Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

[Yaya]

Assist calls during stance charge is everything I ever hoped for it to be.

 

[Receita Federal]

Wait, is c.LK changed or not? Or is WK not LK and actually a secret 7th/8th button I didn't know about?

Also, do the throw changes mean conversions off of Bypass assist are ded? Pls say no pls.

arent dead but they eat otg now. you have to hit the chars before they fall with beam(before you could hit them in the bounce and still convert)

 

[Cadenza]

M egret stays out for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long. The man don't even salute and take the bullets for the princess. He's fired!

Not sure about M shadow being lowered that much. I think making it like how it was when it was first implemented would be fine.

Robo's ground throws *Looks* so weird and *Looks* as silly as big band's j.mk. I do not play robo so i won't comment much on her stuff.

That's all.

 

[dekillsage]

THESE PEACOCK CHANGES YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Spoiler

 

[KhaosMuffins]

"I wonder if the headless change allows me to save OTG on Bella. Oh shit it does! Oh shit... I could always do that."

 

[Receita Federal]

As an assist, loading poison counts as using your assist for the current combo.
As an assist, the loading pose is always the same length, which is 11f longer than a Lv3 load on point.

Welp

hey its better than nothing. i used it just for a quick set and it already feels better than every other assist option val had.

 

[Mike_Z]

can eliza get p>k priority. i realize that doing a clean DP will never give you a summon but it would also be a nice QoL thing.

@ um... any other Eliza players?
This means Horace + assist or Albus + assist is no longer possible, so I want more than one voice here...

As an assist, loading poison counts as using your assist for the current combo.
As an assist, the loading pose is always the same length, which is 11f longer than a Lv3 load on point.
Welp

Sorry you wanted the OP version where every combo ends in poison. :^P THAT wasn't happening anyway.

Wait, is c.LK changed or not? Or is WK not LK and actually a secret 7th/8th button I didn't know about?

Fixed in both places. It was WK long ago and the scripts are still called that. :^P

Also, do the throw changes mean conversions off of Bypass assist are ded? Pls say no pls.

Throw conversions off the vast majority of assists are ded. That's the goal, here, just to be clear. :^)

The anti air things should be useful but have yet to test them in a good set just yet. I do have one thing I'm curious about though, is it a bad thing if c.mp had more hitstun? I'm guessing it's based on distance to an aerial opponent, but at times it links into s.hk and other times (most of the time) it doesn't.

Ooooh, that's that thing where it doesn't actually combo (c.MP->s.HK vs standing doesn't work) but if they land on the last frame of air hitstun it adds one frame before recovery, so it works.
Yeah, I can make that just combo all the time.
(I'm a little sad about basically having to ignore the entire rest of your post, since Peacock vs Robo and vs Brass has ways to deal with both that you're not using. Well... :^)

Robo-Fortune joins Parasoul in the "Cannot hit the opponent on block more than once while still being +" club.

L Shot is plus on block. And +0 is safe, not to mention far away. But yeah, her turn ends earlier.
Thing is, Robo can cancel anything into s.HP at any point if she smells a reversal.

 

[Lawnalog]

I'm really liking the new lenny change and how it doesn't get in the way of my zoning. I also think L teleport is cool.

 

[skull person]

L Shot is plus on block. And +0 is safe, not to mention far away.

Didn't say +0 is unsafe though.

You say "L Shot is + on block" as if that's her solution to the problem of can't poke twice and be + (at least that's how I'm seeing that?), but I don't think that's makes much sense in a practical application.

I guess I did say "hit them twice" but I guess I meant more "practical poke in neutral"

Diving into Parasoul strings to explain a little:

Spoiler

Realistic (holy smokes my C key popped out of my keyboard) ly you will be able to use L Shot after 1 light normal when you have your back to a corner so you can charge while being in range, or it's a counter poke because you were already sitting still.
(Or from charging during a jump in but you can already confirm off that.)

sLP > L Shot
sLK > L Shot
cLK > L Shot
cLP > L Shot

Are all unsafe to PBGC jab if you back is in the corner or an assist is out, and they are all unsafe to PBGC long ranged punish option such as Orb.
Orb spawns past the super flash window so you can't Level 3 / Bikes.
Only sLK sLK (-5) is safe against this.

Times where L Shot would be useful is midscreen vs characters without orb like punishes, but you can't dash sLP sLP and have time to build a charge for L Shot after while it's still being a true blockstring.
I can sometimes get sLK sLK L Shot if I button forward dash but that's a 1F window and kind of risky since you might get sMP if you're bad.

That's a lot of things to worry about, yikes.

So like, yeah, L Shot is + and cool but I don't think that solves the specific case I was talking about where everyone else can just do light light if they want to be safe and in a good spot.

I really just meant "Robo and Parasoul share this thing now" and not a lot more.

Kinda off topic for the new patch, and maybe non of this makes sense.
Makes sense in my head at least!!!

 

[havick9]

@ um... any other Eliza players?
This means Horace + assist or Albus + assist is no longer possible, so I want more than one voice here...

making this harder to do or impossible doesn't sound too bad

Spoiler

 

[Yaya]

I'm really enjoying the Squigly QoL changes. One thing I'd like to see added, purely from a "I think this could have some cool synergy" standpoint, is being able to choose Seria versions of Squigly's specials as assists by inputting QCB on assist select. It would work a lot like Robo's Hidden Missiles assist where she's vulnerable for a long period of time during the startup before eventually doing the move, but I'd love to see what people could do with Seria Tremolo, Seria Center Stage, or even Seria Silver Chord assist.

 

[MegamanDS]

Here's my thoughts on the Robo-Fortune changes:

All of this is a huge dent in her dash up pressure game.
She gets one attempt to get started, and if she is blocked her turn should be over much quicker.
.

Even more nerfs to her rush down game.... I'm dying over here.

I don't mind the zoning nerfs (damage changes to beams and such and frame changes) and I can deal with s. fp vacuum hurting her on block even more now, but the throw and the scale on starting a combo with fp? That is unnecessary in my opinion. Throws are already scaled on followup and she can't combo on it without a proper assist or burning meter, no need to nerf it more. I'd rather have her air throw nerfed and have it hard knock down or throw full screen (well I don't want either throw nerfed but if one has to go...)

Not a fan of the throw or 80% scale. Not at all...

-------

Thanks for minor buffs to Fukua. :)


EDIT:

And Fukua shadow following the screen... is it working? I don't see it staying on screen and when I do relaunch combos, it looks like the same distance as before in the vids I posted.

 

[Yomabuddy]

[QUOTE="missingno, post: 377048, member: 11973"Also, do the throw changes mean conversions off of Bypass assist are ded? Pls say no pls.[/QUOTE]
They're too far to pick up from OTG now.

--------------------------------------------------

I hate the throw change as well. I do not agree with turning Robo into a boring zoning character that has to always end up zoning now because her offense is bleh. I said this before but the reason I liked Robo was she was a character who could zone for a bit but could turn it into some sort of an offensive advantage. Now she (arguably) has better zoning but her offensive advantage is really not good at all and if she gets a hit she does not that much damage.

I find retail Robo way more fun because I am actually forced to not play the neutral game one dimensionally and am rewarded with damage or head setup for space control into more damage once I get a hit. Beta Robo is far more boring because my reward for catching someone with blocked missiles or any positional advantage is really not any good and I'm forced to try and rack my damage up from zoning.

If she's meant to be just another zoner then I guess these changes make sense but as bad as people say retail Robo is, I would take retail Robo over current beta Robo in a heartbeat.

--------------------------------

EDIT: I love these headless changes and think that the head on changes are absolutely a-ok. Makes her far more interesting and fun as a character.

 

[Receita Federal]

They're too far to pick up from OTG now.

i got it consistently with cmp chp

 

[gllt]

Will bella's point/hurtboxes ever get looked at again

https://twitter.com/x/status/772903198726193152

Just looking for a yes/no since she still feels wonky compared to the rest of the cast sometimes

 

[Yomabuddy]

i got it consistently with cmp chp

Do you make the Bypass hit OTG or normal? I couldn't make it hit not hit OTG, and when I got it from OTG I couldn't land run c.MP. This was against Filia. I probably suck though.

 

[Mike_Z]

making this harder to do or impossible doesn't sound too bad

It's not unblockable, any time a command throw happens it makes the air-unblockable stuff not unblockable for like 30f. Jump later and you block allatime.

being able to choose Seria versions of Squigly's specials as assists by inputting QCB on assist select

Very difficult to implement, billions of other things that need doing instead. Not happening.

Even more nerfs to her rush down game.... I'm dying over here.

::looks the other way::

Throws are already scaled on followup and she can't combo on it without a proper assist or burning meter

That's...still exactly true? Just the list of possible assists got smaller, which I have no problem with.

And Fukua shadow following the screen... is it working? I don't see it staying on screen and when I do relaunch combos, it looks like the same distance as before in the vids I posted.

Yep, it works. "The screen" limits are not the visible screen, it's the zoomed-out possible screen. I TOLD you I didn't think it would do what you thought, dude.

Will bella's point/hurtboxes ever get looked at again
Just looking for a yes/no since she still feels wonky compared to the rest of the cast sometimes

If you give me replays, maybe?
The first example is stand vs crouch, you can do that on everyone.

 

[havick9]

any time a command throw happens it makes the air-unblockable stuff not unblockable for like 30f.

sorry if I'm doing something wrong here

 

[MegamanDS]

Yep, it works. "The screen" limits are not the visible screen, it's the zoomed-out possible screen. I TOLD you I didn't think it would do what you thought, dude.

I guess I visualized it differently? I thought I would see the shadow on the screen at all times. Umm best example I got is the sun in SMB3 that you are trying to run from that swoops down on you.

 

[PME]

*breathes in*
*breathes out*

After much quality time in the lab, I'm okay with head-on's damage and scaling nerfs (I'm missing out between 3-400 damage on my usual combo routes), and hopefully, everyone else will finally be okay with it too. As for headless, "HP button to be pressed-and-released within 22f, or released-and-pressed-again within 11f" to get Zoom or Headbutt is just right in practice. Sneeze is also much more useful in situations where I would want to have used it before. The extra vertical height and invulnerability on the head up until the first active last active frame helps a lot in new situations such as when Doubles superjump j.HP towards me, I can Sneeze, and the Sneeze will neither not reach them, nor lose out to the j.HP. The extra buffer on head inputs is also great! It was so hard to properly time Sneeze on incoming while still trying to block and be ready to tech a throw. The old height also couldn't do much about superjump/doublejump left/right mixups on incoming.

About Robo. The chip feels right, and it's perfectly fine to lose out on the extra damage on CH. I think these are the final L/M lasers we want. I can't say much about her rushdown as of right now because most of this time was spent on Fortune, but I can say for sure, that I'm gonna have a harder time (actually, if I even 'want to be') looking for a spot where I want to start my offensive play during neutral. +6 on [s.MP] was definitely a lot but... +0? I wanna put more time into Robo again before I can say for sure, but heads are gonna be even more important for her than before this patch to stay safe, furthering her to incline towards a keepaway style.

I wanna hit up more matches to be sure about Robo, and the lab to see if I find any potential new bugs that came as a by-product from the headless changes.

Spoiler

 

[Mike_Z]

I guess I visualized it differently? I thought I would see the shadow on the screen at all times. Umm best example I got is the sun in SMB3 that you are trying to run from that swoops down on you.

Yes, I know what you meant. Nothing else in the game uses that, though, so I don't have tech for it. And given the amount of other stuff there is to do, this is what you get, or nothin'.
Looks like nothin', since this didn't really help...?

sorry if I'm doing something wrong here

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH Albus didn't do it, because he's the only projectile that does a throw. Neat. Fixing that!
Try with any other command grab and you'll block the A-Train easy.
[edit] Fixed here.

As for headless, "HP button to be pressed-and-released within 22f, or released-and-pressed-again within 11f" to get Zoom or Headbutt is just right in practice.

I might be a terrible theory-based game designer, as every Robo player thinks right now, but when I design by feel I can do it pretty well. :^)

invulnerability on the head up until the first active frame

Up until the last active frame, that is.

 

[TheGamaniac]

I noticed that in the word document for the beta, there was a mention of Fukua's clones doing 600 damage... but after that was listed (i think), she got the new M.Clone, which is doing the original 750 damage. Seems fitting for what seems to be the combo/range variant of the 3 clones, but smells like a potential oversight so i'm bringing it up anyways.

 

[MegamanDS]

Yes, I know what you meant. Nothing else in the game uses that, though, so I don't have tech for it. And given the amount of other stuff there is to do, this is what you get, or nothin'.
Looks like nothin', since this didn't really help...?
.

Nvm, there is situational combos I tried that it did come in handy, so please leave for a bit to keep experimenting ^_^ <3

 

[havick9]

Try with any other command grab and you'll block the A-Train easy.

okay, I tried them all and only squigly's was unblockable

 

[Calexe]

Eh... My english is disappointing

It's possible to make Fukua's s.LK not whiff on Fortune/Painwheel?

Spoiler: Example

 

[Shuffleupagus]

Just posting to express how godlike it is being able to move Fortune's head now.

 

[Fumako]

Not gameplay related suggestion:

Can we have those "secret assists" be listed in the respective character's command list?
I say secret because I only recently (and by accident) found out that you can even set head moves as an assist.

 

[mcpeanuts]

Peacock changes look pretty cool, I'll give them a shot when I get home.

 

[KTFS]

I guess the message from this patch to Robo players is "Man, you should zone" @@

The Squigly change is very interesting: you can now call assist during the stance frames before the move comes out.
It's like you can call assist during a special move now!
This half granted my long time wish.
I was trying to somehow put a Mortuary Drop assist into a Squigly combo
because that command grab take a million years to finish and I can get charges.
Now I can do it!

Spoiler

But you need to be in the corner or have K charge to do it.
The only thing keeping the uncharged Silver Chord from making it is that there's no collision box when getting hit grabbed
and Valentine would just go right through...so close. Still, it's pretty OP.

I wish Beowulf really get those hype changes now...

 

[alexpi]

RE: Eliza priority

I like it as is. I like getting Goku + Assist.

 

[Saske]

@ um... any other Eliza players?
This means Horace + assist or Albus + assist is no longer possible, so I want more than one voice here...

oh my god yes P>K please

 

[gllt]

I'm on the P>K side even though I put a lot of effort into nailing true DP to make sure I get DP+assist.
But I kind of want to hear what @alexpi is using horus+assist for before I nail in my vote or anything..

 

[Cadenza]

Could holding shadows auto correct when you releass them perhaps?

 

[alexpi]

horus + assist during block strings. For a little while, I used Squigly's c.hp + horus. With my current assist setup, it's less important so it won't break my heart if it favors DP

 

[fenster]

On Peacock, I was wondering if we could do things about linking off of midrange L georges easier. Could we get a small hitbox increase on sLK (which is already rarely used aside from a couple specific things as far as people have shown me) to match the art which would help with long range confirms off of L George and likely not affect much else given sLK's rare use? Peacock not being able to confirm off of max distance L George is fine, but being able to hit from slightly further/easier would feel a lot better since I've encountered a lot of awkward times of using L George to stuff a Bad close approach but not far enough to confirm so it feels wasted.

That and/or one of those Link Buffers that the rest of the cast seems to be getting? The link isn't that bad, but most of the other ones weren't either so I figured I may as well ask.

@ um... any other Eliza players?
This means Horace + assist or Albus + assist is no longer possible, so I want more than one voice here...

It does get rid of some Horus + assist things, but I don't really mind the loss myself, so if others really want it, I say go for it.

If she's meant to be just another zoner then I guess these changes make sense but as bad as people say retail Robo is, I would take retail Robo over current beta Robo in a heartbeat.

This this this this this

Just give me old robo + cMK fix + sHP pulling in so it doesn't drop combos anymore.

Or, at least I should say, New Robo is strong and fine and stuff, but I had more fun with Old robo in having to balance Midrange, which isn't as good/rewarding with current Robo. Outside of the faster sHP that is which is very nice for that.

 

[zeknife]

- You can now call assists during stances! This means QCT+assist gives you assist plus the stance attack, and if your inputs are good, while holding a stance you can call assists. :^) All other cancels should still work the same way, I hope. Please inform me if something feels strange!

This does seem to have added at least one inconsistency
In retail, if you hold one button and then qcf tap or hold any other button, you will get an immediate stance cancel
In the new beta, if you hold a button and then do the qcf + press and hold other button during hitstop (not on whiff), you will hold the stance instead of getting a cancel, if you are using buttons of different types (P+K).
Releasing the second button during hitstop it will still cancel, and using this technique with P+P or K+K works as before.

The main problem is canceling out of s.lk since it has very low hitstop, making it harder to release the 2nd button within hitstop, so you might end up getting a special move instead. Not a huge deal I guess.


Also I'll casually suggest again letting Squigly hold and cancel stance assists on alpha counter, it would be consistent with other moves that behave differently as assists compared to on point, they did lose the beloved autocorrect

 

[Dagwood]

I agree P > K for eliza

and, I think Parasoul's m egret is pretty bad now... especially with peacock getting those buffs

Also a Suggestion: Something I've always wanted for awhile, is the ability to select Blind Pick when i make a lobby
It's especially annoying in online tournaments, Since i play several teams and like to counter pick, It feels like you're at a disadvantage if you pick first. But waiting for the other person to pick feels jerk-ish too.

 

[Receita Federal]

Do you make the Bypass hit OTG or normal? I couldn't make it hit not hit OTG, and when I got it from OTG I couldn't land run c.MP. This was against Filia. I probably suck though.

normal. i've mentioned before that hitting otg with it doesnt let you confirm anymore.

 

[MegamanDS]

Could holding shadows auto correct when you releass them perhaps?

Reach for the stars kid. I like it

 

[BlueFeena]

In response to Eliza button priority:

If I understand this correctly, isn't this about being able to do lazy inputs and still get a DP? In Retail the other night, I was able to do:

CQF + Assist = Servant with Assist
DP + Assist = DP with Assist
QCB + Assist = Sekhmet with Assist

... if I understand this correctly, then wouldn't changes to the button priority make it impossible to do Servants + Assists along with Sekhmet + Assist? That seems like a really bad tradeoff just for being able to do lazy inputs; I would prefer the option to either DP / Servant when I want and Sekhmet + Assist seems far more scary than Osiris Spiral + Assist. In the button priority thread, the only real effect I see this having is being able to mash DP on wakeup and get DP + Assist; this might help her defense but I'm not sure about neutral. Put me down for "leave it alone." As always, weight my opinion for what it's worth since every other Eliza posting here is better than I am.