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Robo Fortune Discussion

Hi,

I'm aware Parasoul has an entirely vulnerable hitbox behind the M Egret, but is this an intended scenario?

2015-07-16_00001.jpg
 
It's because "beams" are one giant hitbox? rather than a stream of projectiles
 
Yomabudd_y said:
This character sucks, pack it up, blaze it up, 420, swag, new your special, val+excella is the new meta, other memes etc

I hope more people look into confirming off of j.HP as it's a great poke to stop ground advanced and IMO a pretty big part of her zoning game. Most lockdown assists should be able to do this, these are just some examples.

I feel that @noaa's gameplan has revolved around that for a while, that normal is GODLIKE

You can see him convert with L bomber assist a lot in his matches here (56:31, 1:29:22, 1:47:00 and 2:22:05):

 
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Mike_Z said:
The game is complete.
game
complete
nothing else changing
it's too bad you didn't remind me about this weeks ago, innit, maybe for lobby patch if you remind me again later... :^(

And lowering the RECOVERY on j.HP wouldn't do anything to help you comboing off it with a jump cancel. Raising the hitstun would. :^)
Mike_Z said:
Fixed this, will be in the next patch.
Also improved the responsiveness of jump cancels on j.HP! Previously you had to delay at least 3f after it hit before inputting the jump, now you can input it the same frame it makes contact.

Hahaha. Software development is never complete.

Also, great job on finishing the game!
 
Narroo said:
Hahaha. Software development is never complete.
We had to make another patch because of things like the Art Gallery crashing on PS3. If that weren't the case, nothing would have changed. Don't be smug. :^)
 
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Drill drill drill drill drill
drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill drill

Serious part: Other people should find ways to get Robo-Fortune in without meter!
 
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Has anyone found any assists for Robo-Fortune? So far I like Fukua H drill and Eliza H osiris spiral. Also anybody found out what normals are best for anti-airing?
 
I'm having a hard time playing her without resorting to always putting big band on there for Beat extend. Since she lacks an actual DP of her own, it's pretty nice to have. On-top of that, it lets her convert off a ground throw anywhere on screen without using an otg.
 
Beat Extend allows combos off of beams in neutral, which is pretty good IMO.

Also c.LP and j.LK are pretty much your main anti airs, with jump back HP for specific scenarios, and s.MP against IAD.
 
RemiKz said:
I'm having a hard time playing her without resorting to always putting big band on there for Beat extend. Since she lacks an actual DP of her own, it's pretty nice to have. On-top of that, it lets her convert off a ground throw anywhere on screen without using an otg.
Worth noting, Beat Extend after throw is character specific. I know it doesn't work on Valentine, I think there was another character it didn't work on (Peacock? I don't remember)
 
mcpeanuts said:
Worth noting, Beat Extend after throw is character specific. I know it doesn't work on Valentine, I think there was another character it didn't work on (Peacock? I don't remember)
but but but it does

 
Yomabuddy said:
but but but it does
Huh. Maybe the timing is just tighter on those two. Does look like you missed it a bunch of times before getting it.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Huh. Maybe the timing is just tighter on those two. Does look like you missed it a bunch of times before getting it.
That's because I'm half asleep and generally bad at that combo.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Huh. Maybe the timing is just tighter on those two. Does look like you missed it a bunch of times before getting it.
I get it on Peacock pretty consistently. I actually rarely play against a Valentine to be sure of how hard it is on her but I know I've done it before.
 
Yomabuddy said:
Also c.LP and j.LK are pretty much your main anti airs, with jump back HP for specific scenarios, and s.MP against IAD.

Her best air to airs seem to all be superjump variants:

Air to airing against people that aren't superjumping is mostly about controlling that 3rd square up on the training mode grid. Unfortunately most of robos air to airs don't hit theere or they do but they lack range or speed making them incomplete air to airs.

However if you use superjump variants of these moves then your air to air ability skyrockets:

Sj j.mk. The perfect air to air and her best overall air to air. Shitty when done from a regular jump. Shitty when done from a superjump to catch a superjump. It's basically an anti regular jump move.

Sj j.lp very good close range air to air. Just delay the j.lp a bit so you get a higher hitting hitbox for max air priority

Sj j.hp really good anti regular jump move. Slow to come out but has decent range. Used somewhat like doubles and peacocks jhk. To control space on wiff or at max range.


All,in all I think robo is all about superjumping in general. Sonic fox seems to do around 80% superjumps as opposed to regular jumps. Robo just gains a lot of control from super jumps in general. Her air L laser controls more space from superjump and robo can go offensive from superjump 3jhk from much further away than a regular jump.

Super jumping prodigiously may be one of the missing ingredients from robo players games that aren't yet used to her style of zoning.
 
Dime_x said:
Super jumping prodigiously may be one of the missing ingredients from robo players games that aren't yet used to her style of zoning.
I think it's a bit safer to just hit a j.mk and jump (-> whatever) then superjumping when you are close to the target (this do depands on who your target at air is). But Superjumping forward when you are medium-far away from a projectspamming target seem to be a good use of it, especially if you succesfully hit them with your j.hp or j.:QCF::LP:

However this is only with my experiance with my brother after 10 games with robo fortune (one of the few times my brother acctually play this game with me, which are also one of the only few times I can play against a human (For ever alone))
 
People who use mine assist, can you please help me understand why mine assist is more useful than H Beam assist to you, and in what situations were you like, "Boy I'm glad I had mine assist to help with this!"
 
Becous if your opponent is where your mine is, they get hurt. And if they don't wanna get hurt, they must avoid it. And if they try to avoid it, you can do stuffs to them. Like, use anti-air attacks.
 
Well, I don't use mine assist, but I once fought someone who did, and he had Valentine on point, R Fortune and someone else. He was using the mine every time he had me in the corner, and that made harder to get out of corner or reversal.
 
So is the reason why raw Mine advances the combo stage straight to 3 is because it considers both hits as "c.HK" since it was spawned by it?
 
It's because it launches them, and Stage 3 is your first combo vs air. Fukua L Shadow does the same.
 
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Can't believe I was overthinking it so much, as always, thank you Mike
 
Ooooooooh

so if you combo the opponent in such a way where the Mine hits the opponent on the way down but doesn't blow up launching them into the air it prevents the stages from going up to 3.

oh and I forgot that the Mine's hitbox going down does a restand on the opponent... that's super good actually.
 
Going into a ground string after the first hit of mine, but before the explosion, keeps the opponent in stage 2 at least, so it's not a big deal.

But it's neat that Robo can dash so fast that she can push the opponent away from the explosion even though you hit them with Mine. Makes for a neat-o grab attempt. Especially if the Mine didn't blow up, and you go for back grab and use the explosion to help you otg them.
 
well i was going to say that back when i was making some silly mine loop video i found that if you position the mine placement ever so slightly out of the corner where it can still hit the opponent with the first hit of the mine but they are just out side of the explosive trigger range of the mine it locks the opponent in the corner for a good second.

If they jump forward the mine will trigger due to proximity so they are forced into a 50/50 of either a micro dash grab or a cr.lk poke into a cr.mk confirm. and if they block it you can just do mk danger to suck them into the mine's trigger range making you slightly safer if you time it where the second to last hit drags the opponent into the range.

if you want to be ballsy and you have a second head you can do a raw head ram and have it smack into the opponent if they want to jump in an attempt to punish you. Again if they block it you can do a j.lp, j.mk for some quick pressure.
 
This patch made me want to play SG again :^)

Impressions from playing training mode in five minutes let's go! I'll only mention changes that I feel are significant, so random chip damage buffs, while cool, don't have a ton to them to discuss imo.
  • s.HP startup 19f->16f, hitstun +3f to ensure there are no dead frames when comboing to new Headrone Impact on standing opponents within a reasonable distance. Blockstun unchanged. (me)
I know Robo isn't meant to have a useful reversal but this was too bad for a bad reversal. You still can't use it realistically on wakeup but it works to disrespect some stuff you couldn't before.
  • Remove vulnerable box on c.WP’s ears during the active frames to make it a better antiair.
  • This helps her deal with Fukua footdive and BB falling j.LK much better now. Much appreciated!
    [*]c.MK knocks opponent slightly toward Robo on hit, now combos into c.HP from max range on everyone, instead of having the c.HP whiff. (Stuff)
    Couldn't confirm off max range c.MK before without assist, now useful in the solo vs BB matchup.
    [*]Increase the visual "tell" on s.HK by retiming the beginning. Frame data unchanged, but it now reaches unique frames sooner. (Liam)
    Hopefully people will block this now :^).
    [*]Decrease damage on all normals to lower her combo damage a decent amount. Her zoning is getting a huge boost, reducing her actually-pretty-high damage to low-average is basically required.
    Damage nerf is huge. My bnb that did 7.7k now does 6.3k. I think it's slightly too much (would like it to do about 6.5k-ish instead) but zoning characters shouldn't hit like trucks *stares at peacock* so it's ok
    [*]Increase the size of the vulnerable boxes, and slightly decrease the size of the hitbox, on j.HK to make it easier to contest. (Liam)
    I never thought it was really tough to challenge before, but then again I didn't use it aggressively.
    [*]Magnet:
    • Causes untechable knockdown. Does not leave the opponent grounded long enough to cross up, only long enough to retreat.
    • THANK YOU OH MY GOD. My mine->magnet cross up still works, but I no longer have to spend brain power to tech chase off it or spend time learning to OS tech chase off it. Completely ok with this change.
      [*]Is now strike invincible before the superflash, rather than throw invincible. Still fully invincible after the flash until the first active frame. This gives her a safe DHC out.
      ALSO THANK YOU FOR THIS. Robo's defense was far too weak imo. It's still bad - as it should be - but it is no longer, "Just skip to the next character, she's dead," once she gets hit. (no credit for suggesting this way back? :^( )
  • Beams:
  • Make L/M beams reach fullscreen on the first active frame, instead of half that, so they instantly hit everything in the way.
  • This was pretty annoying to deal with, as people used meat shields in front to continue advancing. That's slightly worse now.
    [*]Increase damage to 700 and chip damage to 400 on L/M beams
    I never considered beams a major source of damage or a major zoning tool, although the chip is actually fairly noticeable. Welcome change.
    [*]Decrease recovery on L/M ground beams by 5f.
    Very noticeable. This, the hitbox change and the damage change make beams actual zoning tools now.
    [*]Decrease recovery on H ground beam by 7f.
    Now it's not completely useless on point anymore! (except vs BB)
    [*]Increased hitstun/blockstun/knockback on j.L beam a bit.
    This, paired with the double jump beam change, makes j.L Beam in particular a much stronger zoning tool.
    [*]Double-jumping grants another air Beam use if one was already used. (MMDS, hey look at that!)
    Also, beam momentum stalling was fairly useful for runaway, and now it's stronger, which is cool!
    [*]H beam now doesn’t break Big Band’s armor. This move alone made this the worst matchup in the game before, so I am specifically buffing this matchup. Headrone Impact still breaks armor, and her zoning has been buffed too. (me) HOWEVER…
    As much as this change makes me sad because OCE <3 BB and I loved to ruin anchor BB's life with RF, this needed to happen for the sake of the game imo.
    [*]Increased hitstop on H Beam vs armor from 0f to 3f. This allows Robo to block a fullscreen SSJ that will go through her falling H Beam, but not a half-screen SSJ, and not with a ground H Beam. Armor cancels are still possible vs this Beam.
    It's totally ok.
  • Headrone RAM:
    • Improve vertical tracking speed a bit.
    • Really sucked when people nonchalantly jumped around RAM. Making it much more deliberate to try to avoid this creates a +R Testament K Skull like situation, except no curse on hit.
    [*]Headrone Impact:
    • Decrease time between a head detecting the opponent and it finally exploding to 1f from 6f.
    • No more chicken blocking meaty mine on wakeup!
      [*]Heads that make contact during the airborne dive portion will always explode on landing instead of waiting (or disappearing if Robo is in hitstun).
      Makes mine a much more useful semi-defensive tool. I'll take it!
    [*]Headrone Salvo:
    • Missiles knock airborne opponents downward rather than upward.
    • I never quite noticed how hard it was to convert off missiles before, but this makes it super duper easy.
      [*]Number of missiles increased: 1 head = 3->4, 2 heads = 6->8, 3 heads = 9->12, 3 heads + taunt = 21.
      Pretty big buff, combined with the hitstun change. It's much more necessary for the opponent to avoid missiles now, especially levels 2 and 3, making her Testament-esque playstyle more effective.
      [*]Increase hitstun 22f->32f, blockstun unchanged. Perhaps this and the increase in the number fired will help opponents not be able to capitalize as much after being hit...
      Improved hitstun also helps with confirming off it. I'll take it!
      [*]Salvo assist now summons up to 3 heads per call when she doesn’t already have 3 heads. A second call is still be required to fire them.
      HUGE buff to this assist, paired with all the other buffs. I'm definitely going to spend time with this assist now and see if it's a good assist now. The c.HK recovery going down also helps this tons.
    [*]Head stuff:
    • All versions of QCB+K activate heads earlier in the animation, at 6f instead of 14f.
    • Heads respond to activation call 10f faster, and begin their action 3f faster after responding.
    • Reduced the recovery of all versions by 3f.
    • Reduce recovery of c.HK by 2f.
    • Both these changes make it much easier to use heads in neutral and make it not feel like you're wasting time if you're not doing these behind an assist.
    [*]L Danger:
    • Invincible from the knees up, rather than the waist up, through the active frames.
    • It's basically a Slayer 6P now instead of an average 6P. I'm interested in seeing its ground game applications more than its anti air applications. I actually thought that its higher hitbox was a secret useful tool vs BB j.LK because you could trade with the j.LK hit and continue combo with s.LP (IPS was unaffected so it's a lv2 starter), which was useful since anti airing j.LK otherwise was a pain. It should still be possible to do this methinks, though timing it is harder now, especially since BB hits j.LK relatively early in his jump arc compared to most jumpins.
      [*]Pulls opponent in on hit so all hits connect from any distance.
      I didn't think this was a real issue? Thought all Dangers have vacuum on them. I'll take it.
      [*]Knocks away higher and farther to aid zoning if she chooses not to supercancel.
      I actually liked tech chasing off it and get mixups, but improved zoning is also a +
      [*]Recovery increased, now -20 on block.
      Irrelevant imo - most of the time you'd use it as anti air, the opponent could chicken block it and land and get a full punish so eh. I'm ok with it.
    [*]Catastrophe Cannon:
    • Reduce opponent meter build on hit for all versions.
    • Meter build difference is extremely significant. Thanks for this!
    [*]Lv3:
    • During Lv3, L/M beams cause untechable sliding knockdown, similar to Fukua’s airthrow.
    • First of the many lv3 buffs. Really really useful to get close right away. I'll take it!
      [*]Explosion does not push airblocking oppoents backward and release them from it.

      [*]Explosion now keeps the opponent in hitstop so they cannot PBGC during it. Using the bug for good, for once!
      Both thee changes are massive. PBGCing through the explosion imo made it almost completely useless and made it so that I had to get a hit otherwise I'd die, which I didn't think was a really good risk-reward scenario, especially for 3 bars.
      [*]Exploding does not clear Robo Fortune’s undizzy or reset damage scaling until she fully completes the recovery (i.e. the recovery counts as still-in-hitstun); the opponent does get a CH which subtracts some undizzy, but they do not get a full new HCH combo with reset IPS.
      Again, now you don't completely die for using level 3 in neutral and not getting a hit.
      [*]Landing recovery increased after explosion.
      Totally ok with this.
      [*]When Robo is not the point character, explosion timer is always set to 50% remaining. Prevents snapping her in for a free kill.
      Another one of those, "Now you can use it and not want to kill yourself," changes. Thanks!
      [*]Alpha-countering her in will instantly explode on landing, because that’s a minimum cost of 4 bars.
      Completely agree with the logic here. Paired with the L and M Beam sliding knockdown, you might be able to tag off it and have an AC explosion ready to go, which is really useful.
      [*]After activation, Robo has up to 25f of invincibility if she doesn’t do anything, a-la Tanden Renki.
      Makes it more useful on wakeup.
      [*]Timer counts down 5x as fast during Iron Claw, meaning she should always explode after it slams.
      This isn't Tager, Mike! :^) Useful change, especially since you'd spend 4 bars for it.
Bug fixes:
  • Double jump point falling through the floor shouldn’t count as “landing” to set off IPS.
  • Hated dropping my combos for this. Thanks!
    [*]Allow her to negative-edge all specials including Danger. Oops.
    KOF13 and GGXrd made me clean up my motions (inb4 "Why you playing Xrd it sucks you're a terrible human being blablabla") so I didn't notice this.
And that's all the changes I care about! Sorry other changes.
Overall I really really appreciate the changes. They make Robo a much better and more fun character to play (and it doesn't feel like I should be playing a very specific team in order for Robo to have any major defensive capabilities, or that I should play someone else because she's not worth it), while at the same time taking care of Robo vs BB, which was imo right on the edge of becoming bad on the levels on 3S Chun vs Q or stuff just as bad. I'm not sure how bad the damage nerf is, compared to all the other buffs, but I think this patch will be a net positive.

Side note: This patch overall seems to try to remove a lot of the unga still left in SG (ie Fukua j.HK HP +20 on block blergh etc) while at the same time adding a fair bit of pizzazz and for Robo, a fair bit of functionality touch ups. I really like this patch overall!

EDIT: Holy shit my post looks ugly. Don't know how to fix it though, so I'll just spoiler it all.
 
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- L/M beams used to deal 650. now they do 700.
- L/M beams used to chip 250. now they chip 400.
- H beam used to deal max 1459. now it deals max 1326.
- H beam used to chip max 600. now it chips max 750.

her beam damage adjustments are awesome, specially when frame data comes to mind. H beam is weaker on hit than it was though. i have no clue why.

- every ground light normal now combos into s.hp.
- as Liam said, c.lk is the only light move that frametraps into s.hp, with s.lk being the "truest" of the blockstrings.
- TK any beam (+assist call or not) > dj j.hp > xx another beam is a thing. two beams as close to the floor as possible in the least amount of time. (even less if you omit j.hp)
- landmine is +29 now
- midscreen c.mk > xx L head combo ender is meaty on opponent's backwards tech, +19 on forward tech
> M head (landmine) ender is +1 at worst.
> corner landmine ender is meaty on backwards tech with +29 advantage on block. gets you cornered at +1 if opponents forward techs though.

but....
she does literally zero damage now. her midscreen averages 6k on one meter for universals.
the absolute most damage I could squeeze with a realistic starter was 8.3k with this:

(corner)
j.hp > xx L beam starter + assist call (pillar)
(dash) > s.mk > c.hp
j.hp > xx djc > j.mk > j.hk > xx H Beam
(rejump) j.lk > j.hk > xx H beam
s.mp > s.hp > xx H Danger
c.lk > s.mp > s.mk > s.hp > xx H Danger > xx Lvl1 Cannon

starting combos with multi hits like j.mp or s.mp hold? your damage is barely gonna hit 6k. (5.5k vs 6.9k beta vs live version)

i wonder if this is forcing robo to go for zoning too much. even though she was probably the worst character in the game before, she had the choice to go in and do stuff and get rewarded with damage for her troubles. even though her tools are better now for this kind of game, the reward for playing like that is no longer present. now her damage will be mostly on neutral, reminding me MvC's morrigan.

anyway, too much theory for someone who's just been on the lab. tomorrow we play. tomorrow we talk.
 
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noaa said:
Damage
Parasoul's newest optimized stuff is hitting for 6.7K for the easy stuff and just barely breaking 7K for the hard stuff.
She doesn't have the option to zone for far away (against good players) but she gets by.

I think the damage shouldn't affect Robo negatively with all the positive buffs to her neutral game, but I agree that it forces her more towards the zoning archetype.
 
Liam said:
I think the damage shouldn't affect Robo negatively with all the positive buffs to her neutral game
i just added some damage data to compare with how she was on my post regarding beams. that "should" make up for what she lost on combos right?

I don't wanna be that guy... her defensive tools are overall astoundingly better, but it almost feels like in the state she's in with combo damage, tools like j.mp, j.lp, s.hp (buffed as is) and even the new c.mk are negligible since the reward for a hit is usually damage, which is just not there anymore.

is robo supposed to accept "space", "frame advantage", and "free head summons" as acceptable rewards for a hit? i like that, but as an option, not as something i'm forced to do.

also, if I got my opponent cornered as robo it used to be the time I felt like robo shines the most. the tools I mentioned above would suddenly become 5x scarier and pressure would actually be worth doing. Now I kind of feel like if I get my opponent cornered I want to knock him down asap and get back to fullscreen range again.

anyway... tomorrow we play.
 
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