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Possible new IPS

As a person trying to get better, I don't understand why everyone is flipping so hard about the idea of new IPS: If you've come this far, how difficult is it to just change your combos anyways? You've already got them down to a science and understand why they work do you not? How does trying this beta suddenly spell death for you?

I do understand that it is different, but I do not understand why this thread sounds like we've gotten Ridge Racer Unbounded after we just got done playing Ridge Racer 4?
 
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Midiman said:
As a person trying to get better, I don't understand why everyone is flipping so hard about the idea of new IPS: If you've come this far, how difficult is it to just change your combos anyways? You've already got them down to a science and understand why they work do you not? How does trying this beta suddenly spell death for you?

I do understand that it is different, but I do not understand why this thread sounds like we've gotten Ridge Racer Unbounded after we just got done playing Ridge Racer 4?

I doubt I speak for anyone else, but learning a new combo extremely hard with my terrible execution. I remember I had to practice for over a weak when SG first came out to do the combo I did then. The only reason I could pick up the one I do now is because it's nearly identical to the old one, just with a new ender based on a corner combo I spent another week practicing.

That being said, thankfully, my Valentine BnB still works since I only used the pulsr combo offline, and even then only rarely..
 
Vulpes hit the nail on the head with the last post. All the resources are there, links are usually very lenient when they exist, so any noob can go into training room and in no time at all learn how to execute a high damage combo. Land stray hit, payoff. Learning the other aspects of the game, like spacing, properly using assists, are the things that take more time for most.

For the record I love this game and think it is the best and most innovative of this generation. There is so much creativity in the design of the characters and their tools. Won't this new IPS encourage creativity further? Won't it mean less braindead loops? These...are bad things?
 
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blufang said:
These...are bad things?

I don't think you can say these things are bad. It's not like people not learning things is a direct consequence of looping combos. It's more like...well that's just what people do usually.
 
Fans should be thrilled that Mike Z and his dev team is constantly striving to make this game better and better. Profits is necessary but unlike other fighting game companies it seems they are most focused on making SG the best fighting game possible. Instead many are throwing fits about something that they haven't tried out yet, is going through a lengthy testing phase, and will not make it to the game unless it is a large improvement.

I only started playing with the steam release, but overall it seems fans are thrilled by the various balance patches that have already come out. So...a little faith before jumping down the devs throat?
 
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From the ShinAT tweet about getting 9.4k with a bar with Valentine it sounds like the anti-loop IPS ruleset will just be new optimized and corner carry combos and random rebalancing based on how character movesets happen to fit into the new system.

I also don't see how more resets (which anti-loop IPS is not about anyway, this is not at Mike) are supposed to kill all the shameful training mode chimps with bad neutral. Learning a quasicombo where you branch into different resets is like hard knockdown oki; it's more training mode and more scripted inputs, not less. If you want more neutral make it so all the damage of a combo only comes off if you end with a blue knockdown or something
 
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obregon said:
From the ShinAT tweet about getting 9.4k with a bar with Valentine it sounds like the anti-loop IPS ruleset will just be new optimized and corner carry combos and random rebalancing based on how character movesets happen to fit into the new system.
Alternatively, it sounds like tracking only enders isn't sufficient and we should throw strict undizzy (or starter tracking) on top.
I just linked it to bulldoze over that laughable "Val is dead" statement.
 
I like the idea of more resets and more okizeme (and thus, however indirectly, fundamentals like spacing and defense) being required to kill someone, both as a player and as a spectator.

Skullgirls is probably the first fighting game I've ever played where people exhonerate combos/damage above all else when evaluating a player; you never hear anyone glorify someone's movement, defense, or other abilities. You just hear "oh yeah, his [character]s' combos will pee in your butt" and that's the end of it.

All of that said, I doubt this will have any tremendous impact on things. The game is still a fast team-based airdasher.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Alternatively, it sounds like tracking only enders isn't sufficient and we should throw strict undizzy (or starter tracking) on top.
I just linked it to bulldoze over that laughable "Val is dead" statement.
I would prefer starter tracking to undizzy TBH.
 
I really don't see how utilizing shorter combos will be a bad thing. I just don't see anything negative in this. I really want to see how this will come to play and hope it can be done well.
 
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Mike said directly the change is not for any other reason but to kill more loops. All the reset, lower damage, shorter combo, and oki talk is a non-sequitur. Mr. Peck posted starter-and-ender tracked midscreen day 0 combos that aren't off bullshit jump-in starters or anything for a few characters that still do about the damage it would take to be a 2v2 two-touch game. It seems like a lot of systemic bother and character balance randomization to kill a few (obnoxious) loops.
 
Nuuance said:
I can't help but think....how random this is...wait...please don't tell me it's not cuz of that fight w/you and wingzero....>_>

DON'T YOU DARE. I've been talking to specific people about this as an idea for months. Just not people in general because...well, look at this thread.

(Also, Nekrosurge and WingZero, I'm incredibly disappointed in the both of you.)
 
The Chicken Littling in this thread is painful. This is a beta. Betas exist to bugsplat and test changes to better the game. Everyone needs to stop throwing a shit fit over changes they haven't played around with yet
 
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Nuuance said:
I dont like this at all....removing undizzy i think is fine, but honestly...enders? Really. Hell...valentine would fall apart simply put. I mean people complaining about long combos? Really...REALLY? You've seen marvel & Blazblue right? I'm sorry if i sound ignorant or otherwise, I sincerely apologize, but gimme a break.

And just when people are getting into the game making combos, etc...everything will have to change....AGAIN. who knows, maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but I think it's ridiculous. Long combos...right.
IsaVulpes said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/391872951932301312
I'm just going to leave this here


I have seen Marvel, yes.
Storm vs Storm, 100% life gone in 4 touches, 3 of which don't go beyond 5 hits.

In SG terms, 4 touches = ~3.5k in 1v1, or ~4k in 3v3, that's ABCLaunch>Airstring.


Actually there is an easy button, it's learning an 8k damage combo in 30 minutes training mode and killing characters of people far better than you with random stray hits into combo reset death.


Maybe you should stop assuming.


This is plain hilarious


http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/possible-new-ips.716/page-2#post-19924 GOOD TO KNOW

EDIT: I was under the impression this was a change to just be implemented and forgot about the beta since I haven't touched it since rollout. For some reason I either 1) kicked into snap judgement mode (probably) 2) Didn't see the beta part...actually I'm gonna have to read the OP again completely twice over.

points well taken...ok ill say this then, I recant my previous statements and say this: Lets goto beta...see what it is then make decisions instead of snap judgements. Or rather I will. I think the underlying reason why I got irritated was because of the change being a bit random & just essentially tossing out a lot of the work people have put into combos. But moreso because I believe that the choice was due to the complaining of people being upset over "long combos" and nothing else because thats what a lot of people say who are getting into the game initially.

Yes. Change is inevitable, and as a general rule of thumb, people hate change so much. Facebook and apple constantly remind us that...but what happens? People get over it. Some change you won't know how to take until you take it and I've still yet to see, but it's a little disconcerting when you have a Buuunnnncccchhhhhhh of material put together...then majority of it most likely goes moot :(

Anyways I'm gonna keep reading replies and update this answer in a bit.

P.S. Vulpes, I was talking about UMvC3 combos evo style, but again thats watching so take it how you will :P
 
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Mike_Z said:
DON'T YOU DARE. I've been talking to specific people about this as an idea for months. Just not people in general because...well, look at this thread.

(Also, Nekrosurge and WingZero, I'm incredibly disappointed in the both of you.)
What did we do? What didn't we do?
 
Mike_Z said:
DON'T YOU DARE. I've been talking to specific people about this as an idea for months. Just not people in general because...well, look at this thread.

(Also, Nekrosurge and WingZero, I'm incredibly disappointed in the both of you.)
Sorry Mike, lol it was a bad joke, but I was trying to be funny...I'm still trying to decide if that was funny or not. But anyways like I said in my previous post you're still cool beans & I'm open to see whatever you got brewing. Usually I'm good at knee-jerk stuff (guild wars 2 had a LOT of those kind of things), but like I also said earlier, change can be an...odd thing at times.

--- --- --- ---
CONCLUSION
--- --- --- ---
BrandX+ said:
We'll just need to test it to get a real opinion on it. I think people are just overreacting too early.
yeah you're right. I let my logical side get away on that one.

K Mike "Supa-dupa-hot-fire-I'm-not-a-programmer" Z, I'm willing to test out the new system and beta and I'll set aside my thoughts from before. I didn't wanna say it, but even if I don't like it initially...if it helps the Skullgirls community and majority of people like it, then I'll learn to like it too. I understand change is sometimes a curtain that has to be unveiled. So it's cool beans. Cool beans everyone?

P.S. Does this mean I should hold off on the 3 combo videos I've been making...?
 
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Hi, i don't know if im getting this right.

you wont be able to finish a chain with an ender you previously use?

also if that is true, can we use the first ender a second time? just like when you start you first chain, you are able to use the first button you pressed a second time in a new chain.
 
ninja-nutria said:
Hi, i don't know if im getting this right.

you wont be able to finish a chain with an ender you previously use?

also if that is true, can we use the first ender a second time? just like when you start you first chain, you are able to use the first button you pressed a second time in a new chain.


question answerd, im ok with the new ips, i still would like to test it though.
 
Mike_Z said:
Rationale: ...
Every iteration of the IPS has been aimed at reducing repetition and increasing variety in combos...

...The goal of this experiment is to see whether this changes combos to be less loop-related.

I played around in training mode with these new rules in mind. My opinion is that tracking *enders* is an insufficient method of reducing combo 'loopiness'.

Examples:

Bella can still do runstop loops:

lp-lp mk runstop
lp-lp mk hk runstop
lp-lp mk hp runstop

and can then continue on with specials as enders such as kanchou, pummel horse, super etc.

Bella gains new loops such as j.lp mash loops:

launch
j.lp mash
launch
j.lp mash j.lk
secondary launch
j.lp mash j.hp
kanchou
j.lp mash d+mp dynamo

These are not optimal in the slightest, but should demonstrate that looping combos would still be an option in the proposed system.

Note: I'm still looking forward to playing around with an experimental build, and certainly appreciate this approach to new ideas compared to closed testing and just putting it out. However, so far I think the proposed new system would not provide enough benefit in terms of reduced loopiness to make up for people having to relearn the system.
 
@Age
S'why I said "both are probably necessary", as in, using SPI (really?) as a replacement for undizzy.

Thing is, I like the fact that undizzy doesn't allow you to do two big combos in a row. A lot. Enough that that fact alone makes me happy with it as a system, inelegant though it may be.

Annnnnnd I'm kinda done with this thread. It'll be in the beta at some point or it won't. I've certainly learned my lesson and will keep any experiments or mentions of them to a small group of people in the future. Capcom policy, forward!
 
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I actually don't mind the change. *shrugs*

I can see certain characters actually being buffed by this. ie characters with two different launchers. Oh the combos that come to my mind already... :)

<3 mike with his genius concepts
 
Mike_Z said:
@Age
S'why I said "both are probably necessary", as in, using SPI (really?) as a replacement for undizzy.

Thing is, I like the fact that undizzy doesn't allow you to do two big combos in a row. A lot. Enough that that fact alone makes me happy with it as a system, inelegant though it may be.

Annnnnnd I'm kinda done with this thread. It'll be in the beta at some point or it won't. I've certainly learned my lesson and will keep any experiments or mentions of them to a small group of people in the future. Capcom policy, forward!
Gosh darn it people, I was really liking this whole hearing about the developer's ideas about changing the game.
The fact that Mike feels burned for sharing this makes me kind of irked =\
 
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MagicManCooker said:
Gosh darn it people, I was really liking this whole hearing about the developer's ideas about changing the game.
The fact that Mike feels burned for sharing this makes me kind of irked =\
apparently when it comes to the 'fans', developer decisions and accessibility for new players are a bad thing.
 
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Mike_Z said:
@Age
S'why I said "both are probably necessary", as in, using SPI (really?) as a replacement for undizzy.

Thing is, I like the fact that undizzy doesn't allow you to do two big combos in a row. A lot. Enough that that fact alone makes me happy with it as a system, inelegant though it may be.

Annnnnnd I'm kinda done with this thread. It'll be in the beta at some point or it won't. I've certainly learned my lesson and will keep any experiments or mentions of them to a small group of people in the future. Capcom policy, forward!

It should go in the beta just so people see if they like it better. Whether it's bad or not. If you said you've thought about it for months, you should toss it in regardless. Even if I still wasn't feeling the change, I'd have said that still. Beta is beta, so might as well use it.

MagicManCooker said:
Gosh darn it people, I was really liking this whole hearing about the developer's ideas about changing the game.
The fact that Mike feels burned for sharing this makes me kind of irked =\

And at the risk of looking like a back peddler, sorry man, but I'm not trying to ruin possible future idea threads because you/Mike didn't like the outcry in general or my initial QQ'age. Like sincerely. I like the intimacy of the dev/grammer/player makeup...so if there's one thing I'd definitely ask not to change if possible, it'd be that. So consider that the last "outburst" from me...that's why I don't theorycraft...it's all theory until you try it. I'm sorry I forgot that people :(

FORGIVE ME OR ILL COMMIT SEPPUKU!!!!!!
 
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Mike_Z said:
Annnnnnd I'm kinda done with this thread. It'll be in the beta at some point or it won't. I've certainly learned my lesson and will keep any experiments or mentions of them to a small group of people in the future. Capcom policy, forward!

I really hope this isn't the case. I like this open-development thing that you have going on, and from what I've seen plenty of others do too.
 
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dekillsage said:
cr.mk into j.lp? I don't think I've ever seen that before.

Oh I think I read this out of context
 
This isn't the first time that Mike/LZ has been burned because of their open development policy. I can think of at least a couple other instances where the unpleaseable fanbase reared their ugly heads and caused an unwarranted shitstorm. (Undizzy and the pre-alpha "color-gate" being the two most obvious to me) I completely don't blame Mike for being tired of dealing with this sort of behavior. It's rather pathetic.
 
Yvive said:
This isn't the first time that Mike/LZ has been burned because of their open development policy. I can think of at least a couple other instances where the unpleaseable fanbase reared their ugly heads and caused an unwarranted shitstorm. (Undizzy and the pre-alpha "color-gate" being the two most obvious to me) I completely don't blame Mike for being tired of dealing with this sort of behavior. It's rather pathetic.
I can entirely agree to this statement. why is it the worst part of a fanbase has to also be the loudest?
 
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Well, my beta just updated (and if yours hasn't already then it's coming) so we'll see if the rumours are true... :o
 
Hyperaxe1 said:
Well, my beta just updated (and if yours hasn't already then it's coming) so we'll see if the rumours are true... :o
He's fixing issues with the Lobbies right now. IPS changes won't be for a fair while.
 
Hey man want to play skullgirls? Oh before we play I know you're still on console so you haven't been able to play the patch, but in addition to the changes I told you about before here's some more. Yeah none of that works anymore. Umm yeah no that doesn't work either. Yeah we probably shouldn't play this right now.

^ Me with my friend who wont play this game because of this happening like 3 times.
 
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Sanoblaze said:
I can entirely agree to this statement. why is it the worst part of a fanbase has to also be the loudest?

Same reason fear tactics are so successful in politics, overexaggerating how everything will be ruined, throwing tantrums draws more attention and dissuades more people than sound reason. Simple as that. Maybe I'm old, I don't know what is with fanbases nowadays. It used to be people were thrilled and supe rexcited about changes, now it is paranoid fear, and often automatical dismissal of new ideas or even mocking new concepts/ideas as ineffective or horrid before they are even implemented. Honestly it is nauseating to witness.

Also excuse me if I don't pity if some combos change, or a player has to learn new things. What is good for the game (as in making the best version possible) is way more important than something so trivial.

Don't listen to the naysayers, MikeZ, no matter what the new ideas you have are there are always going to be loud angry individuals trying to shoot it down. Just implement them in beta, and let people test it out, that's what betas are for.
 
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