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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

why can something like the last of us or tomb raider run on a ps3 but skullgirls and now indivisible strain the system?
 
1)Both run at half the frame rate to boost graphical fidelity, with the last of us still having some frame drops
b)2d sprites, if I'm not being an idiot here, don't really use VRAM
 
ah. googled vram and it makes sense now thanks.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
Is it because you call stupid people tapirs or you just call tapirs stupid?
I guess English has the same thing with donkeys and asses going on.
DapperEntity said:
Except a donkey is actually useful :P

On a serious note, end of September is approaching. $50 in imaginary money I don't have says crowdfunding starts on the 31st.

We call stupid people "antas".

Curiously, the translation for donkey (asno) and ass (burro) are also used as slurs for stupidity.

More useful stuff:

Idiot = Idiota
Imbecile = Imbecil
Stupidity = Estupidez
Retard = Retardado
Silly = Bobo (masc) or Boba (fem)
 
Wtf. Skullheart hasn't been notifying me of posts here. Nearly missed a whole page!

I really hope you do a Ps4 release XD I'm not updating my 360 Library anymore and I wouldn't mind having the game on Pc and Ps4 =3
 
FakeangeL said:
2d sprites, if I'm not being an idiot here, don't really use VRAM
This is incorrect, it's that our 2D sprites require the CPU to do work on textures each frame, which the PS3 doesn't handle well if you want to fill up VRAM with textures.

Tank said:
why can something like the last of us or tomb raider run on a ps3 but skullgirls and now indivisible strain the system?
As was already mentioned, Last of Us and Tomb Raider run at 30 FPS (or under) on PS3. SG runs at 60, mostly. That means each frame on SG has half the time to do everything it needs to do.
If SG ran at 30? No problems ever, and would have saved me a ton of work! Except that it would feel like BUTTASS.

For a real-world comparison - if you run at 1080p on PS3 (forced, by disabling 720 in the PS3's display settings), put Peacock/Big Band vs Peacock/Big Band, drop 2 Lennys and tag in both Bands, then have 1 Band do Tympany to the other while both calling Peacock...that's around 48-46 FPS on PS3...and it looks and feels like CRAP compared to 60, doesn't it? :^P

Roughly speaking:
Each time you want a 2D character to look different, it's a new drawing. If the sprites are large a new drawing takes a lot of space.
In 3D, the model takes up a lot of space with textures etc, but AFTER you make the model, each time you want a 3D character to look different it is a new animation frame stored as joint transformations, which is a fancy way of saying "it's some numbers in a row".

Once you get to fighting game character complexity / number of animations, properly-compressed 3D takes up much less space than compressed 2D. And adding a new animation to a 3D character takes up MUCH less space than adding a new animation to a 2D character. One animation frame on Skullgirls compresses to an average of 60-80K. (Big Band's frames can be upwards of 200K.) An entire 3D ANIMATION can fit in 80K.

Skullgirls fits 6 high-res characters in a space that BlazBlue could only fit 2 - and they had to take out frames from Tager when they gave him Gadget Finger in CS.
To do that, it does a lot of CPU decompression for textures, each frame.
Indivisible displays more sprites on average per frame than SG, with enemies walking around and stuff. It also will need to support bigger sprites than SG ever had.
This means more CPU work, which means the VRAM / CPU RAM separation on PS3 is an even bigger cause of slowdown.

3D games like Last of Us do the following (generally):
Put a bunch of textures in VRAM, once. Each frame, send new vertices to the graphics card which reuses existing textures to render 3D polygons. This means putting textures in VRAM can be slow and that's fine for 3D games.

Skullgirls updates the sprite texture per frame, because it needs to decompress the sprite data (which is big, remember, so it has to be compressed) on the CPU. Which means SG has to deal with that same slowness, each frame, and work around it. I'm continually surprised it runs at 60 at all! :^P
Doing palettization (that thing that changes your 1P color to 2P color) in shaders is also super expensive, because modern hardware got rid of that built-in ability. Old hardware had the ability to specify that a texture was palettized and pass it a palette and the hardware would do it for you! Oh well...
For comparison, modern graphics cards have the 3D lighting equation (very complicated) built in as a single instruction, because it is used commonly, which saves a massive amount of time for 3D. SG can't use that at all.
 
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Being a 3D animator, a 3D model loads it's polys. The more edges, the larger amount of memory's needed. But once loaded, there no need to change the Poly count. Some models even come with extra "faces", where you use switches to hide/reveal poly groups that's still in memory. After that, it's the Rendering's job to maintain the frame count on the detail. Taking Smash Bros Brawl for an example: A character's move set is a compiled single file, which is also loaded into memory. Then all it has to do, say for the waiting animation, read "Wait1" and every bone has a Key Frame, or a frame where it's locked and will not move. The engine will take Key Frame 1 and move the bone to KF2. No effort on memory. Just rendering and what not. The entire move set of Zero Suit Samus is 3.4MB, while the model is 1.7MB (this is a Kit Ballard replaced model). A rather stark contrast to a 2D drawn figure, where every frame is an image. Think of a GIF. That's basically what's going on for every action you see.

edit: Ninja'd by Mike Z and my slow ass internet XD
 
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Now to scramble about for pocket change.
 
Ravidrath said:
Don't forget that Skullgirls IGG backers will get the prototype first!

I'll be added to your HB pages next Friday!
This might be the best typo I've ever read. Never fix it, please.
 
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So is it all SG backers or just those that received something through HB before?

Just curious cuz I was really broke back then and only able to donate like a dollar...
 
cool. oct 5th. can't wait.
images
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Why would someone fluent in english want a translation?
Lots of reasons.
Like he said you might want to share it with other people who don't speak English. Someone might also prefer playing a game in their first language, even if they are fluent in other languages.
 
For real why not a polish translation or pashtun, oh wait they all cost money. Only so many can be done I'm surprised there's a Russian trans.
 
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I don't know about the demographics, but there's around 60 million native italian speakers and 90 million native german speakers when there's around 215 million portuguese speakers, it just seems like it would make more sense to have a translated version for that (there's also ~150 million russian speakers btw).
 
CaioLugon said:
I don't know about the demographics, but there's around 60 million native italian speakers and 90 million native german speakers when there's around 215 million portuguese speakers, it just seems like it would make more sense to have a translated version for that (there's also ~150 million russian speakers btw).

That´s a lot of people but "in the videogame world", portuguese speakers play more games that german/ italian? that´s a fact that´s matter to capitalize the important languages transl, tought.
 
Wenzel said:
That´s a lot of people but "in the videogame world", portuguese speakers play more games that german/ italian?
man have you seen the internet?

But really though, that's what I mean with the demographic
 
CaioLugon said:
man have you seen the internet?

But really though, that's what I mean with the demographic
What is the cost of translated subtitles?
 
Guys. Guys. Look, it's a Prototype. They only have so much time dedicated to this side project to get out the door. If Lab Zero was a Japanese Company, the prototype would of been in Japanese only. It's the way business runs. They are being semi-paid for getting this done. To get interest rolling for the game, they wanted to give out a small taste. They could of just stuck with a freaking video like most campaigns do, but these guys are about transparancy. They KNOW that this stuff helps. Having a select couple of languages already is luck in general. They are being pressured to get this thing started ,If they wait any longer, due to adding some extra stuff, then they have a good chance of loosing the bonus funding..
 
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I'm just refering to the campaign page (which even I would be willing to translate), but actually, did they even announce what languages the full game is going to be available on?
 
CaioLugon said:
I'm just refering to the campaign page (which even I would be willing to translate), but actually, did they even announce what languages the full game is going to be available on?

Nope yet.
 
CaioLugon said:
I'm just refering to the campaign page (which even I would be willing to translate), but actually, did they even announce what languages the full game is going to be available on?

Yes at least initially. the prototype will only be available in English, but the campaign will be translated into French, Italian, German, Spanish, Japanese and Russian. It's possible Portuguese is a stretch goal but these are the game languages.
 
So the campaign will be in a language the games not in?
 
Just trolling, the more languages the better. I can't wait for this to start
 
Ronus said:
So the campaign will be in a language the games not in?
Or the other way around? What YOU said was, PT is not included as a game language because it is not a campaign language. I'm correcting your assumption.
 
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It'll be what it has to be. If it's sucessful and gets tons of money, maybe they could add the translation in the future

Last case scenario, if the texts are stored in an easy to reach and edit path/file/format and have the right character encoding, this could even get a fan translation

who knows?
 
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