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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

The Dave said:
I just figured Ravi takes to Neogaf and Mike Z take to Twitter because that's their preferred social media stomping grounds. If that's where they are anyway, that's where they'll be.
Well, yeah, I feel like Ravi's sitting on NeoGAF frequently anyways and that's why he posts there. Mike actually visits Skullheart but he's not very fond of stupid questions and speculations (especially when he's not able to reveal any details to cut those off) and I would assume he is quite busy with actual making of the game considering it's entering production stage now.
 
Since I only found out about Indivisible a couple months ago and haven't gone through the updates yet, I'm behind on things...
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This is everything I ever needed. Look at her stubby widdle feet~ (okay they look a little weird)
 
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Are you god? If not Toko can't be your waifu.
 
Gentlemen.

You know there's room for 3 right?

Toko and Leilani are both excellent waifu material.
 
We're basically there! I hope once we hit it we hear sippets and previews of dialogue during development.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
On the one hand I would like somebody to engage with us regularly. On the other hand we will probably pester said person to no end.
If you flip back and start from the beginning, you're quickly reminded that most of this thread was the "Pester Mike Thread." VP1 vs. VP2 discussion, palette swap concerns, along with pages and pages about Item Shops, and that was before the Prototype came out!

But no doubt when we're closer to another playable build, they'll hang out a bit to see what we think. Watching us slowly uncover those Prototype secrets must have been a lot of fun for them.
 
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@Tank I feel like toko needs a down to earth human to keep her company for the mean time.
@ArgonBern More than one waifu will fuck up your laifu- you know the rules.

Boi i can wait til the next Money Tally- we are in there bois
 
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She has bags under her eyes from not getting enough sleep! Perfect!

But... I know I'm pretty late to this, but I want to talk about Sangmu and the reaction that people had to her. I'll skim through this thread at some point, but for now I'm skimming through the NeoGAF thread and I'm seeing a desire for her to be treated as having aspergers, even though that wasn't the initial thought.

As someone with high-functioning autism, I feel like people often make assumptions about what this stuff is, and that Sangmu's bio would feed those assumptions. Never speaking, being intensely focused and extremely skilled... I have never met anyone like that. Of course, bear in mind that I am just one individual in this category, but this seems like the most popular interpretation of "exceptional person with aspergers." Especially since Sangmu's bio also indicates that she's the type of person who would collapse if left to her own devices.

But there is one character I can look to for this. Pokemon Adventures has a character who's not confirmed to have it, but there are hints that he does: Diamond. Diamond has a comedy routine with his best friend Pearl, he plays the funny guy to Pearl's straight-man. He makes puns all the time. He's a good cook, able to concentrate on making food and all, but that's not treated as a dominating aspect of him. He is able and willing to communicate with others, he's just really laid-back, and in fact, the reason I have trouble finding the depth to the Sinnoh protagonists in Adventures is because Diamond and Platina are less expressive than the other protagonists (speaking of which, Platina may also qualify for this). It's not until a fair ways into the Sinnoh story arc, when Diamond is sent to train with a more experienced trainer, that we learn Diamond is a bit slow. Literally. He takes longer to send everything through his head and reach a decision. He prefers slow, tough pokemon that give him time to make decisions in battle. Once some random internet comment pointed it out, I instantly connected all the dots with my own traits much more than any character labeled with it.
 
Token handicap characters never work. I understand SOMEWHERE there is a character with those problems done well, but those made specifically to have them end up all the same: "HI I'M X I HAVE [handicap] LOOK HOW REPRESENTATIVE I AM OF THOSE WITH [handicap]!"

And that becomes their only defining trait; nothing else, they're THE ALMIGHTY HANDICAPPED CHARACTER.

Respectful, isn't it?

I understand L0 will do what they want to do, but no wonder NeoGAF made such a shitty suggestion in the name of inclusivity. They sure are fucking clever.
 
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ArgonBern said:
HI I'M X I HAVE [handicap] LOOK HOW REPRESENTATIVE I AM OF THOSE WITH [handicap]!
I find this tends to be a problem with "representation" in fiction in general. It's very hard to avoid making "whatever social awareness issue" come across as a "very special episode," preachy and un-fun. I've been a little concerned, but I figured there wasn't much point in bringing it up.

Hypothetical Me said:
"Lab Zero, you're going to write this thing well, right?"
Hypothetical Lab Zero said:
"Uh... yeah? It's not like we want to make schlock."
Me again said:
"Are you sure it'll be good? Tell me again this thing you want to be good will be good! By the way, the gameplay's going to be fun and the art assets will be pretty, right!? RIGHT!?"

Of course they're going to try to do a good job with whatever ideas they have. That's how implementing ideas works. :P

Although, come to think of it, unlocking a "Rejected Script Version" for New Game Plus would be pretty funny.
 
Ninja said:
$2,032,427

yup... we're soooooo close to getting full VO

I see Backer Kit well mostly dried up. Too bad. :(

We still should get it easly with the rate we were going with, and who knows, if we manage to get a beta this year maybe it will help get another surge.
 
ArgonBern said:
no wonder NeoGAF made such a shitty suggestion in the name of inclusivity
I haven't read the Neogaf thread, but from what I'm hearing it sounds far more like the idiotic labelling we see now where if any kid acts differently they must be autistic. I'm really not a fan of this line of thought, whether or not the character is autistic this shows more about people trying to read labels into everything than it does that character's biography, I feel. Reading Sangmu's bio, I didn't stop to consider if she had autism, it felt like a story about a reclusive child.

Source: Parent of child with autism who has had to do a lot of reading, talk to doctors, etc.
ArgonBern said:
Token handicap characters never work.
This is your response to a character supposedly being autistic?

This feels a lot like the negative reaction to homosexual characters in games. I don't understand where lines are supposed to be drawn, but this one definitely seems wrong. We know nothing about this character other than a small bio, we know nothing about how she behaves in the game or acts as part of the story. As long as she isn't handled as "OH LOOK AT ME I'M AUTISM BUT I'M A PEOPLE TOO" there is nothing wrong with this, and I highly doubt Lab Zero's writing talent is going for that. You can have autistic characters that are people who are autistic, much like you can have gay characters that are people who are gay and there is nothing wrong with that, I will fully agree that I dislike characters who are written around one entire aspect of their existence making it appear to be their only aspect, but that can be applied to anything. That's bad writing. But I think Lab Zero is likely above that, they're a team of people with multiple backgrounds, the idea that most people here didn't even know @Ravidrath was gay but think LZ are likely to write one dimensional characters for the sake of inclusiveness astounds me.

Though if you're afraid of inclusiveness as a concept for this game, I have to ask have you seen its cast? You're talking about token handicap characters being an issue because one might be autistic, did you miss the acrobatic character with no arms?

I understand why I see some knee-jerking when certain words get thrown around in game development now, but if you think this is an issue here I'm confused as to how you think that now but didn't before, perhaps I missed it.

And for the record no part of my post was trying to imply you're homophobic, it's just easy to draw parallels with those arguments/issues in this case.
 
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KaboomKid said:
If you flip back and start from the beginning, you're quickly reminded that most of this thread was the "Pester Mike Thread." VP1 vs. VP2 discussion, palette swap concerns, along with pages and pages about Item Shops, and that was before the Prototype came out!
I remember all that. I also remember Mike not liking it very much. And as I were saying and you actually pointed out - it was before they started to work on the game. I assume he had much more spare time that he has now.
 
AdenPhoenix said:
This is your response to a character supposedly being autistic?

This feels a lot like the negative reaction to homosexual characters in games. I don't understand where lines are supposed to be drawn, but this one definitely seems wrong. We know nothing about this character other than a small bio, we know nothing about how she behaves in the game or acts as part of the story. As long as she isn't handled as "OH LOOK AT ME I'M AUTISM BUT I'M A PEOPLE TOO" there is nothing wrong with this, and I highly doubt Lab Zero's writing talent is going for that. You can have autistic characters that are people who are autistic, much like you can have gay characters that are people who are gay and there is nothing wrong with that, I will fully agree that I dislike characters who are written around one entire aspect of their existence making it appear to be their only aspect, but that can be applied to anything. That's bad writing. But I think Lab Zero is likely above that, they're a team of people with multiple backgrounds, the idea that most people here didn't even know @Ravidrath was gay but think LZ are likely to write one dimensional characters for the sake of inclusiveness astounds me.

Though if you're afraid of inclusiveness as a concept for this game, I have to ask have you seen its cast? You're talking about token handicap characters being an issue because one might be autistic, did you miss the acrobatic character with no arms?

I understand why I see some knee-jerking when certain words get thrown around in game development now, but if you think this is an issue here I'm confused as to how you think that now but didn't before, perhaps I missed it.

And for the record no part of my post was trying to imply you're homophobic, it's just easy to draw parallels with those arguments/issues in this case.

I think you're overreacting. He was talking about the badly written ones, with which you agreed are bad, not handicaps in general.

I mean that's the definition of "token" character.
 
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AdenPhoenix said:
Though if you're afraid of inclusiveness as a concept for this game, I have to ask have you seen its cast? You're talking about token handicap characters being an issue because one might be autistic, did you miss the acrobatic character with no arms?

I understand why I see some knee-jerking when certain words get thrown around in game development now, but if you think this is an issue here I'm confused as to how you think that now but didn't before, perhaps I missed it.

And for the record no part of my post was trying to imply you're homophobic, it's just easy to draw parallels with those arguments/issues in this case.

Aden I have nothing against characters with handicap. I have something against characters written around their handicap just to meet some quota and ending up like what you said.
Inclusivity doesn't bother me either. If you want characters to be different from each other and standing out, you have my vote, but if it is all for some imaginary quota and characters end up one-dimensional I have issues.

Armless acrobath whatshername is one of the characters that hyped me for Indiv.

EDIT: also, kawalorn might have said it better than I did now.
 
I remember in one episode of Kim Possible where there was a guy that had to move around with a wheelchair. At the end of the episode, it was revealed that it had jet thrusters, plasma cannon and rockets. In what way was this supposed to represent/make handicapped people feel better?
 
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ArgonBern said:
but if it is all for some imaginary quota and characters end up one-dimensional I have issues.
"Imaginary quota" in that you're the one making it up? Like, I have no idea where you're even getting this from.
 
Remember when we talked about gameplay and characters and not about minuscule things like autism or fear for how the character is written.
 
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FakeangeL said:
I remember in one episode of Kim Possible where there was a guy that had to move around with a wheelchair. At the end of the episode, it was revealed that it had jet thrusters, plasma cannon and rockets. In what way was this supposed to represent/make handicapped people feel better?
Uh... I'm not sure what you're arguing here. But that's about as relevant as how Sangmu has sand powers, and isn't just a mandala artist. Not part of my original statement at all. Not sure how this relates to Argon either.
 
missingno said:
"Imaginary quota" in that you're the one making it up? Like, I have no idea where you're even getting this from.

Look at how Bioware has been writing their gay and trans characters lately. That's what he is talking about. As in, not wanting that.

I haven't seen one well done from them since Zevran in Dragon Age, and yet they just have to put 2 or 3 of them in every game as if they had a quota to do so.
 
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Magma442 said:
Remember when we talked about gameplay and characters and not about minuscule things like autism or fear for how the character is written.
I trust that whatever Lab Zero decides, they will write the character well enough (we'll see how well that is for 40 incarnations), and I don't agree with the zeal that Argon has taken to with this, but I don't really see how this is less relevant. Indivisible is already on track for incredible diversity.
 
Magma442 said:
Remember when we talked about gameplay
Yeah, last July was nice. Shame that was, you know, July.
 
HiroProtagonest said:
I trust that whatever Lab Zero decides, they will write the character well enough (we'll see how well that is for 40 incarnations), and I don't agree with the zeal that Argon has taken to with this, but I don't really see how this is less relevant. Indivisible is already on track for incredible diversity.
I'm not zealous. I just don't want one-dimensionality from the studio that dropped SG.

It's more like "high standards' concerns", something like:

Kawalorn said:
Look at how Bioware has been writing their gay and trans characters lately. That's what he is talking about. As in, not wanting that.

I haven't seen one well done from them since Zevran in Dragon Age, and yet they just have to put 2 or 3 of them in every game as if they had a quota to do so.

NOT
Shit that I never said:
I don't want no gays/cripples/non-whites in mah vidya.

Why do people here treat me like I said that?
 
ArgonBern said:
I'm not zealous. I just don't want one-dimensionality from the studio that dropped SG.
Just be cool, man, be cool.

I already trust the studio for this and don't want to scrutinize things that aren't there. I just wanted to give some information on a subject people may not know much about, and an example, to be considered as things go forward.

Speaking of Yan, though, I like that she has nothing in common with (the fantastic) Rin Tezuka.
Rin_basic_absent.png
 
I was having some problems with the theme. I downloaded it, but whenever I try to use it, it says I have to buy it, even though it's free.
 
ArgonBern said:
I was having some problems with the theme. I downloaded it, but whenever I try to use it, it says I have to buy it, even though it's free.

No idea what that could be, since it's likely a Sony rights issue.

Just to be sure, you're using it on the same PSN account that you downloaded it from, right?

I'll reach out to someone at Sony and see if they have any ideas, though.
 
Ravidrath said:
Just to be sure, you're using it on the same PSN account that you downloaded it from, right?
Yup.
Thanks in advance for the help btw.
 
What if the incarnations, at least the active combat ones, sit back and experience everything Ajna is doing, and some of them are backseat gamers.

I had this thought when I was thinking about Dhar saying something upon meeting George.

Edit: And for the record, I don't want to hear them all the time when I'm platforming. I just want to see fanart of all of them in Inner Realm spectator bleachers or something. :P

Edit 2: Aaaand the Iron Kingdom is a completely separate thing from Ravannavar's nation... well I missed that.
 
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HiroProtagonest said:
Edit 2: Aaaand the Iron Kingdom is a completely separate thing from Ravannavar's nation... well I missed that.
Ravannavar is from Ajna's nation as far as I can tell. Iron Kingdom is situated in the whole other area.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
Ravannavar is from Ajna's nation as far as I can tell. Iron Kingdom is situated in the whole other area.
I don't think Ajna is in the same nation considering they were at war... more "continent."

But since the Iron Kingdom was the first named empire-at-war and Vasco deserted from it, I'd assumed it was Ravannavar's. Now it makes much more sense for the Iron Kingdom to have a group of monster-hunters.

Oh yeah, and for Iron Kingdom characters, I also found the old concept art for Kampan... while it didn't fit the Indivisible style, I now understand my problem with her design. I feel like Alex's version exaggerated the power arm a little too much, it looks as big as she is!
 
@HiroProtagonest
What old concept art for kampan? Is it something not in the indiegogo updates?
 
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