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General Gameplay Discussion

Well, there goes any merit as to why Bella command grabs are better than normal grabs that convert into full combo...


... You serious?

Command grabs do more damage and are untechable and have more range. Its like comparing a super fireball to a regular fireball only without the meter.


Aaaaand we've brought that argument into this thread now...wow.
 
Well, Age planned to bring this argument to the thread.

And the Unblockable I was talking about was Item Drop + USS.
 
... You serious?

Command grabs do more damage and are untechable and have more range. Its like comparing a super fireball to a regular fireball only without the meter.


Aaaaand we've brought that argument into this thread now...wow.

We were supposed to bring Gameplay discussion here.

And Diamond Drop does less damage than normal grabs do into combo for any other character, even with the super at the end. DD can't be ignored as one of her main command grabs, so yeah.
 
I just got done testing for unblockable setups, here's what I found.

First, when holding up-back, you can't block during pre-jump. If your opponent uses a move that puts you in pre-block, that will cancel pre-jump and then you can block, but you can still get hit with projectiles and the like.

Next, I learned that you can't be thrown during pre-block. If a command grab and a low come at you at the same time, just block and you won't get thrown. This would seem to diffuse the low-throw unblockables that Dime_x mentioned.

Not all moves cause pre-block. Command grabs obviously do not, because you can't block them so they need to be jumpable while holding up-back.

Finally, I learned that assists DO NOT cause pre-block. This is the important step that leads to unblockables. If the opposing point character uses a command grab and their assist uses a low, you WILL get thrown if you try to block low, and if the timing is tight enough, you WILL get hit out of your jump when you avoid the throw.

Since you have to jump to avoid the grab and you can't block anything during pre-jump, they don't even need to use a low-hitting assist, anything that hits 1 to 3 frames after the throw, during your jump startup, will break your guard.

I also tested out Mortuary Drop plus Excellebella. Sure enough, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

While testing different combinations, I even found out that if the assist's strike and the point character's command grab connect on the same frame, the defender STILL gets opened up. If you set up a sliding knockdown, you can call a meaty assist on your rising opponent, then time your grab to catch them on the first wake-up frame.

For a practical example, team up Cerebella with Double. When you knock your opponent down in the corner with Titan Knuckle, call Hornet Bomber meaty (the timing on this is very lenient, just make sure it's active before they wake up). Then call Merry Go-Rilla exactly as they wake up. This should lead to an unblockable, and whichever move hits, follow up with otg c.LK s.MK f.HP to reset the situation. whatever combo you like.

If Mike wanted to eliminate these setups, I would suggest this rule : when a command grab whiffs on a character in pre-jump, that character can block both high and low by holding back and can't be put into pre-block for the remainder of pre-jump (and they are also un-Excellebella-ble for the rest of that jump :^). This fits the pattern set by the unblockable protection system. It acknowledges that you made the correct defensive choice, then grants you a brief window of immunity. Also, jumping techable throws does not need to invoke this protection, just like mid attacks don't invoke unblockable protection, because they don't force one defensive option.

tl;dr Merry Go-Rilla, otg c.LK s.MK f.HP, call Hornet Bomber, repeat
Titan Knuckle, Call Hornet Bomber, Merry Go-Rilla
 
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Aren't wakeups completely invul. though?
 
You can't cause sliding knockdowns if you used your otg.

Or has the rule changed for some reason?
 
Went back and tested this again, you're right. The sliding knockdown is techable after you use your otg.
Thank you for the correction.
 
This is so weird.

Wouldn't PB'ing the Butt take you out of the mixup, not even chicken guard, just pb?

Someone needs a video for this.
 
The quality is awful but hooopefully you can see what's going on.
You may want to reupload, it jumps around and the important parts. Unless you say you did this on purpose (can't hear where I am currently)
 

Second try, this time with windows update actually finished.
 
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Second try, this time with windows update actually finished.
Thank you. What about neutral jump immediately to block? Didn't seem like you tried that in the video, nor do I know if taht's feasible.
 
Thank you. What about neutral jump immediately to block? Didn't seem like you tried that in the video, nor do I know if taht's feasible.

I tried that third in the video, I got hit before I left the ground.
 
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Thanks for making that video Age!

And I have found a couple more setups, starring Squigly. You can set up the sliding knockdown with lvl 1 Liver Mortis.

The first is for an easy at-home demonstration.

Meaty Assist + Daisy Pusher

The timing on this one is so lenient it's ridiculous. Daisy Pusher has by far the most active frames of any command grab in the game, so pair it up with Hornet Bomber/Cere-copter/Hairball/whatever you want (custom assists baby!) and you've got an easy peasy unblockable set up that you can learn in a couple of minutes.

This one has a weird property that if they don't jump the grab, they will get hit by your assist on the way to the grave, and then get thrown.

(Sorry I didn't tell you about this one sooner Age, I was typing this comment when your second video appeared. Also, you don't have to call the assist precisely, it works if you call it meaty.)

Command Grab Assist + Squigly Battle Opera

SBO is a projectile. It doesn't cause pre-block, so the opponent doesn't get throw protection until they're in blockstun. It has lots of active frames, so timing it is easy.
The command grab needs to be timed more carefully. Note that if you practice the command grab timing on its own it will whiff in this setup. SBO puts the defender in hitstop (but not the assist) so their wake-up timing is later than usual.

This is a neat setup because you can use it with any character's projectiles, or you can set up DHC followups. I haven't tested them, but think Peacock's Argus Agony or Parasoul's Level 3 (as a starter or a DHC).
 
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With the beta changes now real, I guess now's a good time to start talking in this thread again.
MDE was great, Olive Edition (temporary name) is still fun. Combos are shorter, heavy counter hit combos are MDE combos, person getting attacked gets less meter... it's fun.
 
With the beta changes now real, I guess now's a good time to start talking in this thread again.
MDE was great, Olive Edition (temporary name) is still fun. Combos are shorter, heavy counter hit combos are MDE combos, person getting attacked gets less meter... it's fun.

Sounds like it's time to jump on PC then!
 
So Filia's jHK has a "fixed" hitbox to make it hit more consistently. I know how you Filia players have trouble hitting with jHK.
 
Did Feint Ringlet improve enough where it can be a viable psych out tool?
 
Did Feint Ringlet improve enough where it can be a viable psych out tool?
I think it's more that it lowers filia's hurtbox enough to avoid the burst. Cerebella's cMP can also do that, but not as low to the ground as the filia one.
 
On the Psych discussion, it actually improves her pressure game.

5HK is now good to catch early pushblock. 5HK xx ringlet Psych seems to only be punishable by Fenrir. Fenrir is 2 frames right? If 5HP is -2, I think 5HK xx ringlet Psych seems to be about -3.

It isn't strictly safe and if you try to keep pressure after you will be at risk, but 5HK obviously has substantial range, allowing both for safer blockstrings from out of 5HP range and to keep pressure up if they pushblock early, but with correct timing.

2MP is safER as well, but still punishable by lights.
 
So... Encore. Thoughts?

  • 240 Undizzy feels okay for Painwheel/Double. Doesn't feel like anything changed.
  • For other characters, it really feels like it cut down on the number of possible reset points in the longer customized combos and people are being pushed to reset way earlier and more often. That's cool.
  • Not enjoying the momentum granted by 1v1 downs' life retention.
  • Disappointed it's SGE and not ODE.
 
I'm enjoying the little time i'm able to spend on the current game. My boyfriend is kind of picky with what fighting games he feels like playing for the day so I usually don't have anyone to spar with. Since i'm not very good I can't say I can't say I have the honor of requesting someone to practice against either.

Don't sweat it. Just start up a beginner lobby or hop in IRC and ask if everyone in there if they're up for a match.

There's also a lot of good resources in the character forums if you want to practice in the training room, and great match-making resources in the online play forums, like Steam groups, online casuals, etc.
 
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Not a fan of the stage 3 undizzy build thing. Is 240 undizzy with stage 5 no good? ;__;

also idk if people have noticed this but when I kill someone and hit the dead body to move them closer towards the wall it continues to increase undizzy. Can that not happen pls?
 
+1 for not wanting undizzy to count up for dead bodies. Doesn't make much sense. I still don't like it sticking around for the incoming character but that's not going away so oh well.
 
+1 for not wanting undizzy to count up for dead bodies. Doesn't make much sense. I still don't like it sticking around for the incoming character but that's not going away so oh well.

I was actually on the side of the stricter IPS (though I like the new one fine).

But I agree with you on both parts. Undizzy on the dead is dumb, and undizzy on incoming characters is unintuitive (though I understand the why).
 
I wanted to make a thread for this... But... Er naw. I'll just ask the question:

What moves give untechable knockdown in sg? The reason is because untechables should give EVERY character a left/right untechable mixup.

So far all I know off the top of my head are. Peacocks throw, Bella's and doubles titan knuckle, parasouls sniper super.

I've just been putting together in my mind some creative uses for these to get 50/50 left right mixups... But I wonder how many more moves give untechable knockdown? And that's where you guys come in... Can we list as many untechable knockdowns as possible? This may be an untapped market for really good assist left/rights, or setup for a point character to give its own left/right.
 
stuf
Pretty sure every character except Filia has a sliding or crumple move.
 
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ztuf
Filia: N/A
Fortune: HK axe kick (on airborne characters)
Cerebella: Titan Knuckle
Double: Fugazi Knuckle
Val: Third hit of st.HK
Squigly: Liver Mortis
Parasoul: N/A (Sniper shot is a crumple, though)
Painwheel: Air MK Buer during Hatred Install
Peacock: Grab
Big Band: One of his rush punches, can't remember which one. I think it's HP?

Well, these are all sliding knockdowns anyways.
 
pw also has charge hp although you'll never see that in combos, but she does have a sweep burst bait that is untechable and very easy to set up.
 
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pw also has charge hp although you'll never see that in combos, but she does have a sweep burst bait that is untechable and very easy to set up.
What's the setup for the sweep burst bait into untechable?
 
Use st.hk, restand, end it with stinger > sweep > fly. Usually if you do stinger with the chain right after the restand they're far enough where the sweep>fly avoids the burst easily.
 
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That's awesome.

Now I'm wondering how to setup the left/right to be as ambiguous as possible... What I'd like is for the crossup to make reversal mashes not come out... Ie if they reversal forward but I crossup they get their inputs reversed and nothing but a normal comes out.


I'm going to try and develop these myself, the painwheel burst bait you mentioned looks great because since painwheel does it herself without an assist, then she can use an assist while flying for the crossup and possibly protect herself with charged j.hp in case the opponent does happen to perfectly time a reversal against the meaty assist and crossed up painwheel... Looks like it might be very powerful, for her at least if the timing and ambiguity can be mastered.

So after that it's onto parasoul... Her untechable is easy to setup... But I'm having trouble getting An ambiguous left/right from it... Any suggestions?

What I've been trying is scope super> dash plus hk hairball assist, jump forward (this is a dash jump and crosses up) or dash plus assist and do a neutral jump to fake the crossup.. But the problem is that I can't convert from hairball from there (neutral jump) in most cases... Any suggestions?
 
So... I don't know where to ask this question in a more tech spot, so I'll just ask it here:

Where do I input

-psdriverhack ???

My damn controllers sticks are no longer registering and I just went through a whole lot of frustrating button shenanigans to get it mostly back to normal.

I just have no idea how to use computers outside of surfing the net/double clicking on programs... So could someone help... PLS!?
 
So... I don't know where to ask this question in a more tech spot, so I'll just ask it here:

Where do I input

-psdriverhack ???

My damn controllers sticks are no longer registering and I just went through a whole lot of frustrating button shenanigans to get it mostly back to normal.

I just have no idea how to use computers outside of surfing the net/double clicking on programs... So could someone help... PLS!?

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1040-JWMT-2947

Make sure to include the hyphen.

Let me know if those steps don't work (just need the ones under "Set Launch Options".
 
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Sigh.... So I just played against the first thing that I REALLY felt was op in skullgirls.. I've played against wingzero, worldjem, shin at proof, negus eyoel, mmds, tood.... Etc etc

And this is the first thing where I was really scratching my head in disbelief... That doesn't mean that this IS op.. Just... Sigh I really have no words:

Ages new Bella team.

Bella/double with cilia slide.

Ok so first the "op" shit
Diamonds are forever super (her windmill lvl 1 super) xx cats. This is completely braindead. Nothing against age at all cause HIS PLAY isn't braindead. But Jesus if this strat isn't... So basically. Once he gets 2 levels he can pbgc into that super or simply wakeup super or whatever into that reversal, if it's blocked he dhcs into double and gets free pressure, if it hits he gets full combo from f+hp xx cilia slide dash forward cr.mp cr.hp etc etc

So that's that, it's extremely hard to bait cause the hugeness of it and it completely obliterates anything stuck out cause of hitstop. So basically all one needs to use this is 2 levels, see the opponent close to them in an attacking stance and bam this is good to go. No need to fuss over hit or block or airborn or ground or even near or far to some extent.

It's basically exactly like sf4 reversal AFDC but with way easier meter requirements and waaay more range and way more damage and plus on block...

Ok so on to the next:

Bella is killing me midscreen with one reset off of just about any starter diamond drop, or merry go rilla, or assist confirm, or excelebella because cilia slide makes all of those conversions into full combo midscreen 2v2 at 1.0 ratio.

Excelebella xx super, f+hp otg xx cilia slide, dash cr.mp,cr.hp full combo.

Basically any super goes into full combo now.

Anyways it also goes from double to Bella, car xx Bella super, f+hp otg xx cilia slide full combo into another super into another car or cats super etc etc etc.

This whole time I'm thinking where is this undizzy? Why does Bella still gain so much meter? Why does Bella still do 10 k for basically nothing? And now she also gets to convert from diamond drop and excelebella at midscreen.
This wouldn't feel so bad if it weren't for the fact that Bella has stupid priority as well, one of the best dash jumps in the game, a double jump, a command run and a glide. I really don't feel like this characters movement options and priority are balanced with her damage, meter gain, and reversals which are among the best.

Out of all of Bella's movement options the worst one is by far her ground dash, yes it sucks. But what else of her movement sucks? I feel like she either needs to lose her double jump cause it gives her already ridiculous priority, even more priority. Or she needs to lose some of that momentum on her dash jump cause its a dash jump that goes just as far as any other characters, and it has some of the best aerial attacks in the game on it...



Sigh... Anyways... I got sidetracked once again.


My point isn't so much that Bella needs nerfing, so much as what do I do to contain this character? Playing defensive seems useless with her dash jump and dash empty jump having so much range, I can't out prioritize her up close, I can't put her in any consistent blockstun cause she will just reversal out via pbgc into qcf super.

I can't really use projectiles against her cause she just reflects them all back at me... So I'm at a loss as to how to take her on....

And yes she does seem to have that super fei long syndrome... Everyone else gets a nerfed a bit, but she gets buffed and those things that are already good with her (her meter gain, her priority, her damage) just go overboard.

I'm probably bias cause I main painwheel against her... But I'm just confused right now about an overall strategy to use against her... Nothing seems to work.
 
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snip for sanity sake

I fought his team while he was using that assist as well. The main thing you need to realise is you have to play against it differently, he is playing reversal girls with this team and the risk reward is HEAVILY in his favour whenever he has meter.

The drawback is he lacks lockdown and a neutral assist. I'm still adjusting to this team too, but I find that you want to get him to blow his meter and DO NOT RESET BELLA ON THE GROUND AT ALL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Don't force unsafe pressure, be careful with what you think is safe pressure, as you said, PBGC dynamo in your face isn't fun when it leads to basically a guaranteed dead character.

Be careful about Age's j.LKs as well when you go to reset him, don't use slow resets and be aware that if you are UNDER him you need to be accounting for this thing in your setup.

Just keep the game at neutral and don't get overzealous with your offense against this team, when he's out of meter he is practically playing a solo, so that's your chance to go nuts.

I noticed that, compared to his old team. Double anchor is significantly LESS scary as he rarely tends to have a lot of meter left over, obviously he still kills you quick if he gets the hit, but solo Double with not much meter is much more manageable than most vs Age matchups.
 
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