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Painwheel tricks and resets

theDMAGS said:
when you guys say "buer starters" , do you simply mean ending your first loop in lk buer ( c.lk, c.mk, s.hp xx lk.buer for example ) or rather, beginning a combo with buer?

If you're talking about the former, then the "more range" is huge for me. I can't tell you how many time's I've landed a hit midscreen only to have the lk.buer whiff because I'm just a tad too far out.

I didn't realize how similar the damage output is when using ( or not using ) buer in your opening loop for midscreen combos, this is great to know.

Carry on :-)

Yep, a buer that comes in the first chain is a buer starter to me. And yeah its frustrating having the damn things wiff all the time. Since you seem to have that problem as well i would suggest the fly 3j.lk starter. There is no damage difference worth mentioning between the 2. And no need to confirm block into fly, or hit into buer or happy birthday into fly, or long range into 3j.lk, or super long range into 6j.lk.


So yeah... No need for you to stick with that early buer starter at all :)
 
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Try this if you are near a computer:

c.lk > c.mk > s.hp x fly > 3j.lk > c.mk > stuff

Then try

c.lk > c.mk >s.hp > lk.buer > 6j.lk > c.mk > stuff

There should be a difference in undizzy. Like I said though, I'll check when I get home.
 
Spencer said:
Try this if you are near a computer:

c.lk > c.mk > s.hp x fly > 3j.lk > c.mk > stuff

Then try

c.lk > c.mk >s.hp > lk.buer > 6j.lk > c.mk > stuff

There should be a difference in undizzy. Like I said though, I'll check when I get home.
no dude...
 
Spencer said:
Try this if you are near a computer:

c.lk > c.mk > s.hp x fly > 3j.lk > c.mk > stuff

Then try

c.lk > c.mk >s.hp > lk.buer > 6j.lk > c.mk > stuff

There should be a difference in undizzy. Like I said though, I'll check when I get home.

I play on playstation bro.

There was no difference, just like I thought. I also lost 103 points of damage on krak's combo when i left out buer
 
PC/Console? Same difference?

Anyway, I'll record both when I get home and tell you exactly what the issue is.
 
Alright, so it is my bad. Apparently I have a habit after doing the buer of doing 6j.lk > c.lk instead of skipping right to the c.mk like I normally do.

So... my bad. And interesting that I have that as a habit.

lk.buer adds 20 damage to my combo.
 
Found a couple things. Can't guarantee that others haven't found these already but here we go.

First, s.mp into air throw is sexy as hell. Jump around the time they leave hit stun and grab immediately. Works on everyone everywhere but is hardest on heavies (naturally).
Opponent: "Oh hey, he dropped the combo"
Painwheel: "GET DOWN"

With a cerecopter assist, you can set up a low to throw mix up mid screen with s.hp, assist, lk buer, flight cancel, j.lp or 6/9 j.lk or j.mk. The opponent will leave hit stun intime for the mix up. If you do 9j.lk you can cross up j.hk.

In the corner, you can do the above cerecopter set up but with lp or charged mp nails instead of buer for a low/throw/overhead set up.

Honorable mention: This one feels extremely obvious but looked really cool when I did it. I basically did j.mp, j.hp on double and flight canceled into 3j.mk. I don't have much playing experience on this game because of my lack of wifi so I'm not sure how well an overhead works on a previously airborne opponent.
 
So for the s.mp <pause> 9.airthrow, you can train them to tech and then do s.mp <pause> 8j.mp and it should but you out of their throw range ie it punishes if they are mashing throw... also, don't try this vs say gregor.

For the last one, you can make it pretty universal by varying the number of hits of j.mp (x3 instead of x4) if you're doing what I think you're doing.
 
Seems like you shouldn't try anything vs Gregor. Which reminds me; do we have any anti Gregor or-other-annoying-reversals set ups?
 
I think ive said this before...

St.mp resets:


Xx fly, up forward throw.
Xx fly, 3 j.lk fastfall wiffs (land) cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp. (If the opponent mashed tech against the first option but you did the second option you will wiff punish their throw tech. This is my primary reset mixup against bella, parasoul and double, but it also works great against peacock and works against anyone.


@LaowPing
St.mp reset versus gregor mash:


St.mp, j.mp (4 hits) fly cancel, 3j.lp or 3j.lk (the lights attacks have to cause ips to kick in) this is a burst bait. What makes it good is that there is a throw mixup via j.mp (4) xx fly down forward airthrow.


There are more burst baits for gregor and stuff.. i already laid them out in this thread.
 
Yeah, PW has some good anti-mash reversals (outside of Burstbaits).

drop your combo into (hg)s.hp > DC when you see their superflash (this beats out virtually every mashed ground super except for grab supers).

drop your combo into x fly > (hg)j.hp > Thresher when you see their super flash (This beats out virtually every mashed super, plus you get a combo).

The HG absorbs the hit, the super's invincible start-up takes over from there.
 
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I was wondering if that worked. Thanks for the confirmation Spencer.
 
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It isnt just that hg absorbs hit... Painwheel doesnt go into superfreeze hitstop if she is charging armor. So she basically becomes like a vanilla character against supers... She can counter super all day long... As long as she was charging a hatred guard.


Against diamond dynamo though, ive found that air hg into thresher loses because of DD invincibility, however, if pw allows DD to hit her once and absorbs it, then she can thresher afterwards cause DD invincibility will have ended by that time.


BUT, with newly nerfed DD invincibility time... We may not need to do that... We may be able to just counter with thresher immediately. Which would be cool because that specific punish was annoyingly difficult in the heat of a match.
 
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Dime_x said:
It isnt just that hg absorbs hit... Painwheel doesnt go into superfreeze hitstop if she is charging armor. So she basically becomes like a vanilla character against supers... She can counter super all day long... As long as she was charging a hatred guard.


Against diamond dynamo though, ive found that air hg into thresher loses because of DD invincibility, however, if pw allows DD to hit her once and absorbs it, then she can thresher afterwards cause DD invincibility will have ended by that time.


BUT, with newly nerfed DD invincibility time... We may not need to do that... We may be able to just counter with thresher immediately. Which would be cool because that specific punish was annoyingly difficult in the heat of a match.

To the first sentence... wow... did not know that. Makes sense though.

Second, just tried both DC version and Thresher version vs new Dynamo. You auto absorb one hit (I couldn't mash it fast enough to not absorb one) and both work.

Vs Dynamo you can also just let your s.hp stagger Bella. You are taking a risk that she mashed out throw instead though.
 
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Also note that, though it should go without saying, this applies to all armor moves across the cast. (Armor moves dont go into superfreeze hitstop and can be canceled into whatever they can be canceled into regardless) that is, unless there are specific moves that that doesnt work for as intended exclusions (programmed by mike, basically)
 
I now want to know what it can do with assist cover. Please show me what it can do with assist cover.
 
Found a new reset. When the opponent's in the corner you can go from a j.mp or j.mk into a charged j.hp for an overhead reset. It works best after j.mk because you can land afterwards and low/throw instead. Amazing how all the resets i make up come from me dropping a combo.
 
If you map one of your macros to LP+MP+LK you can fly-unfly with the same button.
i.e. You jump in and get your normal blocked, you do QCB+[double tap macro] and you get fly unfly the quickest possible.
Also like this you don't call assists by accident (like I was getting every time I tried the normal way).
It also works as:
Dash button on the ground;
Throw button if you are in the air and not flying;
Push-block button
and Death Crawl/LVL 3 button.
 
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Good to know. In the mean time, j.mp has become my new religion. I noticed you can go into j.mk to land early and throw or low or flight cancel to overhead or cross up. Now to learn proper spacing and how to reset with this.
 
LaowPing said:
Good to know. In the mean time, j.mp has become my new religion. I noticed you can go into j.mk to land early and throw or low or flight cancel to overhead or cross up. Now to learn proper spacing and how to reset with this.
Yeah the j.mp into fastfall j.mk wiff is very good. Its just like doubles. Its been one of my primary openers against peacock for a loooooong time now.
 
More like double's is like painwheel. Stealing my girls move. t(-_-t)
 
LaowPing said:
Good to know. In the mean time, j.mp has become my new religion. I noticed you can go into j.mk to land early and throw or low or flight cancel to overhead or cross up. Now to learn proper spacing and how to reset with this.
In a combo,you can do s.mp,j.mp,j.mk for a cross under that is better used on smaller and lighter characters(Most effective on Peacock,Fillia,and Fukua).
 
That's one of the first resets i ever found. Not sure if i shared here or not.
 
Was messing around and found out this is a thing. Sure, I'd known about it while spamming stingers, but I'd never really thought about how doing this allowed me to actually "hop" faster than a normal flight did, or its potential use in combos or resets. This could be old news as far as I know, although I personally haven't seen it talked about before... probably because it's a really niche thing, but it could have some interesting uses. I dunno!
If it's unclear to anyone, I'm using stinger > flight to be able to link c.MK into j.LK. It can be used for other purposes, such as hitting the ground faster for a fake-out j.LK to hit them low, or preserving OTG on c.HP into j.MK.

Also here's a stupid cross under reset.

Edit:

Here's a ground tech bait using the aforementioned OTG-less c.MP into j.MK.
 
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@Rabspat

It isnt often that a pw player comes up with something about her that i didnt know or have some inkling of... But this is definitely one of those things. Good stuff :)
 
Pretty sure mike stealth patched flight from nails to be lower to get rid of a crazy crossup mixup from st hk that used to be in the game, but this is an interesting find that I'm sure will also be patched out somehow. Cool

edit: There is a real chance I'm wrong because I'm not Mike Z and I have been known to be wrong about his design decisions before, but the reason I'm thinking this may be patched out is because cr hp into otgless j mk was removed a long time ago because she was given flight cancel-able buers and stuff for combos

edit 2 otg boogaloo: also, as much as I love burst baits, I think this one is a little gimmicky on the basis that there is no real mixup from a hk buer since they are in otg state, thus giving them no real reasons to press buttons in "high" level play since you have to hit them twice to get them in a standing state to go for high/low/throw, and you're just hitting them once with said burst bait

edit 3 I can't read edition: I guess it's a mixup if you think they're going to tech, but you should drop your combo there and see if they tech first to train them into thinking that they can tech there to get them to press buttons before going for this burst bait. On a side note, when you are training them, you can still use your assist to autocorrect with their tech direction to keep pressure on and get keep momentum up, however this may lead them to not wanting to tech to be able to easily block the assist so idk I'm an idiot UGH HA UGH HA I'm blowing myself up
 
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Stinger flight has always been very low. As is buer flight. Regular flight cancel is the highest flight cancel.

all of this is known for a long time, info.
 
Eh, I've been wrong before, I guess the crossup thing (canceling 2nd hit of st hk into nailxx fly 2 jlp) was fixed maybe another way? idk, all I remember is one day when I was finally going to implement it into my game, it didn't work on any character anymore, and that's when I noticed nail flight was so low.
 
WarpedEcho said:
Eh, I've been wrong before, I guess the crossup thing (canceling 2nd hit of st hk into nailxx fly 2 jlp) was fixed maybe another way? idk, all I remember is one day when I was finally going to implement it into my game, it didn't work on any character anymore, and that's when I noticed nail flight was so low.
That still works though, you just have to not fly downwards with the j.lp/.lk
 
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Trying the otgless thing now, the timing is sooo so tight on it. I know my execution isn't the best, but I don't think this is something that can be done that reliably in a match, unless I'm missing something here. The input should be cr hp xx236hpxx214k 9 j mk. You pretty much have to cancel the stinger on the first frame or two, otherwise you get the otg

edit: if it still works, I guess I'm just bad haha
edit 2: it does work, I'm bad
edit 3: it only works if you can connect a point blank st hk. If you chain into st hk they won't cross over
 
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The timing is pretty tight on c.HP into j.MK. I'm not sure why I didn't mention it considering this was literally the first thing I tried, but you can use the stinger flight cancel to just link s.HP into j.MK. It's actually easier to do, and obviously you don't have to worry about using up your OTG at all.

Edit x2!: @WarpedEcho It might be character dependent, but when you're going for the s.HK cross-under... use buer, fly, link j.lp > j.lk, then hit with only two or three (don't remember which :v) hits of c.MP then chain into s.HK and it should work.
 
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Rabspat said:
The timing is pretty tight on c.HP into j.MK. I'm not sure why I didn't mention it considering this was literally the first thing I tried, but you can use the stinger flight cancel to just link s.HP into j.MK. It's actually easier to do, and obviously you don't have to worry about using up your OTG at all.

Edit x2!: @WarpedEcho It might be character dependent, but when you're going for the s.HK cross-under... use buer, fly, link j.lp > j.lk, then hit with only two or three (don't remember which :v) hits of c.MP then chain into s.HK and it should work.
It's 2 hits and thanks, good to know. Also it is character dependent. I have the chars written down that it works on somewhere, but if I remember it doesn't work on heavies, ms fortune, and someone else I don't remember. You can do it off the first hit on squigly
 
This is great. Never thought about Stinger flight being the same as Buer flight.

If that's the case, this knocks more frames off of Flight > Overhead, which is more important than combo potential. Stinger Charge xx Fly > j.LK is comfortably close to Invisible Overhead Territory.
 
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Has anyone got Charge cr. HK empty cancel into flight for instant overhead to work as a mix-up?
 
Coliflowerz said:
Has anyone got Charge cr. HK empty cancel into flight for instant overhead to work as a mix-up?

Nothing from standard ground flight can ever be considered an instant overhead.
 
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Krackatoa said:
Nothing from standard ground flight can ever be considered an instant overhead.
To elaborate on this, grounded flight startup is 15 frames, and her fastest air normal (j.lp) has 8 frames of startup, making for a total of 23 frames, slower than either of Parasouls standing overheads.
Flight startup from the air (And from buers/stingers maybe?) is 10 frames, making the fastest overhead from there 18 frames

This is based on the data in http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Painwheel#Special_Moves which I assume is correct
 
What is the start-up on the stinger-cancel? Why does it make some links doable?
 
Spencer said:
What is the start-up on the stinger-cancel? Why does it make some links doable?
fly from specials is faster and lower to the ground than from normals
 
Krackatoa said:
Nothing from standard ground flight can ever be considered an instant overhead.

Ah, yeah, incorrect terminology i guess. Just wondering if anyone has caught anyone with that.
 
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