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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

You can still do the thing where you jump forward with fukua j.hk and make them block and crossup. I thought @Mike_Z said that was removed cause it was never intentional in the stream.

Also, not directly to Mike, but just to say it. Shadows seem kinda too good. I think they'll need to be toned down. You can combo into holding a shadow without an assist (at the cost of an OTG), you can cross the opponent up so the shadow is behind them and won't get hit while attacking, you can combo into a shadow hold, then into a crossup overhead backed by a delayed low (or a crossup low backed by a delayed overhead, depending on when you let go of the button). I guess they're comparable to Peacock's SoiD shenanigans, but those are usually left/right or high/low (or left/right/low if there's an assist), where these Fukua shenanigans can be high/low/left/right when backed by an assist while Fukua just waits to see if you got hit.

If I could suggest any change, it would be something like a short delay and a visual cue after release if they've been held for x-frames, or something like losing their overhead/low properties after x-frames.
 
yo val and double players, since my pc doesnt love me and i cant really test it out, how do the changes feel? I didnt like the initial idea of double having to be point for the puddle to stay full time but if it doesnt change things up much, i'll accept it. Also with the val change can she still iad with buttons or nah?
 
Ninjapls said:
yo val and double players, since my pc doesnt love me and i cant really test it out, how do the changes feel? I didnt like the initial idea of double having to be point for the puddle to stay full time but if it doesnt change things up much, i'll accept it. Also with the val change can she still iad with buttons or nah?
val is kinda feeling much stronger in the ground since the backdash airdash is fast as hell. airthrow is now a more legit reset, before it was too inconsistent. i didnt feel that double got much worse but i dont play her anchor and people are saying that double anchor got the biggest hit
 
aight thanks bruh. looking forward to these changes for val.
 
extra Filia QoL buff:

sMP will no longer whiff at certain ranges against short crouchers (val, filia, etc.) after cLK hit/block due to the box changes. IAD jLK/jMK jMP(FF) cLK sMP is now airtight for confirms into cMK.


Valentine:

Airdash change feels really nice. Imagine (and hope) the airthrow whiff lockout is unintended and she'll get it. Same for button dash; would definitely like to be able to 4466 or 44~P+P dash the old way too if that's possible.
 
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gllt said:
. And sev played that and didn't really utilize the jMK2 loops because they weren't worth the tradeoff, IMO. Her routes are unaffected.

i did a few variants of jMK loop in my otg using corner things and im sad that they're gone sorta. also worth nothing jMK loop was still optimal for hard KD even with axe assist. i didn't do it often simply due to my own consistency with it against lightweights.

i understand justifying the 1 per combo rule due to the sheer efficiency of jMK2 for the stun it used, combo length seems ??? when there are some equally bad offenders in terms of combo time
 
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Ahh thank you sev, that was supposed to be IIRC not IMO as well, so I'm extra glad you clarified because I wasn't actually sure like my post implied I was!
 
hilaryyy said:
Valentine:

Airdash change feels really nice. Imagine (and hope) the airthrow whiff lockout is unintended and she'll get it. Same for button dash; would definitely like to be able to 4466 or 44~P+P dash the old way too if i want a different time/angle.

i hope this does change. she needs that lil bit of something to be scary again imo.
 
Zidiane said:
You can still do the thing where you jump forward with fukua j.hk and make them block and crossup. I thought @Mike_Z said that was removed cause it was never intentional in the stream.

Also, not directly to Mike, but just to say it. Shadows seem kinda too good. I think they'll need to be toned down. You can combo into holding a shadow without an assist (at the cost of an OTG), you can cross the opponent up so the shadow is behind them and won't get hit while attacking, you can combo into a shadow hold, then into a crossup overhead backed by a delayed low (or a crossup low backed by a delayed overhead, depending on when you let go of the button). I guess they're comparable to Peacock's SoiD shenanigans, but those are usually left/right or high/low (or left/right/low if there's an assist), where these Fukua shenanigans can be high/low/left/right when backed by an assist while Fukua just waits to see if you got hit.

If I could suggest any change, it would be something like a short delay and a visual cue after release if they've been held for x-frames, or something like losing their overhead/low properties after x-frames.

Well I think the big counter act to the this fukua stuff is that her damage is lower, since her shadows scale. Ideally we need to try and test out just how fukua works in matches now if she is still as annoying with that in mind that she has to work more to kill.

Might need others to verify the jHK stuff though, but that'd be sad if it still was crossing up unintentionally.
 
fenster said:
Might need others to verify the jHK stuff though, but that'd be sad if it still was crossing up unintentionally.
Tested on Filia, Fortune, and Bella.
 
I honestly feel that the Fukua damage nerf only greatly affected the Fukuas that do the optimal combos (using every Shadow instead of only doing j.HK loops.) and the Fukuas that just do j.HK loops remain relatively unscathed. I also feel that with Shadows now getting hit, holding down the Shadow should drain meter instead of health (If you have no meter left, you lose the ability to hold Shadows.).
 
Facade, I disagree with the shadow's draining meter. there has been enough nerfs in that department concerning meter gain.

My post is regarding Fukua.

Overall the utility of the whole shadow hold concept and after talking with mike. I really like it. Fukua is much much much more interesting.
Being able to set up "points" to plan your next action is really good. It sets up her low throw game alot better and meterless!

This is huge. H shadow or M shadow allows you to convert from Airgrab, Cmd grab. This alone is really really good! The intended purpose for this mechanic is for setting up pressure or Oki and this REALLY brings out the best in her.

I've played a bunch of people and i found certain things difficult but that's concerning personal hand problems.
if possible. maybe the shadows over all length could be shortened to 3 or 4 seconds possibly?

Reason i say this is because holding that shadow over someone is hella long.
 
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Cadenza said:
Facade, I disagree with the shadow's draining meter. there has been enough nerfs in that department concerning meter gain.

I've played a bunch of people and i found certain things difficult but that's concerning personal hand problems.
if possible. maybe the shadows over all length could be shortened to 3 or 4 seconds possibly?

Reason i say this is because holding that shadow over someone is hella long.

Plz no. ;_; It's fine as is I think. If you want 3-4 second shadows, fire 'em off, lol. I have some ideas and the longer that shadows are allowed to stay on screen, the more stupidly good Fukua's pressure strings get. And I really like how it's turning out.

Also, Filia's BnB is still the same, for people who aren't digging the launch height. The timing is ever so slightly changed, but it still works perfectly fine.

EDIT:
Also, it's fine that shadow drains health IMO. It's a decent trade-off for the amount of pure utility it offers.
 
Val's lowest possible airdash jLP is whiffing on some of the shorter/narrower characters crouching in the corner, not unlike the fortune jLK thing.
 
hilaryyy said:
Val's lowest possible airdash jLP is whiffing on some of the shorter/narrower characters crouching in the corner, not unlike the fortune jLK thing.
Can you make a list?
Might be worth looking into if it's a few pixels.
 
While consistent gregor from hairball is nice. The s.HP change does butcher some of her midscreen combo's/resets. I'd prefer if she could keep them. Sticking to 2 routes while playing Filia is hard.

Love being able to do spear > Raging Demon thooo! <3
 
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Regarding Demon, if the secret move is going to be possibly useful now then I think it probably shouldn't be secret then.
 
Snapbacks are still a thing. Unless it's 1v1.
 
Some quick notes on a few characters:

Filia
- Hairball knockback is nice for dash followups and not having gregor miss. It did mess with combos that utilized the original height to get a good c.HP ground bounce though.
- The s.HP change messed with A LOT of things. Some resets don't really work anymore and doing stuff like s.HP > Ringlet is pretty much gone.
- yay snapback hitbox buff.

Fukua
- New shadow attacks are really really good. There's some pretty dirty setups with them and they let you do conversions you couldn't normally do before. They might have been a little too much if it wasn't for the big damage nerf. Definitely makes her a much more interesting character.

Robo-Fortune
- The beam changes are really nice for her, along with pretty much everything else, BUT
- I feel like she took too hard of a hit to her damage output. She's definitely on the very low end of the spectrum among the cast when it comes to dealing damage now. Couple this with j.MP and j.HK being among her most common starters, scaling makes her do pretty abysmal damage IMO. The other character's that do comparable damage now are parasoul and fukua and neither of them suffer the same scaling problem from hit confirms that robo-fortune has to deal with. My midscreen damage went from 8k to a sad 6.6k WITH some more optimization done. If you use j.MP or j.HK at all in your starter, you are easily doing below 6k damage. I think she should at least be hitting 400-500 more damage overall.
- I don't feel like lvl3 is a complete waste of meter in most situations now. yay
- EDIT: New beams are suuuuper good vs peacock. Haven't exactly tested it but is HP Beam even worth using on painwheel charging j.HP anymore?
 
missingno said:
Snapbacks are still a thing. Unless it's 1v1.

Well if you have a team, you don't have to rely on meter to get your red hp back that you drained for using one of your moves. And with nerfed damage as well, her output won't be nearly as high as other solos.
 
hilaryyy said:
Same for button dash; would definitely like to be able to 4466 or 44~P+P dash the old way too if that's possible.
She still can, those didn't get changed at all...?

Zidiane said:
You can still do the thing where you jump forward with fukua j.hk and make them block and crossup.
She can land behind them, that's not really fixable. But it shouldn't be able to HIT as a crossup that you had to block the other way, anymore.
If you can do that, record me a replay.

Façade said:
I honestly feel that the Fukua damage nerf only greatly affected the Fukuas that do the optimal combos (using every Shadow instead of only doing j.HK loops.) and the Fukuas that just do j.HK loops remain relatively unscathed.
All her normals do less...?

RemiKz said:
- EDIT: New beams are suuuuper good vs peacock. Haven't exactly tested it but is HP Beam even worth using on painwheel charging j.HP anymore?
Only Big Band's Brass and A-Train go through H Beam. Everything else is unchanged.

severine said:
i understand justifying the 1 per combo rule due to the sheer efficiency of jMK2 for the stun it used, combo length seems ??? when there are some equally bad offenders in terms of combo time
Yes, but Big Band doesn't have to be one of the offenders, does he.
It's not just length, it's length and repetition AND the fact that you see it ALLLLLLL the time. Believe me I didn't come to the decision lightly, but I did reach it.
 
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Mike_Z said:
She still can, those didn't get changed at all...?


I think the complaint here is that 44>PP gives you backdash > airdash > j.LP where it used to just end at the airdash.

I haven't found a way to do a 2 button dash for the airdash and not automatically get a button yet.
 
Mike_Z said:
She can land behind them, that's not really fixable. But it shouldn't be able to HIT as a crossup that you had to block the other way, anymore.
Then I misunderstood what the change was, it sounded like you were removing her ability to side switch on block. She can make them block so it looks like it's crossing up, but it doesn't actually.
 
Pen_Ninja said:
I think the complaint here is that 44>PP gives you backdash > airdash > j.LP where it used to just end at the airdash.
Yeah, Izzmo showed me, I'll fix it tomorrow.
 
and 44>MP+HP gets you BD>AD>jMP
 
Fukua
Forever a Clone:
- *NEW* You can switch between holding different Kick buttons and still hold the Clone. For example, holding an M Clone -> hold HK -> release MK = still holding Clone until ALL Kick buttons are released."

So... If this stays: thoughts on giving Peacock the same thing with her SOID and punch buttons?
 
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Same opinion as Wing. I'd rather have Filia's s.hp the same as the previous one since it messed up with a lot of her stuff.

Agreed with all the Fukua changes with the exception of removing cross up j.hk. All the nerfs were coherent and had a nice reasoning behind them, but not this one.
 
TY for reverting filia s.hp change

re: holding shadows/item drops: I always thought that was an active gameplay decision, i.e. choosing to hold a button is a choice you make at the cost of being able to use that button for combos, and now of course you no longer have to do that since you can change at any time. Maybe that wasn't intentional in the design, idk.

I don't know if I agree with the scaling change on shadows, I would say fukua probably has the strongest setplay in the game with shadows now and it seemed fair that it came at the cost of having the lowest damage if you chose to use shadows. Now that shadow combos do mid-6k damage (m shadow vortex alone breaks 3k again), the damage nerfs are much less significant and the patch basically amounts to a huge buff to a character who was already considered one of the best.
 
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OK so val now has (consistent) BD/AD jMK(1) jHK fastfall which leaves you at like +18 on hit so you can link a cLK after: if they block both you're doing a blockstring, if they block the overhead but not the low you're in and if the overhead hits you can easily link cLK anyway

pretty coooooool

also dependent on spacing sometimes you'll land behind them after the jMK(1) jHK fastfall and that's even trickier

EDIT: and if they block the jMK(1) it's also a fuzzy setup
 
sorry for the dumb question but what does hit scaling even mean?

so the next hit after Clone will do 33% less damage unless the scaling has passed 66% with other hits in the combo?
 
I assumed it was just "shadows force scaling to 66% if it was above that" but the wording is a little weird yeah
 
I love that Squigly can tag-in now when I KO the opponent's point character without getting punished by the incoming character.

That's all I have to say for the moment since my tendinitis has flared up a bit so I can't play.
 
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