POLL: Keep Fukua in the game?

[Ruin]

give a starving man an apple and he'll say he wanted an orange

 

[CrackedMarbles]

Likewise you don't see many pre-cut diamonds in the display case of your local jewelry store. I have nothing against Fukua as a character or a joke. But people in this thread look like they are willing to settle for far less than this game deserves and it's worrisome.

I appreciate you approaching this topic level-headedly, instead of with sarcasm, smugness, or rudeness.

But people will buy a pre-cut diamond. Some of the most prestigious Goldsmiths* in the world can get no work done without any materials or catalysts.

*Capitalized because last name, yo.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I dunno... seems like some people had a bad experience with MK's ninjas.

For me it was the Smash Bros series.

*Community complains that Melee has too many clone characters*

*Sakurai states that Brawl will have no clone characters*

*Brawl is released, has more cloned characters than Melee*

 

[Icky]

I just finished a set with @Icky using Fukua. She definitely needs work, but she's totally viable. The j.HK > j.HP loop as a CH is a nightmare for Big Band. Also, BFF Super is hella stupid with its invincibility. And somehow her standard cmd grab beats out meaty grabs (I think).

I'm fine with Fukua as she is, but I also welcome any balancing Mike may do to her over time, since the animation polish isn't happening (Mike said it himself, so please stop bringing that up). All we can hope for at this point is gameplay/balance tweaks.

Yeah, on the surface she has some really good stuff time will tell though! That super is sooo hard to punish though x_x

 

[IsaVulpes]

False Analogy.
Appeal to Consequences.

I'm sure you can explain me in detail how these two have anything to do with what I wrote.

 

[Φ]

For me it was the Smash Bros series.

*Community complains that Melee has too many clone characters*

*Sakurai states that Brawl will have no clone characters*

*Brawl is released, has more cloned characters than Melee*

I didn't complain much, I welcomed each character. And I actually liked some of the clones, Dr. Mario was much better than Mario, imo.

 

[Banazama]

If there is anything that is dumb, it's trying to talk about a character's viability when she has been out for less than 15 hours.

No offense to you, but it just shouldn't be a part of any argument involving Fukua.

Did I actually write that? I wrote so much that it's hard to remember all of it. But I swear I never talked about viability ever in my post.

 

[IsaVulpes]

give a starving man an apple and he'll say he wanted an orange

It's more like you give a starving man a piece of cake, and then, thinking that's probably not enough food for him to get by with, you take a big dump, smear your poop on the cake and say "Well, it's more now! Be happy!"

 

[gllt]

I'll admit I had trouble punishing that super with itself even. KK Fukua super needs more recovery.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I appreciate you approaching this topic level-headedly, instead of with sarcasm, smugness, or rudeness.

*Capitalized because last name, yo.

I feel part of this is directed to me, I'm a tad snarky. Sorry. =X

 

[Icky]

Th

It's more like you give a starving man a piece of cake, and then, thinking that's probably not enough food for him to get by with, you take a big dump, smear your poop on the cake and say "Well, it's more now! Be happy!"

This made me laugh out loud

 

[CrackedMarbles]

It's more like you give a starving man a piece of cake, and then, thinking that's probably not enough food for him to get by with, you take a big dump, smear your poop on the cake and say "Well, it's more now! Be happy!"

It is not like that. But that is funny.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I'm ok with her staying under 1 condition, you can't pick her and Filia on the same team, kind of like Kyo and EX Kyo/Iori in KoFXIII.

1 Filia is annoying enough as it is, I dont wanna kill a Filia just to deal with another one -__-

 

[Flotilla]

Did I actually write that? I wrote so much that it's hard to remember all of it. But I swear I never talked about viability ever in my post.

You talk about move utility, which goes hand-in-hand with character viability (but more importantly in Fukua's case, uniqueness-of-playstyle). You can't gauge that less than a day after a character comes out.

It's more like you give a starving man a piece of cake, and then, thinking that's probably not enough food for him to get by with, you take a big dump, smear your poop on the cake and say "Well, it's more now! Be happy!"

You're comparing video games to poop, Isa. Time for bed.

 

[KhaosMuffins]

And thus was the beginning of Skullgirls scat doujins....

 

[Ruin]

It's more like you give a starving man a piece of cake, and then, thinking that's probably not enough food for him to get by with, you take a big dump, smear your poop on the cake and say "Well, it's more now! Be happy!"

Spoiler

(the frosting girl is mike z)

 

[gold163]

I wouldn't mind if Fukua was indefinitely relegated to beta-only status and development put on hold until all the IGG characters were finished. I think it would be a shame to get rid of her entirely, especially since she's playable right now and a lot of players seem to favor her gameplay, but at the same time I can agree with the concerns of the quality of the character overall. She isn't a finished character in the sense that every other current non-beta cast member is; she doesn't belong on the roster yet.

Still, I don't think it's necessarily 100% true that developing Fukua would take resources away from developing other characters. They spared the resources to develop her this far, after all. It definitely would impact them, but character development is split between different tasks such as assets, planning, and coding anyway, and I don't believe these tasks always rely on each other at all times.

I voted 'yes', but it's more of a 'yes... eventually.'

 

[Φ]

I DID have to fight the duo earlier... while it was frustrating I didn't really mind it that much.

 

[WayForger]

Having more characters, even one that was born from a joke, is great. As a dedicated Xbox player I would cry, in happiness, if I got another new character to learn. Sure, Fukua has some balance issues at the moment. But those can be remedied.

 

[RetroStation]

I'm ok with her staying under 1 condition, you can't pick her and Filia on the same team, kind of like Kyo and EX Kyo/Iori in KoFXIII.

1 Filia is annoying enough as it is, I dont wanna kill a Filia just to deal with another one -__-

I'm okay w/ a Filia/Fukua team. Fukua's saving grace with me is that she doesn't seem as ADHD as Filia, and she lacks an airdash... Which I feel, combined with her fireball, changes her gameplan entirely.

 

[CrackedMarbles]

Just for argument's sake- MikeZ, if you're reading this, could you show us a screenshot or talk to us briefly sort of what you did to create her? I'm interested, personally, to see the process you went through, since you said you spent such a short amount of time on her, even though she ended up being really fun.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

I appreciate you approaching this topic level-headedly, instead of with sarcasm, smugness, or rudeness.

But people will buy a pre-cut diamond. Some of the most prestigious Goldsmiths* in the world can get no work done without any materials or catalysts.

*Capitalized because last name, yo.

Let's keep the metaphor train going.

I was talking more about how a pre-cut diamond does not serve any function as an object of fashion. You can't fit an uncut diamond onto a band or chain because it won't fit into the prongs. It needs to have the stone cut away and then needs to be shaped into it's final form. From what I gather Filia is unique because she has a lot of unused frames, some of which went into Fukua. Mike made this characters on a limited budget of time and resources and all I'm asking is that extra time be put into trimming her down and making her into something the community can proudly wear on their finger.

Right now people are taking this uncut diamond Mike dug out of his backyard and sitting it on their study shelf assuring people of how valuable it is. She's young and I wouldn't mind a new character so soon between Squigly and Big Band but she's not up to snuff yet.

 

[gllt]

I'm okay w/ a Filia/Fukua team. Fukua's saving grace with me is that she doesn't seem as ADHD as Filia, and she lacks an airdash... Which I feel, combined with her fireball, changes her gameplan entirely.

Why must you make me like you more when we have a salt match coming up..

But, this. Her neutral is so different and I love it.

 

[Luweewu]

Fukua is a shoutout to palette swap clone characters and their characteristic of being budget remakes of existing characters (insert any "Marvel vs" clone here). She is fine as she is animation-quality-wise and is better than nearly all clones due to the source material.
I don't see her inclusion as some kind of precedent for laziness or corner-cutting on LZ's part. There's no reason to slippery slope down to 20 crap clones with a stance Val and puppet Bella. She fulfills her role and no floodgates were opened.

From playing her today, she's as legit a character as any other. She's not useless, nor is she stupidly OP from what I've seen (yes it's still Day 1). She's had prior playtesting which you could tell from a quick lab session. Could she use more? Probably, but that's the same with any character. Keep her in the main game, experiment with tweaks in Beta.

Put Filia in the trash, take Fukua out of the recycle bin.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I'm okay w/ a Filia/Fukua team. Fukua's saving grace with me is that she doesn't seem as ADHD as Filia, and she lacks an airdash... Which I feel, combined with her fireball, changes her gameplan entirely.

It's still annoying to look at, Takuma and Mr.Karate and NOTHING alike but I understand why they don't let you pick both on the same team.
Should be the same here imo.

 

[CrackedMarbles]

Right now people are taking this uncut diamond Mike dug out of his backyard and sitting it on their study shelf assuring people of how valuable it is. She's young and I wouldn't mind a new character so soon between Squigly and Big Band but she's not up to snuff yet.

Fair enough, though with a touch of imagination and a dash of bliss, an uncut diamond can be a fun or interesting peripheral.

 

[keninblack]

Just give the bitch a hat.

 

[gllt]

Just give the bitch a hat.

10/10

 

[RetroStation]

It's still annoying to look at, Takuma and Mr.Karate and NOTHING alike but I understand why they don't let you pick both on the same team.
Should be the same here imo.

At the same time, you were allowed to pick both Iori/Orichi Iori, Ryu/Evil Ryu, Akuma/Shin Akuma, and Rugal/God Rugal in Capcom vs SNK 2.

 

[Chicken Boo]

Just give the bitch a hat.

This makes the Simpsons clip I posted earlier a lot more relevant.

 

[PaperBag_Sniper]

Fair enough, though with a touch of imagination and a dash of bliss, an uncut diamond can be a fun or interesting peripheral.

I mean we let Flavor Flav get away with wearing a clock and viking hat. You could make a pretty mean necklace/equalizer out of a diamond and a nice thick chain.

 

[Mr. X]

Fuck hats, she needs more lightning!

 

[Light-Triforce]

Just give the bitch a hat.

 

[Number 13]

Robo Fortune was originally a joke from a stream (think it was the va story mode run?) where Kimlinh did the "beep boop meow" bits. It becoming a recurring inside joke for SG community.

Eventually it got big enough noise for a possible alternate voice pack for Ms.Fortune if funding goal being passed happened. Then things went a step further and Lab 0 decided instead to make a separate character robo fortune remixed from Ms.Fortune who would be substantially cheaper to make then a new character due to reused assets. Note that Robo Fortune similar to Fukua started as a joke and Lab 0 sees Fukua as good practice for Robo Fortune.

The point being is that the joke origin obviously wasn't a deterrent for Lab 0 for making another character. The "it will lose the funny if treated serious" argument is invalid because of the upcoming Robo Fortune existence. The only key difference between the two is one "joke" character has funding behind it while the other one was something done in spare time that didn't hinder other SG production.

Edit: fixed with right VA.

 

[Mr. X]

Robo Fortune was originally a joke from a stream (think it was the va story mode run?) where Danielle did the "beep boop meow" bits. It becoming a recurring inside joke for SG community.

Eventually it got big enough noise for a possible alternate voice pack for Ms.Fortune if funding goal being passed happened. Then things went a step further and Lab 0 decided instead to make a separate character robo fortune remixed from Ms.Fortune who would be substantially cheaper to make then a new character due to reused assets. Note that Robo Fortune similar to Fukua started as a joke and Lab 0 sees Fukua as good practice for Robo Fortune.

The point being is that the joke origin obviously wasn't a deterrent for Lab 0 for making another character. The "it will lose the funny if treated serious" argument is invalid because of the upcoming Robo Fortune existence. The only key difference between the two is one "joke" character has funding behind it while the other one was something done in spare time that didn't hinder other SG production.

Kimlihn*

 

[Number 13]

Kimlihn*

Knew I typed an error somewhere good catch x-x

 

[Chicken Boo]

Robo Fortune was originally a joke from a stream (think it was the va story mode run?) where Kimlinh did the "beep boop meow" bits. It becoming a recurring inside joke for SG community.

Eventually it got big enough noise for a possible alternate voice pack for Ms.Fortune if funding goal being passed happened. Then things went a step further and Lab 0 decided instead to make a separate character robo fortune remixed from Ms.Fortune who would be substantially cheaper to make then a new character due to reused assets. Note that Robo Fortune similar to Fukua started as a joke and Lab 0 sees Fukua as good practice for Robo Fortune.

The point being is that the joke origin obviously wasn't a deterrent for Lab 0 for making another character. The "it will lose the funny if treated serious" argument is invalid because of the upcoming Robo Fortune existence. The only key difference between the two is one "joke" character has funding behind it while the other one was something done in spare time that didn't hinder other SG production.

Edit: fixed with right VA.

People are fine with Fukua being a joke character. People like me have problems with others accepting Fukua as she is simply because she's a new character. If the character was polished up, it would be fine, but MikeZ went on to say that the frames would not be improved on. So.....yeah

 

[Banazama]

I'm sure you can explain me in detail how these two have anything to do with what I wrote.

Keeping her in ruins the entire joke in favor of showing Capcom that Decapre is actually hype and a good thing.

Skullgirls releases a clone character -> Everyone (almost) is hype
Capcom releases a clone character -> Everyone should be hype. I mean they did it for Skullgirls.
Ignoring the fact that there a bunch of circumstantial differences between what Lab 0 did and what Capcom did.
Unrelated to the fallacy, having a clone character in Skullgirls doesn't retroactively make Decapre any more hype.

She's the best Joke of all time, and not only would the Joke itself get ruined by making her a real character, you'd also be blatantly stating that a character that was tossed together in 3 days for free is good enough to stand next to the rest of the SG chars. What the shit is L0 even working so hard for, and why did we donate $829829? With that money, they could make 50 Fukuas instead of 5 new characters.

This sentence is simplified as.
"We can't let Fukua in the game because then we are advocating 50 terrible characters than 5 quality ones."

This is simply an emotional appeal using the undesirability of low quality characters, instead of establishing how the inclusion of Fukua is actually advocating lazy design.
It's the same argument such as:
"We should keep religion in schools, otherwise our kids would have no morals."

Because I like one lazily made character, it does not follow that I like lazy design in general.

You talk about move utility, which goes hand-in-hand with character viability (but more importantly in Fukua's case, uniqueness-of-playstyle). You can't gauge that less than a day after a character comes out.

I don't think I ever talked about move utility. The most I did was talk about how her moves looked, not so much how they function. Though if you can point it out to me in the post I'll gladly take it out. I can't seem to find it, and I certainly have no intention of arguing that stance as it's a position I don't hold in the first place.

 

[IsaVulpes]

The only key difference between the two is one "joke" character has funding behind it while the other one was something done in spare time that didn't hinder other SG production.

"The only key difference between the two is one "joke" character will be up to par qualitywise with the rest of the cast while the other one was something scrapped together in 3 days worth of free time." What an irrelevant distinction, really!

 

[Number 13]

People are fine with Fukua being a joke character. People like me have problems with others accepting Fukua as she is simply because she's a new character. If the character was polished up, it would be fine, but MikeZ went on to say that the frames would not be improved on. So.....yeah

That wasn't specifically towards you since you presented a different argument. It was more towards the other people who stated the above argument here.