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Keeping People Honest

RemiKz

RemiKz

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Peacock Filia Cerebella
One thing I'm SICK of about this game is how mash friendly it is. We all know about burst baits and they are great! Usually leads to a dead character if you catch your opponent mashing.

What about when you don't have an opponent in a combo? You can just block their super right? That would be great, if a great deal of players didn't have Double to safely DHC into and apply pressure.

Spent the past couple of days going over all ways to get around this and punish people. I'll be going over some examples I came across with my team, I hope everyone can contribute their own ways of dealing with things as well.

My team:
Peacock (s.HP)/ Filia (HP Updo)/ Cerebella (Cerecopter)

Situation: Parasoul Napalm Pillar xx Bike Super midscreen

As Peacock, grab isn't fast enough to intercept Parasoul before the bikes reach you. MP Bang will hit Parasoul between the Pillar and Bikes, but will cause you to trade with the bikes. Not necessarily a bad situation since it hits both of you across the screen, typically where you want to be against Parasoul, as well as you opponent having spent a meter. A better option (thanks TJ), is to teleport behind Parasoul between the pillar and bikes for a full punish. The thing to be aware of in this situation is that it is pretty much asking to get hit if the opponent has a second character and another bar to dhc into.

As Filia, all versions of Updo will after napalm pillar, but the bikes will interrupt you from trying to cancel into Gregor. Best you can do for 1 meter is LP Updo xx Fenrir for a punish. If I'm willing to spend more meter for a bigger punish, I can alpha counter on reaction to the super flash into Peacock or Cerebella to punish.

Cerebella has the easiest time punishing this. Depending on the distance I block Napalm Pillar, I can punish it with Merry-Go-Rilla or Diamond Drop. If I want to spend meter, Diamond Dynamo, Ultimate Showstopper and Diamonds Are Forever all punish it without the bikes interrupting.


Situation: Parasoul Napalm Pillar xx Bike Super with back to corner

Because of this positioning, Napalm Pillar canceled into bike super is a true block string, meaning you can't act between the two actions, as well as it being safe on block. Luckily, there is a rather simple way to punish this. Every character can pushblock the napalm pillar on reaction to the super flash and hit Parasoul with a jab for a full punish after the last bike.


Situation: Super DHC into catheads on block
Sorry for the poverty recording. These were just examples of ways to punish I did off the top of my head, I'm sure I can squeeze in a bit more damage, especially with Peacock.


Situation: Cerebella Lvl 3 on block

Similar to the example above, alpha counter into any character when you block the lvl 3 and punish. Oops there goes Cerebella's 3 meters.
 
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Every character can punish midscreen Pillar xx Bikes with Jump/Superjump forward into random normal if they were on the ground. No need for fancy business.
 
A worthy cause. I'll see what I can come up with.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
how bout PBGC? i've done it at times with catheads and got some stuff in somehow.
The thing about PBGC is that they can dhc immediately or on reaction to the pushblock which makes it still pretty safe
 
wait wait wait. so you mean to tell me that double players the just spam the grab shit to make cat heads go zoom and shit and i pbgc to fiber or my updo....and you're telling me they react to it? PISH POSH. i'm not talking about pbgc the first super cause no if its double they go dhc...but catheads while super difficult can be pbgc and will be countered if they're near you.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Every character can punish midscreen Pillar xx Bikes with Jump/Superjump forward into random normal if they were on the ground. No need for fancy business.

That's very much dependent on how close Parasoul is to the corner.
 
Snap in the character with the safe dhc. For most other situations, no super is safe (Pillar xx Bikes has a gap, Bella lvl 3 is an easy alpha counter punish, Bomber xx Cat Heads isn't safe, etc).

Are we really going through this again?
 
You have about three or five (?) seconds after a snap where the opponent can't call an assist, raw tag or alpha counter. Plus, air resets vs Double mean you don't have to worry about super/invincible assist/reversal mashing at all.

Also, would you rather deal with invincible super into Cat Heads or invincible super into Hatred Install? This has to be like the fifth or sixth time a thread has been created about invincible super mashing into safe dhc. The answers should have been made clear long ago.
 
If you think the other guy's mashing super with the intent to DHC it to something safe, you can reset with Lock n Load then super cancel to 360. @dekillsage does this all the time.
 
You can also aim to make the initial super whiff, then punish the dhc.
 
I should probably learn what the input for Alpha Counter is so that I can theoretically use it in a match and then forget to use it anyway.
 
Jason said:
I should probably learn what the input for Alpha Counter is so that I can theoretically use it in a match and then forget to use it anyway.
Forward+tag

Alpha counter is pretty gr8 actually, more people should use it maybe
 
What I hate about Alpha Counter is the fact that the opponent can super it on reaction. It would be nice if they didn't have a super flash, but they're still great for punishes.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
but it gets baited :P

i still use and do give no effs.... especially if my back burner is fortune since i can upper to freedom
The most success I've had with alpha counters is alpha countering into an armored assist then immediately super cancelling into a 2 frame invincible super. I guess not every team can do that, but it works pretty consistently as long as you use it after blocking something that's unsafe on block*

*The neat thing is that it doesn't seem to matter if it's a move that can be made safe on block by chaining or cancelling into another move, it punishes either way. Like I'm pretty sure if a Filia or Fukua ever does c.MK and you block it, that's just a free alpha counter into super.
 
View619 said:
What I hate about Alpha Counter is the fact that the opponent can super it on reaction. It would be nice if they didn't have a super flash, but they're still great for punishes.

Seems to work best with armored moves. That way if they counter-super you can absorb the hit and do your own super. BB and Bella have some really good alpha counters.
 
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Jason said:
Seems to work best with armored moves. That way if they counter-super you can absorb the hit and do your own super. BB and Bella have some really good alpha counters.

I need to try charging sometimes when I alpha counter with PW c.mp, then. There are some great single meter options that get destroyed due to the super flash alerting the opponent though.
 
Meterless neutral options against safe DHC attempts? I know armor can work well with a good read and some luck, and a well timed PBGC with certain characters may work against some DHC attempts.
 
Zid posting just reminded me, if you wanna know if someone's trying to mash reversal while you're comboing them, just take a peek at their hands and see what they're doing, or listen for the button presses.

Playing online? LMFAO @ u
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Zid posting just reminded me, if you wanna know if someone's trying to mash reversal while you're comboing them, just take a peek at their hands and see what they're doing, or listen for the button presses.

Playing online? LMFAO @ u

I bet you were a scumbag screen watcher when you played Golden Eye on N64.

I need some silent buttons....
 
Nah, then you can just use TEH MIND GAMES and mash to bait out their burst bait.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Zid posting just reminded me, if you wanna know if someone's trying to mash reversal while you're comboing them, just take a peek at their hands and see what they're doing
I'll be the first to admit that i do this a lot. although not as of recently for some reason. i'll have to start doing that again
 
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Situation: Super DHC into catheads on block

The alpha counter stuff is really really good, but there's a few other things to consider on this one:
  • PB the point super before the DHC, do your hitstop/invuln GC move during the cat-head recovery. The biggest benefit of this is that if they don't DHC quickly enough, Double actually may come in with cat-heads at frame disadvantage if your pushblock pushed the point away, at which point you may have a free Gregor, Dynamo, whatever. If they DHC slowly/patiently, they're set up for the PBGC. If they DHC really slowly, you may have time to PBGC the point.
  • Wait and PBGC the cat-heads. Keep in mind at all times that double is generally mashing buttons, throw or fleshstep more often than not, and if you have something that doesn't care about the heads like a fast-traveling horizontal ground super, she's going to get counter-hit. Just be very mindful of what buttons they're using to make the heads attack.
  • PBGC jump, air super or just try to dash/fly/bypass/airball/whatever. This is the riskiest, but worth considering too. On most cat-head activations, Doubles don't really want to use M/H head attacks if they don't have to because people fall out of the heads prematurely, or it messes with the normal conversion once heads' timer has run out. This means that if you can safely get off the ground, they probably won't have heads going into the air on the first rep of head attacks and it's a good time to counter attack.

View619 said:
This has to be like the fifth or sixth time a thread has been created about invincible super mashing into safe dhc. The answers should have been made clear long ago.

In case they weren't, please suffer another one with patience. It's good for people to know.

mcpeanuts said:
Zid posting just reminded me, if you wanna know if someone's trying to mash reversal while you're comboing them, just take a peek at their hands and see what they're doing, or listen for the button presses.

Playing online? LMFAO @ u

Negus Eyoel said:
I'll be the first to admit that i do this a lot. although not as of recently for some reason. i'll have to start doing that again

The very first thing I noticed about Sev offline was that he waits for the recovery spark and then CLACK reversal updo/super.

Wasn't even trying to pay attention to his hands, he just slaps those buttons with impunity at the last possible moment. It's really loud and then you're like "oh, fuck. RIP me."
 
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Jason said:
I bet you were a scumbag screen watcher when you played Golden Eye on N64.

I need some silent buttons....
Screen watching is not illegal! Stop snitching!
MysteriousJ said:
Nah, then you can just use TEH MIND GAMES and mash to bait out their burst bait.
I have done this. It's why I have two buttons on my stick that aren't mapped to anything.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Screen watching is not illegal! Stop snitching!

I have done this. It's why I have two buttons on my stick that aren't mapped to anything.
You should try getting an extra stick that's not mapped to anything so you can also fake doing motions for supers
 
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mcpeanuts said:
I have done this. It's why I have two buttons on my stick that aren't mapped to anything.

That's so cool.

I could do that if I wasn't one of the like, 4 people that play on pad, haha.
Also protip:

Talk about the current match when you're playing, it calms you down.
 
Hilary said:
In case they weren't, please suffer another one with patience. It's good for people to know.
"

Or somebody could make a guide/sticky the topic so we don't get another new thread? In fact, I'm pretty sure a guide already exists for defensive options...
 
mcpeanuts said:
Screen watching is not illegal! Stop snitching!

>be amazing at Halo:CE
>be really good at reading/predicting movements around the level
>kill everyone at casual LANs with 3x pistol shots, forcing movment with grenade bounces, double-taps by teleporters, or no-scopes
>FUCKING SCREEN WATCHER
>invite them to more serious LAN with tournament team
>slightly muffled cries of "HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU WATCHING SCREENS FROM IN THERE YOU FUCKIN' CHEATER"
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Zid posting just reminded me, if you wanna know if someone's trying to mash reversal while you're comboing them, just take a peek at their hands and see what they're doing, or listen for the button presses.
Ya'll finally starting to figure out why I play pad? No one can see shit. And when you can hear me mashing? It's only cause I allow you to hear me mash. Then, when I need to, the silent mash comes. Your bulky noise boxes are inferior. DWI.
 
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Button watchers? Meh. You're pro if you play soul calibur2 and watch your opponents shoulder movements to know when a triple 360 sonic boom dp input summon suffering throw is coming.


You are... More pro if you have a nothing button that you mash to throw off the button listeners, or if you mash preemptively to make your opponent think you are mashing, only to stop at the last second as they bait nothing... High level stuff right there, circa '91 cali og streetfighter 2
 
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Dime_x said:
Button watchers? Meh. You're pro if you play soul calibur2 and watch your opponents shoulder movements to know when a triple 360 sonic boom dp input summon suffering throw is coming.


You are... More pro if you have a nothing button that you mash to throw off the button listeners, or if you mash preemptively to make your opponent think you are mashing, only to stop at the last second as they bait nothing... High level stuff right there, circa '91 cali og streetfighter 2
4428352936416bb3fd.jpg
 
Westsiiiiiiiiiiiide
 
Hilary said:
>be amazing at Halo:CE
>be really good at reading/predicting movements around the level
>kill everyone at casual LANs with 3x pistol shots, forcing movment with grenade bounces, double-taps by teleporters, or no-scopes
>FUCKING SCREEN WATCHER
>invite them to more serious LAN with tournament team
>slightly muffled cries of "HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU WATCHING SCREENS FROM IN THERE YOU FUCKIN' CHEATER"

Man halo 1 was the shit. Dat pistol.
 
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