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...Josh's struggle to not suck...

Dag your words have given me a new sense of purpose T_T
 
I mean I'm not really amazing at neutral but I feel like most of neutral is just learning throughout a match. You should be deciding stuff like character-specific approaches beforehand (like "what is the best way to approach parasoul as filia" for example), but afterwards just react to what your opponent is doing and find a way to beat it. If your opponent is constantly trying to anti-air, run up low or whatever. Stuff like that. But you really want to have experience vs good players because your neutral will never improve when playing against someone who is worse at neutral than you.

After you get the hit is pretty much whatever resets/setplay you practice so that's whatever, but after you get hit it's not really neutral but you also have to be aware of what resets they like to go for and if a reversal would likely be safe, etc.
 
Yes, neutral is something you can only improve through experience. Just keep playing and you'll pick up things as you go.
 
Fundamentals is something you neglected from what i last spoke to you. Anyways. Neutral is the act of oppressing space without getting hit. This involves whiff punishing. knowing how much of your airdash or normal can invade space and how you should use your normals.
 
Think more. Understand what's happening at neutral at all times. Pay attention when you got hit and what you got hit by, see what worked and understand why it worked, analyse your own matches and those of better players, see how they get the hit and why they don't get hit. Learn from your mistakes and from what the better players do.

I highly recommend watching the video of Dolfinh's match analysis method, I'd link it but I'm on mobile, iirc you can find it on the resources thread.
 
I think neutral is something that's picked up mid-match because neutral should vary by the character and the player your facing but coming from someone totally free im not sure if that helps
 
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So I'm a bit ashamed of my self. I've been called a scumbag player by multiple players and I don't want that reputation I don't know what I do to make people think that but that's not how I want to be known

Any ways so notes and things I've noticed:
Most players are annoyingly predictable to the point where I can use the same setup 5 times and it works every time
People do not respect updo and this is what leads me to win a lot
People that do not burst the first time I bait almost always never burst if I do it again
People that play peacock are always going to move back meaning I don't have to chase them
There are two types of bigbands the ones that up back and use cymbals a lot and the ones that mixup high low throws up close. This means that I need to figure out how the my opponent plays quickly

I also tested some m shadow assist stuff with Filia and I found that I don't like m shadow very much compared to French twist.

So I'm hoping that the more I play offline the better I'll get but I shall see
Lastly I want to get some offline matches recorded so I can look at what I can do in a 0 lag environment and see where my problems are
 
joshb911 said:
All I lack is a strong neutral game plan any suggestions?
What works for me is going back and watching my matches, specifically looking for points where I lose neutral (either got hit or was forced to block). Then ask myself "what did I do wrong" or "what could I have done differently". Over the course of a long set sometimes you find yourself having the same answers to those questions at which point you figure welp that's the thing I need to work on.

As it happens you have a long offline set recorded. It's on my Twitch. Twitch archives disappear after about a week (you no longer have the option to save them forever unfortunately) but you can download them using this radical tool: https://twitchtools.com/video-download
 
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is this the error you get? I just got that but I literally downloaded the dekillschool archive to test the site a couple of hours ago so they must have JUST changed it today that sucks :(

EDIT: ok so that /v/ in the url must be what makes it not work because sage's archive is twitch.tv/dekillsage/b/XXXXXXXXX and it works fine. also for some reason sage's broadcasts are all 9 digit numbers and peanuts' aren't this is weird

EDIT 2: this has nothing to do with your training diary at all but i got curious about this and turns out the /v/ is a "newer" file type which can't be downloaded at all...except that twitch has been using /v/ in place of /b/ for MONTHS so why are sage's broadcasts still /b/? seems to be on a per-user basis
 
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yeah.

I figured out a back door way of doing it. I'm just gonna use OBS to record my matches directly from the archive then put it in here.
 
So after analyzing my sets with people I figured this out.
1.) I'm thinking way to much and I'm giving my opponent way to much credit in their ability to adjust
2.) I'm over analyzing setups and once agin givin my opponent way to much credit
3.) I need to start making updo safe so I don't lose Filia
4.) I need to poke less with l shadow
5.) I need to use m shadow much more
6.) and most importantly my opponent does not know my combos therefor basic resets are better then my more complicated ones that are designed to counter an adjustment
 
I wouldn't say it as giving your opponent too much credit. It's more like, everyone has tendencies on defense, whether it's upbacking or downbacking or reversals or mashing jab or letting go of the stick or whatever. You need to recognize your opponent's tendencies and adjust your setups and resets to match. Sometimes this means going air throw 15 times in a row (this would probably work on me fwiw)
 
I guess I have the mindset that my opponent is smarter then I am and will adapt the first time I do something. So I guess the next thing I have to try is to figure out these tendencies first before I dissect the other aspects of my opponent like what they do when I do a move at a given distance
 
To make updo safe you input the shoryu motion and use your assist macro.

Most likely m updo will come out and then your other assist.(c.mk i assume). Will come out as well. Dont abuse or fear getting double snapped as you should expect.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
To make updo safe you input the shoryu motion and use your assist macro.

Most likely m updo will come out and then your other assist.(c.mk i assume). Will come out as well. Dont abuse or fear getting double snapped as you should expect.
I meant the assist but this is also useful thanks!
 
joshb911 said:
I guess I have the mindset that my opponent is smarter then I am and will adapt the first time I do something. So I guess the next thing I have to try is to figure out these tendencies first before I dissect the other aspects of my opponent like what they do when I do a move at a given distance
Icky had the same problem, if he did an air grab reset the first time, the next time he would always try to bait throw tech and get a CH combo. Sometimes you just gotta keep air grabbing until they get it.

Another example. You know the post throw mixup I do with Peacock, where I jump over then j.HP drop item and it's a fake crossup? There was one time I played someone like 30 games and every time I threw I did that mixup, and it always hit. He was like "do you ever actually cross up?!" and I was like "I'll do a different setup when you prove to me you can block that one."
 
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This is exactly what Pickles mentioned in my Training Diary <3 the other day, about how I kept going for throws on his wakeup even though it didn't hit once. I figured "well eventually he'll assume I'm going to go low instead, thus my throw will work", but of course that never happened.
 
A good thing to assume is like what peanuts said, everyone has their own habits they will commonly default to on defense. No one will change their behavior if you don't give them a reason to. Part of this of course is noticing what your opponent commonly does and going for resets that will beat that, but as rule of thumb don't stop doing a thing as long as it keeps working. You say "I assume my opponent is gonna be smart and adapt" but changing your behavior based on a single reset is not adapting, it's still guessing. People will (hopefully anyway) adapt to a PATTERN.

Your point #6 is good, basic resets are just as good as complicated ones as long as your opponent doesn't have a guaranteed way to beat it. Save the complicated stuff to use sparingly so it'll catch them off guard when it happens.

With regards to making updo safe, I think you really just have to accept that a DP is a commitment, if they read a DP then they will (probably) be able to react to your assist call and you'll just lose 2 characters instead of one. Wing tries a lot to do the gregor after LP Updo thing to make it safe but I've seen it actually make the move safe probably 20% of the time tops. Using a reversal DP means you're making a read and either it works or it doesn't, it's a risk you're taking for possibly high reward.

E: also ending blockstrings in shadow is something you do more than you should.
 
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Yeah I was actually wrestling with the idea of developing a new block string that ends in a 50/50 and is backed up by updo so even if I miss my possible 50/50 I can still make it safe. I'll have to experiment tonight and see what I can do. And about the complicated resets yeah I should be saving my good ones for those that can beat the day 1 stuff. I'm also glad that I figured out that I had this issue now before it gets worse
 
Trying to make dps safe is dumb. Just means that you have no confidence in your reads and you're not as GDLK as you say you are.

Or you could just play the characters that don't have dps and mash super.
 
I never said I was good. I'm actually really bad at this game but I'm trying to improve. My team is based on the synergy between Fukua/Filia. I'm not saying that I need updo but it makes Fukua's life a little easier and I like playing Filia so making it safe would also mean that I can maintain pressure which is my first priority. And I would prefer to not mash super unless I absolutely need to
 
So after following Peanut's and Pickles advice I'm starting to see why he said that people do the same thing all the time and why over thinking is not effective. I can also say I'm not afraid of Peacock any more which took me about a year to understand. I'm also not as afraid of Bella I'm starting to understand that grab resets are pretty much the only things she can do in the air so the trick is to understand when she jumps expect a grab. Next after reading up and analyzing some more game play by other players I think I need to start using multiple combos to beat my opponent not because I want to learn more combos but because (and this is a large assumption) people don't react to resets they react to the moves that equate a reset or a bait so if I can hide my reset with another move my opponent now has to remember a very specific normal to beat me.

Lastly I'm so glad I can play offline more
 
I feel kind of weird posting this because you ended up winning the BO5, so I feel like I shouldn't be advising you, but when I was watching my recording of our skullbats match I noticed that when you have fukua out your neutral is a lot scarier because you have a neutral assist. When you have filia out you will call c.mk at neutral as if it were a neutral assist, and it got you in a lot of trouble a lot of the time. That set wouldn't have been nearly as close as it was if it weren't for you basically giving me free hits on fukua assist whenever you called it. (That's one of the reasons I think low assist is really only good in trio because in a duo you basically are making one of your characters play the neutral solo, and of your two characters filia has by far the worse solo neutral.) You should really only be calling the c.mk assist when you're actively going for the mixup because it does nearly nothing for you in neutral and just gets punished.
 
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That idea is still there I'm still trying to figure out how to utilize that strat fully but against pickles it did not work due to how patient he plays and I should of realized that. Against double it's not as strong cause you have gun and j.hp

Also let me make one thing clear @Pickles I don't give a damn if I win 100 games in a row against you I will take any advice and I will try to implement that advice into my gameplay and there is nothing more to that.
 
So after playing warped and peanuts offline again I realize I don't know how to fight Big Band nor do I understand Painwheel. I need to learn both these characters so I can fight them and understand them to stand a chance against PW in tournaments
 
So just an update. I now have multiple combos for my entire team and I have several sub teams and counter teams for certain matchups. I have optimized damage and resets for all my combos. I have character specific tech. I understand tendencies and counters.

I have a few things I still need to do:
I still don't understand Eliza and Painwheel. Like I understand their moves and what counters what but I don't understand the basic gameplan of a PW or Eliza player.
I need to be more subtle with Filia
I need to remember all the character specific combos for double
 
So during my trip to HBA I had a conversation with pickles and learned a few things about my characters. I have not been using Fukua the right way this entire time and I now understand what I was doing wrong. I have been targeting the same points at every reset and I have not been using vortex based resets. I have changed that so I think I can now run proper setplay with my main team. I also worked on my Filia neutral and after playing some yata have learned the power of poking and letting my opponent come to me rather then dashing about like an idiot. I'm gonna try to run some sets with players I have a decent connection with and test if my setplay did in fact level up
 
So here is a set I did with Pickles today
 
So I've noticed I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with big band. I've looked into all his frame data and I've dissected what he can do in most situations. How do you rush him down? Like real talk he is the one character that I'm nervous going in on. Everything he can do can counter rushdown and even if I play midscreen I get blown up by GS and brass. Does anyone have advice on what to look for in BB players that I can simulate more?
 
so here are my thoughts

you can jump giant step on reaction of course so BB should not be really treated as a threat until you're in H A-train range

the trick is that BB can stuff any approach from a long distance, but only if he guesses right
jumping is relatively dangerous because of A-train, but if you can train BB to not use A-train because you aren't jumping then his longest range poke, L brass, is still unsafe if he whiffs
cymbals are the most often tool used by BB but if you airblock and land cancel you can cover ground while he recovers in the air
j.lk is also really good at controlling space but I haven't tested land canceling it
actually now that I think about it probably the trick to dealing with bb's air control is don't pushblock

once you get into point blank range then of course you have be careful of DP but you can bait it like anyone else with a DP, just keeping in mind that BB is more likely to DP than other characters because the threat of instant overhead is VERY real
remember that L/M extend are NOT throw invincible and M/H lose to high enough jumpins because they are only invuln until active frames start, and the active frames start out pretty low to the ground
 
I watched about half an hour of your recent video with Pickles and here's what I noticed and I think Pickles noticed this too.

You like jumping on wake up especially jumping forward.

I don't play Filia, but you do a lot of jumping forward/iad whiffing moves. It seems to somwhat work against the Filia matchup, but against Big Band that's is probably why you feel like you can't rush big band down. It also ends up being punished by Brass Knuckles assist. Sooo...try running/dashing forward sometimes while being ready to block in neutral?
 
@mcpeanuts what is your bnb combo that you use, what is your secondary combo, and what is the reset combo that you use? I am planning on learning that so I can learn what to expect from you during combos. I'm not as afraid of your neutral and now I must beat your set play and my only way to do that is to know your options.
 
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