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Painwheel tricks and resets

Does anyone have any tricks for getting fastest stinger cancel into flight? I can't do the cr.mk combo listed... Which doesn't matter, but I want to get out the fast overhead for reset purposes but it's very hard/impossible for me to do without the stinger animation showing up a bit.


Any execution tricks?
 
Dime_x said:
Does anyone have any tricks for getting fastest stinger cancel into flight? I can't do the cr.mk combo listed... Which doesn't matter, but I want to get out the fast overhead for reset purposes but it's very hard/impossible for me to do without the stinger animation showing up a bit.


Any execution tricks?

Do it faster. Do it in hitstop.

Unless you can do Stinger with 2362, you're doing it the old fashioned way.
 
Yeah I can't do it any faster hence wanting execution tricks :(

I CAN do 2362 Lp, 14k and get an instant cancel
But the execution is excruciating for me and ridiculously inconsistent :(
 
Dime_x said:
Yeah I can't do it any faster hence wanting execution tricks :(

I CAN do 2362 Lp, 14k and get an instant cancel
But the execution is excruciating for me and ridiculously inconsistent :(
Move to hitbox, become a god.
 
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Played around with cLK cMK sHP fly jLK fly jLK a lot this weekend with the hopes that people would start expecting it so I could try cLK cMK sHP fly jLK fly unfly when they reversal, but everyone just kept getting hit by the jLK over and over.
 
Hilary said:
Played around with cLK cMK sHP fly jLK fly jLK a lot this weekend with the hopes that people would start expecting it so I could try cLK cMK sHP fly jLK fly unfly when they reversal, but everyone just kept getting hit by the jLK over and over.
Double j.LK is a nice, invisible overhead that hits them if they rhythm block. I think it's even more potent with the new Stinger cancel stuff. It was one of the main things I missed about the LK.Buer nerf.
 
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It isnt resets per se, but ive been liking st.hp fly j.mk xx fly j.mk. Its a one frame gap in comboability and if they pushblock the j.mk the fly j.mk still makes them block again so calling an assist with the second fly is always available even if you started the combo with an assist. Its basically super pressure and is good for those times when you want to get a non throw opener and not be so open to mashed assist calls.


This second thing is really nice as well. St.hp xx fly j.hp (1) j.hk a 2 hit overhead that forces them to block high for a very long time. Can also cancel the j.hp into a fly and crossup.


Favorite reset ATM:

Reset with whatever, and do cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly crossup. Its old as shit of course. But i only do the one chain into a reset. This way im at point blank when i crossup so they have no time to move away or react. In practice ive seen that this makes all of my other resets fresh and confuses the opponent. Something that i love to do right now is cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx crossup j.hk, cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx crossup reset xn

Sets up overheads stupid good and gets people off of my reset points. Also kills pretty quick and cpsaves me meter while still being a high probability reset. Works in conjunction with the j.mk reset very very well.
 
Does anyone use the s.hp kara cancel into buers?

It adds a not insignificant amount of range to buers.

I've found use to be limited on lk.buers, but mk.buers seems like it could be damn good since it makes your dash > mk.buer a threat from almost full screen.
 
"Aw man, Super Sonic Jazz charged is so good and blows through my assists and I just can't seem to bait it!"

Oh my god yes.


You even have enough time to do Hatred Install into J236HK [CH]
 
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So that set up works on almost everyone.

SSJ, Gregor, Bypass, DC, Diamond Dynamo, and on. You will want to watch out for throws though. So if you'd like, you can often do charged j.hp xx Thresher too for most of the ones mentioned. With Bypass, if you practice it, you can actually cancel into a lk.buer too since it goes through you.

BB specific: Be careful with that particular set-up. Most BB in my experience are mashing SSJ, Throw, or Beat Extend. I find that it is best to take to the air (though the j.hp set-up mentioned above doesn't work vs Beat). Or just jump backwards into a block and see what they are likely to do.

Also burst baits are sexy:
j.lp > j.lk > (rejump) 7lp xx fly (I think it is lp and not lk... not 100% right now) works like a dream.

Also, j.lp > j.lk > 9j.mk xx fly > 4j.mk xx fly is super sexy too.
 
Spencer said:
So that set up works on almost everyone.

SSJ, Gregor, Bypass, DC, Diamond Dynamo, and on.
Wouldn't it just hit Gregor, Bypass, Deathcrawl, Dynamo, and so on?
I thought the only reason you get move was because you were hit by the back of the fist and because the armor let you travel through Big Bank from the first hit(s) of his armor.

I just don't think you would get hit because you can get hit until the first active frame or your DC is out. (Which would break their attack)

Edit: I was right, you just break their attack with the first hit on most supers unless it's Bypass which behaves strangely when it hits armor and you cancel from it.
 
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Oh I see. I misunderstood. I was referencing what happens in the second part of the video, not that it goes through on the first part.

Val will go through PW, but that is because she goes right through the armor (she only hits once). So yeah, it would just hit the lot of them.
 
Stinger cancel seems to confer an extra 3 frames of advantage when whiffing j.LP downwards.

SC is also friggen awesome for doing j.LK xx refly j.LK mixups.
 
Lol i love armoring through supers... And hate getting grabbed when im trying to armor through supers.

Has anyone else had absolutely amazing success with pw resets now that cr.hp/sweep is a mixup? I'm just like chargin the damn things all the time and good things are happening like hitting overheads, fly canceling over throw attempts etc etc.

Its making he rest of my mixup game rather dumb easy...like parasoul.

Not that I'm complaining, but pw mixup feels as good as filias now. Just wondering if others are seeing the same thing?
 
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@Dime_x

I've no words to tell you how much sex Squig 2hp assist + PW (hg)2hp is... no words.
 
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Combo > cr.MK,s.HP (Call Assist) xx M.Stinger xx Fly > 8j.HP(charge) > Release j.HP/Land into cr.LK

Option-selects against reversal options, up+back(When paired with Low Assist), confers a 50/50, can refly post-j.HP-on-block into a crossup j.HK.

This also eats people who try to simply hold a single direction to block and ignore the mixup. Landing into cr.LK can beat those paying attention, I think. This is all just a variation of my balahooing about Cilia Slide and similar assist setups.

Seriously. Our character is dumb.
 
I'm only baiting the anti-air specials with unfly. Any tricks I could be doing?
 
No, that's about it. You can probably counter masher Thresher in some situations. It's start up invuln will often times allow it to win trades.

You thinking any specifically? There are some burst baits for the all-purpose specials like Gregor, but I'm assuming you mean more like Fenrir?
 
I mean the a.train and anti-air specials, not supers. I currently only do unfly baiting them.
 
Oh yeah. not a ton you can do vs them outside of unfly.

A-Train is punishable, so if you make it look like you're a jumper or fly'er and the advance and not jump you can punish hard. Just think of A-Train as a 50/50 (though higher than those odds). If you guess wrong, you lose. If you guess right, you win.
 
Gonna say this again
j.MP beats a-train/brass
 
If you pre-empt it, yes.

If you j.mp after... no.

If you are moving in, you're generally free to j.mp. But if they have a charge built up, you're going to get tossed.
 
Sorry if I'm being confusing but, I want to know other times I could unfly. I'm currently only using unfly for the the most punishable specials. I won't use it all the time but, I'm not using unfly to its full potential.
 
You can unfly to bait supers. If you can get the timing of it, you can punish Parasoul's j.hp, or really you can punish most single hit air moves as you'll gain frame advantage. Also, you can make any blockstring safe by ending it with xx fly xx unfly > block.

Here's the thing though, in most cases, there are better options. If you are in a block string and unfly to block, you gave up momentum and advantage (things not easily come by for PW). So you would generally rather do a fast overhead reset unless you're sure they are mashing... but if you are that sure that they are mashing, you're generally better off going for a burst bait.

So that leaves the situation you're in. It works well vs predictable A-Train and Excellabellas, but I've not found much use for it outside of those situations.

As far as I know, there is no real tech coming out of unfly... at least I'm not seeing it anyway.
 
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Also my mid-screen burst-baits(most of my baits are in the corner) and air resets are lacking. Any noteworthy?
 
Has anyone considered using empty fly low? (is that even a term?)
I come from street fighter, and I get opened up by empty jump low a lot, even in marvel I see a lot of empty air dash low type stuff.
I am sure as a reset mid combo, if they are expecting a high reset, you could fly unfly low, that is if they arent mashing, but the unfly should give you time to block whatever they mashed out right?

Or if they block cerecopter assist, and just after bellas arms stop spinning you go for the empty fly unfly low

Its an idea, just thought I would see if anyone was using this idea already.
 
the only issue with that is that it's slow as a reset, PW's cr.lk has 11-frames startup combined with 15 frames startup on the fly (from the ground). I just wanted to point out the downside, but I would recommend giving it a try and seeing if it works for you. I like doing fly (call assist) xx unfly -> low in neutral sometimes, but as a reset you might get poked out more often than not unless you're using a good lockdown assist ( like cerecopter, as you mentioned )

tl;dr - give it a try, if it works in your game then use it :-)
 
darkzero197 said:
I am sure as a reset mid combo, if they are expecting a high reset, you could fly unfly low, that is if they arent mashing, but the unfly should give you time to block whatever they mashed out right?

Or if they block cerecopter assist, and just after bellas arms stop spinning you go for the empty fly unfly low

Yes. Focus more on using it in situations/reads where you're blocking something with the unfly. Best case scenario you get the unfly guard cancel, worst case scenario you chicken block their reversal/jab. If you unfly and they do nothing, low/throw is good if done quickly enough.

As for cerecopter assist, you can generally do whatever you want as long as they didn't PBGC or AC you. Cerecopter as a lockdown assist is cool, but unless they've demonstrated an absolute inability to do those things, always consider that risk.
 
Ah I see, I was just wondering if anyone else found it effective or used it for that matter, I have rarely ever used it, but it has proven to work against better players, because I run into a couple guys who just downback all day regardless of if theyre trying to block a mixup or not

Thanks though, I will try to come up with more stuff where this can be useful
 
darkzero197 said:
Ah I see, I was just wondering if anyone else found it effective or used it for that matter, I have rarely ever used it, but it has proven to work against better players, because I run into a couple guys who just downback all day regardless of if theyre trying to block a mixup or not

Thanks though, I will try to come up with more stuff where this can be useful
I don't think it's a good player or bad player kind of thing, I think it's more just certain players have certain tendencies on defense. Recognizing and exploiting those tendencies is part of the game. If you're positive someone is downbacking, reset with overheads or crossups or throws (if you're REALLY sure they're downbacking, do one of those first two, don't use throws cause it scales your damage).
 
mcpeanuts said:
I don't think it's a good player or bad player kind of thing, I think it's more just certain players have certain tendencies on defense. Recognizing and exploiting those tendencies is part of the game. If you're positive someone is downbacking, reset with overheads or crossups or throws (if you're REALLY sure they're downbacking, do one of those first two, don't use throws cause it scales your damage).


You are probably right, never saw it that way, thanks for the advice
 
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Found a couple near incredible things with pw and squigly cr.hp assist:

Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly plus assist macro, j.hk


Is near impossible to block.. Its just spaced out enough to not grant unblockable protection, but so close that switching blocks is very hard. Holding either down back to block low or back to block high doesnt work. You have to block low first then switch to a high block in like 1-2 frames.


The second near incredible thing is doing the same thing with j.mk instead of j.hk produces a high low that grants unblockable protection by blocking high first (you get hit if you block low) but... The thing is that for whatever reason, the j.mk cannot be pushblocked. So pw is basically in again for free while the opponent is locked down...this is a great setup for mindgames and also a good repressure for when the opponent is sitting on max undizzy... The ability to pressure the opponent while they cant pushblock you out is incredibly strong.


So yeah, just a couple of random things i came across while trying out this assist.
 
Lol high execution ridiculous midscreen burst bait:


Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly df lk,cr.mk,st.hp plus squigly cr.hp assist, xx fly f airthrow wiff, empty stinger cancel b j.lk or j.lp depending on character.
 
Probably well known but you can link into Buer Thresher from LK Buer on Filia, Cerebella and Big Band.

This lets you do some cooler things with LK Buer without the fear of throwing them across the screen getting nothing even if it connects.

 
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Also s.hk.buer > thresher works and is awesome for shutting down j.hp spamming Squiglies. Parasouls who don't respect you. And BBs since we all know they are jumping toward you, pushing buttons at the start of the match.
 
New primary reset point because mad options yo:


Lp stinger, dash st.lp,st.lk,cr.mp (1) then:

Either st.hp into st.hp resets, or st.hk x1 into crossup/non crossup mixup, or st.hk x2 into stinger crossup/non crossup/airthrow reset or st.hk x3 into j.hk plus assist crossup.

St.hp resets are:

St.hp xx fly plus assist, crossup.
St.hp xx f+mk (safejump against every character in the game save for ssj and val counter, also is a non crossup for a solid left/right mixup)
St.hp xx fly fastfall throw.


And as a mixup for when the reset occurs, you can use st.lp into mixups, or st.lp,st.mp into launcher mixups that include airthrows, frametraps, and crossups. And finally if that isnt good enough to complicate where your reset will come from, you have st.lp,st.mp, j.mp (4) xx airthrow, or j.mp (4) xx fly j.mp frametrap (stolen from skyking, and works great for catching airthrow tech attempts) or j.mp(4) xx df j.lp burst bait (hits people that mash tech or mash reversal)


So thats a lot of resets that all have mixups on them and none are gimmicky.
 
Some more painwheel burst baits:

Tracked j.lp post stage 5:

St.hk (3) xx fly, up +j.lp

the mixup is to airthrow instead of j.lp, the airthrow works on everyone, the burst bait doesnt work on heavies, parasoul, Eliza and squigly (works on pw,peacock, fortune, val, filia.

Its most important against val, fortune and filia i would guess since they have mashable anywhere supers and they can be scary to reset. Peacock doesnt matter much because shes free to most resets anyways.

This burst bait ties into the mixups i outlined on the post above perfectly.

And a general anti mash burst bait, not super effective but can allow pw to position herself well via flight:

St.hk (3) immediate jump back j.lp, universal afaik but not much incentive for the opponent to push buttons besides an airthrow trick.


The st.hp reset psychological theory:

Do any combo into st.hp and fly cancel into throw, loop this if you can x "n" until the opponent starts to do something about it such as hold upback preemptively, or mash tech, or mash reversal.

Once the opponent starts to do any of those, start to do st.hp xx fly j.mk as a safejump. It will beat upback, throw tech mash, and reversals not named ssj or val counter.

The way to beat the j.mk for the opponent, is to pushblock it.
Mixing up the reset point between ending chains in st.hk and going for those mixups, or ending the chain in st.hp and going for those mixups, is a very strong thing because of all the completely different options pw gets from these.
 
It's probably been mentioned before, but I love m.bomber,immediate M or H buer, fly, j.MP. It makes M and H buer more viable in neutral.
 
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