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I Want to Play the Way Pros Play!

Skull Girls doesn't have pro players. I think it needed to be mentioned again. >_>
 
WrestlerGuile said:
I have an announcement of my pledge:
I have been attempting to learn the different tricks and every thing else in Skullgirls and I want to officially say that I will never-ever ask for nerfs or buffs ever! I will learn how to play this game an adjust to whatever I see that's new. I promise!
Indeed, I too follow the no complain philosophy I'm glad to see you determined to learn
 
I will contribute my 5 cents.

Don't do solo vs solo to practice a matchup because in a real match, you will have assists and your opponent will have assists. The only thing solo vs solo will help is if they are both your anchors and you are practicing a 1v1 matchup. But this does not emulate a real matchup with assits/snapbacks/lockouts/assist bait etc...

If you know you have no combos, go to training mode and practice until you do have combos (and enders). What playing an opponent does is increase your character experience and knowledge. You will learn that this move is safe here against this opponent, or this move is bad if he has this assist. But you shouldn't be playing here until have some basic combos or basic foundation of the game.

I wrote a really long article on how "advanced players" get gud but I think it got deleted when the forums purged.

Training mode should be your best friend until you are ready for matchup experience. I know it sucks, I know its tedious, but its something every player has to do. No one learns a combo in a middle of a match. You might accidentally learn a reset or learn that certain combos don't work on certain characters, but you are not going to learn a combo unless you had a basic foundation.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Not true, I do all the time. MOST people won't, though.
I usually learn "wait, that comboed!!??" Then I go in training mode and build off it. I guess it's sorta the same thing.


Okay, *exceptions apply*. You might learn a combo in a match but it's not the most optimal way.
 
Old games didn't have training mode, right?

One of the things I consider important is to use a real match as a training opportunity, focus less on winning/losing and on teaching yourself while mid-match, and make personal challenges on a match. I'll only AA, won't use anything with meter, I'll try to block every mixup right/left, etc... This will become valuable information for you in the future.
 
Mwisk said:
Old games didn't have training mode, right?

One of the things I consider important is to use a real match as a training opportunity, focus less on winning/losing and on teaching yourself while mid-match, and make personal challenges on a match. I'll only AA, won't use anything with meter, I'll try to block every mixup right/left, etc... This will become valuable information for you in the future.
Print out combos from internet
Start game
plug in 2nd controller
select 2 player
practice alone


:P
 
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Yeah, vs mode with an empty 2p controller was training mode.

Also, learning new combo routes mid-match isn't that difficult, tbh. It may not be optimal, but it gives you ideas to build on later that you may not get from guides, videos or forum posts.
 
I didn't had a neogeo, actually now that I think about it, none had one where I lived back then. o_O It was like that magical console for the snk people.

BTW keep in mind that I wasn't contesting anything you said mmds, just adding a comment on what Mike said. I was thinking more of an arcade situation back then.
 
I realized why I'm not truly improving in Skullgirls...
I'm always playing in Quick Mode, which I once denounced, but then I continued to play it anyway, and I saw I lost multiple times. Why? Because I was simply not ready. I realized how scared and afraid I would be before a match and this affected my game and my psyche. I would never do what I set out to do like trying to reset by grabbing, reset in general, or even finish a combo. I realized that I sucked in Quick Match becasue I wasn't ready for it. I was too damn ambitious and I feel to the ground when the gravity of reality attracted me. I raged so hard because I was extremely frustrated, and the salt was so bad it got to the point where my heart actually began to feel it. So, out of frustration, I quit Quick Match(but I did not ragequit:)

I found that I was trying to reject who I really am. I am a beginner, this is why I made this thread. I'm now weening off Quick Match in place of Beginner Mode where I fit best. I have even found a player who is looking for the right character to play, and he/she stated he/she was interested in starting with Peacock, which can probably mean all sorts of trouble, but I recommended practicing her zoning applications first, and I told him/her to look into Skullheart, which he/she has never heard of.

I will rise higher and higher to the top. But I do have a plan first. I will solo each character I want to main, then when I'm comfortable, I will use them both when the time is right.
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I learned something about Painwheel and her reset capabilities: j.HP, fly, QCF. K; this reset is capable of making Painwheel move to the other side and hit-grab the opponent but this hasn't been fully tested.
Resets not to try: s.MK, jump, wait, grab; this is not easy at all, and requires tall or light characters, and even then her air grab is like a whiff to me. Even worse is s.HK, this one is not possible AT ALL.
Parasoul is someone I'm trying to main as well, but I have nothing to elaborate for now.
 
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If you won all the time the game would get stale real fast.The only reason i can play decently is because some of the combo notations remind me of musical intervals.Painwheel is peacock's worst nightmare beside bigband and cerebella :/
 
Tourney Journey #1: Painwheel
What I want to learn: Reset options, the right moments to use Hatred Guard, how to uses to Hatred Install correctly, when to use fly, when to retract in time for overheads and anti airs while using fly, how to properly use her other tools, and how to do ground chains. I remember a Painwheel thread I made which some Painwheel mains showed me how the ground chain works, but I can't execute it so well, but I've been practicing, so I will get better at this.
Beating the Cock:
How do I get close to a Peacock that zones with assists that poke very far? When I attempt to weave though her H George, somethings falling to the ground, so how to get close and stay patient all at once? How I will try this: don't use fly, and practice the super jump and block all the way though, but don't pushblock because that's exactly what she wants, unless she's cornered. Luckily, her Item Drop will actually propel you forward when you block it but what about when you don't? Learn to grab and don't be afraid. Know how far your grab will go, and DO NOT RESET-GRAB after launching the opponent because the timing is extremely tight, especially with Parasoul weight characters and up, but only grab if your opponent jumped. Always press the grab in the air when you're close to the opponent because chances are they won't expect this too much unless you do it too much. Since you're a beginner, don't practice more elaborate resets too much and try basic resets before going to elaborate ones.
 
MegamanDS said:
Don't do solo vs solo to practice a matchup because in a real match, you will have assists and your opponent will have assists. The only thing solo vs solo will help is if they are both your anchors and you are practicing a 1v1 matchup. But this does not emulate a real matchup with assits/snapbacks/lockouts/assist bait etc...
I understand what you're saying, solo vs solo is not good for simulation. However, I think its better to use a solo in any matchups to learn how your character works and isolate your training and practices on this one character. Then going from character to character, then learning how to apply both of your characters in a battle. I've heard its a shitty idea to have a character just to use as an assist because your main would get killed in a fight and you would stop knowing what to do with your anchor.
I wrote a really long article on how "advanced players" get gud but I think it got deleted when the forums purged.
I don't want to be a bother, but do you remember what your article said and thread it on SH? If you want to, of course.
 
It's pretty sad that I only get weekends to practice what I need to because of school and everything. So what I will do is fit as much practice as I can to help myself and practice with my new beginning practice partner. I do have an intresting question: Is it a good idea to ever start off with Peacock? She seems like a very intricate character to handle. This is what my partner wants to start with.
 
the one thing i would recommend if EVER comes from a fighting game i've always hated...that's street fighter. know your neutral. How? by learning your character(which will take some time). yes its by far the best position for peacock since with assist she can keep you at fullscreen. also learn the range of your moves. c lk from painwheel catches me at times when i thought i pushblocked her.
 
Ah yes, the neutral! I forgot that I needed to learn this in my posts. What is a neutral? Is it when you're trying to get into your opponents face, but you have to think of a way to keep an opponent out of your face, and you have to think of a way to get in a combo all at once?
 
WrestlerGuile said:
Ah yes, the neutral! I forgot that I needed to learn this in my posts. What is a neutral? Is it when you're trying to get into your opponents face, but you have to think of a way to keep an opponent out of your face, and you have to think of a way to get in a combo all at once?
hm..... well to be more exact

neutral is when both players have certain amount of space between them. the goal of neutral is to control space. whoever controls space the best will get in and either get the opportunity to pressure or even land a combo.
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
hm..... well to be more exact

neutral is when both players have certain amount of space between them. the goal of neutral is to control space. whoever controls space the best will get in and either get the opportunity to pressure or even land a combo.
So the best neutrals for Painwheel are s.MK, s.HK to fly(what I do), c.LK, c,MK, c.HK, c.MP, c.HP, j.MK, j.HK, j.MP, j.HP, and fly and unfly to an extent. So, all good neutrals are more like pokes, so Parasoul would have many pokes.
 
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well, "neutrals" aren't a thing but you did list lots good tools to be used in the neutral game.

It's good you mentioned fly and unfly as tools in the neutral game, because movement is absolutely the most important aspect of the neutral game. Timing and spacing in regards to placing normals can potentially be more important and potent than the properties of the normals themselves - movement is the key thing that helps you time and space your normals and position yourself correctly, and that is why Painwheel has fly, because even though her normals aren't spectacular, she can position herself into the perfect places to use them.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
all i know about painwheel is that j mp is so so gud.....
Now I get it! When used, it has a long wide hit box and could easily hit any grounded opponent, even Peacock :^).

Also, I'm getting much better with Painwheel! Doing her solo-style has made me know her better. My resets are much more variable and I have seen my progress, but I will do more self-study before making my official statement. But, for now, all I need to work on for now is my combos with Painwheel.

I have a question about the difficulty: Is it more difficult to fight in Nightmare Mode or is it harder to fight a real person?
 
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Fighting a real person is always way harder than any solo mode
And it makes you learn something way more often
 
You need to become one with the game. You need to achieve a zen like state that you play to the best of your ability no matter the circumstance (hungry, sick, tired, etc). To achieve this state you must not be afraid of losing, if anything you should embrace it. Start playing to learn instead of to win and you'll find a whole new perspective on playing, fun. You'll find confidence in yourself even if things aren't going your way. Use this as a mental wall to hold you through lose streaks and encouragement to keep persevering to improve. Once you have lost everything, do you truly gain everything.

Michael-Jordan-Quote.jpg
 
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I'm a bit if beginner but I would be willing to help if want I'm on PSN and XBL I can help you with some training and such
 
One thing to produce good results is master your characters movement and practice offensive blocking.
Offensive blocking means when you're in neutral you jump in towards your opponent only instead of attacking in the air you hold on block to bait an attack or assist you can counter. Many players using DP assists will see a jump-in as an opportunity to hit you with their DP assist. Even if you block the assist the opponent point character may still have a chance to rush in while you're blocking and keep attacking to keep you blocking- putting them in the offensive advantage. Something I see many people do is empty-jump block in to bait assist, then when the opponent calls their assist out call yours in right after. This could punish their assist and keep their point character from advancing towards you forcing you into block. You might even get to hit both their assist and their point, hopefully leading to a full combo on both.
Another way to use your assist is to force your opponent to block so your point can rush in with mixup / crossovers. An example of this as Painwheel is as follows: You go in as point and attack, but they're blocking. On the last hit of your blockstring (usually a medium or heavy attack) call out an assist at the same time as your final attack. When the opponent is blocking your point they will likely continue blocking the assist, but you can flight cancel your recovery and either fly to the other side of them while they're still blocking for a crossover, or attack from above while they're blocking low for a mixup. This is best done with a lockdown / multihit assist so your opponent doesn't have an opportunity to punish you while you fly to your setup. Other characters have their own tools for safely calling assists during blockstrings. Practice safely calling assists both for offensive and defensive purposes.

Also of major importance is mastering HOW to get your character to move around as quickly as possible. I don't remember if the tutorial covers this, but there is a jump option that the pros take advantage of: Dash-cancel-to-jump. In practice mode try going fullscreen distance and see how far a regular jump forward takes you. Now, go back fullscreen and try this: dash (with two punches) and immediately command to jump forward. This might take a little bit of practice but you should get a jump that goes much further at a slightly different arc than regular jump, yet doesn't have the restrictions of a superjump (can still call assist, airdash and double jump)

One great way to learn how to play like the pros is to actively watch the pros play, try to understand what they do and why they do it. Duckator has a channel on twitch.tv where he uploads video of himself playing with real-time joystick inputs so you can see exactly what he's doing with his joystick while playing. You'll notice a lot of holding back during neutral (even when advancing forward) and blocking while being combo'd in case of resets.
Here's one of his videos- you can find more under the 'videos' tab http://www.twitch.tv/duckator/b/525674996
This can be a mentally exhausting game with everything going on at once, but keep at it and it can be pretty enjoyable.
 
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So I have played with Painwheel enough for now. I'm doing even better with her than before. So, for now, my new focus is on Parasoul, but she's much less comfortable for me. I don't know how I won any matches with her, she just seems so jump in-dependent. One thing I've been practicing were her Napalm Shot chains, but they don't seem to connect very well, and I've been trying to apply her j.MK to good use but it seems hard to use correctly, and the worst for me is trying out her ground grab. Her air grab is easy, but her ground grab hit box is so small, that it seems I can't use it. Luckily for me I am well-antiquated with B.j.LK, but resets are still hard to use.
 
For me, I actually wouldn't say Parasoul is so jump in dependent. As an expert Parasoul player she has many ways to get in like her napalms shots and tosses. A really good block string that I use is c.lk, c.mk, s.hp(1), lk napalm shot then dash c.lk, sb.hk, egret cancel. Parasoul can a very tricky, high pressured character. And when you say that she is jump in dependent, you could just do j.lp, it's a very useful normal of hers that keeps opponents from jumping non-stop and from grabbing (well, most of the time.) If you need any help/advice etc. please, ask me. I wouldn't mind. :D

Oh and for connecting her napalm shot links, when in a combo use LK napalm shot instead then make a quick delay and you can connect any of her light or medium attacks, but medium attacks seem to be harder to connect for some reason. I don't know why.
 
WrestlerGuile said:
So I have played with Painwheel enough for now. I'm doing even better with her than before. So, for now, my new focus is on Parasoul, but she's much less comfortable for me. I don't know how I won any matches with her, she just seems so jump in-dependent. One thing I've been practicing were her Napalm Shot chains, but they don't seem to connect very well, and I've been trying to apply her j.MK to good use but it seems hard to use correctly, and the worst for me is trying out her ground grab. Her air grab is easy, but her ground grab hit box is so small, that it seems I can't use it. Luckily for me I am well-antiquated with B.j.LK, but resets are still hard to use.

Do you mean jump-in dependent? If so, yeah it's king of true, but it's not her only option. As noted, she can also get in fairly well with dash in clk-bHK for an overhead with pretty good range on the ground, which you can mixup with low blockstrings as well. Napalm Shot loops are just something you'll need to practice till you have down, but if it helps I think it's easiest to just try it with LP Shot -> Jab if you need to remind yourself of the timing, since Jab is the easiest to link into.

Movement with jMK is...complicated, but the shorthand tip I can give you if you are starting out is that it is useful to cover fullscreen distance if you use it with super jump, and you cna do that either to run away or get in close.

And yeah, her ground grab isn't that great, but it is sitll a grab and is fairly useful if you use it at the right times. The easiest timing is, after you do some air combo chain that ends in jHK, you'll be close enough to just grab for a reset. You can also jump in with jLP, and if it is blocked and not pushblocked, you can just grab for a tick throw. The key is to find the right timings for when you are close enough to land the grabs.
 
So I've thought about this idea for a long-ass time and I've decided to main every single character, but thankfully, I'm not in such a rush!
So in order from highest priority to "you'll have to wait a while" is:
My faves:
Painwheel
Parasoul-have to find amazing reset skills
Fukua-to prepare for using zoning characters

The harder to use ones for me:
Cerebella-I have to learn how to use grapplers sometime.
Squigly-Stancels are quite hard to use for now
Big Band-Have to properly use Sound Stun, learn to use taunt (on a pad), already antiquated with MP super.
Peacock-Learning to apply both of her rushdown and zoning techniques without an assist, getting in those rejumps, learning the George chain.

The easiest ones are last:
Filia-She's the easiest to deal with in rushdown
Valentine-she's easy to, but rumors has it she isn't so good all alone but I'll find a way to optimize her.
Ms. Fortune-being able to apply the head-on and head-off approach, using her DP and using it right by being able to react with her air follow up.
Lastly, Double-Since she's a mix between my easiest characters and my harder characters.
 
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Update: So I wanted to ask how do I be the Jack of All Trades without being mediocre with all of my characters or will come to me naturally?

Also,
I had a combo idea for Parasoul when I thought I was good with her: You would hit the opponent with an air combo, use some Napalm Tears and launch the opponent. You would use a combo on them in the air with the tear out then let the tear burst during j.MK, using the Mary Poppins, and combo higher in the air using a mix between j.MK and d.jMK. (This was actually an inspiration for the Hype Combo thread I made)

A combo that I've been using successfully: Using s.HK then jumping and using B.j.LK and continuing from there with a low or medium (which is what I've actually been using).
 
Go ahead try out all the characters- the more you know about them and their options, the better you can anticipate your opponents moves when you're playing against said character. Familiarity helps a lot. Learning how characters act offensively will help determine if the opponent is giong for an assist cover, mixups, crossovers, invincible moves... The more you know...
 
Actually, now, I will pay more attention to Painwheel. I had 20+ matches with @Balder, who stated it took guts to use Solowheel and it took even more guts to use her Hatred Guard mechanic. To be honest, I've used this much more extensively than I expected and I've learned this can get you out of trouble and is fun to use, but sometimes it'll get me into trouble, and some people expect me to use it so they block the entire time. Sweeps are good to use with her and her hit-grabs make things unexpected for my opponents. Even my combos have gotten better. All I need to work on now is her resets, which for now I rarely use in place of jump-ins. I guess I have the Jumpinitus and the only way to get rid of it is LVL3! JK, bus seriously, LVL3 is very effective and is much better than ground LVL1, and the air LVL1 is so much better because it's her only LVL1 which can be followed by more combo chains.
 
Things have changed for the better for little Carol but I still recall when Solowheel was widely regarded as the bottom tier choice. Of course, in the context of Skullgirls that doesn't mean much and means even less for my lowly play level.
As for Hatred Guard, just from my meager experience facings PWs, few make use of it, let alone that extensively. It's a big gamble, especially when you throw it out in disregard of the opponent's actions. As you might have noticed, at some point, I started to "wise up" and use delayed Napalms in the block strings and s.HPx2 to stuff your approaches.

Keep at it. At least judging by the consistency with which you perform your bnb, execution looks like something you won't struggle heavily with.
 
WrestlerGuile said:
.So in all, I won 2 out of 30+ MATCHES.

The first time I did games with a good kof player it ended at like 5-130. And I wouldn't even consider it being a beating.

If you do a wrong choice, remember it, because that means either your opponent will press on it, or he will do the counter of your counter. Either way that make him kinda predictable, you're creating a mind game's history, by doing this you're speaking to him saying either what work what doesn't and how he should play.

If you're afraid of choosing you've already lost.
 
One question about Painwheel: How do you do the ground combos with the qcf.K chain? I've been trying this one out, but the mistake I seem to be making is j.LK, resets, s. or c. LK. Am I always supposed to use a higher power normal after the jumping attacks or can I actually connect two lows?
 
WrestlerGuile said:
One question about Painwheel: How do you do the ground combos with the qcf.K chain? I've been trying this one out, but the mistake I seem to be making is j.LK, resets, s. or c. LK. Am I always supposed to use a higher power normal after the jumping attacks or can I actually connect two lows?
fly j. lk you hold forward during fly.
fly k. lp lk you hold upforward during fly
never hold down forward
 
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If you want to know the things most people need to work on that are mid level in this game (I'm absolutely included in this group) here they are (in no particular order except footsies which is obviously the most important thing):

1. Neutral game/footsies
2. Assist calls: when to call assists and when NOT to call assists
3. Pressure strings/maintaining pressure on the opponent, and what is actually a good pressure string versus saying to the opponent "please kill me with a DP assist"
4. Incoming Character Mixups
5. Resets and burst baits

These are all more important than having optimal combos (although those are important too). If a player has these but still doesn't have the most optimal combos, they will win.

I think way more people put more emphasis on combos than anything else, the other stuff is way more important.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
If you want to know the things most people need to work on that are mid level in this game (I'm absolutely included in this group) here they are (in no particular order except footsies which is obviously the most important thing):

1. Neutral game/footsies
2. Assist calls: when to call assists and when NOT to call assists
3. Pressure strings/maintaining pressure on the opponent, and what is actually a good pressure string versus saying to the opponent "please kill me with a DP assist"
4. Incoming Character Mixups
5. Resets and burst baits

These are all more important than having optimal combos (although those are important too). If a player has these but still doesn't have the most optimal combos, they will win.

I think way more people put more emphasis on combos than anything else, the other stuff is way more important.
the ones are bolded lemme explain.

work on not calling assist when she's bleeding half way Kappa
resets is a yes....burst baits....work on finding the burst baits that STILL allow you oki, corner carry, etc.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
the ones are bolded lemme explain.

work on not calling assist when she's bleeding half way Kappa
resets is a yes....burst baits....work on finding the burst baits that STILL allow you oki, corner carry, etc.

I agree, I think OKI/corner carry/not giving up the corner is all under what constitutes good pressure though. Why do I give up the corner so much ;_;
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
I agree, I think OKI/corner carry/not giving up the corner is all under what constitutes good pressure though. Why do I give up the corner so much ;_;
also to add you need to know which resets works on which character and what reset to use.

for example try a reset on filia in the air? lol get combo'd mashed.
try filia cross over'd? will work

reset bella on ground? get 360'd

reset para on ground get flamed on! etc etc etc.
 
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