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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

KZN02 said:
Stumbled upon this on DeviantArt. This guy doesn't particularly like how animeseque projects succeed moreso than others, taking Indivisible as an example.
hmmmm... I'm guessing this guys hasn't looked at any of Alex's art. or heck just some of the concept art which we know will be translated into the game. Either way you can't win em all, and it's best not to argue with their opinions. They tend not to listen...
 
KZN02 said:
Stumbled upon this on DeviantArt. This guy doesn't particularly like how animeseque projects succeed moreso than others, taking Indivisible as an example.
Well, firstly, you can't compare a game to an animated short or episode - the game has replay value, involves the player, and can be different each time, while the episode/short is passively consumed. Nothing against that - the episode/short might be brilliant, but it's a different type of entertainment, so the audience is different.

That said - I don't have a DA account so I can't post a response, but here:
@ this person, the major difference is exposure. Had I heard of the Purdy or Caprice campaigns I would have backed the HECK out of both! It's a LOT of work to make sure people hear about you, and neither of those did a good job of making sure people knew about them. As someone involved in the campaign he derided, I will vouch for the fact that we were out there getting interviews, drumming up support, and talking about the project CONSTANTLY.
Heck, John Dilworth (Courage) did an AMA on Reddit during the Purdy campaign where he DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THE KICKSTARTER IN THE TOPIC! In fact, it took someone asking him in the questions for him to mention it at all. That's really poor publicity! Contrasting that with our AMA, even though his has more points, every single person that came to ours was immediately presented with the campaign so a lot more people ended up knowing about it. In his, a person that was enough of a fan of Purdy to SPECIFICALLY ASK about it, wasn't aware of the Kickstarter! That's insane. You can't just put a thing up and expect to do no work and get bathed in money.
(Did this person talk about those campaigns to people while they were in progress?)

Looking at those campaigns, the average backer donation for Purdy was $6736 / 124 people = $54 per person. For Yenny, $958/23 people is $41 per person. For Caprice, $1081 / 23 people = $47 per person. Those are GREAT numbers, just not enough people. It's allllllllllll about exposure. One could do some Google Trends comparisons too but this is enough for now.

I'm not touching the whole "I'm angry that more people don't like what I like, and am going to blame the artists for the opinions of the masses" argument, but all those campaigns could have done a much better job getting themselves noticed, and it would have made ALL the difference. It may not even be that people like anime more, it may just be that those projects were not publicized enough to reach...well...anyone.

[edited a bit for extra info and money-per-backer comparison]
 
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Mike_Z said:
Well, firstly, you can't compare a game to an animated short or episode - the game has replay value, involves the player, and can be different each time, while the episode/short is passively consumed. Nothing against that - the episode/short might be brilliant, but it's a different type of entertainment, so the audience is different.

That said - I don't have a DA account so I can't post a response, but here:
@ this person, the major difference is exposure. Had I heard of the Purdy or Caprice campaigns I would have backed the HECK out of both! It's a LOT of work to make sure people hear about you, and neither of those did a good job of making sure people knew about them. As someone involved in the campaign he derided, I will vouch for the fact that we were out there getting interviews, drumming up support, and talking about the project CONSTANTLY.
Heck, John Dilworth (Courage) did an AMA on Reddit during the Purdy campaign where he DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THE KICKSTARTER IN THE TOPIC! In fact, it took someone asking him in the questions for him to mention it at all. That's really poor publicity! Contrasting that with our AMA, even though his has more points, every single person that came to ours was immediately presented with the campaign so a lot more people ended up knowing about it.
Did this person talk about those campaigns to people while they were in progress?

I'm not touching the whole "I'm angry that more people don't like what I like, and am going to blame the artists for the opinions of the masses" argument, but all those campaigns could have done a much better job getting themselves noticed, and it would have made ALL the difference. It may not even be that people like anime more, it may just be that those projects were not publicized enough to reach...well...anyone.

Was going to mention the self promotion side of it as well. Also, I guess they haven't heard about Cuphead? That was immensely popular when it was first revealed.

As a side note, how is their style more "original" than "anime wannabe"? Have they just never heard of the 1930's?
 
Squire Grooktook said:
I love how I can never tell if people are referencing Metal Gear Rising or Donald Trump anymore.
it's true they're both memes now...

everything is going to turn into memes... that's just the life cycle of things now... it's actually really sad if you sit and think about it.
 
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Ninja said:
it's true they're both memes now...

everything is going to turn into memes... that's just the life cycle of things now... it's actually really sad if you sit and think about it.
d0c.gif

Anyways, some people fail to realize that there is something called artistic style.
 
I mean, it seems a little fucked up to be like "Hey, group of people who are connected through their support of a thing, there's this person somewhere else with absolutely zero publicity or influence who doesn't support this thing, what's up with that?"
 
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KZN02 said:
Stumbled upon this on DeviantArt. This guy doesn't particularly like how animeseque projects succeed moreso than others, taking Indivisible as an example.

It's like Cuphead never existed.

Like how he grouped both Kickstarter and IGG as the same website, as if they both receive more or equal publicity along with funding policy. I mean it's certainly not like Indivisible's campaign was such a huge risk that it scared people, nor was it like the campaign's funding was so slow that even being able to extend was a surprise.

However, I do like how he said "Anime Wannabe" and "actual cartooning" as if they're two different things. To me, it's no better then the fa- I mean ... people who claim that anime are the real thing and cartoons are for kids. I mean it's not like either are pieces of 2D art stringed together to give the sense of life in 2D space, or at least, 2D art. Also what makes something "Anime Wannabe" anyways? Does one have to be Asian for art to be considered anime?

Also according to his logic, really stupid campaigns like Ecchi Wars would've been funded solely because it's anime-esque.
For those who don't watch retsupurae
 
Hey, I'll give the guy one thing. He managed to write an opinion piece that sounds just as dumb as Alex St. John's, while using fewer words.
 
And there's the fact that Indivisible had to get an extension (and only if a certain threshold was reached), and reached its goal with only 2 days to spare, so I wouldn't call it "LOADED with money" at that point.

And regarding the exposure, supporters of the project contributed to spreading the word through blogging, fanart, and so forth. It's that combined effort of everyone that got Indivisible funded.
 
Personally I don't have any interest in backing Classic cartoons in the style of Felix or old Mickey. If we're talking about popular support for western animated TV shows why don't you look at Gargoyles, Batman the Animated Series, Batman Beyond, Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, etc. etc. People bring up these shows constantly on forums and chat rooms and such. This is the kind of stuff that people currently in the 25-35 age group of "people who use the internet and have jobs" grew up watching.

Maybe its just my own personal bias but I think if you want to drum up cash money support for western animation, you'd be better off looking emulate that style.
 
Does he not realize that Indivisible gave a demo and showed they had the ability to do the thing? That goes a long way.
 
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KZN02 said:
Stumbled upon this on DeviantArt. This guy doesn't particularly like how animeseque projects succeed moreso than others, taking Indivisible as an example.
Wow, Not-Ajna's snapback beret is really trendy. To be fair, it is an injustice that Original Protect only got $2.039
 
Wait, who's Bombzo? He reminds me of Squidward, but I thought he was a nod to Cuphead.
 
it's almost like anime fans like to back anime things and old timey cartoon fans like to back old timey cartoon things and there are more anime fans than old timey cartoon fans because most anime fans are around the teen to 30 year old range (as that's when it aired on TV for the most part) and old timey cartoons are way more niche due to them literally dying out and the average age of those who have nostalgia for it are like 62 years old now.

I dunno I think it's dumb that people go "oh it's only getting money because it's anime".

Like yeah that's a lot more appealing of a style for a lot of gamers and people on the internet in general because it's WAY more likely they grew up with it. And then there's stuff like Cuphead which is old timey style and successful, even for non-old-timey-cartoon-fans due to it's gameplay as well.

And like Mike said, yeah there's also the exposure aspect - I've never heard of Bombzo and I am a Kickstarter frequenter.

salties gonna salt though, man. When in doubt, blame the anime.
 
Apparently, this guy prefers to simply blame others instead of just stop and thing for a minute. He also contradicted himself by saying that this Bombzo got 2 thousand dollars but then he says "if I ever make a kickstarter project, it won't be an anime wannabe", does this mean Bombzo isn't actually his character? For some reason, he keeps defending "actual originality", so I can't stop imagining a "nice guy" kind of person behind Bombzo. Finally, I don't want to sound like a douche, especially because I can't draw to save my life, but his art style is really lacking, even for old 60's cartoons standards (and those were amazing; the amount of frames they had to draw by hand was impressive. I remember there was a video showing how many frames the artists had to draw just to animate a character climbing a building).
 
... what was that mess? Looked like some Disney reject and someone drawing worse than I do making a rather mixed complaint on a website that's not ment for complaints.
 
hm? I more talking about the art. I'm on DA for the art. What ever was in the Desc I pretty much ignored.
 
ArgonBern said:
Can we not lose our shit over something of so little importance people?

And yes I'm referring to the people here, not there.
I dunno, I think it's better to discuss here than go to that guys page and shitpost. I think all the analysis is interesting to hear and there are a lot of funny things to discuss about bombzo's deviant art career (Him making 2 dollars and 3.9 cents comes to mind) As a branch of discussion stemming from crowd funding.

tl;dr: It's all in good fun and I don't think it equates to anyone "Losing their shit".
 
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Yeah, besides, this will die sooner or later. It's just interesting that, depending on your point of view and probably choices in life (or simple luck), you can consider crowdfunding as the perfect opportunity for new talents to show what they can do, or "an idiotic way for people to waste their money on anime wannabe projects".
 
ArgonBern said:
Can we not lose our shit over something of so little importance people?

And yes I'm referring to the people here, not there.
Yeah, I don't really see that any shit has been lost. Sure, we all have good fiber and probably excessive coffee intake, but all in all everything seems pretty much regular. Mostly there just hasn't been a lot of Indiv stuff to talk about, so when someone makes a stink on some other web site, it gets mentioned even though it's just a lot of hot air.

We'll have more to talk about once the Beta Updates get started, and I'm really looking forward to them. Spear-jumping and fiddling with the bow and arrow seem really interesting.

Another topic that's been on my mind since I joined the cult of Funko pop toys: Merchandising! (I'm really surprised by how fun these little toys are. I never thought I'd like them before I owned some, but after getting a couple as a gift I want to build an army! I think the manufacturers sprinkle crack inside the packaging or something.) What sort of things do you want to see? Mousepads? Fridge magnets? Little tiny statues? And of course, who could say no to Indivisible: da Flamethrowa!!!

 
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@Kai just posted a cool interview with Eric today that you all should check out.

And it sounds like Eric might be doing a stream today too.
 
ArgonBern said:
Can we not lose our shit over something of so little importance people?

And yes I'm referring to the people here, not there.
Yeah, I think I'm beginning to regret sharing that link earlier. The description on the link now was changed to remove that mention of Indivisible, so I guess that guy doesn't want to get into a flamewar or something.
 
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Okay, so let's forget about Bombzo and his salty creator and move on. While we wait for some more Indivisble news, is there any other kickstarter/indiegogo game project that has caught your attention? In my case, I'm here, hoping Quest of Souls makes it, cause it has a corgi as a playable character.
 
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just curious but what was the reason to why you can't just spam arrows until monsters die?
like every time when Mr.Z testing it stops doing damage after awhile.
or is because he's just testing it so nothing actually dies
wait was this already addressed somewhere?
 
no he made it so you can only get their health down to half. after that it does 0 damage. cause think about it, if you could just spam arrows then what's the point of going into combat the second you get the bow?

edit: also don't call Mike anything but Mike... he doesn't exactly like it.
 
oh ok so it's not like the axe where after a certain point you can just axe them without bring out the party
guess arrows won't be any good for speed runs then
 
jam1220 said:
guess arrows won't be any good for speed runs then
Depends on their movement options.
 
jam1220 said:
oh ok so it's not like the axe where after a certain point you can just axe them without bring out the party
guess arrows won't be any good for speed runs then
Off the top of my head, anything with really high defense or anything that's really good at blocking would be faster killed by whittling it down with arrows first. The Agincourt treatment!

We also don't know how enemies will react to getting shot. Something might move out of the way or chase after you, making it easier to jump around it.

Also, could someone correct my understanding of bow-floating? Near as I can tell, vertical movement is slowed down, but is horizontal movement slowed down as well? 'Cause I keep thinking I can wall jump, switch to bow in mid-air, charge a shot, and use that charge to extend the horizontal range of the wall jump. However, Mike kept saying it couldn't be exploited, so I guess that's not right? Or at least not supposed to be right?
 
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jam1220 said:
oh ok so it's not like the axe where after a certain point you can just axe them without bring out the party
guess arrows won't be any good for speed runs then
Has sniping enemies to death ever been the preferred/optimal method of going about something in a speedrun? Also, don't forget that all weapons will have some function that will let you traverse the environment in some way. Whatever the bow does might prove to be incredibly useful for a speedrun.

EDIT: Also, this is kind of a pet peeve of mine I guess, but you're already making claims on what will/won't be useful for speed exploitation? A lot of speedrunning strats don't solidify until at least a few months after a game is completed and released to the general public. Indivisible isn't even in Beta yet, so.... can we all agree to not do this? At least not until alpha/beta builds start being released for us to try?
 
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