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...I've shown up to this party late

Receita Federal said:
if we are talking about safe things, its better not doing bypass at all unless vs peacock, as even with the super cancel, it still loses to alpha counter and you cant react to the flash since you just used a super
You would be surprised how many people do not block when they are jumping. That's what has been saving me. But I have this feeling that I will soon be playing people who do thing like block all the time in every match.
 
So here is my homework for the next SALTY and Get Gr8 next weekend. Pepe Silvia may be in here too...

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I only wrote out 2/3 of my Bella BnB. And I'm going to need the extra space for more notes. The c.LK > grab idea does work...it worked 3 whole times last night. But, it works. This whole "command whatever" thing is a pain, but I know that it is only a matter of practicing it until I hate myself I MEAN until I can do it while sleeping.
 
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***PSA***

Just to make sure, take your team into Beta and run through EVERYTHING (combos, chains, setups, etc...) to make sure you won't have to adjust anything. I just found out that I will need to modify my newest combo. Undizzy is suddenly being set off near the end. A simple situation, thankfully. Correct me if I'm wrong at any time, but if i can land and start the last ground chain of a Val combo before Undizzy is set off I'm golden. If this is the case, then I should just be able to remove a jumping medium normal and replace with a jumping light normal. It's after an L. Bypass, so i am already in an ideal position for a j.LK to work.

If this does not work, then I will just leave out the ground chain, do EKG >DHC into Dynamo, and take the ~800 damage nerf for now

I should be thankfully that this is the only thing I need to adjust that I know of. At least I did drop Fukua not too long ago, and love Cerebella.

***PSA OVER***
 
Which combo are you trying to do? Bella and Val both had some changes, sure, but nothing too drastic that should alter combos.
 
After going over the patch notes, I came to the same conclusion. So I was probably throwing some extra in, or maybe just doing a different bypass. The combo should be:

c.LK > c.MK(1) > HP > M.Bypass > assist LnL > c.HP > j.HK > M.Bypass > AD > j.MP > j.HK > land and rejump > j.LP > j.MP > j.HK > L.Bypass > AD > j.MK > LP > MP > MK > HK > H.Bypass > EKG

I think that's right
 
Solid combo, but be careful when trying to follow up bypass + LnL with c.hp against lights. Sometimes they'll fly over you (esp Squigs) because of the way c.hp moves. Val ducks down, moves forward, and then does the launcher. So at times lights will go over Val's head during the frames where she's ducking and moving forwards. For this reason I use s.mk (1 hit) c.hp against lights.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
Solid combo, but be careful when trying to follow up bypass + LnL with c.hp against lights. Sometimes they'll fly over you (esp Squigs) because of the way c.hp moves. Val ducks down, moves forward, and then does the launcher. So at times lights will go over Val's head during the frames where she's ducking and moving forwards. For this reason I use s.mk (1 hit) c.hp against lights.

I saw this problem a couple weeks ago when I first tried it. Seeing Squigly flying over the flurry of fists is a bit comical. My fix was LK > c.HP because the LK kept the opponent right on top of me, and it's fast startup means I'm not frantically mashing buttons after the bypass. But it's worth crunching the numbers to see how much damage I can gain out of the combo with MK.
 
Combos may be solid, but still stuck below the basement as far as skill goes. I find myself wondering what is going wrong and continue to be uncompetitive among most anyone. So I would like to invite anyone who would be around on Monday, 9/15, at 5pm PST. It will be open to anyone. Just look for the Skullheart's Pulse lobby.

Maybe I need more lobby time.

After sleeping on it, and talking to a few friends, I've discovered a problem: I do not understand reading opponents or situations where something like a mix up or reset is coming, then countering or do a reversal of any type. Everything up to this point has been luck. I thought since I was doing it, I understood it. Nope. Not one bit.

But I was told something helpful. When my undizzy bar is full or near full, there's a chance a reset is coming. That would be a great time to be ready to tech a grab. Did learn something...something good came out of not giving up
 
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The weekend away did not magically fix anything...darn. And XSpilt decided that I didn't want to see my recorded sets from tonight...darn again. XSpilt must pity me lol. But I did get a chance to play a wide variety of players: people I usually don't see that often, and other people here throughout the forums. I got reminded how scrub-tastic I still am

But I did tech an air grab once when I was trying to do so. Once...but that was better than all of last week. Besides that, I still:

-Get hit by highs most every time
-have great difficulty on offense when the opponent is blocking ( unable to deal with their defense and get in)
-tick throws, while I just discovered them, is something I am going to struggle with for a long time.
-unable to break free on defense. I never know how to make an educated guess on what kind of reset is coming.
-dont tech grabs, even though I am ready to do so

This list could be way off, but this is what I am seeing. Based off of just this though, it's time I lower my expectations, and figure out how to work on these things. Maybe I am still a beginner.
 
...at least I never give up.

Today marks 6 months with SG, and in the fighting game community. I am marking it be throwing out all my notes and starting over. I'm not saying what I have isnt working. But I have many gaping issues with my game. At times, I forget about great tips and advice because it's buried under so much material. Rewriting it all out may help.


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https://www.twitch.tv/the_beverly_hillbilly/v/84035568

I meant to record, but ended up streaming this. But on the plus side, I found those awesome notes tucked under a bunch of other notes and remembered how to not suck with Valentine. I either am decent with Val, or Bella...not both.

BUT I WASN'T SUCKING AS MUCH
 
You keep mashing during Miazaki's combos and you keep getting hit for it. He did next to no resets on you (though he did drop one chain a lot) apart from with Band near the start and those were both air grab resets. Don't mash without reason.

For the Duckator combo, have you tried doing j.LP, j.HK, Bypass? This should do more damage and it gives you a bit more time to compose yourself for the ADC, j.MP (which I noticed you dropped a bit, do it earlier).

You use Bella's j.MK a lot in neutral and I'm not sure why. j.LK is faster, has roughly the same (perhaps even better) range and you are more likely to be able to convert off of it by canceling to j.HK. Use j.LK instead of j.MK as an air to air basically (it is also good for cross ups). Use j.MP/j.HK for jumping in on a grounded opponent.

Run stop your blockstrings and try to hitconfirm the cr.LK, cr.MP, if they block it then either use sweep, RS or just RS (mix it up).

You barely ever call lock n load, call it when you want to approach, are doing a block string (it will stop them from pressing buttons) or to punish their assists. You didn't use it much early on but this got better over time.

You should be using f.HP to punish long range whiffs and poor assist calls, never use it when the opponent is really close to you.

You can punish Battle butt on block with a crouching light. Just mentioning this since you missed the punish quite a lot (you missed punishes on quite a few things actually, e.g. Big Band Tag).

Also, vs BB you can do instant overheads and they will catch him crouching (j.LP, j.HP, j.HK is what I use for Val, j.LP/LK, j.MP, j.HK for Bella).

You can swap the order of your team between matches without going to char select by holding their tag during the loading screen (or is that just offline?).
 
Lex said:
You keep mashing during Miazaki's combos and you keep getting hit for it. He did next to no resets on you (though he did drop one chain a lot) apart from with Band near the start and those were both air grab resets. Don't mash without reason.

Trying to mash a reversal instead of just blocking. Sounded like a great idea a month ago...it's not working. I need to just block instead. Getting reset is by far my weakest point of the game, so I think he did lay off of resets for this set.

For the Duckator combo, have you tried doing j.LP, j.HK, Bypass? This should do more damage and it gives you a bit more time to compose yourself for the ADC, j.MP (which I noticed you dropped a bit, do it earlier).

Huh, never even considered using that. And yes, there are times I drop that ADC > j.MP. That may help.

You use Bella's j.MK a lot in neutral and I'm not sure why. j.LK is faster, has roughly the same (perhaps even better) range and you are more likely to be able to convert off of it by canceling to j.HK. Use j.LK instead of j.MK as an air to air basically (it is also good for cross ups). Use j.MP/j.HK for jumping in on a grounded opponent.

Another case of 'this seems like a great idea'. I thought it was a good jumping poke.

Run stop your blockstrings and try to hitconfirm the cr.LK, cr.MP, if they block it then either use sweep, RS or just RS (mix it up).

These are notes I have on Bella, notes I just read yesterday morning, but I am currently really struggling with her. Nothing happens with her without me having to think about it first. I need to focus more time on her to just get more comfortable with her options.

You barely ever call lock n load, call it when you want to approach, are doing a block string (it will stop them from pressing buttons) or to punish their assists. You didn't use it much early on but this got better over time.

This is something I am actually improving on. I have been working on this a lot in casual sets, and in the last couple matches it did work.

You should be using f.HP to punish long range whiffs and poor assist calls, never use it when the opponent is really close to you.

Another case of me needing more time with Bella.

You can punish Battle butt on block with a crouching light. Just mentioning this since you missed the punish quite a lot (you missed punishes on quite a few things actually, e.g. Big Band Tag).

This was a lack of confidence throughout the set to go after punishes after being too slow early on.

Also, vs BB you can do instant overheads and they will catch him crouching (j.LP, j.HP, j.HK is what I use for Val, j.LP/LK, j.MP, j.HK for Bella).

Something else I would have never thought of. But it makes sense, because of his size.


I'm trying to figure out what lineup is better: Val/Bella or Bella/Val. I was expecting to be shutout, so the 4 wins felt really good. There were plenty of mistakes, but I saw slightly fewer mistakes. A couple mistakes are slowly disappearing too.
 
not saying that bella/val is weak, but val/bella is way better.
 
that's just offline.

also don't worry Lex i was teaching him inbetween the rounds. and trying to see what exactly he would do in situations where things are negative on block or whiffed
 
Receita Federal said:
not saying that bella/val is weak, but val/bella is way better.
Me switching back and forth was because I am not at a point where I feel confident with Bella, or feel like i can rely on her to turn a match around. But I'm aware that this is due to my relatively little experience with her, and that she plays differently than I would want to play.

Why did I switch to Cerebella then? I like her. I consider this to be a major factor in using or keeping a character. Because I picked Fukua out of feeling like I "needed" a team, I never connected with her. So I'm willing to put in the time to learn what Bella can do, and how to play a grappler/brawler type of character.
 
So after my third SALTY appearance, I like to think that I am a regular...or part of the group instead of the scrub learning fighting games (Well, i am. But that's the point and not the point. I'm there to improve and learn, and to become competitive with the game. At the same time, I show up to see friends and make new ones. OK, this was more complicated than I thought it would be. I need to stop rambling and carry on with this post).

I now see why players place such importance on playing offline. It is a completely different experience than playing online. Even with all of the effort I have put in to getting the most out of my already fast internet, lag will always be there...affecting how you play every match. Though I will still grind it out in sets in online lobbies, I should ease the emphasis I have placed on results I get from online play. Overall, I play a lot better offline. I love the thrill and roller coaster of emotions I get from it.

I ALMOST BEAT FIFI FRIDAY NIGHT! I PLAYED OUT OF MY MIND, MADE FEWER MISTAKES, AND TOOK THE FIRST MATCH! ME! I TOOK WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CAKEWALK FOR HIM, AND FORCED A FULL SET!

That was a huge win for me. I wasn't free. I was annoying. I was bothersome. I was competitive.
 
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I tried to find the answer to this question myself, because this should be a simple thing to figure out...but now I'm here making a post about it. OKAI...

So for Valentine, her MP normal gives you plenty of time to set up a snap. It also pulls the opponent (and assist if you catch them) in close, also making sure that the snap doesn't whiff. Is there a situation for Cerebella that sets her up better for snapping opponents? Or have I been spoiled by one of my favorite normals in the game? The only thing I have figured out is that maybe after LP (2 hits). That gives me a little bit of time to go for a snap, but it feels like I am rushing to make the snap.
 
Cerebella's c.mp pushes her close, and has plenty of hitstun to consistently cancel into a snap.
In addition to that, her s.mp causes stagger (esp. when done after her c.mk, j.mp j.hk sequence) and gives you plenty of time to walk forward and snap.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
Cerebella's c.mp pushes her close, and has plenty of hitstun to consistently cancel into a snap.
In addition to that, her s.mp causes stagger (esp. when done after her c.mk, j.mp j.hk sequence) and gives you plenty of time to walk forward and snap.

c.MP does push you in really close. I didn't even consider it. And I know of MP's stagger, but I would be reluctant to rely on catching an opponent out with a medium normal to go for a snap (unless I'm going for a reset that uses MP) ((which I may or may not be working on)) (((shhhhh))).

Why did I not think of c.MP? I'm watching myself do the snap without much problem, and it can be placed almost anywhere in a combo for a good corner carry first.

I'm going to pretend I didn't ask such a derpy question. But thanks again.
 
So before i post some cancer on here, here's a set from Tuesday with drewbnasty (its something else right now, but i cant think of what it is...or spell it...). There's the usual mix of good and bad, but this was a very strong showing from me.

 
You can convert off of air scalpels with M Bypass btw (or AD, j.MP but using M bypass is better IMO).

Vs Beowulf remember to land cancel punish his j.HP since he was basically getting these jump in j.HPs for free. You also need to be careful when you are tossing crosses at him as he can gigantic arm you on reaction (though, if you know they are trying to do this, you can trick them by doing the double jump and just pressing a button.

Make sure that, once you have your opponent in hard knockdown, that you don't just let them escape for free. I saw at one point when you tagged to Bella, putting Drew in knockdown, you just jumped and he was able to get out of there. Either go for a cross up, command throw or low to keep the pressure up (DDrop would put the opponent back in the corner).
 
Lex said:
you just jumped and he was able to get out of there. .

I do this a lot. If you always do a mixup on wakeup, you'll get reversal'd.
 
Lex said:
You can convert off of air scalpels with M Bypass btw (or AD, j.MP but using M bypass is better IMO).

I know, and half of the time I can ADC and convert. But some days I have a timing issue. It's been happening more recently, so I need to grind this out in the lab. I just saw a video of people using bypass to convert of of Air Scalpels, so that's another cool tool to learn.

Vs Beowulf remember to land cancel punish his j.HP since he was basically getting these jump in j.HPs for free.

What do you mean by this? I know that c.MP and s.HK CAN be an anti air against this, but I'm still grinding that out too.

Make sure that, once you have your opponent in hard knockdown, that you don't just let them escape for free. I saw at one point when you tagged to Bella, putting Drew in knockdown, you just jumped and he was able to get out of there. Either go for a cross up, command throw or low to keep the pressure up (DDrop would put the opponent back in the corner).

Yep. I will get an opponent in a corner and think 'do I throw out my assist now? Do I jump back and forward? Do I do the hokey pokey?'. Maybe....ADC > j.HP? OR assist LnL > c.LK?
 
1) Somewhere you've developed a habit of throwing scalpels in every situation. Please stop.
The thing about playing team Val/Bella is that you're going to have to get comfortable in pressure situations. Once you block, you don't have a button to get them off you aside from pushblocking. You don't have a safe DHC unless if you have 3 meters, and that's if the opponent is on the ground and isn't smart enough(or lucky enough to have meter) to alpha counter Bella's lvl3. On the plus side, successful reversal EKG > DHC Dynamo > H bypass assist + f.hp is a guaranteed combo anywhere.

2.) Counter calling. Instead of punishing Majin's LnL assist calls with scalpels, just call your own LnL assist. Every time you see an opponent call a dp assist or LnL, just call LnL. The beauty of counter calling with LnL is that between two LnL assists, the one that was called last will always win (given that the point characters don't do anything to punish the assists). The LnL assist that was called last will armor through the hit and only receive a percentage of the damage, but the other LnL assist will eat a counterhit's worth of damage. Mind you, H LnL does 1400 damage. On counterhit that's 2100 damage. Now if you add on the bonus damage earned on assists, that's a total of 2835 damage from one hit. And if it's a 2v3, then that's even MORE pain (2835 x 1.3 = 3685, but not able to test that right now). If they don't learn from all the counter calls and keep using their assist, then that assist will die.

3.) Cerebella has great air buttons (j.mp, j.hk, j.lk j.hp, throw) that all have different purposes and cover different angles, but a lot of her power and resources is on the ground. Jumping isn't a bad thing with Bella, but you need to develop a ground game. H bypass assist + f.hp lets Bella convert off of a half-screen punch. If they block both hits and try to punish the Val assist, they are still in range for another f.hp.

4.) You still haven't mastered a combo 100%. Or at least I haven't seen a full series that maxes out undizzy and ends in a super. What I think I'm seeing is that you have built up some degree of muscle memory for a combo, but you've been switching up your bnb several times to things you think are cool. I haven't seen evidence of you building up a foundation of a combo that you can do 100% without having to think about it much. There was once a time where a friend asked me to do Val's corner combo without looking at the screen. I did it, and then my friend was scared to even touch the game. But the point is, that's where you kinda want to be with your combos. Once you reach the point where you don't have to think about your combos, then you can spend the time during your combo thinking about what your reset options are and if your opponent blocked those options before. If the opponent did block it, how can you mix it up? Or if always keep mixing it up, will the other guy second guess themselves if you do the same mixup again?
 
Skodial said:
Vs Beowulf remember to land cancel punish his j.HP since he was basically getting these jump in j.HPs for free.
What do you mean by this? I know that c.MP and s.HK CAN be an anti air against this, but I'm still grinding that out too.
Land cancelling is when you block something in the air and then almost immediately land. Landing causes blockstun to end so this allows you to punish stuff which is normally safe (e.g. Beo and Para j.HP). It can also be used for resets and mixups (for instance you can do cr.HP, RS, HP (blocked), MGR as Bella and the MGR will catch them when they land from the HP).

For mixups in the corner it will somewhat depend on what character you are facing. This is where knowing your opponent's defensive options becomes important. For example, if I have Peacock in hard knockdown in the corner then I know I can pretty much do whatever I want because she only has one reversal (M Bang) and it is really slow, vulnerable to throws and punishable by jab at point blank on block (at least by both Bella and Val). But, if I have Bella knocked down and she has 3 meter then you are basically in a mixup yourself as she has so many good reversal options (lvl 3 is safe and deals huge damage and is a low, USS will catch you on the ground, etc) so you would really prefer to reset her in the air and just backing off and reseting to neutral would also be an option.

As Val for HKD mixups H LnL assist is very good due to its armour and wind up (this forces the opponent to be careful as if they challenge you they could get caught by Bella). You also have cr.LK/Throw/instant overheads (backdash, airdash, button) and you can add in cross ups midscreen (H LnL, jump over the opponent and block either on the ground or in the air would be a pretty safe way to make the opponent block midscreen as the assist is safe).

For Bella I wouldn't call H Bypass as it isn't really very good for this sort of thing (if you get a max range titan knuckle and can't get in on time you could call it just to make them block and hit them with another titan knuckle if they try to punish Val I guess). j.LK is good for crossovers, j.HP is a good fast instant overhead and Bella's low/throw game is really good due to her command throws. MGR from max range also will beat out some reversals.
 
Lots of suggestions and notes...

I think it would serve me well to put a video together going over all of this, then making a list of these notes to have by my side. It worked before, and there are things that i need to unlearn or remove from my muscle memory.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
There was once a time where a friend asked me to do Val's corner combo without looking at the screen. I did it, and then my friend was scared to even touch the game. But the point is, that's where you kinda want to be with your combos. Once you reach the point where you don't have to think about your combos, then you can spend the time during your combo thinking about what your reset options are and if your opponent blocked those options before. If the opponent did block it, how can you mix it up? Or if always keep mixing it up, will the other guy second guess themselves if you do the same mixup again?

So people aren't joking when they say they can do combos without looking? Here I thought they were. Yes, I still have to think about my Duck combo in order to ever pull it off correctly, even though I an generally pulling it off more often little by little. This may explain why reset attempts and mix-ups are messy at best, and thinking about the combo AND reset options at the same time is causing problems.

I think it was Gootecks that talked about this theory. The idea was: if you are spending a considerable amount of your thought process on your standard gameplay (combos, resets, other staples of you plan), you have much less spare brain power for anything else. The point being, I think, is that if you have to think about your combos, it will be really difficult to progress because your ability to adapt and learn is severely reduced. I see this coming back around to the idea of being able to execute your basic gameplan (with minimal mistakes) without thinking about it. That way, you can think about reset ideas mid-match and at least be able to pull them off better than what I am currently doing.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
There was once a time where a friend asked me to do Val's corner combo without looking at the screen. I did it, and then my friend was scared to even touch the game. But the point is, that's where you kinda want to be with your combos. Once you reach the point where you don't have to think about your combos, then you can spend the time during your combo thinking about what your reset options are and if your opponent blocked those options before. If the opponent did block it, how can you mix it up? Or if always keep mixing it up, will the other guy second guess themselves if you do the same mixup again?

So people aren't joking when they say they can do combos without looking? Here I thought they were. Yes, I still have to think about my Duck combo in order to ever pull it off correctly, even though I an generally pulling it off more often little by little. This may explain why reset attempts and mix-ups are messy at best, and thinking about the combo AND reset options at the same time is causing problems.

I think it was Gootecks that talked about this theory. The idea was: if you are spending a considerable amount of your thought process on your standard gameplay (combos, resets, other staples of you plan), you have much less spare brain power for anything else. The point being, I think, is that if you have to think about your combos, it will be really difficult to progress because your ability to adapt and learn is severely reduced. I see this coming back around to the idea of being able to execute your basic gameplan (with minimal mistakes) without thinking about it. That way, you can think about reset ideas mid-match and at least be able to pull them off better than what I am currently doing.
 
So a few days after a Get GR8 where I was....i really wanted to say gr8, but I'm not quite there yet. But I was able to stay away from bad habits and was mashing buttons A LOT less often. *I DIDNT AUTOMATICALLY HIT MP TO GO FOR HIT CONFIRMS* The last match showed me with too much hype hit, tho. But overall, I played well with Val and figured out what I needed to work on with Bella.

It's time to make another video. I'll have a casual lobby up (I'll be in retail, but if someone wants to hop in and switch to beta that's cool too), and let's run a set. If you play a lightweight character, that would be extra wonderful. I'm currently cleaning up my BnB timing with Val and Bella. And by cleaning up, I mean 'actually be able to pull of my combos with every character'.
 
I recorded my session yesterday randomly and have some thoughts:

1. Warming up is important. Starting sets ice cold is no bueno. But now I know how long it takes me to get going, which is 5-7 matches. Good info to have.

2. It's when you finally block all the time...that's when you realize you used to never block.

3. Combos still need refining. I still have to think about them to pull them off. There was free damage thrown away because of dropped combos. More grinding is required.

4. I still have a lot of general work to do on Cerebella. I would give exact details...but it's everything about her that I need to put in more time with. Having to think about your options for a given mid-match situation does not work. But I did learn that sometimes, her best reset option is to just re-stand an opponent and block for a second.

5. Watching your opponent become scared of your main character....feels gud.

Video will be going up tonight. Plz standby.
 
-after dynamo, you don't always have to go for the titan knuckle if you can't get H bypass assist to convert off of it. (btw that conversion is done by calling the assist first, and then going for titan knuckle.) Instead you can just go for H tumble run into stop while they are ground teching. That way when you reset to neutral you're still in a position to apply pressure.

-8:56 there was absolutely zero reason to tag. Congrats on the burst bait, but you didn't gain much out of it. Val's health was fine, and you would have gotten a lot more guaranteed damage if you just went for a combo. It worked out in the end, but there's no reason to pull out your anchor character when you had the advantage.
 
There were many times I called out Bella at weird or odd times. I've been giving her more play time because i just need the practice with her. Going solo Bella doesn't work, and a Bella/Val lineup has yet to produce anything good. That was probably the best of my bad tag-ins

Tuesday wasnt my best day of playing, but my matches against Tom ham (who usually pummels me. He's a tricky player who lets you make mistakes before taking you down) were something that....I'll hang my stick on
 
Skodial said:
There were many times I called out Bella at weird or odd times. I've been giving her more play time because i just need the practice with her. Going solo Bella doesn't work, and a Bella/Val lineup has yet to produce anything good. That was probably the best of my bad tag-ins
Playing your team in a mixed up order is a good idea. It will give you more time to learn Bella (and learn the stuff she can do with Bypass assist) and it will ensure that if you get snapped you will be able to continue playing fine instead of panicking and trying to tag/DHC in Val and dying.

Also, thought I'd just say that your Val was really good in Get Gr8. You can definitely see the improvement. Now you just need to remember that you shouldn't be throwing shuriken when your opponent is really close to you (unless you are way above them) and the same for bypass.
 
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