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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

I just wanna say this game is looking really good and as always, the art is amazing. Valkyrie Profile is one of my favorite games, so I'm really interested to see what L0 is gonna do with a combat system like that.

Can't wait for the final product!
 
The tapir has a name! And animation!

tumblr_nv1t8fyfcg1uzx2jzo1_540.gif
 
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I remember reading, in an old tweet maybe, that Roti was also Ajna's pet. Those two definitely look like they'd be cute together. She even wears his colors!

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the goals of the prototype is to chase after him through the ruins. Saving a little tapir from danger is the only reason I'd wanna go into that creepy place. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
I liked the logo but... took me some time to understand the second character was a N
 
A rotating camera is a terrible idea for this game, because it involves drawing a shitload of new sprites by several orders of magnitude.

Doom had 8-way sprite rotation. That means that sprites still looked pretty flat because they only changed every 45 degrees, and if Indivisible had a similar amount of rotation it would involve 5 times the artwork for literally every playable character in the game (front, 45 degrees front, side, 45 degrees back, back) unless you want the sprites to stay forever static. And that's for an effect that's dated back to 1992! Final Fantasy Tactics is locked to an isometric angle, and while it has occasional orthogonal sprites none of them are properly animated and thus a true Smash-style camera mode would be impossible. As such, you can only see characters fight from 4 possible vantage points, and even that requires-- you guessed it-- 2 times the artwork minimum (front and back).

A Smash Bros-style pause and go anywhere camera mode is possibly the worst idea I have heard for this game yet.
 
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News from NeoGAF:
Ravidrath said:
Still aiming for September, but... might slip a week.

It's a big campaign with a lot of moving parts - for example, we're localizing it into French, Italian, German, Spanish, Japanese and Russian.

And we also have to set up distribution for the prototype.
Thank you, based Lab Zero Games! =O
I really REALLY hope, finished game will have Russian version!
 
Broken Loose said:
*Snip*

I believe people were asking for an effect like this:
Don't remember exactly where but it was done in a few newer games and it looked nicely for me.
 
Kawalorn said:
I believe people were asking for an effect like this:
Don't remember exactly where but it was done in a few newer games and it looked nicely for me.
No, that's just background trickery - Battletoads did it on the NES. THAT stuff, we can do, but I dunno if we want to.
They specifically asked about moving the camera around in 3D while the game is paused.

Oh wait, I wasn't responding to this thread anymore...
 
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Mike_Z said:
Oh wait, I wasn't responding to this thread anymore...
We really appreciate your presence though. Well, I'm supposed to be speaking for myself, at least, but I'm pretty sure I am not the only one.
 
My bad then.

Though I didn't mean the trick itself, but more like, when you move the background tilts, but the sprites don't. I think that kind of thing could work and was done here and there.

I just didn't have a better example.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
News from NeoGAF:

Thank you, based Lab Zero Games! =O
I really REALLY hope, finished game will have Russian version!
Wait, like dub and stuff too or just text with an English dub?

If you go for a localized dub you better choose the Italian one carefully. We have a long tradition of terribly dubbed games, even though we have one of the best dubbing schools in Europe/the world (actually I don't know much about that but still very good). We get good-amazing dubs in only films, anime (from the 2000s ones at least) and Blizzard games.
 
Wouldn't that be more up to 505 or any international distributers? I mean I know you guys wanna do voices and all, but would localizing the voicework be like a situation like ArcSys doing a JP dub for SG 2ndE?
 
Maybe it's text only though. Dubs would be a bit too expensive.
 
Mike_Z said:
No, that's just background trickery - Battletoads did it on the NES. THAT stuff, we can do, but I dunno if we want to.
They specifically asked about moving the camera around in 3D while the game is paused.

Oh wait, I wasn't responding to this thread anymore...

So, this wasn't an excuse to start another conversation about Battletoads?
 
Broken Loose said:
A rotating camera is a terrible idea for this game, because it involves drawing a shitload of new sprites by several orders of magnitude.

Doom had 8-way sprite rotation. That means that sprites still looked pretty flat because they only changed every 45 degrees, and if Indivisible had a similar amount of rotation it would involve 5 times the artwork for literally every playable character in the game (front, 45 degrees front, side, 45 degrees back, back) unless you want the sprites to stay forever static. And that's for an effect that's dated back to 1992! Final Fantasy Tactics is locked to an isometric angle, and while it has occasional orthogonal sprites none of them are properly animated and thus a true Smash-style camera mode would be impossible. As such, you can only see characters fight from 4 possible vantage points, and even that requires-- you guessed it-- 2 times the artwork minimum (front and back).

A Smash Bros-style pause and go anywhere camera mode is possibly the worst idea I have heard for this game yet.

we're thinking of different extremes.

The reason for the rotatable camera would be to show off the depth of stuff. In smash when you pause and rotate that's when you really get a sense of depth of the stages. even if its just a little rotation it will give that effect. Kinda like a wiggle stereoscopic 3d image. this probably has about 15 degrees of rotation on either side and gets the effect I'm thinking of. with 15 degrees new sprites probably wouldn't need to be drawn and you still get the same effect.

087d92b7-7460-4c63-9214-e8b80c8bea79.gif


look at this paper mario video at 6:30. the camera rotates up. the sprites stay the same while the back ground adjust to the new angle and everything looks ok. And we get to see more of the stage at that point.

 
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I can't speak for the final design decision, but we could do limited camera motion in-game if the scene called for it.

I doubt we would need or want the camera to be player-controlled, though.
 
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EU03 said:
I can't speak for the final design decision, but we could do limited camera motion in-game if the scene called for it.
Do you guys have an idea yet of how much the finished game will use full 3D models for backgrounds? I think part of the reason Tank originally brought up the rotating camera, was because he noticed some of the BGs in the prototype were using mostly 3D rendered shapes. That doesn't necessarily look like the style you guys are planning for the finished game though.

Like, the outdoor areas shown so far seem more reminiscent of the BGs in Skullgirls, where the mixture of 3D and 2D assets achieve a more "hand-made" appearance. That style meshes really well with the sprites, so I feel like that's closer to the look you guys are aiming for.
 
ArgonBern said:
Wait, like dub and stuff too or just text with an English dub?

If you go for a localized dub you better choose the Italian one carefully. We have a long tradition of terribly dubbed games, even though we have one of the best dubbing schools in Europe/the world (actually I don't know much about that but still very good). We get good-amazing dubs in only films, anime (from the 2000s ones at least) and Blizzard games.
What? Dub on all the other languages will be really costly and bothersome. Remember: they said that even for english dub main goal includes only battle lines. There's no way they going to localize dubs.

KaboomKid said:
Do you guys have an idea yet of how much the finished game will use full 3D models for backgrounds? I think part of the reason Tank originally brought up the rotating camera, was because he noticed some of the BGs in the prototype were using mostly 3D rendered shapes. That doesn't necessarily look like the style you guys are planning for the finished game though.

Like, the outdoor areas shown so far seem more reminiscent of the BGs in Skullgirls, where the mixture of 3D and 2D assets achieve a more "hand-made" appearance. That style meshes really well with the sprites, so I feel like that's closer to the look you guys are aiming for.
Peter said that it has more to do with level design. Some places will be unique setpieces handdrawn by environment artists. Some key locations maybe or stuff like that, while majority of levels will be put together with more common 3D technology.

ravidrath said:
We'll see how it goes, but we're working to make the 3D-built sections look more consistent with the setpieces with some texture and lighting changes.
They're built in completely different ways, so getting consitency between them is tricky.
 
Once we have the time and money, I think we should be able make a much more comprehensive and versatile texture library that will help make the environment look less disparate, and possibly be able to touch up the baked shadows by hand. As for now, we don't have such luxuries for the prototype.
 
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Osmiumsmith said:
Curious facts: In brazilian portuguese tapirs are also known as "Anta".

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapirus

"Anta" is also a slur applied to a stupid, idiotic person.
Is it because you call stupid people tapirs or you just call tapirs stupid?
I guess English has the same thing with donkeys and asses going on.
 
Not-So-Saint said:
I guess English has the same thing with donkeys and asses going on.
Except a donkey is actually useful :P

On a serious note, end of September is approaching. $50 in imaginary money I don't have says crowdfunding starts on the 31st.
 
Shadowfury333 said:
That's a fool's bet, you know there's no Sept 31st.
Of course there is. Next you'll try to tell me that there's no February 30th.

Let's try not to de-rail the topic though. Uhh. Uhh.
Any news on when Skullgirls backers are gettin' the prototype, or have I missed the news?
*Says the person who only got this game in June
 
It's stated on the devblog that skullgirl backers will recieve the prototype build a few days before it is publicly released. Supposedly the crowdfund will be started simultaneously with the public release.
 
Ambiguity said:
It's stated on the devblog that skullgirl backers will recieve the prototype build a few days before it is publicly released. Supposedly the crowdfund will be started simultaneously with the public release.
The public release will be via a link on the crowdfunding page, so that's not really "supposedly". :^)

I hate it when companies do announcements-for-announcements, but I now understand why they do:
Likely next Monday, we are going to FINALLY BE ABLE to announce the crowdfunding date. Sigh.
 
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Mike_Z said:
The public release will be via a link on the crowdfunding page, so that's not really "supposedly". :^)

I hate it when companies do announcements-for-announcements, but I now understand why they do:
Likely next Monday, we are going to FINALLY BE ABLE to announce the crowdfunding date. Sigh.
Teasing the announcement of the announcement? That's thinking like a AAA, now!
 
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I forget. NDV is NOT going to ps3 right?
 
Tank said:
I forget. NDV is NOT going to ps3 right?

Nnnnnnnope. We're done trying to work within the PS3's memory limitations.
 
render said:
We're done trying to work within the PS3's memory limitations
I will never understand why they thought that was a good idea.
 
Squire Grooktook said:
Without watching that video, are we talking about Mode 7? Mode 7 is cool, but yeah it's not the same stuff.
I think the video was displaying Parallax scrolling but the screen rotating stuff in later stages of Ghouls and Ghosts is the mode 7 goodness.
 
AdenPhoenix said:
I will never understand why they thought that was a good idea.
PS2 had 32MB of RAM. 256MB of CPU RAM and 256MB of video RAM is a huge step up, and they divided it because when you are using un-changing textures it's fine to slowly put them into video-card RAM one time.

PaperBag_Sniper said:
I think the video was displaying Parallax scrolling but the screen rotating stuff in later stages of Ghouls and Ghosts is the mode 7 goodness.
It's not really parallax, parallax is different parts of the screen moving at different rates to simulate 3D like the floor in SF2. That's more just, changing the background to make it look like the CAMERA is moving in 3D. Like I said, Battletoads did it on the NES.
 
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render said:
Nnnnnnnope. We're done trying to work within the PS3's memory limitations.

Good, It's time to move on lol. No more limitations.
 
Doktor, release my memory inhibitors.
 
Mike_Z said:
It's not really parallax, parallax is different parts of the screen moving at different rates to simulate 3D like the floor in SF2. That's more just, changing the background to make it look like the CAMERA is moving in 3D. Like I said, Battletoads did it on the NES.
I'm pretty sure I remember the boat level of SG&G having some parallax stuff but battletoads definitely did it too.
 
render said:
Nnnnnnnope. We're done trying to work within the PS3's memory limitations.
That just gives me another reason ot get a ps4. (Assuming you are console releasing at all.)
 
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