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Possible new IPS

I know it's easy to say that I like the current experiment because it doesn't force me to change drastically my BnB's, but yes, I like it and it gets combos shortened for sure.

With Squigly, it is still possible to do a lot of s.HP(2x) with stancel and then start an air combo, but the air combo is really shortened because of undizzy. I manage to do in 8K of damage (3vs3) (don't know if the size of the team affects the damage count in training mode)
 
Yes 3v3, 2v3, 1v3 and 1v2 have a higher damage ratio than normal. I think 2v2 and 1v1 are the only ones that represent the 1.00 damage ratio, so those are the numbers I go by.

@RemiKz I know the feeling. In MDE I kind of put everything together with the combo potential that system would allow. In this experiment, what I'm doing is breaking all the things I put together down into separate combos/paths (and then omitting a few normals to make it work for some).
I mentioned the way it shortens my combos (with both of my characters) is that it eliminates one sequence of: combo to launcher-> air combo -> restand/otg combo overall (bringing it down to 2 sequences instead of 3).
So now whatever I did in that sequence is just a part of a new/different combo and I compare the damage/execution difficulty between each combo.
It's roughly a 800-1500 damage loss, but knowing it's probably the same for other characters while I can still pretty much do what I like means I can tolerate it.
 
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I really like combos as they are now. I really don't think another addition to IPS is necessary, doing ~10k in the corner is perfect for me.

What do you guys think the damage for optimized combos should be?
 
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Enough to make the opponent contemplate tagging out as soon as possible...
 
CaioLugon said:
I really like combos as they are now. I really don't think another addition to IPS is necessary, doing ~10k in the corner is perfect for me.

What do you guys think the damage for optimized combos should be?

TBH damage isn't a huge deal breaker for me. I just want the combos to be shorter so that the pace of the game increases.

As long as you aren't one-touch-killing I'm ok with it.
 
PJBottoms said:
Back to the topic at hand though guys, which is the skullgirls IPS. :) Let's not derail this into a "this game's combo length vs that game's combo length" thread. Sorry if I started the tangent, lol.

I guess my main point was if the new IPS is making the combos shorter, I'm all for it.
Aw, I didn't get to say my bit.

I think everyone will hate me for saying this, but I think the best combo length for mid-screen, resourceless, non-counterhit,
light starter combos would be at most 5 seconds.
I'd love to have crazy long 15 or 20 second combos- if you got something like a counter hit in a corner with a good starter and a combo-heavy character and meter. Imagine Litchi from blazblue fatal countering some-one in a corner and going for 13 Orphans; she deserves it!
But, a light punch right out the gate? Get's pretty boring. And that's not saying anything about learning the combos which many people do not enjoy. I like playing against opponents, not dummies. Training mode is only fun when I'm trying something new or improving my skills overall. Not spending hours burning pointlessly long combos into my hands. It's why I don't really play this game much....
 
I'm using the same combos I've always been using, the only thing is I now have no reason to learn any new ones since I was already using shorter combos. I'm still neutral on the change overall. Well, now I'm slightly more leaning towards negative on the change. It feels kinda like the game is becoming something it's not. It's like people want this game to be Blazblue with assists.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Blazblue combos are short now?
They're pretty short in my eyes. Compared to some of the other games of a similar type. At the very least my BnBs with Bang took 4-9 seconds.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Blazblue combos are short now?
Many if not most, are, yes.

Bb "combos" suffer the off axis/non perfect spacing starter syndrome where they can only be confirmed into very small combos from many spacings, but can go huge with optimal spacing and starter.

@Narroo


I'm paraphrasing here, but in your last post you say that learning longish combos is something that some people, yourself included I would think, don't like doing, yet, you think its fine to learn long combos off obscure starters that only start in the corner...

That to me is kinda like putting the horse before the cart. Because what you are basically saying is that we will still have to learn longish combos, but now those combos are less relevent... Meaning that not only do we still have to learn longish combos... We now have to learn largely irrelevant combos as far as their current utility is concerned.


Which makes little sense to me, cause I know that I for one would hate learning combos under that system. It would feel like a waste of time.
 
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destruction_adv said:
I'm using the same combos I've always been using, the only thing is I now have no reason to learn any new ones since I was already using shorter combos. I'm still neutral on the change overall. Well, now I'm slightly more leaning towards negative on the change. It feels kinda like the game is becoming something it's not. It's like people want this game to be Blazblue with assists.

I don't think shorter combos is turning SG into something it isn't.

It doesn't change the neutral game or the assists or the characters or anything else about the game. You know, all the important stuff has stayed the same.
 
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Jason said:
I don't think shorter combos is turning SG into something it isn't.

It doesn't change the neutral game or the assists or the characters or anything else about the game. You know, all the important stuff has stayed the same.
I'd argue that it's very very subjective as to what the "important stuff" is. I agree with the stuff you listed as important being important, but I also believe that combos are extremely important. They mean a lot to me at least.
 
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Jason said:
I don't think shorter combos is turning SG into something it isn't.

It doesn't change the neutral game or the assists or the characters or anything else about the game. You know, all the important stuff has stayed the same.
People do want the neutral to be different, that's why assist scaling was put in to change the neutral to be less assist based. Not only that, but combos are a part of how a game feels changing it makes a game feel different no matter what and the experience matters more than the mechanics in my eyes when I compare games.
 
destruction_adv said:
but combos are a part of how a game feels changing it makes a game feel different no matter what and the experience matters more than the mechanics in my eyes when I compare games.

I suppose you're right but IMO shorter combos does wonders for increasing the pace of the game. Those last couple of chains of your restand combo take quite a while but don't do much damage or get you much meter, they don't serve much purpose other then slowing the game down but maybe that's just my opinion.

And IMO, this doesn't reduce combo creativity all that much. You can still do all the weird links and restands you used to do, you just don't get to put all of them into the same combo.
 
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If it wasn't changing it into something it isn't, why change it at all? Combos are important to some people too.

Not liking 230 undizzy with this tracking, it just makes things stricter in a non-meaningful way. Basically getting to the same goal, but now some normal(s) that were good for positioning during the combo now have to be omitted and just makes an awkward link for a couple of my combo paths and lightweights are more of a pain in the ass to try to juggle.
I don't want people suddenly popping out online because of things like that. I still prefer MDE undizzy (perfect for me, but not for some others I guess), but I don't think restrictions should be lower than 250 if it's going to start tacking on as early as combo stage 3.
 
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I think one of the things people either forget or simply gloss over is that sg's neutral is ... For lack of a better word... Bland. sg's neutral consists almost entirely of hitconfirms. That means that the neutral HAS TO BE turtly... If not, it's simply rush to be hit and first hit equals combo reset combo etc etc.... Making combos shorter and/or deal less damage just means (to me) that the game will be more turtly than it already is when 2 pillar and/or updo users play against each other.

The problem like I've said before is the lack of good high priority "relatively" safe pokes that don't hitconfirm into stuff. I mean we've got parasouls f+hp( which confirms into sniper and sniper confirms into full combo) and Bella's and doubles titan knuckle... But those are all slow startup, low damage, high recovery moves... So they kinda fail the poke test.


This is one of the primary reasons why I don't want shorter combos in sg... More neutral turtling behind AA assists and less actual game. "Neutral" will turn out to be more movement based than button based..., and personally I like button based neutral much more.
 
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Amen to the above two posters. Please just keep the game as MDE, but add the new characters...at the very most just add in the assist scaling stuff.
 
Dime_x said:
This is one of the primary reasons why I don't want shorter combos in sg... More neutral turtling behind AA assists and less actual game. "Neutral" will turn out to be more movement based than button based..., and personally I like button based neutral much more.

I don't think this needs to necessarily be the case. Assist turtling can be disincentivized. You can scale down damage. You can make it impossible to confirm off an assist. You can do dozens of things to stop the turtling (not all of them great ideas). And hell, I'm not really sure it can get much worse to be honest. At all levels, the goal seems to be to hide behind your assist until she counters and then confirm into gross damage (which is why I absolutely hate the idea that you get more damage off of an assist ch... since that is the problem to begin with. Fuck, I'd prefer 100% assist damage and 50% damage reduction on assist CH to the current system).

Your argument boils down to shorter combos means more turtling, and turtling is bad so maintain the status quo... which is mostly turtling... There is no real solution provided but rather an almost defeatist belief that single-player, long-combo style is better so we don't have to deal with the insufferable assist turtling.
 
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250 does seem a bit more flexible but I like the overall combo length.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Blazblue combos are short now?
The combos in most Japanese arcade matches last around 10-15 seconds. Same for the ones in Combo videos. I only just recently got BBCP, so I can't say anything about Overdrive (Blazblue version of X-Factor) combos.
 
Sup guys I heard you want to play a game with short combos and more neutral game

I have just the game for youuuuuuuu

SSBB_Cover.jpg
 
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DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
I'd rather play Smash Bros than Guitar Hero
Well, now I understand why you don't play Marvel 3, but I'm sorry to tell you that no matter what you believe combos in this game are NOT long enough to consider it "single player." There will always be breaks, even if it's for resets. And if you have a problem with resets/don't consider them neutral or whatever then you'll probably also hate any ips changes for shorter combos. Nothing would change when it comes to neutral game, it'd just make there be a few more resets at high level play(don't even try to say anyone at low intermediate or below would start using resets since combos are weaker, it doesn't work like that.)
 
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Not gonna lie, the part of my brain/memory I use for okizeme in other games has been rerouted to reset watch when playing Skullgirls.

Two combos killing a character is legit. There are few games I can think of where this isn't the norm for the majority of the cast; namely Third Strike and Guilty Gear, and even then the top tier in those games had damage that was pretty close to two-combos=dead.
 
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dekillsage said:
Sup guys I heard you want to play a game with short combos and more neutral game

I have just the game for youuuuuuuu

SSBB_Cover.jpg
Why stop there? Post your "witty" image to people who prefer UNIB EXE Late over the Vanilla UNIB or maybe BBCP players just because the new game now has shorter combos! Or to anyone who doesn't wanna play a fighting game that's like UMvC3 or the Fist of the North Star game with Basketball combos?
 
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It's a little late, but I can get 10.8k on the 230 undizzy thing with solo bella and two meters.

I still don't like the extra Undizzy. It still feels like it unnecessarily restricts combos. With 230 Undizzy (or whatever considerably lower stun limit it is), it really feels super unnecessary to have buttons you can't use.
 
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Resets are a completely separate thing from neutral, and liking resets doesn't mean you like neutral or vice/versa. There is no reason to equate them at all. If you love neutral you should find theoretical resets like hard knockdown vortex 50/50s just as obnoxious as combos.

The interesting thing about resets in a game like SG is the first couple of times you see reactable ones like some slow crossunder. A-ha, I beat your dumb reset! But if it's two good players that have seen each other's scrubby trick stuff and are down to real 50/50s with optimized risk/reward it's gonna be like SF4 Seth or Akuma.
 
Zidiane said:
It's a little late, but I can get 10.8k on the 230 undizzy thing with solo bella and two meters.

I still don't like the extra Undizzy. It still feels like it unnecessarily restricts combos. With 230 Undizzy (or whatever considerably lower stun limit it is), it really feels super unnecessary to have buttons you can't use.

I thought that the extra-dizzy was removed when Mike started experimenting with lowering the undizzy limit.

hlvn said:
Not gonna lie, the part of my brain/memory I use for okizeme in other games has been rerouted to reset watch when playing Skullgirls.

Two combos killing a character is legit. There are few games I can think of where this isn't the norm for the majority of the cast; namely Third Strike and Guilty Gear, and even then the top tier in those games had damage that was pretty close to two-combos=dead.

Then increase the damage of the combos by changing the damage scaling or just an overall damage buff. You don't need long combos to do a lot of damage. Just look at Super Turbo.
 
hlvn said:
Two combos killing a character is legit. There are few games I can think of where this isn't the norm for the majority of the cast; namely Third Strike and Guilty Gear, and even then the top tier in those games had damage that was pretty close to two-combos=dead.
Woah woah woah, hold up a sec. Maybe this is just because of what I've seen of them (mostly just EVO grand finals), but Blazblue, KoF, UNiB, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart 3, P4A and even stuff like Injustice all have more than 2 combos per life bar. That's most of the EVO 2013 lineup plus more that don't conform to this image, and to top it off they don't have enormous reset focus in those games.
 
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Jason said:
I thought that the extra-dizzy was removed when Mike started experimenting with lowering the undizzy limit.
Was it? It seemed like some of the stuff I was trying had increased undizzy (using it again).

Also, if this is true, I'm done thinking about and trying new changes. Too many changes too quickly, I'm not on often enough to keep up with anything.
 
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DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
Woah woah woah, hold up a sec. Maybe this is just because of what I've seen of them (mostly just EVO grand finals), but Blazblue, KoF, UNiB, Melty Blood, Arcana Heart 3, P4A and even stuff like Injustice all have more than 2 combos per life bar. That's most of the EVO 2013 lineup plus more that don't conform to this image, and to top it off they don't have enormous reset focus in those games.

Two combos (or less) will kill a character in:

Every competitive iteration of Tekken.
Every competitive iteration of Virtua fighter.
Every competitive iteration of Marvel.
Every competitive iteration of CvS.
SF2T (I'm less than familiar with vanilla and other iterations, but I'd assume it's still pretty harsh)

And that's not including games with ring-out mechanics where carries kill for certain, like Soul Calibur and Smash.
 
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Zidiane said:
Was it? It seemed like some of the stuff I was trying had increased undizzy (using it again).

Also, if this is true, I'm done thinking about and trying new changes. Too many changes too quickly, I'm not on often enough to keep up with anything.
You could always just try reading the patchnotes..
 
hlvn said:
Two combos (or less) will kill a character in:

Every competitive iteration of Tekken.
Every competitive iteration of Virtua fighter.
Every competitive iteration of Marvel.
Every competitive iteration of CvS.
SF2T (I'm less than familiar with vanilla and other iterations, but I'd assume it's still pretty harsh)

And that's not including games with ring-out mechanics where carries kill for certain, like Soul Calibur and Smash.

Yes, a well optimized combo in most FG does huge damage... but not many games confirm like SG confirms.

I watch KoF, Tekken, GG, SC, MK, and Injustice (monday, whoo!!!) and the time spent in neutral ie out of combo is significant relative to SG.
 
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