaker and game speed

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Nap1400 said:
That was the entire point of the game. Play something else if you didn't want this.
So gameplay of SG is totally random. No needs in brains. Am I right? It's not surprising, that the game isn't very popular.

If the game is random, then why does Duckator keep winning tournaments? Please read this article that mentions games being "too random" - http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/more-on-losing.html
Do you want to make conclusion because of only one person? It's not a good idea. And I said earlier, that problem is a сombo-reset-combo-reset. Combos was nerfed, but that didn't change the situation.
 
Dredd said:
сombo-reset-combo-reset

How is that not EVERY fighting game ever though?!

Or do you want combo-end

Or combo-end-incoming-combo-end-incoming-end?

Tell me you need baby I'll supply.
 
Dredd said:
I new that it happened like this... But the truth is that SG too much concentrated on combos and resets. We have so many normals, command normals and specials, but they mostly serve just as part of a combo. Undizzy system didn't change nothing at all. Combo-reset-combo-reset. All other stuff aren't very effective. Is that really mind game? It's more like random.
So you don't want combos, is that what you're asking? Just take combos out of the game?
 
Dredd said:
Do you want to make conclusion because of only one person? It's not a good idea. And I said earlier, that problem is a сombo-reset-combo-reset. Combos was nerfed, but that didn't change the situation.
You make it sound like resets are unhype.
 
Dredd said:
Do you want to make conclusion because of only one person? It's not a good idea. And I said earlier, that problem is a сombo-reset-combo-reset. Combos was nerfed, but that didn't change the situation.

The thing is YOU are trying to make a conclusion with one person. YOU don't like how the game is made therfore it has to be changed while everyone else in this thread is perfectly fine with it.

You also clearly didn't read the article as it is stated that if the same people are constantly winning that is a very big argument against the game being "too random".
 
become better
 
Some real talk though...

Keep in mind that the current burst system is meant to prevent infinite chains and limit damage. It is not meant to simply reset the normal game, which is what something like a 1 meter tension burst would do.

The current game is fast paced and very reset focused, but this is a good thing. If you understand this fact then what you need to do is adapt and change to how the game is played. Yes, there are a lot of resets and many of them can be difficult to react to (very fast mix-ups, instant overheads that cross-up, etc.) but you have OPTIONS. There are plenty of mechanics and character specific moves in the game to counteract against resets. It is also important to know how and when to block because blocking generally puts you at a disadvantage in this game (though not always of course).

Randomness is also a good thing. If you didn't have to guess what your opponent was going to do (how and when they will reset) AND there was a tension based burst mechanic, then people would just be playing footsies all day to hit-confirm into super.
 
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Dredd said:
Do you want to make conclusion because of only one person? It's not a good idea. And I said earlier, that problem is a сombo-reset-combo-reset. Combos was nerfed, but that didn't change the situation.

a lot of games are like that, though. Its just that the execution in SG is easier so everyone can do it.

If MVC2 or GG had skullgirls execution, you'd see the same complaints about them. I mean watch a godlike MSP or Milia player, it looks like skullgirls.
 
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This game does not need a Combo Breaker. If I wanted Combo Breakers, I'd play Killer Instinct.
 
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Immaevilspacewhale said:
We need a new mechanic where getting 5 meters makes you win the match

I've got multiple Moai victories that say this already exists.
 
Broken Loose said:
So you don't want combos, is that what you're asking? Just take combos out of the game?
When I said this? It's yours fantasy. I never offered take combos out of the game.

Couple "combo+reset" are too strong in the game. There is no any good ways to resist this. That is the problem.
There must be balance between a tactics. I make some suggestions, maybe they aren't very good. But the problem really exist.
 
There is a way to resist this: You bait it. You expect it. You prepare counter-tactics for it. I'd rather see combo+reset, with a chance to break away, than "get tapped, you die". This is a multiplayer game, operative prefix being MULTI. If people wanted to play one-sided games, they'd play something like Marvel.
 
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Dagwood said:
If MVC2 or GG had skullgirls execution, you'd see the same complaints about them. I mean watch a godlike MSP or Milia player, it looks like skullgirls.
To be fair, with Millia or I-No, since it's a lot more okizeme focused, it's a lot easier to tell *when* you have to play the guessing game. It's not like SG where not only is there a mix-up, but you don't even know when it's coming.
 
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Mike Z said he wanted a reset focused game. I think this has been achieved. Not that it is perfect, flawless, and can't be improved. However if u want the game not to be reset focused...that isn't happening. Also I believe Mike said he was very much against a GG style burst. I would think of another idea if u want the game to change.
 
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Cynical said:
To be fair, with Millia or I-No, since it's a lot more okizeme focused, it's a lot easier to tell *when* you have to play the guessing game. It's not like SG where not only is there a mix-up, but you don't even know when it's coming.

You may not know when it's coming, buy you can usually see it as it happens.
 
RetroStation said:
There is a way to resist this: You bait it. You expect it. You prepare counter-tactics for it. I'd rather see combo+reset, with a chance to break away, than "get tapped, you die". This is a multiplayer game, operative prefix being MULTI. If people wanted to play one-sided games, they'd play something like Marvel.
Yeah, very helpful advice, like this one: "Be strong and watch your back". Thanks.

blufang said:
Mike Z said he wanted a reset focused game. I think this has been achieved. Not that it is perfect, flawless, and can't be improved. However if u want the game not to be reset focused...that isn't happening. Also I believe Mike said he was very much against a GG style burst. I would think of another idea if u want the game to change.
Did he really said this? Arghhh! In that way it's useless to hope, that he will change "resets". But that thing don't change anything: reset focused game is boring and too much random.

Number of players are slowly decreasing (at least in Steam). The game is very unfriendly to novices. If Mike Z wouldn't change something, SG will be dead. Even DLC can't help it.
 
Dredd said:
Yeah, very helpful advice, like this one: "Be strong and watch your back". Thanks.


Did he really said this? Arghhh! In that way it's useless to hope, that he will change "resets". But that thing don't change anything: reset focused game is boring and too much random.

Number of players are slowly decreasing (at least in Steam). The game is very unfriendly to novices. If Mike Z wouldn't change something, SG will be dead. Even DLC can't help it.
It's the most novice friendly FG you will ever encounter, and since everything you said till now is wrong I'll assume you're just an ignorant guy who refuses to adapt to this game and want it to adapt to you.
 
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Dredd said:
Did he really said this? Arghhh! In that way it's useless to hope, that he will change "resets". But that thing don't change anything: reset focused game is boring and too much random.

Number of players are slowly decreasing (at least in Steam). The game is very unfriendly to novices. If Mike Z wouldn't change something, SG will be dead. Even DLC can't help it.
You're the only one here not enjoying this game. Everyone else is having a good time.
 
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Dredd said:
If Mike Z wouldn't change something, SG will be dead. Even DLC can't help it.
This is an unbelievably short-sighted and selfish view on the matter, and one of the most disgusting things I have read on this forum.

Even assuming that there is truth to the idea that a combo-reset heavy fighter is truly unjust, this game will NOT die over such a dilemma. Skullgirls has lived through more struggle, misfortune :PUN:, and unforgiving circumstances than any other video game I have ever seen, and has prospered despite anything that was thrown at it. Any other indie developer would have given up long before now, but the determination of Lab Zero's entire staff pulled it through, and they continue to do so even now.

This is a game that made $829,829 on the sheer respect, admiration, and faith in the amazing individuals at Lab Zero!

So don't you DARE tell us that a combo-reset fighting style will be the death of Skullgirls.
 
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Dredd said:
But that thing don't change anything: reset focused game is boring and too much random.
So if resets are random... every time you get hit by a mix-up, is that getting RNG screwed?
Because it's the same exact principle as why you lost to the reset: You didn't read your opponent and you didn't/couldn't react fast enough so you got hit.
 
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Dredd said:
beacause of very long combos and unpredictable resets.

Combos are getting shorter, but resets are far from predictable. If you're familiar with the combo system, reset points are actually very predictable. Work on your defense.

Dredd said:
2. Game speed is too high. It doesn't allow react to a reset (for all players: noob, scrub, expert, pro). Eventually the game becomes random in such conditions. Even in a tournament matches one player get another in a coner whith only single combo - and the end. My suggestion: 10% slower game speed.

This is actually one of the slower games out there. It's so slow, that many players have trouble creating actual resets, and instead try for reactable gimmicks.
 
Alpha counters can be considered combo breakers (granted you use it properly) but no one uses them.
There's also pbgc, absolute guard or pbgc AND absolute guard at the same time! But I mean those aren't options I'm sure a combo breaker would be a better idea...

Learn 2 guard. (I should take my own advice :P)
 
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Dredd said:
But that thing don't change anything: reset focused game is boring and too much random.

The game is very unfriendly to novices.

Whether or not you enjoy the reset based game-play is a matter of opinion (of which we are all entitled to our own :P), but the resets are far from random. Sometimes they are difficult to deal with, sometimes they may seem unfair, but like I said before there are plenty of ways to deal with resets. The more you learn the match-ups the more you'll begin to recognize where people might go for a reset. As you start to become familiar with certain resets you learn to counter them appropriately, and even when resets force you to guess 50/50 there are often ways to counter an attempted reset regardless of what your opponent chooses to do. I'm not going to sit here and explain game mechanics to everyone, but the game definitely provides tools and tricks to deal with these situations.

Also I have to disagree with you on the idea that the game is unfriendly to novices. It's exactly the opposite if you ask me. Of all the fighting games that I play, Skullgirls is the only one that has really taught me how to actually play the game on a competitive level. I played a lot of fighting games as a kid but never really got into them because of the difficult learning curves and a lack of friends who were interested in playing the games with me. It wasn't until I started playing SG that I felt like I was able to actually learn and improve on my own.
 
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Dredd what platform do you have Skullgirls on? You've only been here since Wednesday, so I can't say I'm not skeptical about whether or not you are a troll. I'm assuming ASSUMING, that because you've only been on this forum for a few days, you haven't been playing skullgirls for very long. Why don't you play the game for a little longer, build up your opinion on the game? I'm not very good but I'd gladly play against you and answer any questions that you have(within my power). If you get good at this game...no, not even get good, but UNDERSTAND this game enough and still decide that there's a problem, I'm sure people would be more willing to listen. But, for right now at least, you're just a new guy trying to change things you don't know much about to a lot of people. You said your English isn't very good, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just give you a friendly heads-up that some of the things you've been saying have a tone of more...negative intent.

Now, I suggest you do a couple of tutorials for a few characters. I've found that in ANY fighting game, the best way to learn about something that's giving you trouble is to do it or use it yourself, because then you know what to look out for when you have to deal with it. There's a matchmaking thread here, so whenever you feel comfortable enough with the game, hop online and any of us will gladly run a set with you. This game is very new-player friendly, and is one of like 4 fighting games released in the last 8 or so years that bothers to teach players how the game works.

Resets are a part of every fighting game, as a reset is just throwing your opponent off so you can start another combo. If you don't like resets, then you don't like fighting games. What fighting games do you play? I play a little of everything, so I may be able to give you a frame of reference for switching over to SG.
 
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Verdant Brave said:
You're the only one here not enjoying this game. Everyone else is having a good time.
I don't think so. Problem with unstoppable couple "combo+reset" are really exist, and some people understand this too.
juju_for_president said:
This is a game that made $829,829 on the sheer respect, admiration, and faith in the amazing individuals at Lab Zero!

So don't you DARE tell us that a combo-reset fighting style will be the death of Skullgirls.
I say only about Steam, what is going on other platform - I don't know.
Combo-reset fighting style is death of SG. Sad, but true. Rest in peace SG :P
http://steamcharts.com/app/245170
CapnWTF said:
Resets are a part of every fighting game, as a reset is just throwing your opponent off so you can start another combo. If you don't like resets, then you don't like fighting games. What fighting games do you play? I play a little of everything, so I may be able to give you a frame of reference for switching over to SG.
Reset is only a little part of fighting games. And it isn't play so great role in other fighting games.
If you don't like resets, then you don't like fighting games.
It's totaly wrong.
Dredd what platform do you have Skullgirls on? You've only been here since Wednesday, so I can't say I'm not skeptical about whether or not you are a troll. I'm assuming ASSUMING, that because you've only been on this forum for a few days, you haven't been playing skullgirls for very long. Why don't you play the game for a little longer, build up your opinion on the game? I'm not very good but I'd gladly play against you and answer any questions that you have(within my power).
Steam. I played enough time to understand this game. It is too much reset and combo focused. Mike Z for some reason thinks that reset=fighting games. Maybe he and bunch of his funs likes it, but this doesn't mean, that it is right way.
 
So clearly Marvel 2 died because it's a reset heavy game right?

Oh wait, it lasted until Marvel 3 and even then it's still played today.

And Skullgirls is slower then Marvel 2.

Right now it's very apparent that your entire complaining comes down to "I want someone to make this game my way and ignore the opinion of everyone else".
 
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I cannot believe I'm actually going to do this, but here goes:

Lab Zero has been busting their asses and dealing with shit for the past two years, all because of a series of unfortunate events relating to a product they want to push to the masses. Skullgirls was designed to be a combo-intensive game. And, yes, resets are a part of fighting games in general. Mike Z and the rest of L0 have hashed out the mechanics to make SG as balanced of a game as possible. You know what that entails?

  • Infinite Prevention System
  • Undizzy System that's been tweaked since its inception
  • Pushblock (and Guard Cancels)
You know what those three mechanics alone do? They prevent "single-player" combos (like those from MVC3), they prevent infinites (again, see MvC3 and a few other games), and it designed so that you can't die from chip due to being unable to push away for breathing room. Undizzy used to be 420. You know what that meant back then? Touch of Death. Characters either had touch of death combos, or two-touch combos with burst baits involved. Before 420 Undizzy, THERE WAS NO UNDIZZY.

L0 has meticulously designed their mechanics to be as fair as possible. The reason resets are so strong now is because with Undizzy being so low compared to before, you have no choice BUT to reset, or risk getting hit with Undizzy burst, losing whatever momentum you had. And you know what? I, and the majority of the regular playerbase, can deal with it. I'm not even sure if you know what it's like having to erase muscle memory and learn new combos because of a major system change. I've had to erase my muscle memory at least three times in the past six months because the Undizzy changes made my old combos no longer valid. I'm okay with it because I know, long-term, it's going to be a balanced game where two people are duking it out, instead of one person winning from a poke.

Instead of complaining how reset- and combo-focused the game is, adapt. Whatever tools your opponent has are also available to you, should you be willing to put the effort and time into it.

What actually angers me is that you think that some stupid chart dictates SG's longevity. We here at SkullHeart have a tight-knit community. We stream stuff almost daily. We train and share strategies with each other. We here are family, and we do our damnedest to hype this game up for the uneducated masses. So, I'll be DAMNED if anyone thinks the current system will be the death of SG.

Adapt, or leave. Your call.
 
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why is this thread still going?
 
alexpi said:
why is this thread still going?
Because mods haven't locked it yet. I think they should now; it's obvious this thread won't be going anywhere any time soon.
 
I gotta say I disagree with the OP, but come on guys...making fun of his English, let's be grown-ups here. A little sarcasms fun, but like some people've done, say why it doesn't make sense or the games fine instead of just getting defensive :p I've went off the deep end so I'm not really one to talk a whole lot, but still...rep the SG community :)

P.S. Supa hot poster, I'm not a moderator
 
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Just to be clear, I currently see no reason to lock the thread yet after a thorough read. Most of the posts (cleaned up some nonsense posts though) on this thread is relevant to the OP discussion (topic of combo-breakers/bursts and game speed for SG) and there is no critical levels of flaming happening. This simply all boils down to another unpopular opinion conflicting with the masses perspective.

If you all want this thread to die off already then simply stop replying here because ironically your keeping the thread alive. That or if the OP requested the thread to be locked in which case I will be happy to oblige.
 
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