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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

Whatever the combat will be, we have Mike to balance it, so it'll probably end up as "easy to play, hard to master" and "no overpowered combos/single best way to face an opponent".

which is fine for me
 
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infected melon said:
please have different equippable weapons that actually show during a fight?...pretty please?
I second this.
 
I'd be shocked if the game didn't have plenty of replayability. Min/Maxing your preferred play style, possibly unlocking all the party members (if that's a thing, just speculating), possibly having memorable story events that can be altered by the paths you take, sequence breaking, possibly having multiple difficulties or alt main characters for New Game+ that have different abilities compared to Ajna and have to go through the game in different, possibly harder ways, in order to get to the end. Heck, you could use that to possibly teach players how to sequence break the game, and thus when they return to Ajna they can find the fastest route possible :D

There's plenty of options. I don't it'll have to be super long. So long as I can't beat the first run of story mode in 2 sittings of about 2 hours, I'll be happy.
 
North888 said:
sequence breaking

That'd be with bugs and glitches, if deliberate sequence breaking were to be added to the game, it wouldn't be sequence breaking anymore, it'd be more of "Alternative Routes".

Also you forgot to mention Superbosses, they are always a plus in RPG games, an extra, non-mandatory challenge for the player that requires lots of skill, strategy and grinding, tho some superbosses are harder to reach than to fight (Sirius from Megaman Starforce 3 for example).
 
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Oh yeah, post game bosses are definitely fun and such, as are secret or optional bosses.

Dio Brando said:
That'd be with bugs and glitches, if deliberate sequence breaking were to be added to the game, it wouldn't be sequence breaking anymore, it'd be more of "Alternative Routes".
Not true, actually. To sequence break is to go out of the unintended order in a game. To break the normal linear sequence of events. Metroid games do purposefully do this. Fusion has a fun little easter egg you can find specifically BY sequence breaking. It's not an alternate route, we're talking about getting early access to normally inaccessible areas through really ridiculous methods that often abuse the game's own logic, physics, and tools to get results you're normally not used to. Purposefully placed sequence breaking is moreso hidden paths than alternate routes.

You put in tons of effort and are able to do that super jump on the 1 frame of Shinespark you get at the end of a short passage over a chasm you normally need to climb through, effectively allowing access to a new powerup you'd be getting about 30 minutes for the purpose of solving a totally different puzzle.

That's an iffy example, but I feel it illustrates my point.
 
While Super Metroid has a bunch of weird exploits, I think the devs had to be aware of a lot of them. We know that at least Wall jumps and Bomb jumps were intentionally put in the game, and those techniques were designed almost exclusively for sequence breaking. They must have had some idea of what those could offer the player at certain points.

Likewise, I think Lab Zero will offer plenty of little tricks in this game, and just wait to see how we'll utilize them. I'm really curious to see how Beta/Demo feedback might gradually influence the game's design, especially for the combat. JRPG style games have often been very closed off to the public during development, but if Mike Z can be nearly as flexible for this game as he was for Skullgirls, then that means we might be in for one of the most fun and nuanced ATB systems ever!
 
Cellsai said:
Attributing an ideal flat length to a game before anyone knows basically anything about the game. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you people?

Herein lies the problem with the existence of this thread.

We still don't know jack.

I hope the first revealed character is named Jack so this post can be funny.
 
KaboomKid said:
While Super Metroid has a bunch of weird exploits, I think the devs had to be aware of a lot of them. We know that at least Wall jumps and Bomb jumps were intentionally put in the game, and those techniques were designed almost exclusively for sequence breaking.
Wall jumps and bomb jumps don't actually get you a lot compared to say Mockball, which allows you to skip an entire miniboss. I wouldn't say the developers were aware of "a lot of them". I'd personally bet they didn't even know about midair Shinespark.

I did enjoy the reward for the Shinespark sequence that Fusion gave you but I wouldn't call that a sequence break. I'm not at all above leaving sequence breaks via player techniques in, but building specific hidden paths is really lame, in my opinion.
 
Well, with good wall jumping and bomb jumping, you can skip the Kraid fight and actually fight him last out of all the pre-Tourian encounters, which is pretty significant (not exactly a speed run tactic, since it takes more time, but tanking through Norfair pre-gravity suit it is an interesting and challenging objective to pursue).

I imagine they may have guessed that moves like wall jumping, bomb jumping, and shine sparking might allow minor skips or early item acquisition, so they simply tried to avoid making it possible to get permanently stuck anywhere and left it at that.
 
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Well, when I was talking intentional sequence breaking, I more meant you design the game in such a way that the tools given to players allows them multiple paths, given they have the skills and ridiculous timings to pull it off. Setting the abilities up to allow the player to get where they need to go how they please, if you will, even if it opens up possible ridiculousness like skipping whole mini-boss fights XD
 
Mike_Z said:
Wall jumps and bomb jumps don't actually get you a lot compared to say Mockball, which allows you to skip an entire miniboss.
Actually, Mockball would be the first thing I'd want to know the devs' opinion on. Ever since you found it, it just seemed to fit some areas so perfectly, like that automatic door sequence in Norfair. Heck, all of those automatic doors practically teased people into discovering it. Those things might as well have just been replaced with some lame speed booster blocks, or something. While I'm sure it was a glitch that they didn't intend people to use, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something they just quietly ignored while bugfixing.

At least, I'd be less surprised if they knew about Mockball, than if they knew about all of the X-Ray Scope stuff.
 
I don't know, the devs that worked on metroid normally show that they know about some things. I don't know much about super metroid, but in zero mission, they were aware even about horizontal bomb jumping, and the game has a lot of alternative routes if you decide to skip any upgrade (like the alternative escape route after mother brain if you don't have speedboost)

But maybe the devs didn't know much about the skips and sequence breaking when they made super metroid, and then, they learned, and that is why fusion don't have sequence breaking at all (secret message doesn't count, since they make you go all the way back and restart on the normal route), and then, they received the feedback from the fans, and zero mission is like of intentional sequence breaking, while still having a set path for newcomers in general.
 
KaboomKid said:
Actually, Mockball would be the first thing I'd want to know the devs' opinion on. Ever since you found it, it just seemed to fit some areas so perfectly, like that automatic door sequence in Norfair. Heck, all of those automatic doors practically teased people into discovering it. Those things might as well have just been replaced with some lame speed booster blocks, or something. While I'm sure it was a glitch that they didn't intend people to use, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something they just quietly ignored while bugfixing.
The fact that Mockball works on those pillars is a side effect of the developers making the pillar come down JUST ENOUGH so that a running Samus doesn't fit but a Speed Boosting Samus does, which was done to add tension since you "just barely didn't make it". Don't confuse it with them intentionally allowing an esoteric glitch with very strict execution parameters to continue to exist on purpose. Occam's Razor.
Also if they knew about Mockball vs the pillars they probably would have fixed things like the camera glitch that happens when you do it to get the Super Missiles.
If you want another example, the Golden Torizo code gives you Spazer+Plasma and lets you freeze the game by shooting, so the developers likely knew about that happening...so if they thought S+P was at all doable they'd have fixed that too, given what an easy fix it would be.
 
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North888 said:
Not true, actually. To sequence break is to go out of the unintended order in a game. To break the normal linear sequence of events. Metroid games do purposefully do this. Fusion has a fun little easter egg you can find specifically BY sequence breaking. It's not an alternate route, we're talking about getting early access to normally inaccessible areas through really ridiculous methods that often abuse the game's own logic, physics, and tools to get results you're normally not used to. Purposefully placed sequence breaking is moreso hidden paths than alternate routes.

I know the message, i've got it before and that one is intentional as the Metroid team does acknowledge the existence of sequence breaking, even the Retro Studios team that developed the Prime games know about it, but in like, over 95% of cases sequence breaking is not meant to be done, it's mostly finding glitches and tricks that can help you get items or portions of the game faster.
 
Wonder if TJ Maximum will be a character. The trailer had someone very similar to him
 
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ArgonBern said:
Wonder if TJ Maximum will be a character. The trailer had someone very similar to him
I've heard that name several times now but I can't find anything about it. Who is TJ Maximum?
 
Squire Grooktook said:
Well, with good wall jumping and bomb jumping, you can skip the Kraid fight and actually fight him last out of all the pre-Tourian encounters, which is pretty significant
I am unsure whether you are referring to iceless red tower or hellruns here, but in both cases you need a lot more than just walljumps to be able to skip Kraid

KaboomKid said:
We know that at least Wall jumps were intentionally put in the game
I am very unsure whether the Walljumps that are relevant for Sequence Breaking (singlewall walljumps) were intended

Mike_Z said:
they'd have fixed that too, given what an easy fix it would be.
I'm still confused by what they did to enemy damage with the Suits, it makes no sense

P.S. Some Beta playtester should've told them about Crouchlock 8[

-----

OnTopic, it will be like Child of Light, except with actual platforming and proper combat, .. so not really like Child of Light, but ya know
 
IsaVulpes said:
I am unsure whether you are referring to iceless red tower or hellruns here, but in both cases you need a lot more than just walljumps to be able to skip Kraid

Unfamiliar with the terminology, but my route was basically:

-Grab extra energy tanks and stuff in Brinstar via walljump and bomb jump
-Grab Power Bomb before entering Norfair (I THINK)
-Dash through Norfair, build up energy again in the non heated "bubble" area next to save room
-Grab Super speed and wave beam (I THINK, can't remember if I got the latter)
-Return to Crateria and use Shine Spark to reach Wrecked Ship and Phantoon
-Get Gravity Suit and proceed through Mardia and beat boss there
-Go to Norfair and kill Ridley
-Kill Kraid
-Tourian

At least I think that's how it went IIRC. It's been a LONG time, but I still have the save data with all bosses beaten except Kraid on my cartridge.
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
I've heard that name several times now but I can't find anything about it. Who is TJ Maximum?
One of the Ahad's most ridiculous character designs. He looks like a demon of sorts and completely over-the-top. I think Alex deleted site where TJ's sketches were uploaded but maybe someone has pictures saved.
As of him being Indi character - I'm not sure. He was pictured giving da bird to archangel Michael, so it looks like he belongs to some christian-related setting with which Indi shouldn't have much in common.
 
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Super tiny but you get the idea

LiCMdDp.png


ttq3yyx.png
 
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Not-So-Saint said:
One of the Ahad's most ridiculous character designs.
EXCUSE ME???


Nah forreal tho I see the similarity in that mask/face design.
 
Ive never played or seen Valkyria Chronicles gameplay so I dont know what to expect on that front.

I do however love Metroidvanias a ton so this will most likely be a day one backing or buy from me. Characters already look charming too!
 
Excarius said:
Ive never played or seen Valkyria Chronicles gameplay so I dont know what to expect on that front.

You can get a pretty good idea of what Valkryie Profile's combat is capable of from this post with a video a few pages back. Though, Valkyrie Profile is only going to be the inspiration for the combat. I'm sure the demo we'll get close to the start of the CF campaign will give you a good idea of how it'll play in general.
 
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Excarius said:
Ive never played or seen Valkyria Chronicles gameplay so I dont know what to expect on that front.

I do however love Metroidvanias a ton so this will most likely be a day one backing or buy from me. Characters already look charming too!
Valkyria Chonicles IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT BEAST! XD That's a SRPG with pseudo real time action elements, tanks, and ancient energy spears. Its still good, but quite surprised anyone managed to mix it up.
 
You know what else is gonna be awesome about this?

Skullgirls style animated monsters. Like, we got a taste of it with Double, but,
every enemy is going to have that quality of animation, and I really doubt all, or at least that many of them will be human.
 
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It looks like Dust: An Elysian tale.
 
Change thread name to "Indivisible: Lab zero's metroidvania-but-not-really project"?
 
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...there's a "Follow" button in the top right?
 
Welp, no there isn't for me. Intriguing.

EDIT: Seems Ghostery was overzealous in protecting me from stuff. Solved.
 
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