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SG Game Design Discussion

hlvn said:
I always fucking forget to practice this

I will take your armor videos to heart and lab it up for production in Canada next month.

Armor on reaction is a brutal, brutal hard thing depending on what you're reacting to.

You can minimize the awful that is invuln DP by chaining j.mp on block into charged j.hp which eats the invuln dp and grounds you giving you time to put more pressure on... that said, I don't know that I've ever successfully done it though it is doable in practice mode.
 
Dime_x said:
Hasn't worked for me. And i also tend to get hit out of dive quite a bit. When i do get it out im still usually getting fucked over by item. Dive to bike seems to be the best thing but even then my bike startup usually gets hit by item.

But hey, i could just be doing it completely wrong, its totally possible.

What I tend to do is call dive once item drop falls, then use the soldier to block some of the projectiles and block the rest. It's slow, but there's not much else you can do.

Also can you even have 2 egrets out? Never bothered to find out. Either way bike is garbage and rather worthless in this mu sadly.
 
dekillsage said:
What I tend to do is call dive once item drop falls, then use the soldier to block some of the projectiles and block the rest. It's slow, but there's not much else you can do.

Also can you even have 2 egrets out? Never bothered to find out. Either way bike is garbage and rather worthless in this mu sadly.

no one egret at a time.

i assume he means bike super?
 
bike super gets snuffed by argus so I wouldn't recommend doing that ever.
Wouldn't recommend doing any super ever unless peacock jumps and throws out a normal, usually j.hk, or she has no meter.
 
GirlyStyle said:
no one egret at a time.

i assume he means bike super?

Bike super gets destroyed by argus agony though, so i'm not sure what he meant
 
dekillsage said:
bike super gets snuffed by argus so I wouldn't recommend doing that ever.
Wouldn't recommend doing any super ever unless peacock jumps and throws out a normal, usually j.hk, or she has no meter.

you can beat argus if you use level 3 but then again 3 meters is a bit much for a yolo move
 
I meant what i said, hk egret. It would seem that i was wrong though... Guess thats why i always thought my bike egret was getting stuffed and had to instead rely on dive>shots instead of dive to bike... Go figure.

Dive>shot seems really weak though in the matchup... Though perhaps dive>shot> lk pillar xx sniper would be a passable mindgame if i could get the peacock to block the shot and turn it into a tear.
 
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HK Egret gets fucked by Bang on reaction.

I like to Dive Toss, but even then Toss gets shit on by item drop.

If ONLY IF ONLY hitting Peacock made her Georges go away and Napalm stayed out no matter what.
 
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I honestly think the matchup would be fair if she lost invincibility on argus agony
 
Are we talking about Solo Pea here? Because Solo Pea I have NEVER had a problem with lol
 
i assume everyone is talking about with some kind of reasonable assist
 
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Can we talk about teleport?

Does Parasoul have any reasonable way to punish teleport without meter?

How much damage does she get if she uses meter?

Would SS work, or would I have to deal with the damage of Egret Charge?
 
iLoli said:
Can we talk about teleport?

Does Parasoul have any reasonable way to punish teleport without meter?

How much damage does she get if she uses meter?

Would SS work, or would I have to deal with the damage of Egret Charge?

What? everybody can punish teleport with pretty much anything they want if you time it right. I use cr.LK.
 
If only Parasoul had a move that sent her flying fullscreen above all of Peacock's non-item projectile arcs and started fast enough to punish item drop recovery. It could be as simple as doing a napalm toss and then maybe superjumping up to it? Nah, that would be busted.
 
Broken Loose said:
If only Parasoul had a move that sent her flying fullscreen above all of Peacock's non-item projectile arcs and started fast enough to punish item drop recovery. It could be as simple as doing a napalm toss and then maybe superjumping up to it? Nah, that would be busted.
Tried that for the longest time, terrible idea.
 
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iLoli said:
Tried that for the longest time, terrible idea.
Did you try it with an assist? H Knuckle and H Bomber are made for this.
 
Broken Loose said:
Did you try it with an assi

st? H Knuckle and H Bomber are made for this.
Not with Bomber, but with LNL.

It was actually in my terrible training diary from around before that weird crash.

I don't remember if I ever put down my results or not, but it was pretty disastrous.

Then again, Item drop tracked back then.

The problem was tossing got item dropped, so the tear would go away, or if I got the tear out, getting to the explosion in time to use it. There would be times where I got the jump and she was in her j.mk animation and item drop smacked me back onto the ground a little closer than I was, but in an uncomfortable area.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to revisit now that you can outrun H item drop.
 
This runs into plane nowadays but can probably be revisited
Tossing a midscreen tear then SJing onto it is hyper telegraphed slow garbage
Something like H.Shot, H.+L.Toss, Hop may or may not work
 
How about bike getting a little change?

The bike can take one projectile hit (I'll even take on startup) and keep moving, but at a slower rate.

It would be different than Parasoul getting hit and the bike being inactive.

So. 1.Parasoul does Bike and she nor the bike gets hit, cool.

2.Paraoul does Bike and Bike gets hit. Smoke starts coming off the bike and moving slower to let you know that it's not inactive.

3.Parasoul does bike and she gets hit, maybe the smoke animation is transferred over to this one so you know it's completely dead.

If we don't have the budget to do smoke animations, how about turning it a different color?

Maybe Egret Dive gets hit and throws Napalm Tears instead of grenades?
 
What if the bike only got cancelled when parasoul got hit by physical attacks, not projectiles.
 
Age said:
What if the bike only got cancelled when parasoul got hit by physical attacks, not projectiles.
I think that'd be a little TOO much?

Seems like it would make the Parasoul/Sqigs matchup even worse for Squigs?

Not to mention does that mean Parasoul can just bike then dash behind it with no fear because bike won't be cancelled ever as long as she's not being tagged by a melee hit?
 
iLoli said:
The bike can take one projectile hit (I'll even take on startup) and keep moving, but at a slower rate.
It would be different than Parasoul getting hit and the bike being inactive.
Sounds like a good start. This still assumes that the bike can be destroyed by non-projectile hits correct? Also, I'm wondering whether this will effect bella as much since a trap set up for her would be slow napalm shot > bike. A successful deflect would put bella in recovery while the bike contacts her and hits.
Though now as I type this up, the slow bike may allow bella to recover in time to react and the recovery may be quick enough regardless of bike speed.

Actually, this could be good. Hopefully a better Bella may chime in on this.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Sounds like a good start. This still assumes that the bike can be destroyed by non-projectile hits correct? Also, I'm wondering whether this will effect bella as much since a trap set up for her would be slow napalm shot > bike. A successful deflect would put bella in recovery while the bike contacts her and hits.
Though now as I type this up, the slow bike may allow bella to recover in time to react and the recovery may be quick enough regardless of bike speed.

Actually, this could be good. Hopefully a better Bella may chime in on this.
Well it doesn't seem that bad.

If Parasoul does Shot>Bike, Bella will reflect the shot, the shot may use the bike's startup one projectile hit and keep trucking, but it would at A: A slower pace, wouldn't really be a problem for bella and B:So slow that tagging it with a c.lk would be child's play.

If Parasoul tried dashing in behind the bike to punish reflect she would just be punished.

Fullscreen Shot>Bike>Reflect>Parasoul jump in>Bella hitting bike>Cancel into DH or EX or DD and punish.
>Parasoul Dash in>Bella hitting bike> Parasoul and Bella at close/mid-range neutral.​

It's not like Parasoul dominates that matchup anyways.
 
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iLoli said:
Not to mention does that mean Parasoul can just bike then dash behind it with no fear because bike won't be cancelled ever as long as she's not being tagged by a melee hit?

Not against peacock if that's what you mean. It would just mean peacock has to stop or jump, which would make approaching a bit more feasible.

Against other characters, yeah you could follow it like a slow fireball.
 
Bike DEFINITELY needs a change. I think the best change is something to the effect of:

Bike stays out even on hit, but doesnt cause untechable knockdown. It causes techable knockdown just like a sweep and does around 1400 damage so the damage is nothing to scoff at but doesnt lead to combo either. Now parasoul has a good way around projectile spam, but doesnt gain the world on that counter... Peacock or another parasoul for that matter can still tech in either direction or not tech at all to reduce parasoul advantage after knockdown, but this still allows parasoul to close the gap on good bike calls. Seems like win win to me.

Damage on bike could of course vary. And even hit effect could vary. But the constant in my mind is that bike stays active if parasoul is hit, and if the bike hits, parasoul cant easily confirm from it, if at all.
 
iLoli said:
How about bike getting a little change?

The bike can take one projectile hit (I'll even take on startup) and keep moving, but at a slower rate.

It would be different than Parasoul getting hit and the bike being inactive.

So. 1.Parasoul does Bike and she nor the bike gets hit, cool.

2.Paraoul does Bike and Bike gets hit. Smoke starts coming off the bike and moving slower to let you know that it's not inactive.

3.Parasoul does bike and she gets hit, maybe the smoke animation is transferred over to this one so you know it's completely dead.

If we don't have the budget to do smoke animations, how about turning it a different color?

Maybe Egret Dive gets hit and throws Napalm Tears instead of grenades?
The bike is already unaffected by projectiles, are you proposing to nerf it?

Edit: Or is the point of this for the bike to block one projectile like the egret dive?
 
Austin: You are aware that the Bike moving slower is making it stronger, yes?

Bike not disappearing when Parasoul is hit, but functioning like a Sweep in that you can never combo after it, so it's strictly corner carry / gapcloser would possibly make it more usable.. but iunno
 
zeknife said:
The bike is already unaffected by projectiles, are you proposing to nerf it?

Edit: Or is the point of this for the bike to block one projectile like the egret dive?
The second.

@IsaVulpes :Then how about a mixture?

If it uses it's projectile armor you can no longer combo off it and moves slower.
 
Making it soak one projectile and buffing it beyond that by also making it move slower seems .. off.
I also honestly like the "Dive absorbs projectiles, Bike ignores projectiles" thingie.
Why ever use Dive if Bike does the same thing in better?
 
IsaVulpes said:
Making it soak one projectile and buffing it beyond that by also making it move slower seems .. off.
I also honestly like the "Dive absorbs projectiles, Bike ignores projectiles" thingie.
Why ever use Dive if Bike does the same thing in better?
Because one is advancing and the other is a meat shield?

Dive takes a melee hit now?

Sometimes I don't want to advance.

I want to dive to keep Fortune's head away.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Rofl fuck that
She already has a few get out of jail cards, i would be okay if they buffed the startup on argus agony though just to make it fair
 
The bike is fine, just make egret call outs -18 now instead of -22
 
The bike is pretty handy in the bella and big band matchup cause it breaks armor and bella can't deflect it. Also as a meaty attack or in a corner carry combo.

A small buff wouldn't be out of the question but I'm not sure faster recovery would really make it useful in the peacock matchup, you'd have to mess with its properties somehow.
 
Bike is fine, powering it up to make the peacock match more doable would make other MUs unfair.

I don't think a lot of people use it too well at the moment, they try to employ it like they would Bike of XMas past where it dominated neutral. I see peeps call it at super wonky times or not use it at all.
 
Broken Loose said:
Did you try it with an assist? H Knuckle and H Bomber are made for this.

And for those of us that run without an assist?
 
Spencer said:
And for those of us that run without an assist?
RIP
GirlyStyle said:
Bike is fine, powering it up to make the peacock match more doable would make other MUs unfair.

I don't think a lot of people use it too well at the moment, they try to employ it like they would Bike of XMas past where it dominated neutral. I see peeps call it at super wonky times or not use it at all.

Bike is kinda worthless in every match up atm though. Give the guy on the motorcycle a gun :PUN:
 
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