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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

Vadsamoht said:
Would that be quicksave-and-quit (essentially meaning that you can't abuse it just before a boss or whatever), or the opposite which would allow someone to save, try something and mess it up, restore the save, save, repeat, but with the save being lost on reset?
I was thinking quicksave-and-quit, because quicksave is more for allowing people to play a 2-hour dungeon in 20-minute segments. But that doesn't exclude having real savepoints in required locations like near bosses or after hard parts.

Small rant - I'd also have checkpoints before bosses, so when you die you start right there until you load. It avoids the "Oh, look, a savepoint in the middle of nowhere, I bet there's a boss around here," thing, which I hate.
 
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Mike_Z said:
If a game lets you get stuck (anytime, but specifically after a save) it's a badly made game.
Or it's kinda old and weird. This one wasn't Save-Anywhere, but I remember almost being screwed over the first time I played BOF2, because I had neglected leveling up certain characters. That's really the game I reflect on whenever I decide to start grinding in other RPG's.

But hey! Since you're on the line, could you or @Ravidrath chime in on my earlier questions regarding Paypal? Should Backers have any concerns using the service? Like, could one user sending multiple payments to Lab Zero in one day cause a Red Flag to pop up or something? Just hoping everything goes smooth this time.
 
Mike_Z said:
Small rant - I'd also have checkpoints before bosses, so when you die you start right there until you load. It avoids the "Oh, look, a savepoint in the middle of nowhere, I bet there's a boss around here," thing, which I hate.
What's the difference? Aren't you supposed to tell player when chekpoint is being reached anyways?
 
Not-So-Saint said:
What's the difference? Aren't you supposed to tell player when chekpoint is being reached anyways?
I get the impression it would be less noticeable since you would just see the quick save icon in the top corner and think the game is just doing it's thing. Now level architecture and such could telegraph a boss but that's another thing entirely.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
What's the difference? Aren't you supposed to tell player when chekpoint is being reached anyways?
No waaaaaaaaaaaay. Hella games just use checkpoints as "the next death starts here". I don't mean a quicksave, I mean a checkpoint.

KaboomKid said:
But hey! Since you're on the line, could you or @Ravidrath chime in on my earlier questions regarding Paypal? Should Backers have any concerns using the service? Like, could one user sending multiple payments to Lab Zero in one day cause a Red Flag to pop up or something? Just hoping everything goes smooth this time.
Uh, nah, it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the "this is a whole lot of money". We dealt with it before and it was fine, we'll deal with it again if it comes up again. I wouldn't worry.
 
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Mike_Z said:
No waaaaaaaaaaaay. Hella games just use checkpoints as "the next death starts here". I don't mean a quicksave, I mean a checkpoint.
Now I understand even less.

Also did IGG time moved from mid-september to late-september already or is it mid still?
 
Typically in the newer games, devs plopped down a check point in areas that was geared for "Yeah, you're going to f'in die here" moments, which was quite often for some people. It's just watering down the experience of surviving fights. Most games are guilty of saving after every fight, which makes people too lax. "Oops I died. eh, it autosaved after that last fight.." is kind of a lame way to advance a game. Coming from the old days where checkpoints was few and far between, gives the game a better feel to me. Yeah, sucks restarting the whole area, but it gives you a chance to turn around and try som'in different.
 
so check points, quick saves, and fa-real fa-real saves. can't say "i forgot to save" with all these fail safes. lol.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
Now I understand even less.
Checkpoint - walk past a spot, die, respawn at that spot. Lost when you reset or turn off the game. No file is created.
Quicksave - turn off the game, turn it back on, start at that spot again ONCE. Save file is destroyed after it is loaded.
Save - save, and load it from that file as many times as you want.

Not-So-Saint said:
Also did IGG time moved from mid-september to late-september already or is it mid still?
It may indeed move later, we have to find out extra information that's beyond our control. >.<
 
Mike_Z said:
Checkpoint - walk past a spot, die, respawn at that spot. Lost when you reset or turn off the game. No file is created.
Quicksave - turn off the game, turn it back on, start at that spot again ONCE. Save file is destroyed after it is loaded.
Save - save, and load it from that file as many times as you want.
Oh, now I see. It actually worked the same way in recent platformers I played.
 
Resident Battle Network expert here: Battle Network 1 refilled your HP to full after every encounter. It was a gigantic pain in the ass, because you couldn't escape encounters without using an Escape chip, the encounter rate was absurdly high, and every internet area looked exactly the damn same. Walking 3 feet and having to delete a group of Quakey3's that were all capable of instakilling you from 1000HP was the worst.

Battle Network 2 and onward removed this, and additionally added Subchips, which allowed you to heal outside of combat (in addition to other abilities). You still got a full heal for jacking out, and of course any Navi battles that took place off the internet (like most face-to-face battles such as Metalman.EXE, Gutsman.EXE, and whatever Mr. Famous' fan-designed Navi Of The Week was) started you at full HP. Battle Network 2 also added the ability to escape without using Escape chips, which were removed altogether from the series from 3 onward.
 
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BeatNinja said:
And today we present: The hub

https://twitter.com/x/status/642449807282425856
ArgonBern said:
IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE

I still have to see the game's plot to decide if the inner realm is in context.

In aesthetics only, however, it is a very beautiful inner realm

Reminds me a little of one of my favorite levels.

tje_level0_5.png
 
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99% of the time people say quicksave they mean a permanent save (as in, what Mike was calling save there) you get from hitting one button. It usually overwrites that save everytime you hit the quicksave key. It's an ancient PC gamer term.

Most people on PC would call what someone called quicksave "save and quit" or maybe a roguelike save. Just sayin' because that was real confusing for me.
 
I call it suspended save.
I don't remember what game calls it that, but it sounds nice.
 
I think he referred to GBA games' quicksave, where you select quicksave and the game restarts but when you open the file you start from where you quicksaved. Metroid Fusion and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon had this for example.
 
does it matter since you are able to go to inner world or w/e any time you want to save?
 
Arcana said:
does it matter since you are able to go to inner world or w/e any time you want to save?
We don't know if you could do that any time. Since she need to meditate to do that, it's possible that she'll refuse to go there if enemy is close for example.
 
Cheesedragon said:
Fucking why.

Because i'd rather have a limited, but reliable ammount of healing to tackle a dungeon (that would be designed with that in mind) than spend hours over hours farming elixirs and hero drinks to use every 3 turns in a boss whem my HP/MP is too low to use the planned skill.
 
BeatNinja said:
And today we present: The hub
Kind of reminds me of the description of the Castoff's Labyrinth that's going to be in Torment: Tides of Numenera.
Kai said:
Although I'm definitely interested to hear about a merit-based healing system, I just plain don't like resource-based field healing. No matter how you set it up, all it accomplishes is imposing a threshold in which you need to go back to town or a healing stone or whatever is in the game. It doesn't increase the challenge, is just complicates and hinders forward progress. I don't view potion management as a fun challenge.

Sounds very Bastion. Will it fulfill a similar function (base of operations)?
I think the later Shin Megami Tensei/Persona games provide a good way of allowing health management. You basically have three ways to heal; health restorative items, character spells/abilities, and leveling up. The last option works well for the dungeon-crawler aspects of most SMT games since you're rewarded for exploring and getting into fights with a full health bar every level up which can happen pretty frequently. So in addition to just learning how each area's enemies work and adjusting your playstyle accordingly to minimize losses, you can consistently heal up just by doing what comes naturally which is what I think Mike is referring to.
 
DukeMagus said:
Because i'd rather have a limited, but reliable ammount of healing to tackle a dungeon (that would be designed with that in mind) than spend hours over hours farming elixirs and hero drinks to use every 3 turns in a boss whem my HP/MP is too low to use the planned skill.

No, why would you capitalize Souls but not Dark?
 
I like how the lead up to the IGG has answered most of the design choices for the trailer.
 
Indivisible said:
While the current plan is for Ajna’s Inner Realm to manifest like her home town, as a stretch goal we’d like to let you customize the appearance, selecting architecture throughout the game so you can customize Ajna’s Inner Realm however you see fit!

Pointless, especially for a single player game. I thought L0 wasn't much for wasted effort, I'm hoping this is wayyyyy down the stretch goal line, after all the important stuff has been achieved.
 
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Cheesedragon said:
Pointless, especially for a single player game. I thought L0 wasn't much for wasted effort, I'm hoping this is wayyyyy down the stretch goal line, after all the important stuff has been achieved.
It wasn't pointless in Dark Cloud. I mean, it wasn't any more pointless than anything else we do in video games, at least.

I like building up my little homestead and being able to customize largely inconsequential BS. It's fun.
 
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Cheesedragon said:
Pointless, especially for a single player game. I thought L0 wasn't much for wasted effort, I'm hoping this is wayyyyy down the stretch goal line, after all the important stuff has been achieved.

So what's the important stuff? Kinda weird to label something they're thinking about as pointless without seeing what's planned in the campaign first.
 
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If it's done well, it's not pointless.

I think it sounds like a cool feature, I could see different building facades being inspired by the different cultures of the Incarnations Ajna fuses with. And who knows, maybe it could have an effect on the way the Incarnations interact, or the upgrades they can access.

Edit: Also, and this is guess work, if something like adding customization options around the inner realm are purely cosmetic, then the main factor would be environment artists creating the art assets. If that's the job of someone who isn't involved with programming/animation etc. then maybe it's filling time during gamedev when they wouldn't be doing anything else.
As opposed to all the stretch goals being '3 extra fully playable Incarnations' '2 extra levels' '5 more fully animated enemy types' which would stack onto the work load of the full time members of Lab Zero and delay the release of the game. ?
idk maybe i'm way underestimating the workload of Willy Huang and the environment artists, but thats what it suggests to me.
 
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Cheesedragon said:
Pointless, especially for a single player game
What exactly is the point of anything in a single player game, by this logic?
 
Cheesedragon said:
Pointless, especially for a single player game. I thought L0 wasn't much for wasted effort, I'm hoping this is wayyyyy down the stretch goal line, after all the important stuff has been achieved.
You missed all the people asking for SG colors or character customization options, eh?
It may be pointless for completing the game, but it's not quite as pointless for the player.
It is also work that can be given to contractors, as opposed to level design, monster AI, etc.
 
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Cheesedragon said:
I'm not shitting up the thread with my opinions am i?
Not your opinion, no.
But telling us what's wasted effort? Kinda, yeah. :^)
We're still NOT about wasting effort, so we spend a good bit of time thinking about what constitutes doing that.
 
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Dude I love customizing the main hub in games. Disgaea was really good about that in 4. Makai Kingdom did it the best :^)
 
Will there be an option to change the frequency of enemy encounters, like in Bravely Default? I'm sure there'll be people who prefer the platforming over the combat, and vice versa.
 
Now I have two questions:

1. Will there be any water levels?

2. Will any future incarnation wield a meteor hammer?
 
CatfishZealot said:
Now I have two questions:
1. Will there be any water levels?
Dunno!
They're kinda universally hated, though. Maridia was okaaaaaaaaaay...

CatfishZealot said:
2. Will any future incarnation wield a meteor hammer?
Ignoring questions like this until after the IGG, for reasons. (^.^)
 
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