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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

I believe "owning the IP" and "having a publisher" are pretty much excluding each other
I don't think so. As far as I'm aware, L0 only had to give up the IP because they needed money to make the game. If a game developer needed a publisher to publish the game in certain regions and they needed to give up the IP then that sounds like an incredibly shitty deal, especially considering how it's a lot easier to self publish these days.
 
I suppose the answer to "When exactly did this new deal for Indivisible come up?" is still a trade secret?
 
Gonna repost some Q&A from NeoGaf.
Questions are from various people, responses are all from @Ravidrath
Strap in, this is a long one as it's taken from 7 pages of threads. I tried to cull repeated questions when I saw them, but I probably missed a few!

Real question: platforms?

PS4, Xbox One, Windows/Mac/Linux.

Possibly more.

Looking forward to seeing more. Though I was hoping for gameplay footage. : <

Not ready for gameplay footage, unfortunately. But we're going to deliver you a playable prototype when the CF'ing started when the time comes instead!

Even Lab Zero is into this silly name-dropping bullshit. What does Valkyrie Profile combat even mean in the context of a "Metroidvania"? Is it actually a JRPG with 2D maps?

It's called an "elevator pitch" - boil the concept down into something people already understand.

Just curious, why did you guys decide to go with Indiegogo again?
I know the reason stated for Skullgirls was cause you got the money quicker, which was necessary for that time, given how things were going with Konami.
But I imagine you guys are doing relatively ok now, so wouldn't the extra exposure of Kickstarter be better?

Their smaller cut and the speed is still important. The differences in take can still be, like, a whole person's salary for a year.

We're also going to get a lot of PR support from them, since they still really want to get a big game CF campaign under their belt.

...Hesitantly excited! What they've shown looks cool but I've pretty much avoided Skull Girls for its reputation as a fanservice game. Hopefully this one isn't. The main character looks really cool.

While we haven't designed all the party members, fanservice is not going to be a focus in this game.

The blurb doesn't specify it's the combat that's Valkyrie Profile-like. It's described as an action-RPG, while I would consider VP's combat to be "turn-based", even though it's very atypical and you can, like... "combo" your turns. I suppose the game overall is a lot more action-based than a typical JRPG from that period though, so that could be what they mean.

The combat will be inspired by Valkyrie Profile's, but we're going to put our own spin on it. Sort of like MvC2 was a starting point for Skullgirls' gameplay, but we took it a lot of different places from there.

I mean, if you think about it in the context of us, the party in VP1 is basically a single customizable fighting game character. So expect combos, lots of ways to build your perfect team, etc.

Are you guys working on this with WayForward or was that just a baseless rumor?

Baseless rumor, started by that Destructoid article landing around the same time.

Can't wait to see Kikuta's work on Indivisible fully done.

Man, he is so good.

I'm more interested if there are any job openings for this project.

If the CF portion of the budget is successful, we're going to need to roughly double the team to make this game.

So... hopefully?

Does using crowd funding mean you don't have to deal with a publisher and all the hassle that brings with it?

Can't get into this too much yet, but...

We have a publishing partner, ala Bloodstained and Shenmue. Unlike those campaigns, though, they'll be front and center. They just weren't ready to handle the PR for this right now, with the holiday, SDCC, etc. but will be announced before the campaign starts.

We went with a publishing partner because it's a good deal for us, and we didn't realistically think we could raise the entire budget for this game ourselves, and we really wanted to make it.

They're the ones funding the playable prototype we'll be distributing to drive the campaign, too. They're all in.

This game isn't planned to release for 2 years after the crowdfunding?!
Oh, so regarding that two year wait...

The plan is that if we're funded, we'll migrate the playable prototype to Steam and redistribute it to backers and update it with new levels, monsters and party members.

We're going to be careful not to spoil any story stuff, but we want people to see what gameplay we're working on and give feedback to improve it.

Can you guys speak on why you decided to go with a female protag?
Was it the VP influence? Maybe the current fight to have more female representation? Did the story dictate it? Or did you guys just wanna make a lady the protag?

Why an ARPG? Its rare to see a team that does fighting games move on from that. Usually studios stick to a certain genre and it's sub categories. ARPGs and Fighting Games have some cross over qualities but in the end are very very different.

It ties into the story, but I guess it's just what we wanted to do?

While some of the VP influence ties into the gameplay, it didn't influence the character's gender.

This original pitch happened because a publisher asked us for "something like Child of Light." We boiled that down into platformer/RPG, which immediately screamed "Valkyrie Profile" to us. As we began working on the story, the mythos, characters and Metroid-y elements started creeping in.

Also, like I noted before, combat in VP1 is sort of like your whole party is a single customizable fighting game character. So if you think about it that way, it plays very well off of Mike's combat chops.

Could you describe what happens in battle?

We're still working on it, so can't really get into specifics yet.

But it's heavily inspired by VP1's combat, and we'll have some of own twists on it.

Just wanted to say thanks for having a southeast Asian protagonist. Despite having spent so long arguing for greater representation in games, I've somehow just realized this is the first time I've seen a game with a hero who shares my background.

A lot of that came from Alex, who is of Burmese descent.

And while the core of the game is drawing on a sort of Southest Asian mythological soup stock, expect a wide representation of people and cultures.

Actually, since this is based specifically on VP1, can I make a request?
Can the characters yell ridiculous engrishy bullshit when they use their special moves? Purify Weird Soul was the dopest shit.

DONE.

Well, maybe not that crazy. But yelling out stuff like that is in line with our inspirations and fighting game background, I'd say.

Wasn't valkyrie profile turn based? Is this going to have tb combat? Confused by their use of "action/rpg"

We're still working on it, but I'd sort of say we'll be ATB-ifying VP1 combat and working in some additional combat depth. All of that could change, but that's the direction we're currently moving in.

I understand the confusion a bit. But VP1 has more action-y combat than most RPGs, even though it's still turn-based.

So we'll be upping the action in combat a bit, and I think we're going to have more of a focus on platforming, too. So it's an RPG with platforming and Metroid-y progression stuff, but both the exploration and combat will be amped up a bit compared to other games. If that makes any sense?

  • Any plans to make this episodic / constantly patched and changed? Or will this product mostly stay as-is once shipped?
I enjoy the idea that Skullgirls gets so much support and growth, but there's also a negative side to that; it often feels daunting to return to the game, when so much shifts about constantly. Not just character balances, but basic building blocks of the gameplay and match flow. Should be expect similar modding and meddling with this game too?
  • Any kind of Multiplayer thrown around? Local Co-Op?
It'd be pretty cool to be able to assign characters in your party to another player, and try to sync up attacks. I enjoyed the bit that Child of Light had (with a second player able to control Igniculus), and the idea of being able to share an adventure with a friend is one that's great whenever it occurs (from Multi-player SoM, to the ability to use 2 or more controllers in Final Fantasy VI, Wild Arms, Lunar, and Arc the Lad...)

This will probably stay pretty much the same after it's shipped, although we have some gameplay additions as stretch goals that will likely be handled similarly to post-release DLC.

However, if we're funded, we're going to migrate the prototype to Steam and gradually add new levels to it, so we can get feedback on monsters and party members, etc. without spoiling the story at all.

And we have some multiplayer ideas, but they're most likely going to be some of that post-release "DLC" content.

Metroidvania with Valkyrie Profile combat.

Wasn't that what the original Valkyrie Profile basically was?

I mean the dungeons in VP were 2D sidescroller platform-eqsue with multiple rooms, and the unique aspect in that there was doors for foreground and background accessible rooms.

Unless they mean Metroidvania in the specific progression that you slowly unlock additional platforming abilities such as double jump and whatnot.

Yeah, it's more VP1 w/ new traversal, obstacle-breaking abilities, etc. being gradually introduced. That's where the "Metroidvania" comes in, for the most part, although I think you'll see more exploration, too.

Also no time limit so you can explore and battle as much as you want!

I like it because she is a darker skin lady. As I am black and it is nice to see more characters of different colors.

Expect a lot more of that!
Do you have more words about the setting?

I can probably get into this a bit.

The "core" of the story, etc. was inspired by Southeast Asian mythology and religion, but the entire world is sort of a fantasy version of Earth where lots of different mythologies and their monsters, etc. coexist.

Ajna herself hails from a region that would fit a sort of generalized Burmese / Malaysian / Indonesian sort of vibe, but her quest will take her all over the world.

So, for example, a South American-ish region might have monsters and lore inspired by Aztec, Mayan and Incan mythology.

You see, I'm quite interested with the setting and her background as a character since I'm a Southeast Asian myself :p
So I'm curious where you guys get the necessary material from, since to be honest, they're quite hard to get even for us, the native, since most of our mythology aren't well recorded.

I don't really know what all of his sources are, but Alex he does a lot of research to support his stuff.

Eliza in Skullgirls, for example, was heavily researched to pack her with as many mythological references as possible and figure out how to represent them and make them gameplay-relevant, too.

The art team also took a trip down to the big LA library to do all sorts of weapon, mythology and monster research to inspire the content that'll be in the Indivisible playable prototype.

Does your character move in battle? Does battle occur on a separate "scene" than the map?

Still prototyping out the combat, but they'll be fixed in place ala VP1 most likely.

Our goal is for the battle transition to be pretty seamless - collide with an enemy, camera moves in, everyone takes their positions and fights, you win, zoom out and you're platforming again.

Quick questions:
1) What are your Metroidvania inspirations for this game?
2) Have you looked at Bloodstained's Kickstarter when determining stretch goals and features? If not, will you consider it? Bloodstained has an amazing array of modes that are perfect for combat-focused Metroidvanias. But I understand that budget will be a much bigger concern for you than for Bloodstained.
Edit: Ah, the combat is RPG-based, then. That makes some of Bloodstained's extra modes a bit irrelevant.

1) Super Metroid would be the biggest inspiration, I think. We'll see how it goes, but Mike would like to make sure there's a lot more exploration and discovery than you see in many modern "Metroidvania" games.

He'd also like the areas to be interconnected and possibly have some potential for sequence breaking.

2) As you noted in your edit, there isn't a lot of room for all these modes in a game with RPG combat like this.

I can't really get into it now, but we do have some plans for content variations that will require you to really know the game's mechanics and all of your party members' abilities to succeed, though.

We also don't want stretch goals to balloon the size of the core game too much, otherwise it'll be impossible to stick to our estimated schedule. So I think you'll likely see some of the content be stretch goals for post release update(s).
 
hmmmm. Just a quick question will just the combat sections of Indivisible be made out of the Z engine? or will the whole game be made out of it? (I know the Z engine is flexible but I'm curious to see if it can make a whole RPG.)
 
The game will have some grind?i mean, people that really enjoy grind have some place to call "home" in this game?
Oh, by the way, any idea how long the game will be? Or maybe if will have replayability(this word exist)?
 
i was thinking about PS1-era rpgs and i wonder how obtuse the solutions would be to complete puzzles.

valkryie profile is particularly infamous for deciphering the requirements to getting the true end. and even the game that put the "vania" in the metroidvania, symphony of the night, also had those glasses to get to the inverted castle.
 
The game will have some grind?i mean, people that really enjoy grind have some place to call "home" in this game?

I second this question, typically in RPGs there is a place or places where the player can level up and/or upgrade stuff faster.
 
Hmm...from the sound of it, the combat transition sounds interesting...camera zooms in quickly, blurring the scene, as when it finishes, the area has now shifted fairly seamlessly into a battle area and your allies appear or are already there, etc. A victory would then zoom out from Ajna, reversing the effect? Something like that? That kind of transition sounds pretty cool :D
 
Grinding isn't bad as an option.

Some gamers need the extra push that more grinding can deliver if they aren't that good at the game. What some games seem to to fall victim too is sudden sharp difficulty spikes where your suddenly obligated to have to grind despite doing quite fine without unnecessary grinding for the past 10 hours of gameplay for example. The difficulty should be gradually increased where you can probably still pass the game [with maybe some difficulty that requires some strategy on your end from equipment loadout to item stock] without having to auto battle mobs for an hour to move on.

Note this is all assuming you start at the "normal" difficulty and if there is any "hard" or above difficulties then your kind of more obligated to grind.
 
I love leveling up in games. Grinding is not that, though, and this has only become more and more clear as I age and don't have time for that shit. I hate grinding, despite having sunk ungodly amounts of time doing it in old RPGs as a kid. For me, now, a well designed RPG should mean that skillful players who choose to explore most things in the game will acquire enough xp and items to never be under-powered, and only need to grind for the Ruby Weapon style fights.
 
i don't think grinding is going to be a Major factor here. Cause the combat is going to be combo based so it's more team building and experimenting with attacks and magic to see what works with what. Sure gaining lvls should increase damage and health and all that other RPG stuff but that shouldn't matter as much if you and your party members are able to do sick combos on your enemies being able to rip chunks of health away in a short period of time.
 
About the seamless transitions, that reminds me of Chrono Trigger where the map is the battlefield even though it's ATB turn-based.
 
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Another thing i wonder if it's gonna have a "metal slime" type of enemy, you know, those that are extremely rare to find and hard to kill but give ludicrous amounts of exp/gold.

I only care about grinding if i've beaten the game before and know everything that is going on, i grind just so i can pummel the enemies/bosses as quick as possible, i recall making my whole party be lvl 99 in Earthbound the 5th time i played it, and i exploited the fuck out of the Rock Candy/Sugar trick.

B*tches can't handle my 4000 damage crits.
 
Another thing i wonder if it's gonna have a "metal slime" type of enemy, you know, those that are extremely rare to find and hard to kill but give ludicrous amounts of exp/gold.

Yes! Gimme those Kingdom Hearts type rare gimmick enemies like the Mushrooms and the Sniperwilds!
 
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I agree with Kai, I lose interest when a game becomes more work and less play. I'm sure Lab Zero has the knowhow to keep that from happening though.
 
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I love the gridding system for Bravely Default, that you increase/ decrease the encounters for enemys, are you guys think about implement something similiar? just curious.
 
I love the gridding system for Bravely Default, that you increase/ decrease the encounters for enemys, are you guys think about implement something similiar? just curious.
That would depend on the system of encountering enemies whether it's like chrono trigger(you can see the enemies and need to bump into them physically) or it's like final fantasy(can't see monsters).

I got the impression that it will be like chrono trigger because of it'll be like super metroid.
 
That would depend on the system of encountering enemies whether it's like chrono trigger(you can see the enemies and need to bump into them physically) or it's like final fantasy(can't see monsters).

I got the impression that it will be like chrono trigger because of it'll be like super metroid.

Well, you got a point there.
 
I love the gridding system for Bravely Default, that you increase/ decrease the encounters for enemys, are you guys think about implement something similiar? just curious.
I actually think that's a bit too on the nose. Like, "yeah grinding's dumb, but you can moderate it yourself!" Just give me a better tuned system, lol :P
 
I'm interested in how many side characters/partners there are gonna be in the game, and how you recruit them. Are they unlocked as you play through the story? Do certain characters need certain conditions to be filled before they join you? Ravidrath mentioned in Cellsai's copypaste that design work hadnt even finished on all these characters, and we saw a tonne in the trailer. Also obviously Alex and the L0 artists are gonna really get a chance to shine with all these varied chars to concept attacks for.
 
I actually think that's a bit too on the nose. Like, "yeah grinding's dumb, but you can moderate it yourself!" Just give me a better tuned system, lol :P

I agree.
 
Like that of "The World Ends With You"? in that one it's not necessary to grind or even have random battles at all, it's possible to finish the game by just fighting the even battles and boss battles but it's ridicously hard, good thing you can set the game's difficulty in the main menu and change it as much as you want.
 
I actually think that's a bit too on the nose. Like, "yeah grinding's dumb, but you can moderate it yourself!" Just give me a better tuned system, lol :P

Actually I enjoyed the system a great deal and had a friend who did as well.
As my deal is I love grinding and he loves doing stuff at a low a level as possible.

And the xp system was well tuned. They just decided to let you moderate it yourself when they updated it. Is it something I'd want to see in every game? Not really as I don't think it'd be well implemented every time. But for Bravely Default it was way more than 'Grinding's Dumb!' :V
 
About the whole "sidescrolling + RPG, but with fighting elements in it"... have you guys checked "Abyss Odissey"?

It's far more action oriented than your idea, but it surely has some intresting mix


It even got it's fair share of combos!

 
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I hope the transition between the platforming and the fighting is very smooth, almost instantaneous.

A few seconds of waiting for the battle to load is super annoying after hundreds of hours of play.
 
Unless this is your favorite game ever, I doubt you are going to get hundreds of hours out of this game. Not that I know anything about the game, but most rpgs clock 10 - 20 hours, and you'll probably only play it once or twice.
 
I guess it is wishful thinking on my part.

Lab Zero did mention there will be replayability that caters to players who have mastered the game.
 
I feel confident that Lab Zero will take the best parts of the genre, including replayability. Even so, it's better to have an awesome 20hr rpg than a boring 50hr rpg.
 
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I feel confident that Lab Zero will take the best parts of the genre, including replayability. Even so, it's better to have an awesome 20hr rpg than a boring 50hr rpg.
I definitely agree about quality of time spent over quantity. It doesn't matter if a game is 5 billion hours long if it is filled with dull padding, I'd much rather play a 5 hour game that is awesome for every second of it and which has a bunch of good replayability (and just scattering items across a map is not good replayability IMO, a large number of ways to approach each situation like in games like Dishonoured and DMC3 is how true replayability is done).
 
I hope the transition between the platforming and the fighting is very smooth, almost instantaneous.

A few seconds of waiting for the battle to load is super annoying after hundreds of hours of play.

Maybe it can be like Muramasa the demon blade. Those transitions into fight mode were super fast.
 
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I don't know if questions are still a thing, but would the Mario Rpg's also end up being an influence?

Aka being able to actually dodge enemy attacks within a turn based combat system via timing button presses and whatnot.
 
I don't know if questions are still a thing, but would the Mario Rpg's also end up being an influence?

Aka being able to actually dodge enemy attacks within a turn based combat system via timing button presses and whatnot.

SMRPG's attack timing mechanic is still one of my favorites. It could be utilized for both offense and defense, and made it possible to finish the game (for the most part) without needing to grind because almost every enemy attack was blockable as long as the player timed it correctly.
 
Oh man i missed out on so much great news. :-/
Been in a clinic for the last 6 weeks and sadly going back tomorrow again. ;_;
Looking forward to more news on this new IP, btw is there any news on the pre-order bonus for SG in the EU region. Or should i preorder the US version just in case. Right now i only have a vita with an EU account. You can count on my money.
Hope things turn out well for you.