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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

Fact is, at this point I feel bad for how I was still angry at L0 without knowing that they DID take the backlash into consideration and said "Alright, maybe this isn't 'Vasco' anymore, might recycle him into someone else", which is a good idea imo.

Fuck, I don't know if the whole team blocked me at this point. That would be heartbreaking, although reasonable.

Edit @Sister Act : alright alright, I realised that.
 
Why would he change? His design is already set now, in fact he was one of the first finalized designs.
 
this is the part where'd there be a ba dum tss
but we're still waiting for Tatanka's redesign
so here's the next best thing
 
Th-the joke was that I love Dhar's attacks and... and my signature says like... yeah...

I even had a dank reference response in case L0 responded.
 
New interview from mythicalentertainment : http://mithicalentertainment.com/first-impressions-indivisible/

Not much new stuff, though now we can see game is straight up "Super Metroid meets Chrono Trigger meets Valkyrie Profile (2?)" , and the confirmation levelling will matter but what is important is improving your skills too.
So yeah its no real groundbreaking news but knoiwing those stuff are set in stone is pretty good.
 
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levelling will matter
I'm sorry, what I read seems to not say that?
“When you level up, you might get like, 10 HP. At the same time, there is a skill in this game that increases your HP from 5,000 to 10,000 while it’s active.” Mr. Zaimont went on to explain that while leveling up is certainly encouraged, it would be unlikely that merely leveling up would allow you to outpace the game. It then boils back down to your skill in combat.
 
And likewise Argon, I feel a bit bad fully knowing what happened with the Vasco stuff, I did liked the design to begin with to boot so the backlash was kinda weird to me.

It'd be kinda sad if he straight up stopped being Vasco too... Idk to me he still holds that name and such, so him becoming a straight up new character... I mean I get why it could happen I just think it'd be a bit sad... Poor Vasco, gone but not forgotten :')

Talking of designs I gotta say I thought Nuna's original design was boring so i'm really glad she changed. I dig her new look!

personally me and my sister prefer the older kid design as it cemented her as one of the youngest and most inexperienced of the cast and i think that the newer design is more boring than the original, though other than that i guess she's fine, i'm just bummed that another one of my potentially favorite cast members got a major redesign.

as for Vasco, i tried my best to give constructive criticism on why i thought new vasco didn't work and i hope i came across that way, ultimately only time will tell what vasco's fate will be. I sincerely hope that eventually there'll be a major redesign i vastly prefer to the orignal.

finally i think lab zero messed up with the timing of the old designs. they should have postponed the indiegogo for a little while to come up with designs that they prefer/work better for animation that way any and all backlash for the redesigns would be non-existent ( if there's a good reason for why they decided to make the design on the spot and not wait, then i'm sorry)

Edit: alright then HiroProtaganest and J-Boogie thank you for explaining it to me. i forgot that the characters needed to be revealed during the campaign to generate interest, i'm sorry for my ignorance.

P.S. how much longer are lab zero going to keep crowdfunding open, i ask because the final stretch goal depends on that.
 
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While there should have been more media coverage and hype-generating content prepared for the crowdfunding launch, that's just infeasible. That requires all the world-building and then the creation and refinement of all the characters concepts that we have by this point, and more because they still haven't put out finished versions of all the characters, which is not something done off-the-clock. That's full-time jobs that require pay, and they didn't even have a budget before the goal was met.
 
Let's also not forget that this project was for the existence of Lab Zero itself.

A lot of work was put into having those designs so they had something to show and not fluff. Along with that impressive prototype I'd say that postponing might not have been in the cards. Especially if a bunch of other companies outside of Lab Zero are involved. That is a good amount of stuff to coordinate and even then hiccups occured (looking at you, Trigger).So I kind of have to raise an eyebrow at saying they should have postponed like they might not have already considered that.

It's real easy to armchair dev when you only have to consider the consumer side of things.
 
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@ team shock to vasco reaction and wanting to change names.
they could keep both as Vasco. Mr. and Mr. Vasco. A couple. Bert and ernie style. Old vasco = bert. New vasco =ernie. IDK what their first names would be.
 
mmmmmh nah...

if they try that, then they would be Brothers.

but i don't see that either. my bet is that old Vasco is going to be the hard stone cold guy that you most likely have to fight with the new Vasco by your side.
 
No words on all the new stuff in that Reel? Looks like a new enemy attacking the party at the beginning, buncha new environments, countless new (and terrifying) boss designs on a wall separated by region, a new name, "Haathi", and those drawings by Alex raise a lot of questions, mainly the unnamed monster lady (also being animated for combat in the cut just before...?).
 
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Looks like a new enemy attacking the party at the beginning
That looked like it could have been one of the Vimana wizards, but it's weird that it seemed to hit the nearby enemies with that attack too. I wonder if that could be a trait for some enemy AoE, or maybe it was just a bug?
 
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I certainly can't blame them, but I can say I just really liked old Nuna and will miss her.
 
At this point, I half expect the old designs to only show up in obituaries or wanted posters. "Here lies, Vasco, too sexy for this life, too sexy for this life, and so he caused strife."
 
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I'm sorry, what I read seems to not say that?

Well technically it will matter. Just that actually getting better at the game will be as important, if more. :^)

Having not played Valkyrie Profile (and i still should) I can say it's kinda similar to say, the Mario & Luigi game, where even by griding you'll still need to pay attention to your enemies' attacks otherwise your characters won't last long.
 
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For what it's worth someone on reddit was kind enough to put timestamps for the twitch archive. (given that it's a twitch archive it won't last forever though right)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/156589336?t=40m35s

Timestamps:

Panel Start: 00:34:33

New gameplay/features 00:40:35

Titmouse and Trigger 01:09:25

Voice Actresses 01:21:05

Hidden Variable talk about Skullgirls Mobile 01:28:56

New Environment Art in Indivisible 01:41:14

Other Art by Alex 01:47:30

Status of Skullgirls Physical Release 01:50:09

Q&A 01:53:09
 
Naga Rider has a nemesis?! Awesome!

New enemies are looking amazing! I wanna know what mythology and lore they bring to this.

@jam1220 lmao it totally does look like he's getting his revenge!

Damn, I was really late.

But just in time to hear the possibility of Skullgirls totally-not-comics.

Yes.
Ooh, I missed this entirely, what's this about SG? "Something soon?!" Oooooh!
 
Helmbreaker looks awesome.
 
Thanks to everyone speaking reason in here.

Trying not to get mad at some of the things I'm reading, but... kinda mostly failing.

You have no idea how hard it was to make the prototype and put that campaign together in the time we had, not to mention run it and generate the art and characters for it. And coordinating all of this with the publisher, our other partners, etc.

We put more work into this campaign than I think ANY campaign ever, and apparently that's still not good enough?

And the idea that we should delay things - meaning go unpaid even longer - because some character designs changed is absolutely ludicrous and, frankly, insulting to the hard work this team has put into making the best game they can.

Sorry if you don't like some of the changes, but the reality is that you're seeing a side of game development you don't usually see. And you're only reinforcing every reason why other developers don't do what we're doing.

But I firmly believe that if we'd had the time and money to develop the characters more before the campaign, the things you're seeing now is what you would've gotten then. And you'd probably have liked them just as much as you liked the originals designs we revealed. So please at least try to consider that the only thing you're reacting to is that something changed, and try to consider the designs on their own rather than comparing them to the original designs.

I'm sure plenty of you will nitpick the other reveals, but you've now seen the three characters that have changed the most: Baozhai, Vasco, and Nuna. I think pretty much everyone else is very close to the original designs, more in line with what you've seen from Dhar, Yan and Phoebe.

There are 24 playable characters and three changed more than you expected. So if you end up disliking 12% or less of the cast, I think we're still doing pretty good all around. And probably better than most RPGs you've ever played.
 
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It's okay, Peter.

I think most people are speaking from a place of wishing things were easier for y'all but I feel ya on this. It's why I felt like I had to say what I did.

Sent from my SM-G928R4 using Tapatalk
 
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I certainly can't blame them, but I can say I just really liked old Nuna and will miss her.

We felt the original costume was a bit too on-the-nose, and also wanted to give her a stronger silhouette. And in keeping with her "three sisters" theme, we gave her hair a squash-like shape.
 
I'm sure (and i kinda HOPE to be honest) than next year we'd be all like "man those campaign designs were kinda bland overall glad they changed them" :^)

From what i've realized, our main mistake, as a fanbase in general i mean, is that we grew too attached to the old pre-production stuff, not realizing they were more like glorified concept-art, and of course things change yet some people are like "why did it change!!?"

I take my example as a humble amateur artist i always change the design of my characters because i don't like them or don't make much sense so i kind of get that's what you guys are doing too (at a much bigger scale of course.)

But yeah i guess some people talk from a "we wait for the content to appear and then we say our opinion about it" without really thinking of why it is like that and such. As you said, it's a pretty novel (is it the right term? sorry english isn't my first language) thing to do that showing regular updates and behind the scenes stuff... I wish more people were sensible to it and weren't "they changed this character!!! That's BAD!"

And the idea that we should delay things - meaning go unpaid even longer - because some character designs changed is absolutely ludicrous and, frankly, insulting to the hard work this team has put into making the best game they can.

Frankly yeah, what the fuck is with people thinking that. That is... ?? Frankly really really disrespectful to me.


EDIT: Ah yes, @Ravidrath , do you know when the AX panel will be uploaded on the Indivisible YT channel?
 
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Sorry if you don't like some of the changes, but the reality is that you're seeing a side of game development you don't usually see. And you're only reinforcing every reason why other developers don't do what we're doing.
I just want to express appreciation for getting to see this stuff, it's been really cool to see the animation streams and I loved getting to see Mike's design and coding streams back during the campaign. It's really nice getting to see more of a development perspective and getting to understand how/why stuff works the way it does.

And I can't imagine how rough the campaign must have been on the team, it certainly was rough as a fan wanting to see it succeed but it did make it, just because people might not react well to change doesn't mean getting this information goes unappreciated.
 
EDIT: Ah yes, @Ravidrath , do you know when the AX panel will be uploaded on the Indivisible YT channel?

We've requested the footage from the AX panel folks, but no response yet.

Unfortunately, AX is really disorganized, and getting responses from these guys has been very difficult in the past. But if we don't hear anything today, I'll try calling tomorrow.
 
We've requested the footage from the AX panel folks, but no response yet.

Unfortunately, AX is really disorganized, and getting responses from these guys has been very difficult in the past. But if we don't hear anything today, I'll try calling tomorrow.
And I thought the stuff I heard about Linecon and Artist Alley were bad enough at this year's AX.
 
@Ravidrath who suggested delaying things?

About the char designs: the only complaint I ever had was Vasco and we all know how that went, and the choice to simply change his name and background and make him another character is a good solution in response to the whole controversy imo. At this point I can only hope old Vasco can make even just a cameo, but that's you guys' call.


I like new Nuna a lot more. I thought her old design was one of the most boring during the IGG.

Who the fuck is shitting on my waifu Baozhai
 
who suggested delaying things?
finally i think lab zero messed up with the timing of the old designs. they should have postponed the indiegogo for a little while to come up with designs that they prefer/work better for animation that way any and all backlash for the redesigns would be non-existent
 
Oh. We managed to finally summon Ravidrath, but somehow I'm not happy about it at all =/
Regarding the controversy, I'd urge people here to be more mndful of devs' ramifications. After all, in my mind, one of the main goals of open development is to let people know what goes into the process of production and decision making so they could better understand what's feasible and what isn't. Keeping in mind all the SG-related conundrum and how open L0 was about it and how eager they were to make things right, I'm somewhat dissapointed that some people here think that L0 didn't do everything in their power to get the best possible result.
Now, understandably not everyone here follows the development process close enough to know all that stuff and not everyone was doing it since SG days, so of course these things wouldn't be obvious to them. Saying that I feel like it's a responsibility of more knowledgable members to explain such things to newer posters. I'm a little bit ashamed to be honest that I myself didn't do that earlier =/
As a part of SH L0 community I want to apologize for these statements and to express hope that it won't discourage the team from being open with us in the future. Although if it does discourage them, however regretable that would be, I will totally understand that too.
 
But yeah i guess some people talk from a "we wait for the content to appear and then we say our opinion about it" without really thinking of why it is like that and such.
I agree. A big problem I see when people compare these designs, is that they compare them on roughly the same level, disregarding just how drastically different the parameters behind each designs' decisions were. They see one design that they feel looks cooler, understandably, but then jump to the assumption that it would "work better" for the game because of that. They also analyze the original concept as if it was a fully realized character that could have appeared in the game, even if many aspects of the concept would have needed to be changed no matter what.

Since we know the roster had to be narrowed down to a couple dozen, that meant a lot of weight was put on this smaller cast to represent a similar variety in fighting styles, personalities, body types, races, attire, color schemes, and other traits that you saw in the larger IGG roster. That's on top of the production challenges of making sure the team was happy with the decisions, that the designs would look good onscreen, that the designs could be produced in a timely and efficient manner, and that they could avoid as many revisions to their contractors' assignments as possible.

Like Peter said, it's a huge task, and I believe if most harsh critics had been directing LabZero on the ground level, reviewing the IGG designs under these same parameters, they'd have ended up making similarly large decisions that would have left some people unhappy. Sure, maybe a different direction could have allowed them to preserve something closer to Vasco's old look and personality, but that decision might have then required drastic changes to another popular character that would have also been met with a lot of backlash. Parts of other characters' backstories might have needed to be rewritten, and maybe a proposed playstyle would have ended up cut from the game altogether. There are just a ton of moving parts to consider.

Personally, I get really excited when I see the new designs, because I know these will be the living, talking, moving characters I actually get to play and learn about in the game. I know that they'll be animated beautifully, and will satisfy the needs of the story and the gameplay. Yeah, I might miss a circlet here, or a hairstyle there, but if the changes still ultimately serve to make a satisfying game that actually gets released, then that's really what I value the most.
 
You said pretty much everything I would've, Kaboom, ha.

My reaction to Vasco's change was pretty much 'This is different but I'm *real* interested in seeing where this is going.'
 
I admit seeing him in action during the AX panel eased what doubts i could have about his new incarnation (hah).
He looks so cool and just oozes professionnalism in his every moves... I'm a big fan of the move where he just turns around and shoots at the enemy's feet while keeping a calm face.
Clearly he's a battle veteran 'w'
 
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For people like this Devs doesn´t want to show early stuff, be polite and grateful for the open communication that L0 have with us, is their vision/ game, no us.