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Please stop calling it "Absolute Guard."

Broken Loose

Broken Loose

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Look, I know that the dude who made the most of you aware of it called it that, but it's wrong. Why is it wrong?

Absolute Guard is a thing that already exists in most fighting games, Skullgirls included, that refers to something else.

So what is Absolute Guard?
Absolute Guard is when blockstun keeps you blocking even if you stop holding Back. If you want an easy demonstration of how it works, just block the first hit of Cerecopter and then let go of the stick. You will keep blocking it because Skullgirls has Absolute Guard.

In fact, the most notable instances of Absolute Guard are when it doesn't exist-- like when players realized pushblocking ended blockstun in MvC3, or how Third Strike lacks Absolute Guard altogether so you can Red Parry.

Whoever coined the term to refer to omnidirectional blocking obviously didn't know what Absolute Guard was. They also, as a result, didn't know that Absolute Guard was already in the game and now I have to jump through hoops to explain game concepts to people because everybody's calling a tomato a potato.

So what should we call the new thingy that's definitely NOT Absolute Guard?
I don't know! Fuzzy Guard, Pushblock, Chicken Block, Super Armor, Hyper Armor, Guard Point, Faultless Defense, Auto Guard, and Absolute Guard are taken.

Call it Perfect Blocking. All Blocking. Call it Omniblock or Omniguard. A more descriptive term would be "Force Unblockable Prevention," as that's how it's coded into the game (note how you get purple hitboxes in training mode which signify the unblockable prevention). Shit, call it Purple Guard! Mixup Prevention! Marvel 2 Megablocking (because this existed back then, and it STILL wasn't Absolute Guard back then, either)! Turtle Mode! Broken Loose's Overly Complicated Command Name (which shortens to BLOCCN, as in "bloccning")! Advanced Blocking is probably the closest "classical" term we can use for this, but it's dangerously close to Advancing Guard, which is the original name for Pushblock.


Next time, we will talk about Drama and why Undizzy is a really, really unintuitive and confusing name for it when talking to people who haven't played Marvel 2 and also XSF, MSH, or CoTA. Drama! Green sparks*! It's that easy!


*I prefer "Peppermint Sparks" because I call the pink IPS sparks "Bubblegum Sparks." :3
 
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i havent heard anybody calling unblockable protection absolute guard like ever.

edit : in fact thats what we should call it.
 
The thing you're referring to is "Active Blocking".

wikitionary as a source when anyone can edit it.


"Absolute Guard" is the thing was called that Skullgirls has that existed in MvC2 and prior versus games and named as such by the community. The only time I've seen it refer to what you're calling it since I've traversed the FGC back in 02 to now is in the MvC3 wiki and it existed since SF2 afaik.
 
Stop it! You're ruining Mike's honeymoon. =/
#Kappa
 
Mr. X said:
The thing you're referring to is "Active Blocking".

wikitionary as a source when anyone can edit it.


"Absolute Guard" is the thing was called that Skullgirls has that existed in MvC2 and prior versus games. The only time I've seen it refer to what you're calling it since I've traversed the FGC back in 02 to now is in the MvC3 wiki and it existed since SF2 afaik.

Funny that, because the thing you're calling Absolute Guard wasn't actually known about until last year, which is why it got patched into SDE instead of being in the game from the get-go.

http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Glossary Oh, look at that, VS players also use the term for this. As does the Third Strike strategy guide from 2004. The only times the phrase "active blocking" is used, the term "absolute guard" is also used (mainly because AB is the Japanese term for AG).


edit: https://www.google.com/search?q=fighting+game+"absolute+guard" and it turns out most people disagree with you, the most common results for "absolute guard" are people complaining about the thing I'm referring to and how it makes reversals mad easy in Street Fighter 4. Back in 2011 and earlier.
 
Broken Loose said:
Funny that, because the thing you're calling Absolute Guard wasn't actually known about until last year, which is why it got patched into SDE instead of being in the game from the get-go.

http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Glossary Oh, look at that, VS players also use the term for this. As does the Third Strike strategy guide from 2004. The only times the phrase "active blocking" is used, the term "absolute guard" is also used (mainly because AB is the Japanese term for AG).

You're saying Absolute Guard in the versus series (XvSF to MvC2) was not known until last year?
 
Mr. X said:
You're saying Absolute Guard in the versus series (XvSF to MvC2) was not known about until last year?
I'm saying that omnidirectional blocking in the Vs. series was not explicitly identified until last year, even though players were accidentally using it during Marvel 2's lifespan to escape mixups (like most fighting game mechanics). Absolute Guard as a term referred to a different thing during Marvel 2.
 
Wait hold on just noticed

You're okay with Passive/Active Blocking being renamed and called something else.
And you're okay with fuzzy guard being used to describe something it's not.

But Absolute Guard is the where you draw the line?

Are you okay with the misuse of the word "abare"?
 
Zidiane said:
I never called it absolute guard before... but now I'll always call it absolute guard when I know you're listening.
Congratulations, you care more about trolling than you do about confusing the shit out of new players. I guess that's why the running theme of Skullgirls is that "2 players consistute a tournament, and 3 a major!"


Mr. X said:
Wait hold on just noticed

You're okay with Passive/Active Blocking being renamed and called something else.
And you're okay with fuzzy guard being used to describe something it's not.

But Absolute Guard is the where you draw the line?

Are you okay with the misuse of the word "abare"?

Ah, I think I see your issue.

You came from anime games. Anime games use these terms to refer to different things from 6-button games, although Anime Fuzzy Guard is Skullgirls Fuzzy Guard where 3d Fuzzy Guard is the different one. Also, I never use "abare" because it's not English (instead I say "ability to convert").

If you want to call AG "active blocking," knock yourself out, but that doesn't open up AG as a new term to be used to refer to something entirely not it. I don't call throw techs "abare" just because I don't refer to converting off random hits as abare; that would just be needlessly confusing for people coming from other games.

This is also why I'd rather not use things like "faultless defense" to refer to it, because the term isn't available for use.
 
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Broken Loose said:
Congratulations, you care more about trolling than you do about confusing the shit out of new players. I guess that's why the running theme of Skullgirls is that "2 players consistute a tournament, and 3 a major!"
I'm almost positive that I've done a lot for new players already. If I want to pick one or two rare occasions where you and I are in a room and I for some reason am talking about something that allows me to use the phrase absolute guard, I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
 
I'm fine with renaming the Absolute Guard (I suggest All Guard or All Guard Glitch) since the new FGC fucked up a lot of the terminology like plink replacing the word kara for the most part.

I just find your premise to be poor since, you think you're right about the meaning when you're also contributing to the calling things by the wrong names and refuse to acknowledge it.

Edit: lol @ they were doing it accidentally
 
Also, since we're on the topic, isn't it confusing for new players that we never ever use the terms for stuff that's used in the tutorials, and instead use terms like DHC, Snapback, Alpha Counter, PushBlock, etc.?
 
Mr. X said:
I'm fine with renaming the Absolute Guard (I suggest All Guard or All Guard Glitch) since the new FGC fucked up a lot of the terminology like plink replacing the word kara for the most part.

I just find your premise to be poor since, you think you're right about the meaning when you're also contributing to the calling things by the wrong names and refuse to acknowledge it.
I agree with you on the former bit with post-2009 terminology, but I assure you I learned what Absolute Guard was from playing Third Strike back in 2004 when the PS2 Anniversary Collection came out.

Zidiane said:
Also, since we're on the topic, isn't it confusing for new players that we never ever use the terms for stuff that's used in the tutorials, and instead use terms like DHC, Snapback, Alpha Counter, PushBlock, etc.?
Yes and no. These terms have direct analogs that are in active use in an incredibly similar game. It doesn't alienate people necessarily, because there are a lot of Marvel players that would be equally alienated if their terms weren't used.

The situation I'm describing is when MvC3 players started referring to the DHC Glitch as just DHC, as in "that character can DHC," because hoooly fuck that was confusing.
 
Broken Loose said:
I agree with you on the former bit with post-2009 terminology, but I assure you I learned what Absolute Guard was from playing Third Strike back in 2004 when the PS2 Anniversary Collection came out.
Hey, funny because it was referred to as active blocking in the 3sAC system direction which is where I first seen a term for it.
 
Mr. X said:
Hey, funny because in the system direction it was referred to as active blocking in the 3sAC system direction which is where I first seen a term for it.
And as I said, Active Blocking/Guard was the Japanese community's term for something that American players were calling Absolute Blocking/Guard, which explains our disagreement on this! :)
 
Broken Loose said:
Yes and no. These terms have direct analogs that are in active use in an incredibly similar game. It doesn't alienate people necessarily, because there are a lot of Marvel players that would be equally alienated if their terms weren't used.
Well, I'm talking about "New Players", not people from other communities. People who've never heard any terms before should be rightly confounded when everything they just learned in the tutorial is completely dismissed by the community. I'm sure there are people who have this as their first fighting game who are using the terms Stunt Double, Block Buster, Dramatic Tension, Ensembles, etc.
 
I cannot believe we called it The Mauve Avenger.
 
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Zidiane said:
Well, I'm talking about "New Players", not people from other communities. People who've never heard any terms before should be rightly confounded when everything they just learned in the tutorial is completely dismissed by the community. I'm sure there are people who have this as their first fighting game who are using the terms Stunt Double, Block Buster, Dramatic Tension, Ensembles, etc.
And hey, you know? That's fine. We can call Assists Ensembles. We can call Supers Blockbusters. We can call mashing DAF Zidiane. I only view it as a problem once we start calling Ensembles Supers. Make sense?
 
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Zidiane said:
Also, since we're on the topic, isn't it confusing for new players that we never ever use the terms for stuff that's used in the tutorials, and instead use terms like DHC, Snapback, Alpha Counter, PushBlock, etc.?
yes
 
Broken Loose said:
And hey, you know? That's fine. We can call Assists Ensembles. We can call Supers Blockbusters. We can call mashing DAF Zidiane. I only view it as a problem once we start calling Ensembles Supers. Make sense?
So... you're only fine with confusing new players when it doesn't irk you...?
 
Zidiane said:
So... you're only fine with confusing new players when it doesn't irk you...?
No, I'm fine with using multiple terms for a single item when the terms don't overlap with other, already existing terms.
 
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Zidiane said:
So... you're only fine with confusing new players when it doesn't irk you...?
Broken Loose is saying that he's fine with people using terms that aren't already taken and being used (ex: calling Assists, Ensembles) but not if you're confusing terms (ex calling Assists, Supers)
 
It takes as much time to teach someone a new meaning for a word they've learned as it takes to learn a new word for something they knew all along.
 
Zidiane said:
It takes as much time to teach someone a new meaning for a word they've learned as it takes to learn a new word for something they knew all along.
[citation fucking needed]

But even in the absence of data proving your claim, it's irrelevant because we are referring to teaching people about something they didn't know existed prior to learning the term. People didn't know about Advanced Blocking in Skullgirls prior to Worldjem's video that immediately called it Absolute Guard. If we stop calling it AG, then future generations of players won't have to relearn anything at all and the difficulty only lies on the current crop of players.
 
Broken Loose said:
[citation fucking needed]
It takes me the same amount of time. I figured it was universal. Is it not?

we are referring to teaching people about something they didn't know existed prior to learning the term.
Because new players knew about DHC's before picking up their first fighting game...? And if their first fighting game happens to be Skullgirls, then... ugh, I'm tired of arguing.
 
Broken Loose said:
Absolute Guard is when blockstun keeps you blocking even if you stop holding Back.

...isn't that just 'blockstun'? I mean there's a kind of 'omni-block' with left/rights as far as I know, but why on earth would you call being in blockstun when you block something "absolute guard"?

I'm maybe being a little obtuse, but I do honestly feel what you describe as 'absolute guard' is system knowledge that doesn't need its own name. Sort of like whether or not you can block while in the air; once someone tells you that's how it works in sg, you'll never need to use that name. Compare that to the pushblock -> change blocking direction for temporary protection from high/lows, which is a *technique* to be learned which probably does need a name that describes what it does.
 
Age said:
...isn't that just 'blockstun'? I mean there's a kind of 'omni-block' with left/rights as far as I know, but why on earth would you call being in blockstun when you block something "absolute guard"?

I'm maybe being a little obtuse, but I do honestly feel what you describe as 'absolute guard' is system knowledge that doesn't need its own name. Sort of like whether or not you can block while in the air; once someone tells you that's how it works in sg, you'll never need to use that name. Compare that to the pushblock -> change blocking direction for temporary protection from high/lows, which is a *technique* to be learned which probably does need a name that describes what it does.
Some games, like 3rd Strike as mentioned, have blockstun but don't have absolute guard.

You're being obtuse, but not as obtuse as Zidiane.
 
3s is pretty much the only example, and it exists only for the purposes of red parry.


EDIT: only ever calling it absolute guard from now on (okay also perfect guard)
 
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Petty argument and poor rhetoric are the two main things that prevent this suggestion from having any long lasting traction. Even if this is a good idea you won't be the one who makes it happen unless you change the mood of the conversation.
 
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ragnorok64 said:
What the crap is everyone referring to?
Pushblock and block the other direction (block high if you pushblock low, etc.) and you will block both high and low for the duration of the pushblock animation. Underused and great for avoiding high/low mixups.

Honestly, as someone who's completely new to fighting games in general (and SG [beta] being the first and only fighting game I've played), I've always been calling it Absolute Guard just because everybody else has been calling it around here, and people seem to understand what I mean when I talk about it.
 
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ragnorok64 said:
What the crap is everyone referring to?
That thing where you pushblock and get protection from highs and lows by moving the stick to downback if standblocking or back if crouchblocking.
 
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