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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

From Kinuko on Twitter:
shhhhhh
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In other news, Inside-Games article has a Ajna cutout on white.
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Change thread name to "Indivisible: Lab zero's metroidvania-but-not-really project"?
Agreed. A new title like "Indivisible: Lab Zero's new Action RPG" would be a good fit. Metroidvania doesn't fully describe it.
 
Is it just me, or does she kind of look like a tan Sakura from Street Fighter? Not that that's a bad thing, Sakura kinda sorta got me into fighting games...
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The only similarity I see between them is that they both have strong legs.
 
Now, one thing that intrigued me, will Ajna have different sprites for each side?
 
I wonder, are the party members going to have an effect on exploration? A couple bits of speculation on my part:

-Certain chars act like permanent ability upgrades, giving Ajna either new abilities, teaching her stuff, or their presence in the party allows them to help Ajna clear obstacles not initially possibly.

-Your party layout gives Ajna different abilities in addition to her current arsenal. This one would take a lot more effort to balance so that you could still clear the platforming puzzles with any party setup while stilling making the puzzles interesting and not relying specifically on just Ajna's abilities. Not what I see them doing.

I'm really wondering how party members play into all this? Are they battle only or do they have an active effect on Ajna and her exploration abilities?
 
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The color scheme is similar.
Blue short-skirt, white top and hair-piece, red highlighting.
The comparison's there.
 
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I shouldn't have to spell this out but I don't think Lab Zero would appreciate being told this character looks like someone from Street Fighter.
 
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What are you talking about, the thread title's always said "action RPG" and not "metroidvania"
=v

That Ajna idle sprite looks awesome, can't wait to see it animated
 
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Might as well mention this here (not sure where else to do it), but I got to meet Alex Ahad at Comic Con on Friday.

I told him I was a big fan of Skullgirls and his art, and that I was really looking forward to Indivisible. He was very humble and grateful for all his success, and said that he felt he was "still learning" when I asked him what it was like to finally make it into games. Seemed like a great guy.
 
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Posted on Indivisible's tumblr and twitter, in order to answer the question of how long Ajna's skirt is.
I will just go ahead and assume it's going to be her inventory.
 
Almost looks like a fighting game intro. Wait a minute...
 
I like how the back of her hair curls up when she goes to tie her dress.
 
so according to the new update on LZ's web site they said this concerning the playable prototype:
Skullgirls backers will get it before anyone else, so keep an eye on your e-mail and our social media accounts!

Sounds neat.
 
So I guess by "Skullgirls Backers" they mean people who backed them on the IndieGoGo DLC campaign.

That truly is a gift that keeps giving.
 
To anyone who gets the chance to play the prototype, remember to post a video or two if you're allowed
 
I wonder if there's a threshold for which backers get access to the prototype, 'cause I regrettably only donated only 10$ during the crowd funding.
 
yay
now we just have to wait for walking
jk who the hell even wanted to walk in platformers
 
This might be kind of shallow on my part, but when I heard that it was inspired by Super Metroid, my first reaction was but will it have sequence breaking?

Because sequence breaking is a big part of why I play Metroid at all. The lack thereof was a big part of why I hated Metroid Fusion, and the primary reason that I'm staying the hell away from Other M. I can suffer through stupid plots, but strict sequence in a Metroid game? No thanks! But then again, given how much Mike Z loves Metroid, and given how sadistic he is toward it, I don't really think I need to worry about that.

What really strikes me as odd and perhaps troubling is the idea of Valkyrie Profile style combat in a Metroid-like exploration game. Valkyrie Profile, like a lot of RPGs, partitions the gameplay into "exploration" and "combat". Metroid integrates these two like any 2D action game with exploration elements would. Valkyrie Profile's style method might be right for Valkyrie Profile, but it certainly isn't right for Metroid. I don't want the game flow to be interrupted by combat, especially not since game flow is very important in Super Metroid.

I guess what we should be asking is what would be to gain if we were to combine VP with SM. Are there flaws in one that could be covered up with elements from the other? Are their strengths in one that the other might interfere with?
 
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Your concerns don't seem so shallow given a lot of the conversations going on. From what we've heard, they plan on integrating combat into a more fluid sequence, which probably means a fluid transition to combat as opposed to suddenly being pulled into combat. Wether that means like Chrono Trigger or general RPG transition, we don't know. Regardless, I don't think it'll be a problem nor flow breaking. L0 knows how to keep pace up, they did make a fighting game after all. A good fighting game knows how to keep its pace pretty well despite the transitions between neutral and the other phases, and SG does that well. We can trust them.

Sequence Breaking is usually unintentional, so I'd assume Mike might make it more open, but he stated as a reply to me that building in sequence breaking specific points would be kinda lame, or just those types of areas, so maybe expect alternate sequences or an openness for your own solutions, but I don't think we'll necessarily be getting exactly sequence breaking in the way Metroid has it.
 
I think sequence breaking is unintentional by definition. If the game intended you to have options for progressing, then it's just a case of the game world being more open, not the "sequence" of the game being "broken".
 
oh wow first time i'm hearing about this new game. Has the indiegogo started yet?
 
oh wow first time i'm hearing about this new game. Has the indiegogo started yet?
Nope, they're making a playable prototype first. SG backers get first look, but the crowd funder will start soon after we've had a little time to at least touch the prototype.
 
Yeah, I hope L0 manages to get the prototype out a little while before the actual crowdfunding begins. That'd hopefully give them enough time to deal with some of the bugs before getting bogged down with PR and promotional stuff. It's great when a game project has an actual demo, but the downside is sometimes having to watch the devs be distracted with controller/driver/framerate issues, instead of focusing on the campaign itself. "My controller doesn't work." "Problems with Windows 8." "When's it coming to VITA???" Yikes!

Speaking of the combat though, I think the VP style fighting will probably work out fine with Metroid style platforming. I don't think combat was ever really the focal point of Metroid anyway, as much as it was exploring the map and finding new paths and secrets. So, a unique system for combat could compliment the exploration pretty well, add a layer to the pacing and storytelling experience, and maybe even provide incentives for certain types of items/upgrades that wouldn't feel as practical in a traditional platformer. Like, spells in SOTN were kind of pointless, but a similar spell system could play a huge role in Indivisible. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
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Speaking of the combat though, I think the VP style fighting will probably work out fine with Metroid style platforming. I don't think combat was ever really the focal point of Metroid anyway, as much as it was exploring the map and finding new paths and secrets.
See, this is exactly why I'm worried. Navigation and exploration are the point of Metroid and the combat is just in there to mix things up. Because of that, splitting up the game into COMBAT MODE and TRAVEL MODE would cause a lot of problems. You're right that a unique combat system would complement the exploration well... as long as that combat system doesn't interrupt the exploration every time it activates. This can be a problem even in games like Ocarina of Time where the only thing separating the combat from the exploration is holding down a lock on button.
 
See, this is exactly why I'm worried. Navigation and exploration are the point of Metroid and the combat is just in there to mix things up. Because of that, splitting up the game into COMBAT MODE and TRAVEL MODE would cause a lot of problems. You're right that a unique combat system would complement the exploration well... as long as that combat system doesn't interrupt the exploration every time it activates. This can be a problem even in games like Ocarina of Time where the only thing separating the combat from the exploration is holding down a lock on button.
I don't think that's a problem at all. It depends more on balance between the mode, the transition between them, and system mechanics than the modes/states themselves. Execution is everything, and until we know how it will be executed there's not much point in worrying.
 
True, but if given a choice between a Metroid-like with integrated combat and exploration and a Metroid-like with segregated combat and exploration, I'd choose the former every time, unless the latter was really good in other ways.
 
It's also worth saying that
the game was called a Metroidvania just because that was the closest descriptor they had to describe the exploration style, by no means are Lab Zero setting out to make a Super Metroid 2, so saying that the game shouldn't do X because X doesn't work for Metroid is kinda irrelevant.
 
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I guess it's just that Metroid, especially Super, is close enough to my heart that I am one of those people Mike mentioned in the Q&A for whom "This game will be inspired by Super Metroid!" is a very specific descriptor.
 
See, this is exactly why I'm worried. Navigation and exploration are the point of Metroid and the combat is just in there to mix things up. Because of that, splitting up the game into COMBAT MODE and TRAVEL MODE would cause a lot of problems.
Well, what I was getting at was, I don't think having a dedicated combat system necessarily takes away from anything that Metroid does well. You'll probably still be able to navigate the world as elegantly as you'd expect, only now you might have to be more deliberate about how you want to deal with the enemies in a room. Like you said, it mixes things up.

Like, let's take the Work Robots from Wrecked Ship, and imagine getting too close to them would trigger a really difficult battle. This would make the timing of your jumps around them a bit more important, or even how you pushed them around the room from a distance (imagine Ajna having a ranged weapon for this sort of purpose). You could still navigate the rooms like before, but if you were too reckless, it might take everything in your inventory to help you survive the fights.

On that note, resource and inventory management could also help encourage the exploration. Maybe some enemies wouldn't be hard to kill on their own, but since you couldn't just tank (or damage boost) your way through them, the resources needed to take them out could add up over time. That sort of tension could add a greater emphasis on learning the map, and finding alternate routes around rooms full of enemies. In these situations, you'd still be using the same navigation senses you typically use in a Metroid game, but just in a different way, with different risks involved.

So yeah, I think these sorts of ideas could actually flow very well together. I can see this game bringing us an experience that feels familiar, but still unique in a lot of ways. I'm really looking forward to seeing what L0 comes up with.
 
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Like, let's take the Work Robots from Wrecked Ship, and imagine getting too close to them would trigger a really difficult battle. This would make the timing of your jumps around them a bit more important, or even how you pushed them around the room from a distance (imagine Ajna having a ranged weapon for this sort of purpose). You could still navigate the rooms like before, but if you were too reckless, it might take everything in your inventory to help you survive the fights.

I don't see how any of that would complement exploration. It would be frustrating to run into one and then have to deal with it before resuming your exploration. The way SM handles combat works well because you can still navigate the world quickly and fluidly even while dodging and shooting the enemies. One thing that makes Metroid games nice is that they can be finished quickly (making them prime candidates for replays, and in turn speed and other challenge runs) even though there are still many hours of gameplay there if you want to 100% the game or even just sight-see. The fact that you can get from one end of the map to the other in about 5 minutes in Super Metroid is really, really important to this. This is what separates Metroid from many other exploration-focused games of the NES and SNES eras.

I don't know, maybe I'm just ADHD and can't games breaking my trance with different types of challenges.

I agree with what you said about inventory management, though.