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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

the idea afaik was that robo got a lot more reward for zoning, so her reward for getting close to the opponent was nerfed to compensate (damage and now djc mixups). i dont like it either (because i dont enjoy pure runaway robo) but i do agree she had to lose something and if people like zoning robo then that's pretty much what had to go.
This sadly. I would MUCH prefer robo gain rush buffs and nerf the zone buffs, but not only am I in the smaller group of that crowd, but it's also not the way Mike intended (AFAIK) her style of play to be.

Most of my confirms came from j. mk drill assist (sticky guard) dj. mk for the standing overhead. Now that this being nerfed, My secret for sticky guard standing overhead is revealed...

Ta da!
 
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I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but when fighting online, along with the text on the left hand side, the HP bar doesn't perform the effect in which the HP "comes off" the bar when taking damage.

This is a picture of the effect I'm talking about.

upload_2016-8-21_15-19-28.png
 
I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but when fighting online, along with the text on the left hand side, the HP bar doesn't perform the effect in which the HP "comes off" the bar when taking damage.
That's been wonky in online forever. :^P

This sadly. I would MUCH prefer robo gain rush buffs and nerf the zone buffs
Yeah but you also want Fukua to be able to zone better. :^P
i dont like it either (because i dont enjoy pure runaway robo) but i do agree she had to lose something and if people like zoning robo then that's pretty much what had to go.
Am I missing something? Did she suddenly become unable to hit the opponent? Or is this just the death throes of something really really good being turned into something slightly less good...
 
For parasoul since j.lp gives you the small tear detonation can other detonation normals affect the strength of the tears too? So light moves give weak detonation damage medium gives the standard damage and hard gives extra damage or maybe just extra chip damage.

Also can the hit box on c.mk be made taller?it often whiffs when I'm going for a restand after m.napalm shot>sniper on some characters.
 
Robo is extremely frustrating, dominant and powerful at long range with all of her new tools, and she has more defensive options that are buffed to reset neutral back to that favourable position.

I think the idea is that she doesn't also need to open you up with easy fast fuzzies / ambiguous overheads once she gets close to you.

She still has ambiguous left rights from blocked double jumps in combination with her fast dash speed to stick to people.

Her normals also have really good numbers, like s[MP].

Look at Double who is just low throw from frame advantage (which you can OS with delayed techs) having no issue being top tier and able to open up good players.

I don't think Robo is crippled up close because of this change.
 
For robo fortune. Can the hit box on her j.hp start on her hands instead of just appearing below her?
 
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I mean I of course don't think robo is horribly weak up close but you can't deny this is a nerf to robo's mixup game that encourages her to play more defensively/zoning. Just saying that I would have also rather had her be stronger up close and weaker at fullscreen but I know I'm in the minority.

Double still feels really good!

only real nerfs were to double as anchor IMO since you get less out of saving up a lot of bar, point/2nd double is still just about as strong as it was, which is to say very strong.
 
when you use r.fortune impact assist in the corner is it supposed to land behind your point character?
208610_20160821181058_1.png

when not in the corner it lands in the center of parasoul.
 
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when you use r.fortune impact assist in the coroner is it supposed to land behind your point character?
when not in the corner it lands in the center of parasoul.
Mines decide where to place depending on where they are at that exact moment the lights flash I believe?

She has to travel far to reach the corner quickly from the other side when called as an assist assuming she comes from the right, which means the heads take a second to catch up.

If you dash from fullscreen and then cancel dash into mine usually it places way behind you too.

Not sure if this is how it was intended to work though?
 
So this keeps getting brought up but no one has said anything about it
b31997718972fd47374f50dc4248876f.jpg
 
Has anyone mentioned that in Beta something is messed up with Big Band's idle animation? Colors are fucked for like a frame or something @Mike_Z
 
So this keeps getting brought up but no one has said anything about it
The numbers? Yeah they're already fixed here.

Has anyone mentioned that in Beta something is messed up with Big Band's idle animation? Colors are fucked for like a frame or something @Mike_Z
Oy, @EU03 :^\
I'll fix it...
 
would it be possible to have Parasoul dash instead of attack when you buffer a button dash after L napalm shot?
 
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I feel fine about Robo's DJC change. I, for one, don't care if she gets back those properties on hit (but she should get them back if lv3 is active).
I don't think a damage hit to her L/M beams is what's needed to tone down her keepaway at this point, maybe knocking down the recovery of them by ~3 frames would help?
40% left on the timer of her lv3 when she gets snapped feels really good! Just enough time to either rush in and attempt to catch your opponent, or backdash and summon 3 heads > Salvo (if you're a bit slow, the 3rd head won't receive the "do the missiles" command, so you get to keep it).
Not like her reset options were that great anyway
Really? Cause I think she has a really good air vortex.

On Filia's Airball. There's setups to make it look ambiguous as to whether she's still in the air or on the ground once Airball is in recovery, and from there, she can do either j.LK or c.LK. Though I think she should still be able to dash cancel it on block in the air or ground, but not both.
 
@Mike_Z I know @Pickles talked to you personally about this with the unblockable thresher dhc magnet bug but I decided to take things one step further today.
After thoroughly testing all the supers in the game minus level 5s, Robo Fortune's Magnet is unblockable when DHC'd not only when at a specific height which usually the top of the character's jump; but when DHC'd RIGHT as you super, before the enemy even blocks it will trigger the grab. I don't know how else to explain it due to me not knowing a lot of terminology; I hope you understand what I'm saying.

Note that every super I do not mention in this works with this bug.
The supers that do NOT work with this unblockable are primarily, but not limited to projectiles, such as - Valentine air, and ground scalpels, Squigly Orb and level 3, Fukua Fireball, Fukua BFF, Bella's level 3, Eliza's Lady of Slaughter, and Parasoul's Sniper Shot; but there are outliers. Peacock's Argus Agony works which I assume is because you can DHC magnet before the initial laser comes out, and Parasoul's Bikes work if you DHC right before the first bike comes out, yet when I got it to work a bike came out which might be with how the bikes are coded. Catheads also works with this bug which might be because they're coded the same as bikes?

There are other occurrences when this bug will not work though, which I guess might have to do with specific character placing and whether or not you can DHC in time before the enemy is blocking. Examples of this are Double's Car, due to her moving across the whole screen, and Beowulf's level 3 due to how large the initial hitbox is, and how you can't DHC until he swings his fist (I attempted both of these situations using both directions from car, and backing up a little bit for Beo level 3).
Peacock level 3 doesn't work for whatever reason as well.
I had no means to record myself doing this today but I can provide video evidence if needed.

I realize this very well has already been noted and is getting fixed but I wanted to clarify that this bug spans the whole cast.
 
noooo my doublejump nerfs ;_;
 
@Mike_Z I know @Pickles talked to you personally about this with the unblockable thresher dhc magnet bug but I decided to take things one step further today.
After thoroughly testing all the supers in the game minus level 5s, Robo Fortune's Magnet is unblockable when DHC'd not only when at a specific height which usually the top of the character's jump; but when DHC'd RIGHT as you super, before the enemy even blocks it will trigger the grab. I don't know how else to explain it due to me not knowing a lot of terminology; I hope you understand what I'm saying.
I think the super is supposed to be unblockable if the opponent is on the way up and blockable if the opponent is on the way down (and blocking already).
 
I'm just throw out my """suggestion""" first and then explain why I'm asking later.

If feasible, I feel like it'd be interesting to test how much it would affect headless (and only headless) Fortune if she had the ability to alter the angles she launches at when using Fiber Upper. For example, if a player does Fiber and holds up on the stick, Fortune flies up higher than usual, traveling more vertically and less horizontally than a normal Fiber, while if a Fiber is held while holding down on the stick, she sort of "hops" and moves less vertically while covering more horizontal distance than usual. I feel this could also complement her ability to volley the head with Fiber Upper and kind of travel along with it. This could open up new combo routes, resets involving using Fiber to move a certain way and have the head keep on pressure, etc. etc.

The lore reason being losing her head makes her more aerodynamic and she lost weight something something something.

As for why I'm asking this... it's mainly because I just think it's a potentially fun idea, but also because although I haven't been keeping up too too much with other Fortune players in the past year or so, I've noticed that a good amount of Fortune players (with some notable exceptions) still aren't putting time into learning headless because of... head-on being too strong (or strong enough), headless being too weak (or at least, head-on is strong enough that headless is not necessary), whatever the reasons are. The head volley mechanic I asked for some time ago clearly wasn't enough to convince people to put more time into headless Fortune, and there is no guarantee that this could either especially after all these years, but I felt it was worth a shot to ask.

I also wanna echo @Adeveis in that Fortune's H Gato loop may be a bit too damaging/H gato builds too much meter especially considering that it starts off an instant overhead.
 
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Fortune needs more than 2 ways to put her head back on. Let her put on her head like beo picks up his chair (2 kick buttons) except she can also do it mid air. No extra art needed just let it pop on with the same graphic effect as the normal head call while in mid air. If she's near her head on the ground she can still do the 2 kick button head pick up but she will do her normal head pick up animation.
 
I think there's a nice balance between head-on/head-off tbh. Most people that play fortune do so with head-on because it's just easier to manage as a character. Call me optimistic but I still think the players using her have the room to grow and incorporate both modes effectively.
 
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Fortune needs more than 2 ways to put her head back on. Let her put on her head like beo picks up his chair (2 kick buttons) except she can also do it mid air. No extra art needed just let it pop on with the same graphic effect as the normal head call while in mid air. If she's near her head on the ground she can still do the 2 kick button head pick up but she will do her normal head pick up animation.
No.
 
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Being able to hit the head multiple times helped me play both sides of her equally. I feel like this is enough
 
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Fair enough. Thought it'd be worth a shot, but I ain't gonna push the idea any further if other Fortune players think she already has enough.
 
Shouldn't parasoul be able to bounce off of fukua's clones with her j.d+mk? She can bounce off of other normal attackable specials like eliza's chair and egret dive why not clones now that they're attackable?
 
I feel like putting in different jump angles would just make headless even more complicated and prone to fatal errors, which I think is one of the reasons why nobody plays or takes the time to learn headless. I feel like the best option to maybe remedy this would be to put a damage cap on what the head can take, but I think that kind of might be too strong, or rather too drastic of a change.

Personally I would really like it if fortune's head would wallbounce after she gets snapped out so that the head isn't in the corner when you get doublesnapped. Coming back in after getting doublesnapped and immediately being in a incoming mixup situation where you either take more chip if you block correctly or you're in potential touch of death territory if you get hit REALLY sucks after you already lost a character for a bad assist call.

also picking up the head in the air would look incredibly jank.

In addition, I've been having weird problems with big band's parry ever since the changes to it were made. Parrying things that are very consistent for me on retail like double jhp keep failing unexpectedly in the beta. I'm not sure whats causing it but I'm almost positive that its not some psychosomatic thing. I'm noticing it more with big multihit normals that you'd see on pw and double. I'm suspicious that the ability to cancel parry into forward dash is making me forward dash in the middle of multihit normals, but I can't tell if thats the case. Maybe it has to do with the changes to parry or the changes to the normals that couldnt be armor canceled but its really bothering me.
 
Shouldn't parasoul be able to bounce off of fukua's clones with her j.d+mk? She can bounce off of other normal attackable specials like eliza's chair and egret dive why not clones now that they're attackable?
Clones taking away active hitboxes would be a huge buff to Fukua and a nerf to Parasoul in this situation.
 
I think there's a nice balance between head-on/head-off tbh. Most people that play fortune do so with head-on because it's just easier to manage as a character. Call me optimistic but I still think the players using her have the room to grow and incorporate both modes effectively.

This.
 
Not sure Peacock needs buffs...?

Don't want to sound like I'm saying this solely because I main Peacock but I feel she could use some buffs potentially. I mean her damage is really good, in some situations she has great 50/50 resets and she is a meter battery and while I like to think I do very well as her, have done well in tournaments and really enjoy playing her, I have to say I think she has a lot against her compared to the rest of the cast.

Her damage is terrific but landing hits is the hardest thing for me as a Peacock main. Against good players I can almost never open them up and against most players I have to rely on my assist for a lot for confirms. Granted this is helped by her damage output, but it doesn't do her good when her chip damage and argus confirms aren't enough to finish the job and she can't get any solid hits. (Might I add that while her chip damage is decent, it isn't outstanding by any means. In fact I feel Robo can outchip Peacock now, and while characters like Fukua and Parasoul can't do the chip Peacock can, they have a stronger set of normals and tools to back up their zoning where Peacock relies mainly on her keepaway)

I get she is supposed to have poor anti airs, but this just makes getting hits all the harder. Her air to air game is weak too. If I recall, she has the slowest air light (at 9 frames) and while her airgrab has been buffed over the years, it is one of the harder air throws to confirm off consistently (Though perhaps that's my fault as I try to go for j.mk mainly). Also if I get an anti air, the rewards tend to be rather miniscule. Anti air c.lk leads into s.mk most of the time but c.mp is kind of wonky to confirm off of and ends up being just a single hit, but leaves the opponent in my face where they want to be anyways.

Same goes for her defense as it's reasonable to be lackluster but it's not doing her any favors. Most characters have ways to get in and since the chip can't kill good players on it's own, they are going to get in eventually. She lost her last fully invincible move (Lenny) and has some of the worst defensive options along with Robo, especially when cornered. There's a reason why I'm so prone to abusing tags, it's her best DP at times. Combine this with how against certain characters she can't even dare to input a special or even throw out a single bomb without getting opened up (Beo, Filia, Val, Fortune, Fukua and to an extent the likes of Double, Bella and even Band is intimidating at times) makes her have a hard time doing what she is meant to do. Many times I've played Sage and Sonic and I can be doing a great job at keeping away but unless I get off a difficult confirm, I usually don't get the kill and Peacock will eventually die.

Let's not forget her level 3 is just a troll/hype move in it's current state, her airdash leaves her ridiculously vulnerable if she tries to escape a corner with it without shadow charged and both her main reversals are beaten/baited simply by jumping.

Long story short, she can do well, she is a good character and has strengths and weaknesses like all the others. But consider that she has all this: slowest air jab; a useless level 3; some of the worst defensive options, anti airs and combo starting potential; relies mainly on her zoning which is only decently damaging and ineffective against most of the cast and trumped entirely by certain assists, only character with no fully invincible moves, and has the slowest "fastest low" at 15 frames.
She might be good and I think she's fun to play but I think she could use a bit of help. Peacock just has a lot against her that makes her a lot less intimidating at a high level. Not trying to come off whiny or needy, just figured I'd say what I think.
 
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Was I the reason you changed the weird interaction between M Egret and Robo beam? :3c

No but seriously thanks for fixing that in tonight's patch it was super weird and definitely needed to be adjusted because it just didn't seem right.
 
Parasoul's egret buff is a bit scary lol, as it is now I've lost two of my favorite characters to waste bar on for chip damage from full screen, Parasoul and Big Band =p
 
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Just initial thought, Parasoul feels really good to play. Combos work, a little bit less dumb neutral, buffer so basic tear stuff doesn't just drop for no reason, and M egret feels a lot more useful in a ton of situations. And none of it feels broken. Just utilitarian.
 
Also, man holdable hitgrabs r scary *PTSD from Shabrys Corner pressure*
 
Parasoul's egret buff is a bit scary lol, as it is now I've lost two of my favorite characters to waste bar on for chip damage from full screen, Parasoul and Big Band =p
yeah after playing a set against peacock/m egret/eliza it seems like a pretty strong counter to most anyone who relies on projectiles as a part of their neutral (robo, para, peacock)

not sure how i feel about it entirely, it seems strong but not... broken? im unsure honestly
 
@Mike_Z I know @Pickles talked to you personally about this with the unblockable thresher dhc magnet bug but I decided to take things one step further today.
Soooooo...the bug that Pickles found is that AFTER YOU BLOCK it was unblockable.
It being unblockable on the way up if you HAVE NOT YET BLOCKED is intended, and everything into Beo's air super will work the same way.
So the bug did indeed span the whole cast, but the behavior you're pointing out is not a bug...?

Fortune needs more than 2 ways to put her head back on.
I disagree.

Coming back in after getting doublesnapped and immediately being in a incoming mixup situation where you either take more chip if you block correctly or you're in potential touch of death territory
I thought I was doing her a favor, because on incoming you can sneeze and be blocking (F,D,DF,B+HP). Maybe not?

In addition, I've been having weird problems with big band's parry ever since the changes to it were made. Parrying things that are very consistent for me on retail like double jhp keep failing unexpectedly in the beta. I'm not sure whats causing it but I'm almost positive that its not some psychosomatic thing. I'm noticing it more with big multihit normals that you'd see on pw and double. I'm suspicious that the ability to cancel parry into forward dash is making me forward dash in the middle of multihit normals, but I can't tell if thats the case. Maybe it has to do with the changes to parry or the changes to the normals that couldnt be armor canceled but its really bothering me.
Do you have a replay where you parry something correctly in the real game, but the same replay doesn't work in the Beta?
And/or, can you get me a replay where it fails in the Beta so I can look at what happens?
I sort of noticed it also, but I'm trying to figure out why.

@Swiftfox-Dash
Well, okay. So the Japanese players are very adamant "Don't change Peacock". :^P I can make her c.LK a slightly better antiair and I can make c.MP slightly better for comboing it off that. The rest of her I'd leave alone, but her damage is still kinda high...
 
Well, okay. So the Japanese players are very adamant "Don't change Peacock". :^P I can make her c.LK a slightly better antiair and I can make c.MP slightly better for comboing it off that. The rest of her I'd leave alone, but her damage is still kinda high...
If i'm being completely honest here, if she remains relatively the same as she is now, she sort of needs that damage. Having to rely on assists and M item drop as the main way to start any combo outside of airthrow can prove to be quite the challenge. She needs that reward for when she manages to get a clean hit. As it is now, her keepaway game is good but not that threatening. The only people I can kill consistently with just keep away/chip alone are those that are impatient or are unfamiliar with the matchup. Those that are patient or familiar, will take as much chip as needed and eventually close the gap. And with the proper mixups/assists, once caught, it's practically impossible for Peacock to escape as she has no way to DHC out or deal with setups.
 
Impressions so far: Parasoul's M egret proves to be useful in making zoners think, while not being awfully strong enough to invalidate zoning.

Fukua's cmd grab at first i thought was ok if they are close range that it throws them away from you but it feels rather awkward mainly because it made sense it would always throw it back at you. Hoping we could try that version of always throwing back at you sometime.

My main concern mostly is something that's come up the moment the beta started up. since L shadow no longer breaks armor then we are stuck to use M clone, correct? The problem is that fukua now has a rather interesting problem dealing with armored assist, since M clone is a hitgrab and leaves asssist unaffected. If you want it this way, that is fine but that was the IMMEDIATE concern from the other fukua players that messaged me. Well that and how her "zoning" was nerfed to "holy hell"