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[POLL] Are you looking forward to the beta changes?

Are you looking forward to the beta changes?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 45.2%

  • No, I prefer MDE (Squigly Patch)

    Votes: 25 24.0%

  • No and I don't prefer MDE

    Votes: 5 4.8%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • I don't care. I will continue playing/avoiding the game the same amount either way.

    Votes: 23 22.1%

  • Other (Elaborate in a post)

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Total voters
    104
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Visible undizzy indicator and undizzy burst not triggering until stage 5 are pretty great.

Faster undizzy decay is icing.
 
blufang said:
Why was this thread created? Everyone has said their piece, and said it a hundred times. This topic was exhausted in the poll weather to put the beta changes in the real game. It is going in the real game, this poll is pointless, I don't know if it is a last ditch attempt for Mike Z to change his mind...but this thread is wasteful.
Mr. X said:
It's going to happen, I'd rather it be in one thread instead of slipping into others or people feeling there's things they can't talk about and discouraged.
 
Man this is "get fucked boys: the thread"
 
Me MikeZ me play joke me put... er... undizzy in your Coke.

Will meter gain be looked at anytime soon? It's just weird that the losing side gets a reward for like not doing anything. :/
 
lol being able to burst because of undizzy is a reward the losing side gets for doing nothing but losing neutral.

Also I thought this games comeback mechanic was supposed to be meter? But maybe people are gaining too much for getting hit by resets. I wouldn't know I only look at my opponents meter at neutral or if I need to know what resets I shouldn't go for because of their super reversals.
 
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Oh is that how that works? Well then.
 
The attacker's Meter gain is based on the combo damage scaling. The longer the combo gets, the less meter the attacker gets but the defender's meter gain is constant for the entire combo.

Shorter combos (in the beta) and short resets actually shifts meter gain to favor the attacker more, compared to long combos which give the defender tons of meter.
 
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Soooo again we clear that neutral game refers to two players...

1. Not getting clean touch on the oppotent where it's blocking or comboing
2. Not getting cornered
3. Not knockdown.
4. Equal postions, and both players trying to get the advantage one or another? Think like the opening start of a MMA match.

Again I fine with lowering the punishment for getting hit once isn't so serve. I really hope this demand for more "netrual" game ends with long combos. Nothing else is going to change the fact that once Skullgirl character touches you, the loser player will be at the disadvantage. Standing resets after getting a clean confirms means that losing players is at the disadvantage.

The thing is if we want Skullgirl to be a little bit more fast paced, you still have to make seem like their high stakes involve. As long as there powerful blockstrings/resets/mixups/pressure/rushdown,etc. Nothing is going to change the fact is Skullgirl is tad bit momentum based.
-----------------------------------
With all of that said...

Futurama-Neutral.jpg
 
Most fighting games are heavily Momentum based once somebody gets an advantage, if the attacker knows what he's doing.

The only difference is, sometimes that momentum takes the form of unstoppable safe meaty mixup option selects (SF4) or insane unreactable resets (SG/Marvel 2) or TOD combos + insane unreactable incoming mixups (Marvel 3) or a big life lead and a looming timeout (SFxT) or 80 second long infinites (lol SF Alpha 3).

The benefit of shorter combos is that your opponent doesn't have to wait 30 seconds for his next chance to get out every time he gets touched. Overall the number of touches it takes to kill somebody hasn't really gone up by that much, you just spend less time waiting for the combo to finish. Matches are still very momentum heavy but there's less waiting, faster paced matches and overall more 'interactions per second' in a match, even if that takes the form of guessing resets and mixups and not neutral game.
 
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So can we forever stop saying that these changes will improve the neutral game?

I don't think the pacing of matches improve either when it comes to speed. At least not for every character. I don't know what val's damage output is now, but from my experience playing her in the beta its pretty freaking hard to actually kill someone.

Can anyone who's actually good with val share your thoooooughts
 
I guess that depends on how you define "pace" but to me it has more to do with how much action/interaction is going on, rather then how much damage your combos do or how many touches it takes to kill somebody.
 
I may be partially to blame for these changes. Sorry for hitting people so much. :(
 
mcpeanuts said:
The changes are good but my suggestion is I hate video games and this should be a board game instead. Mike Z patch pls.

In a proper operation, the player turns the crank, which rotates a vertical gear, connected to a horizontal gear. As that gear turns, it pushes an elastic-loaded lever until it snaps back in place, hitting a swinging boot. This causes the boot to kick over a bucket, sending a marble down a zig-zagging incline (the "rickety stairs") which feeds into a chute. This leads the marble to hit a vertical pole, at the top of which is an open hand, palm-up, which is supporting a larger ball (changed later on to a marble just like the starter one). The movement of the pole knocks the ball free to fall through a hole in its platform into a bathtub, and then through a hole in the tub onto one end of a seesaw. This launches a diver on the other end into a tub which is on the same base as the barbed pole supporting the mouse cage. The movement of the tub shakes the cage free from the top of the pole and allows it to fall. st.LP, st.LP, st.MP, st.HP xx Bang xx Argus Agony.
 
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hlvn said:
In a proper operation, the player turns the crank, which rotates a vertical gear, connected to a horizontal gear. As that gear turns, it pushes an elastic-loaded lever until it snaps back in place, hitting a swinging boot. This causes the boot to kick over a bucket, sending a marble down a zig-zagging incline (the "rickety stairs") which feeds into a chute. This leads the marble to hit a vertical pole, at the top of which is an open hand, palm-up, which is supporting a larger ball (changed later on to a marble just like the starter one). The movement of the pole knocks the ball free to fall through a hole in its platform into a bathtub, and then through a hole in the tub onto one end of a seesaw. This launches a diver on the other end into a tub which is on the same base as the barbed pole supporting the mouse cage. The movement of the tub shakes the cage free from the top of the pole and allows it to fall. st.LP, st.LP, st.MP, st.HP xx Bang xx Argus Agony.
Haha Jesus Christ
 
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Darklightjg1 said:
I may be partially to blame for these changes. Sorry for hitting people so much. :(

Should have played nice! Give players more chances! :(
 
Yep, the changes now make it so that you die from 2 hits instead of dying from 2 hits.
 
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Jason said:
To make combos shorter, because the current length is obnoxious and slows down the flow of the game. All the extra stuff people talk about bringing in new players or making the game easier to play? Its just gravy.

How many of them should have a say in the matter? The only person who really matters, Mr. Mike Z, has already weighed in on the subject. He likes the changes or he wouldn't have started this experiment in the first place.
Read the rest of my post because you answered nothing.

Broken Loose said:
Real fucking talk.

Mike has expressed exasperation as this community a shitload, lately. He's come close to just taking his hands off the game several times! I didn't really understand why until now; I underestimated how fucking stupid many of you are.

If you do 999 Undizzy to somebody by some miracle and kill a character in MDE, what happens when you touch the incoming character? If you meaty them, you get a green spark. If even a single goddamn frame goes by where you're not hitting them, nothing happens. Nothing happens because you can't accrue Undizzy before Combo Stage 5! They're stuck at 349 for 3-4 whole chains, during which you can do WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT.

Now, in Beta, the counter doesn't go down before deteriorating like it does in MDE. Oh no! What will happen if you accrue 999 Undizzy and touch somebody? NOTHING AGAIN. Because he listened to your relentless bitching and made it so you can't trigger green sparks before Combo Stage 5.

That's right. If your idea of a reset is to do a 9k BnB but do a meaty throw instead of the last hit, THE GAME WILL LET YOU. In fact, you can whip out 2 whole magic series before you even have to think about the evil Green Spark Boogeyman who's gonna referee your combos out of the game! Not only that, but it turns out that the current limit is more than enough to kill an opponent from 100% health 2v3 off a c.LK for just 2 fucking meters!

Even worse, as I've already stated 3 times in this shitfucking thread, the Beta changes allow you to perform longer combos followed by resets than you could before because the deterioration rate is so high that it's almost goddamn meaningless!

I swear to fucking Christ, you're trolling. I'm being trolled. You're just being contrarian and stirring up shit because you want a reaction. Here's your fucking reaction, you goddamn retards. The facts are in your favor. The new version of the game is here specifically to fellate you. Get fucked.
1. Do you know how fast some can reach stage 5? If I go for a throw combo, a double overhead, a crossup super DHC, etc, I'm done because the game told me to calm down. And if I do a normal combo starter, I still won't get that much from it because undizzy wouldn't have dropped enough.

Now if you'd be so kind as to actually stop and think about it from the perspective we're looking at it from, instead of flinging around insults and making yourself look like a ranting fool. Or don't, see if I care (I will :<) (No I won't).
 
RemiKz said:
Then it begs the question,

why is it a thing?
So you have to spend resources?
You now may actually have to make a decision on whether to reset multiple times to kill meter-positively or to use your meter for a safe knockout.

And it evidently shortens combos, even if the damage isn't affected much - you know, take two games:
- Game1 has 60 second combos which deal 8001 damage
- Game2 has 15 second combos which deal 8000 damage
Clearly the damage difference isn't huge, but it's still a significant change to one-player-ness and general gamepace, you know?
Maybe the intention of the patch was never to noticeably lower the damage, and just to shorten combos.

But yes I agree, the changes aren't strict enough in the slightest (I'm sure that's what you wanted to express)
 
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rayplay said:
1. Do you know how fast some can reach stage 5? If I go for a throw combo, a double overhead, a crossup super DHC, etc, I'm done because the game told me to calm down. And if I do a normal combo starter, I still won't get that much from it because undizzy wouldn't have dropped enough.

Yes, I do know. At least 2 chains.
 
Can we either immediately get this update or wait a really, really long time for it. That's what I want.
Broken Loose said:
Real fucking talk.

Mike has expressed exasperation as this community a shitload, lately. He's come close to just taking his hands off the game

Then why isn't he following his own advice? This is exactly what we need, at this pace mike Z is pulling MK9 2.0 and we all know how well that went.
 
Jason said:
I guess that depends on how you define "pace" but to me it has more to do with how much action/interaction is going on, rather then how much damage your combos do or how many touches it takes to kill somebody.

Vampire Savior had some of the best 'pace', despite not having super long combos. Long combos have nothing to do with pace, except slowing things to a halt as one player is comboed.
 
Well then how strict can combo shorten patch can possibly be? I would love to see how strict it could possibly get, and just experiment with that.

Jason said:
snip

The only difference is, sometimes that momentum takes the form of unstoppable safe meaty mixup option selects (SF4) or insane unreactable resets (SG/Marvel 2) or TOD combos + insane unreactable incoming mixups (Marvel 3) or a big life lead and a looming timeout (SFxT) or 80 second long infinites (lol SF Alpha 3).

The benefit of shorter combos is that your opponent doesn't have to wait 30 seconds for his next chance to get out every time he gets touched. Overall the number of touches it takes to kill somebody hasn't really gone up by that much, you just spend less time waiting for the combo to finish. Matches are still very momentum heavy but there's less waiting, faster paced matches and overall more 'interactions per second' in a match, even if that takes the form of guessing resets and mixups and not neutral game.
I agree with all fighters have some sense momentum or slippery slopes no matter what. Through some games overall focus a little more pokes/footsies/space control then say mixups/rushdown/blockstring/etc. . Kind of how SFXT v2012 where most offensive wasn't really good until much later with patches. That's why I'm just overall curious on exactly people are trying to achieve with SG's lower combo length.

Anywho, I'm all fine giving people a chance to fight a back, and lower the combo length. It's not going to change the fact if a good player touches, they can control the losing player no matter what.
 
Let me say what really determines pace.

1. Movement speed
2. Movement options (air dashes, dashes, flight, etc.)
3. How safe pressure is

SF4 is slow paced cause the characters are slow as hell, and it is harder to safely pressure opponents than many other games. Nothing to do with its combo length.
 
hlvn said:
In a proper operation, the player turns the crank, which rotates a vertical gear, connected to a horizontal gear. As that gear turns, it pushes an elastic-loaded lever until it snaps back in place, hitting a swinging boot. This causes the boot to kick over a bucket, sending a marble down a zig-zagging incline (the "rickety stairs") which feeds into a chute. This leads the marble to hit a vertical pole, at the top of which is an open hand, palm-up, which is supporting a larger ball (changed later on to a marble just like the starter one). The movement of the pole knocks the ball free to fall through a hole in its platform into a bathtub, and then through a hole in the tub onto one end of a seesaw. This launches a diver on the other end into a tub which is on the same base as the barbed pole supporting the mouse cage. The movement of the tub shakes the cage free from the top of the pole and allows it to fall. st.LP, st.LP, st.MP, st.HP xx Bang xx Argus Agony.
This makes me sad because when I finally got Mouse Trap I realized I had no friends to play it with.
Damn. When's Mouse Trap on GGPO?
 
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KhaosMuffins said:
This makes me sad because when I finally got Mouse Trap I realized I had no friends to play it with.
Damn. When's Mouse Trap on GGPO?

That's actually really sad. Like almost as sad as the five year old in all of us that thought there would actually be lightning and self-spawning gladiator arenas in every box of Crossfire.

Mouse Trap MM me at Evo.
 
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dekillsage said:
lol being able to burst because of undizzy is a reward the losing side gets for doing nothing but losing neutral.

Being able to burst because of undizzy is more burst bait opportunities.
 
Im still playing and enjoying(a lot) SDE myself
I sure do wanna try playing Squigly though...
 
Broken Loose said:
Almost every combo from MvC2 was only 2 chains.

MvC2 has a reputation for having lengthy combos for some reason.
1. This isn't MvC2
2. Combos don't work like in MvC2
3. There are short combos that can kill/do a ton of damage in MvC2, like storm stuff dhc to hsf.
 
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rayplay said:
1. This isn't MvC2
2. Combos don't work like in MvC2
3. There are short combos that can kill/do a ton of damage in MvC2, like storm stuff dhc to hsf.

That's one of my favorite combos, but to be fair it does costs 2 bars to do. On the flip-side, building meter for Storm is pretty easy.
 
rayplay said:
1. This isn't MvC2
2. Combos don't work like in MvC2
3. There are short combos that can kill/do a ton of damage in MvC2, like storm stuff dhc to hsf.
The game was inspired by MvC2. I thought this was already common knowledge.
 
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