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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

cloudKing211 said:
Edit: My comment was referring to in any event where your opponent blocked blitzer, why not do the safe version, it is up to your inputs

Besides the spacing reason in the last post, if the enemy blocked it in the air it is possible that doing the safe version may not be so safe because of chicken block.
 
Bonanzo said:
The risk reward exists in the inverse also. If someone calls you out on you doing arm as a frame-trap after blitzer you can be punished with a HCH and lose the meter. Assuming you DHC to something safe you have now spent 2 bar to get out which a lot of characters can do and is nothing new. Assuming you don't have a safe DHC you sacrifice the character you DHC to. Its just like any normal frame-trap except it spends meter and is unsafe I don't really see the problem?
HERE WE GO

Risk/Reward literally means a situation that is risky that may lead to a reward if successful. Literally in the name.

Yes, if you go for a read that has amazing reward, and fails, you should be punished. That is common FG sense. If you spend the meter to be safe, you are safe. That is great, and sometimes this "safe" may even be plus, allowing you to be the aggressor. Meter build in this game is high anyways, so spending 2 meter on a mixup that if it works deals tons of damage, and if it fails may be made safe with meter. This happens very often.

This same reason is why people found retail Beast of Gehenna to be so amazing and prompted Mike to make changes to it. For a meter she can make many resets and approaches safe to punish for 1 meter. This utility was too amazing for 1 meter in most people's opinions. Spending 2 meter is a higher cost for such a thing, which limits how often it may be used. This does not, however, lessen the benefit that super-safe dhc grants.

Whether or not the concept of super-safe dhc is new is not relevant here so ??????

Yes if you attempt to disrespect their mixup option with a super, without a safe dhc, you took a risk. If it works, you benefit; if it fails, you get punished. If you dhc into an unsafe super (which is all up to you doing it, you can choose to take punishment), that is all on you, the player who chose to do that.

In the example of grendel arm super, if used as a frame-trap after a minus blitzer, gives this situation: If they block it, he gets punished; it it hits their throw/low/other button, they take 3750 damage. If they are midscreen, he gets a follow-up; if he is near the corner facing it, he gets no follow-up; if he is near the corner but facing toward midscreen, he can super again.

Now lets add PW to Beowulf's team, for the sake of the safe dhc argument.
This is the new situation:
If they block (and you dhc fast enough), then you enter with painwheel being at advantage. If it hits CH, then she gets a follow-up starting at 3750 damage and 1 hit of scaling.

If the risk/reward here isn't relevant, especially as a frame-trap mixup after a minus, yet unpunishable move, then I don't think we are playing fighting games right now.

There was no problem, just that you are not realizing that being minus yet unpunishable is not a bad spot to be in after a FAILED mixup.

Edit: If you did wolf blitzer, while knowing that they may block it at a low enough height to land cancel it (which unless the move they land cancel with is invincible, may get hit by the other hits of wulf blitzer), then that is again on you, the player, for doing it.
 
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cloudKing211 said:
HERE WE GO

Risk/Reward literally means a situation that is risky that may lead to a reward if successful. Literally in the name.

Yes, if you go for a read that has amazing reward, and fails, you should be punished. That is common FG sense. If you spend the meter to be safe, you are safe. That is great, and sometimes this "safe" may even be plus, allowing you to be the aggressor. Meter build in this game is high anyways, so spending 2 meter on a mixup that if it works deals tons of damage, and if it fails may be made safe with meter. This happens very often.

This same reason is why people found retail Beast of Gehenna to be so amazing and prompted Mike to make changes to it. For a meter she can make many resets and approaches safe to punish for 1 meter. This utility was too amazing for 1 meter in most people's opinions. Spending 2 meter is a higher cost for such a thing, which limits how often it may be used. This does not, however, lessen the benefit that super-safe dhc grants.

Whether or not the concept of super-safe dhc is new is not relevant here so ??????

Yes if you attempt to disrespect their mixup option with a super, without a safe dhc, you took a risk. If it works, you benefit; if it fails, you get punished. If you dhc into an unsafe super (which is all up to you doing it, you can choose to take punishment), that is all on you, the player who chose to do that.

In the example of grendel arm super, if used as a frame-trap after a minus blitzer, gives this situation: If they block it, he gets punished; it it hits their throw/low/other button, they take 3750 damage. If they are midscreen, he gets a follow-up; if he is near the corner facing it, he gets no follow-up; if he is near the corner but facing toward midscreen, he can super again.

Now lets add PW to Beowulf's team, for the sake of the safe dhc argument.
This is the new situation:
If they block (and you dhc fast enough), then you enter with painwheel being at advantage. If it hits CH, then she gets a follow-up starting at 3750 damage and 1 hit of scaling.

If the risk/reward here isn't relevant, especially as a frame-trap mixup after a minus, yet unpunishable move, then I don't think we are playing fighting games right now.

There was no problem, just that you are not realizing that being minus yet unpunishable is not a bad spot to be in after a FAILED mixup.

Edit: If you did wolf blitzer, while knowing that they may block it at a low enough height to land cancel it (which unless the move they land cancel with is invincible, may get hit by the other hits of wulf blitzer), then that is again on you, the player, for doing it.

Risk/Reward means taking a situation that is risky that may lead to a reward. Using your advantage to attempt to punish/start a blockstring against a beowulf that can arm is risky leading to a reward. Im not sure if you just wanted to define risk/reward for me but if you wanted to refute the inverse existing in what I said sure that is my counter sticking to that definition.

You mention beast of gehenna and its lower cost yet and how it was used to be safe but you also in the same post mention how it is not similar because you also mention how this whole concept is different because you spend two meter.

Super-Safe DHC is brought up because a lot of characters can do it. It being new was just a figure of speech to let it be known many characters can do it. It is relevant to the conversation having it be a transition piece.

You already mentioned what happens when you arm without a safe DHC.

The whole DHC argument on the damage you can do with a big super into a safe DHC that combo's could have literally any character with a high damage low hit scaling super. Like bigband/painwheel fits there just as well after a frametrap ssj.

The risk reward here is relevant but what I was trying to point out the whole time with the first line of my last post was that it does work the opposite way.

If you make a risk as the defending character you can be rewarded counter-play exists.

Also "If the risk/reward here isn't relevant, especially as a frame-trap mixup after a minus, yet unpunishable move, then I don't think we are playing fighting games right now." is not applicable because I mention in my very first sentence of my last post that it is.

EDIT: I should also address your last statement. That sure this case may exist and in my belief it goes both ways on the risk-reward assessment chart however, outside of the frametrap scenario being minus after blitzer is not really a positive so if for some reason you cannot arm (lack of meter) or have no safe DHC available I believe the situation shifts to favor the defender heavily.
 
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Bonanzo said:
Risk/Reward means taking a situation that is risky that may lead to a reward. Using your advantage to attempt to punish/start a blockstring against a beowulf that can arm is risky leading to a reward. Im not sure if you just wanted to define risk/reward for me but if you wanted to refute the inverse existing in what I said sure that is my counter sticking to that definition.

You mention beast of gehenna and its lower cost yet and how it was used to be safe but you also in the same post mention how it is not similar because you also mention how this whole concept is different because you spend two meter.

Super-Safe DHC is brought up because a lot of characters can do it. It being new was just a figure of speech to let it be known many characters can do it. It is relevant to the conversation having it be a transition piece.

You already mentioned what happens when you arm without a safe DHC.

The whole DHC argument on the damage you can do with a big super into a safe DHC that combo's could have literally any character with a high damage low hit scaling super. Like bigband/painwheel fits there just as well after a frametrap ssj.

The risk reward here is relevant but what I was trying to point out the whole time with the first line of my last post was that it does work the opposite way.

If you make a risk as the defending character you can be rewarded counter-play exists.

Also "If the risk/reward here isn't relevant, especially as a frame-trap mixup after a minus, yet unpunishable move, then I don't think we are playing fighting games right now." is not applicable because I mention in my very first sentence of my last post that it is.

EDIT: I should also address your last statement. That sure this case may exist and in my belief it goes both ways on the risk-reward assessment chart however, outside of the frametrap scenario being minus after blitzer is not really a positive so if for some reason you cannot arm (lack of meter) or have no safe DHC available I believe the situation shifts to favor the defender heavily.
Did you read this before you posted it? I don't think you did.
 
? How is that even something to say when you have a debate/argument that is definitely not applicable?

EDIT: To clarify you are not addressing my argument but rather whether or not I have read said argument? That is not proper debate etiquette.
 
Guys, I didn't mean for this to derail the thread and start an argument. I (really do!) enjoy the BeoWulf talk, but starting a fuss in the beta thread isn't my goal and I'm really sorry.
 
I feel like I'm walking into a trap but

Risk/Reward is used to describe how risky an action is and how much reward you get out of the mentioned risk.

Raw arm super is high risk, potentially high reward. Raw arm super with a safe DHC that can convert if it hits is Low Risk, high reward. Resources used aren't really part of the risk/reward unless stated.
 
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whens val double jump/airdash buff after bypass
jk, there are more important things to be discussed
 
On a slightly more silly note, what if the ant (Peacock's c.mk when canceled quickly) did something? Maybe dealing a tiny bit of damage or maybe just tripping the opponent. Hitting low would probably be too cute but I dunno, just a fun thought.
 
severine said:
hey what if bella lvl3 took meter before the flash.



also on this topic. would it be really difficult to implement xrd-like 'switch block on 1st/2nd hit' as an option.

hi sorry im quoting myself. yes i know the second one is out of context but it's in regards to training mode stuff sorry sorry.
 
no ants for peacock give ants to fukua
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
On a slightly more silly note, what if the ant (Peacock's c.mk when canceled quickly) did something? Maybe dealing a tiny bit of damage or maybe just tripping the opponent. Hitting low would probably be too cute but I dunno, just a fun thought.
Kara-cancels are a pain, the kind of execution barrier that's not supposed to be in SG. It's cute as a purely cosmetic easter egg, but as soon as you make it actually do something it'll just be a headache to a lot of players.
 
missingno said:
Kara-cancels are a pain, the kind of execution barrier that's not supposed to be in SG. It's cute as a purely cosmetic easter egg, but as soon as you make it actually do something it'll just be a headache to a lot of players.
Wait really? Because I've tried to spam kara canceled c.mk into projectiles lately against some players when I'm pretty much guaranteed the game and it isn't that hard. It just makes Peacock stutter all her projectiles. If not the ant, then maybe the pie from her s.mp on whiff =p. I know I've brought this up a long while back, but the idea of the foe staggering or slipping from stepping on the splatted pie is hilarious.
 
can we like make it so when i do a dash move as parasoul or i move forward i dont get a charge move?
Many times i try to do dash cr.LK and somehow get Distraction
 
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SonicFox5000 said:
can we like make it so when i do a dash move as parasoul or i move forward i dont get a charge move?
Many times i try to do dash cr.LK and somehow get Distraction
a lot of people like to do things like dash shot though idk
 
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RemiKz said:
I feel like I'm walking into a trap but

Risk/Reward is used to describe how risky an action is and how much reward you get out of the mentioned risk.

Raw arm super is high risk, potentially high reward. Raw arm super with a safe DHC that can convert if it hits is Low Risk, high reward. Resources used aren't really part of the risk/reward unless stated.


How can people not know what risk versus reward is?
 
SonicFox5000 said:
can we like make it so when i do a dash move as parasoul or i move forward i dont get a charge move?
Many times i try to do dash cr.LK and somehow get Distraction

dash shot tho ;_;
 
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Blocks are a perfectly legitimate way to measure things in SG. Turn on the Grid in Training Mode. That's why it's there.
 
I was pretty sure it was a hyperbolic statement referring to city blocks, but what do I know?
 
So...when Fukua has a shadow set up
then she got frozen by Valentine's counter super
She can just release the shadow at anytime during frozen to ruin whatever Val's doing
Is she supposed to be able to do that?
 
Mike_Z said:
Listing her shortcomings without acknowledging her strengths doesn't help, though. If she went down to regular damage range then it's somewhat more relevant? She's heavily tipped toward risk/reward as it is. I'm up for improving c.LK as AA and c.MP as a confirm but like...that's about it?
These would both be really nice changes for Peacock.
 
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Hey @Mike_Z, this kept happening to me yesterday. If I call H A-train assist and land a grab with Weight of Anubis, my opponent would sometimes slide under me and i couldn't convert off it. This only happens with this assist, and I'm not sure what's causing it because it doesn't always happen. It happens on para, double, beo, peacock, filia and probably the everyone else.

 
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What is this ant thing people are talking about?
 
MegamanDS said:
What is this ant thing people are talking about?
In Peacock's cMK she spawns an ant and then burns it with her laser.
If you cancel out of cMK into a special before she burns it, it lives and walks away.
 
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Liam said:
In Peacock's cMK she spawns an ant and then burns it with her laser.
If you cancel out of cMK into a special before she burns it, it lives and walks away.
Can't forget that you can move around and burn the ant as it's walking across the stage even after having spared it.
 
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Cerebella's cat should be able to play with/eat Peacock's ant.

On a more serious note, would be interesting to see Peacock with some slightly better anti-air options. One of my friends mains Peacock so it would be interesting to see how that would affect my circle of casual scrubs.
 
If the ant does anything (especially a low or stagger property), she'll have yet another option for M/H Teleport besides L/M/H George/ Assist
 
the cat should squash every ant with the earthquake stomp it has in the Indivisible prototype
 
You could still do button dash shots as parasoul, but id rather it not mess with my forward inputs lol
 
Umm so from my current experiences ,Robo seems to outdamage Peacock even in a 3 v 2 ratio when it comes to projectile wars. There's something wrong with how the character who's sole schitck is about keepaway, losing keepaway battles against another character. It's nearly as bad a matchup as Peacock vs Beowulf where she can't press buttons from anywhere that isn't fullscreen.
 
Is there any way fortunes head can fly off in a different direction after she's snapped instead of staying in the same place? i dont see how its fair that after i get double snapped i lose a character and then fortune comes in with no meterless defensive option on top of taking extra damage and being potentially tod'd
 
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