Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

[Dagwood]

As frustrating as it is to have tears accidentally mess up throw conversions, I feel like it'd seem wrong to just lose your tears for successfully landing a throw.

It's really a minor annoyance at most. the example that Sage posted is more than enough for me to say it shouldn't be changed.

 

[alexpi]

I like para's tears working as-is with throws. Especially since I have throw specific tear resets.

Also, the Eliza v Double matchup feels horrible for the Eliza side. Not Triple-Bomb-Peacock vs Parasoul bad, but really bad

 

[gllt]

Why though?

I know if I do it SUPER FAST it works.
I know it works if she crouches.
I know I can BIAD jLK.

But why? Why just her? Are those the reasons why?

 

[Cadenza]

having played eliza and double.


I think eliza's worst matchup is double. I don't even think she can crouch under L gun and she is quite tall. add in double's j.hp and j.hk, it makes it hard to contest double's neutral space.

c.mk goes under l gun while moving forward and you got DP and new pothole summon(WOA).

 

[Sydoh]

Facts. Has SO MUCH better stuff going for her. Just gotta actually think in neutral rather send out a move that is >>>>> all other moves in neutral in the game. New fukua m shadow IMO gives her so much better utility than old m shadow. Just apply it now.
EDIT: P.S. Two fireballs would actually break her

I don't mind losing old Shadow M, but I do miss being able to actually zone with her, hence the suggestion.

The gap left by the loss of old shadow can be filled by you doing 1) J.lp 2)cr.hp as an anti air 3) holding a shadow

Except, she always had j.LP, 2HP, and I don't really care about holding shadows (hold shadow > dash block is not my idea of fun neutral game for Fukua), so all that change did was make me change how I have to play the character, which I don't agree with.

I would rather her not be able to charge shadows and give her 2 fireballs instead.

 

[keninblack]

Am I the only that thinks the original 8 just need to be left alone? No buffs or nerfs?

PW got the buffs she needed, Fortune is an even better puppet character because I guess she needed that, Peacock got her QOL changes, I think we're good. I don't understand why Double, Bella, Val and all of them need to change they seem to be doing fine as of lately.

I really think what we need to be focusing on is the DLC characters.

What are we doing with Squigly? Whats going on with Big Band? Is Eliza going to keep that sewer cover grab thing Is Eliza's lv 1 super still going to take 11 minutes? What is Fukua even going to be? What happened to focusing on giving Beowulf a reason to gain hype? Is Robo a zoner or both or rushdown?

The DLC characters are what need fine tuning because they have had less time to develop. I'm just growing tired of the "Hey I mean fuck it might as well bring this up just because I want it, I have no idea if anyone else wants it, or if its beneficial to the game at all but I mean hey might as well ask." I just don't see it as productive.

I really think retail was a really good version of the game, outside of a few fine tuning tweaks and QOL changes for a couple of characters, the game couldn't get much better.

But here we are with open beta, everyone just wants to throw ideas out against the wall and see if any of it will stick. Regardless of if the character really needs it or not, or if it really matters if they have it or not, or if the character is struggling/thriving enough to really need it.

 

[Cadenza]

What happened to focusing on giving Beowulf a reason to gain hype?

Still in the works. Just wait.

I do agree with the original 8 not being touched any further.

 

[Pickles]

Why though?

I know if I do it SUPER FAST it works.
I know it works if she crouches.
I know I can BIAD jLK.

But why? Why just her? Are those the reasons why?

not gonna go through the trouble to make a video but fortune iad j.lk works the same way, yeah it can sometimes work if you do it super fast and yeah it'll work on crouching but bella is the only one (i think? at the very least its the only one i've ever noticed it on) whyyyyy

edit:

hold shadow > dash block is not my idea of fun neutral game for Fukua

doesn't seem like a good neutral game either since held shadows go away if fukua blocks. you really have to approach with the shadow

 

[Gelato]

Having read how important it is for other Soul players to keep the tear stuff intact I think I would agree. It's not really something that needs to or should be changed since it's been the way she has worked for so long already, so I'd rather work out the solutions to the problem myself rather than naively suggest a big change like that.

 

[Masqman]

Alright so this is sort of bugging me but I guess if it doesn't change i'm alright. Is it possible to change dynamo so that it will hit the opponent if they are in the middle of a move or something when it crosses up. Reasoning:

The reasons why it was changed to my understanding is that previously it was silly considering the things she could do and what she got off of it, especially considering it was nigh unblockable in a lot of cases. However, the way it is now even if I try to punish someone jumping up and pushing a button sometimes in just whiffs because that button was technically a crossup. Also, sometimes when I do Magic>cerecopter>Dynamo it will randomly flip me making it whiff and now they get a free punish. Normally (i.e. retail) I didn't really care cause it kept hitting and in some cases, I could DHC the right way and keep going/keep them in the corner. But now it's like *welp rip me*.

Second, this type of crossup reversal thing happens with at least 2 other characters who can do similar if not more damage than her from this.

Beowulf Arm - Not asking for a nerf but crossup arm does exist and I've hit people with it multiple times leading to damage and a pin.

Band - He has a literal setup for this that I have yet to see a single person to this day block, even other Big band players who do this setup. Leading to (with the right team) Raw SSJ + conversion.

I suggest possibly having the crossup hit be blockable both directions that would allow the opponent to block it, do pbgc's etc, and still allow them to get w/e punish they wanted (I'm not sure how difficult this would be but I've seen blockable both directions thing in other games.)

or have if the opponent is currently performing a move or something along those lines (hitstun/whiffing I don't know what the check would be.), it would hit but not otherwise. Especially since the issue was more blocking the move in that situation rather than getting punished for pushing something.

If it doesn't get changed I guess it would be ok, but that seems rather weird that someone could be throwing out button (especially in regards to double, Eliza maneuvering hurt boxes) has a super just outright whiff.

Does anyone else have this issue? any thoughts as to a solution if is it an issue to most people.

I think I have a vid on my channel about random Cere Dynamo flip thing but if not I can make one when I get to my actual house and can record it. I know it happened with Eliza, Robo, Painwheel and squigs. It happened once with double but unfortunately, I don't have a recording for that cause I didn't know how to turn on recordings back then.
~note Cereflip also happens retail but dynamo nerf makes this a hella problem now.

 

[MegamanDS]

I don't mind losing old Shadow M, but I do miss being able to actually zone with her, hence the suggestion.


Except, she always had j.LP, 2HP, and I don't really care about holding shadows (hold shadow > dash block is not my idea of fun neutral game for Fukua), so all that change did was make me change how I have to play the character, which I don't agree with.

I would rather her not be able to charge shadows and give her 2 fireballs instead.

I agree. Keeping someone out became much harder without not only losing m shadow, but shadows are now able to get hit out by point/assist. Her only zoning move left is a fireball and 1 miss of a fireball makes Fukua left open with no assist. I played countless matches now trying to use shadow holds as a defensive move and they get hit out or don't go out far enough to actually do anything. And I know it's not just me. A second fireball even with restrictions might help her zoning game a bit. I said this before and I'll say it again... Fukua doesn't feel like a rusher or a zoner anymore. I feel like her gameplay revolves solely around cr. mp cr. hp xx shadow hold reset and nothing else.


Yes the 2 Gods of SG are claiming these new shadows are the bees knees, but I guess I just haven't seen them play to see what they are doing differently than me against situations I am placed in.

 

[Zidiane]

I wouldn't be opposed to simply trying out small QoL things as I don't feel she needs any overhauls or noticeable buffs.

Did you have any specific ideas you think would be good testing other than copter into Dynamo (which I do agree would be soooo nice), or ones I mentioned that might be worth trying? As far as "things that people wouldn't notice but would feel nice", I think these fit the bill:

Spoiler

retract s.mk 3 frames sooner. Already pulls back hurtbox a good deal, but leaves a bit on ground for 3 frames that gets hit by long c.lk's like Beo and Eliza

minor shift of s.mk so it hits Squigly c.lk (it's like a pixel off from hitting her)

buffer after lnl hits to make it easier to take advantage of being plus

earlier projectile invincibility on Kanchou (currently 7 frames of startup vulnerability iirc)

Pummel Horse, c.mp being consistent, especially vs characters like Painwheel

c.mp hitting otg consistently (like described here)

Lower Pummel Horse hitbox to connect OTG consistently. Cerebella can land Pummel Horse after ground throw midscreen already (proof). This works easily (4f link I think) midscreen on everyone but Peacock, Valentine, and Parasoul, cause she throws them further for some reason (she throws Peacock a LOT further than any other character), but they can be OTG'd in the corner (or with c.mk, s.hp, Pummel Horse). Cerebella is the only one that can't be OTG Pummel Horsed in this way, regardless of where on the screen. I believe two or three of the characters cannot be Pummel Horsed after normal grab on the first frame, I don't remember which ones, and a character's back fall (OTG state after Kanchou) are much more inconsistent to hit this way (only four or five characters get hit like this). Having OTG Pummel Horse be consistent would be nice.

c.lk into c.mk is more universal after MGR (still can never get it on Painwheel, and I think Zid said it dropped often on another character?)

Peacock is the other one.

 

[skull person]

earlier projectile invincibility on Kanchou (currently 7 frames of startup vulnerability iirc)[/spoiler]

Already addressed.
It's projectile invincible from frame 3.

c.mp hitting otg consistently (like described here)

Already addressed.
cMP is the example used:

"Increase the height of Parasoul, Fortune, Robo-Fortune, Squigly, Peacock, Filia/Fukua, and other applicable characters’ on-the-ground hitboxes so that things which OTG most characters will also OTG those characters (Cerebella c.MP)"

she throws Peacock a LOT further than any other character

Universal issue, Peacock comes out at the wrong height.
More characters than Bella have issues with this.

Check the patch notes and you can see the buffs Cerebella already has.

 

[Zidiane]

Already addressed.

When did those happen? I don't see any beta update... are these changes live?

Universal issue, Peacock comes out at the wrong height.
More characters than Bella have issues with this.

Wasn't asking to fix it, just noting it.

 

[skull person]

When did those happen? I don't see any beta update... are these changes live?

Check the patch notes and you can see the buffs Cerebella already has.

Patch notes are implemented changes. (The title is called "SG2E Current Beta Changes")

Click on the Cerebella section, and then click on the general section for the OTG notes.

EDIT: I apologize for coming off as a huge asshole.
The beta "suggestion" thread gets me a little upset sometimes.

 

[Zidiane]

I apologize for coming off as a huge asshole.
The beta "suggestion" thread gets me a little upset sometimes.

Don't sweat it. You're the mod, you decide how the thread goes. If you don't think suggestions have place here you can delegate them all to a separate thread. I don't know why that wasn't done already, tbh, but I'm just a poster here so idk nothin.

The only thing I'm asking right now is if the beta updated, because my beta didn't update and I don't see any notes in the steam community thing. It usually alerts users if there's been a change to the game.

 

[skull person]

Don't sweat it. You're the mod, you decide how the thread goes.

This isn't my thread, it's the communities.
Discussing any random change for any character is not against the rules.

The only thing I'm asking right now is if the beta updated, because my beta didn't update and I don't see any notes in the steam community thing. It usually alerts users if there's been a change to the game.

There has been no patch as of the last hour.

When I said it had been addressed, I meant it was addressed and already in the game.
If you check the patch notes that I linked, they are always up to date with the most recent changes because Mike edits the live document.

You can check both changes in there.

 

[Pickles]

Cerebella is the only one that can't be OTG Pummel Horsed in this way, regardless of where on the screen.

makes me feel a little better to know that even bella can't do some stuff because of stupid bella hurtboxes

edit: regarding other bella changes:

I'm just growing tired of the "Hey I mean fuck it might as well bring this up just because I want it, I have no idea if anyone else wants it, or if its beneficial to the game at all but I mean hey might as well ask." I just don't see it as productive.

just about sums up my thoughts. I apologize if I missed it but I haven't seen ANY justification for why bella NEEDS changes like s.mk being a better low crush or buffer after lnl or some of the more wild stuff like faster lp/mp lnl or glide cancel or moving around grab bag (what????) other than "other chars are getting changes why not her too". I (and it seems like a lot of other people) am getting kinda tired of people just throwing out changes just to see what happens. Like Liam said, if someone wants to suggest a change it REALLY should be accompanied by justification for why she needs that change. None of the changes I've seen mentioned for bella seem like things she really struggles without having (zid mentioned c.mk covering a very specific small gap outside of her c.lk range that MGR doesn't cover anymore but I have a very hard time believing that that gap isn't either a) covered by one of bella's MANY other tools or b) easily avoided by positioning better, im sure every character in this game has dead zones in neutral if you look hard enough).

 

[Zidiane]

This isn't my thread, it's the communities.
Discussing any random change for any character is not against the rules.

Ehhh... well... technically, as I see it, this thread was intended to be about the patch in beta, with Mike stating at first that he talked to specific people about specific things. So, talking about things not in that patch could (should?) fit into another thread. idk *shrug* just feels like keeping this for just actual changes and another for requests (that may or may not get seen) would be better.

If you check the patch notes that I linked, they are always up to date with the most recent changes because Mike edits the live document.

Was mostly curious what the changes are since the latest patch. None of the new changes are denoted with that *NEW* tag that I assumed was given to new edits/edits since the most recent patch.

As far as the actual changes for Bella: the OTG one will be super nice when it comes into play (which won't be often, but still), and the Kanchou one will probably help a good deal. It's hard to tell atm cause I can't play with it.

 

[skull person]

Was mostly curious what the changes are since the latest patch. None of the new changes are denoted with that *NEW* tag that I assumed was given to new edits/edits since the most recent patch.

Every new change is denoted with the *NEW* tag...

From the most recent patch:

- Getting crumpled in the corner no longer pulls certain characters out of the corner.
- M Clone bounce height returned to normal; after-slam disappearance still faster, to let her summon other shadows earlier.

In the document they have the *NEW* tag.

Check it with all the new changes in the most recent update.
They are all there and marked correctly.

 

[Burpinator]

I have a suggestion for a QoL change for making things easier for Liam, People who like to see things easier and this topic. You could have a template or form to request a change and if they can't fill in the thing out or don't do one when they make a suggestion it can be ignored.

Example

(Change Title): twist on Squigly stances

(What is the change): What if we have it where if you charge Dragon Breath OR Serpent's Tail, you can use the Seria version of a punch or kick move. And if they are both charged it means you could do 2 Punch or Kick Seria moves in a combo. (PS this isn't a change I'd actually want as I know this would be broken)

(Who does this affect Match up wise): Example

(Why does the character deserve this): Example

(etc you get what I mean the questions are a work in progress :P ): Example.

Then the posts under it are discussed. Or make a seperate topic specifically for (Possible Changes)[With the templates] and this topic is ONLY for discussing the messages that were posted in the (Possible Changes) topic. and when things are deems to stupid, wrong, already done, whatever the Change Form Message can be deleted so we have a nice clean list of forms of what changes people are thinking about.

Might also help those who are staying quiet about things being discussed here but want to throw out a suggestion or change but don't want to be put down or eaten out by the people who know the game and all its mechanics better then the suggestee making them feel stupid just because they don't happen to know everything.

 

[Masqman]

Did you have any specific ideas you think would be good testing other than copter into Dynamo (which I do agree would be soooo nice), or ones I mentioned that might be worth trying? As far as "things that people wouldn't notice but would feel nice", I think these fit the bill:

Spoiler

retract s.mk 3 frames sooner. Already pulls back hurtbox a good deal, but leaves a bit on ground for 3 frames that gets hit by long c.lk's like Beo and Eliza

minor shift of s.mk so it hits Squigly c.lk (it's like a pixel off from hitting her)

buffer after lnl hits to make it easier to take advantage of being plus

earlier projectile invincibility on Kanchou (currently 7 frames of startup vulnerability iirc)

Pummel Horse, c.mp being consistent, especially vs characters like Painwheel

c.mp hitting otg consistently (like described here)

Lower Pummel Horse hitbox to connect OTG consistently. Cerebella can land Pummel Horse after ground throw midscreen already (proof). This works easily (4f link I think) midscreen on everyone but Peacock, Valentine, and Parasoul, cause she throws them further for some reason (she throws Peacock a LOT further than any other character), but they can be OTG'd in the corner (or with c.mk, s.hp, Pummel Horse). Cerebella is the only one that can't be OTG Pummel Horsed in this way, regardless of where on the screen. I believe two or three of the characters cannot be Pummel Horsed after normal grab on the first frame, I don't remember which ones, and a character's back fall (OTG state after Kanchou) are much more inconsistent to hit this way (only four or five characters get hit like this). Having OTG Pummel Horse be consistent would be nice.

Peacock is the other one.

In the corner cMK>FHP>OTGless pommel horse is universal although difficult on a few character cause you have to delay FHP while still getting the charge time. Yes including Cerebella. I cannot get the throw combo to work on those 4 characters at all midscreen. And although I have not tested I'm fairly certain Throw>pommel works in the corner on bella I seem to remember that.


[edit] Idk how to quote properly
[edit2] ok so it doesn't work in the corner interesting, that being said 2MK>fHP>Pommel is hella easy on her.

in fact throw>buffer assist call+ Butt>cHP>jHP>sLPx2>cMK>fHP>Pommel is my conversion with her in the corner.

 

[Pickles]

I would rather instead of formatting suggestions better just have people consider suggestions more carefully. Don't suggest changes just because "oh this would be kinda nice i guess" but if you can give good justification for a change then you shouldn't have to make sure everything has the right headers or whatever, just make a good case for why your change would be important. A lot of parasoul players disagreed with him but as far as a suggestion goes I thought Gelato's suggestion about airthrow detonating tears was a good example; tears modifying throw followups is a noticeable aspect of the character, he backed up the suggestion with reasons for it and provoked a discussion about it. Even though people disagreed in the end I thought his suggestion was well thought out and presented. JD's post about val k>p priority was also really well done.

I guess a good way to put it, imo, would be "convince someone who doesn't play the char why the change would be good for the character AND the game"; two fireballs would obviously be very good for fukua but not for the game because it would make her broken af lol, and going back to the bella s.mk example I have not been convinced that that is really a weakness she has that needs fixing, while as someone who doesn't play para or val I can see why the airthrow change or p>k priority would be something people would want that could be good for the character.

 

[Zidiane]

s.mk being a better low crush

Just to give a visual, this is s.mk vs sq c.lk

Spoiler

I was asking to lower the hitbox a pixel to hit Squigly in this situation.

buffer after lnl

When mp/lp lnl hits, one of three things usually happen. Bella jumps, Bella whiffs a normal, or Bella gets hit. Despite being plus, not having a buffer means that it's not uncommon to miss the exact moment you can hit a button. Sometimes you hit a button early, which leaves you just doing nothing, or you hit it too late. If you hit it too late, you stand the risk of trading or getting counterhit, or you might try to pressure an upback but miss the preblock period entirely. This is a situation that doesn't have to happen as often as it does. That's why I listed it as a qol change, cause it would be super nice to not lnl into nothing despite trying to pressure but it wouldn't change what Bella is capable of doing.

glide cancel

Well, not that anyone wants to hear it, but here's the reason behind my glide cancel suggestion.

Jumping Bella is the least interesting situation she can be in. She's moving at you (or upwards or away), but she has nothing she can do other than Double Jump, and if she does that her trajectory is pretty much set. More or less, everything interesting that's going to happen is going to happen when she lands. If she glides, for any reason, most characters can just punish, especially with the appropriate assists. Full screen, where it's more usable a tool, the primary characters Bella would be struggling against full screen can stuff it or deal with it fairly easily. Parasoul can sniper shot, Peacock can lvl 1 item drop, Robo can just do air beams or even run under Bella. This all more or less removes the prospect of Glide from any match except in very specific, very small windows.

A glide cancel would help open up her air mobility the same way that runstops/Kanchou feint opens up her ground approaches. I feel like it would just make Bella more interesting to play and to watch, and it would help her to have a mobility option to use against someone who is doing nothing but running from her. She's very bad at catching up to people, which shows particularly well when she's at a life deficit and the opponent is comfortable sitting back.

If you don't think this is sufficient that's fine. Sure, everything could just boil down to a deadzone or an acceptable flaw. But... idk. It's whatever.

 

[dekillsage]

I really love peacock as she is right now. I do think being able to do bomb -> teleport and then another bomb -> teleport is a bit much sometimes.

 

[Lex]

So, there hasn't really been much discussion about Peacock's recent buffs other than a few Peacock mains saying "they're cool". I wanted to say that I really don't think that Peacock should be able to cancel her bomb tosses into teleport. This gives her some really good mixups with assists, makes throwing bombs in neutral much less risky and makes rushing down with Peacock better as she can call a bomb and then teleport into you with the bomb protecting her, similar to what she can do using assists but without the need for the assist. Given that her other buffs have given her a reasonably significant boost to her defense along with Lenny becoming a really good anti-zoning tool (EDIT: This change got reverted/toned down), surely she doesn't also need this given Peacock players' main complaint before was that her defence was too bad.

 

[Swiftfox-Dash]

So, there hasn't really been much discussion about Peacock's recent buffs other than a few Peacock mains saying "they're cool". I wanted to say that I really don't think that Peacock should be able to cancel her bomb tosses into teleport. This gives her some really good mixups with assists, makes throwing bombs in neutral much less risky and makes rushing down with Peacock better as she can call a bomb and then teleport into you with the bomb protecting her, similar to what she can do using assists but without the need for the assist. Given that her other buffs have given her a reasonably significant boost to her defense along with Lenny becoming a really good anti-zoning tool, surely she doesn't also need this given Peacock players' main complaint before was that her defence was too bad.

Hmm the teleport bomb thing might be pretty darn good I'll admit. I don't think i'm using it to it's fullest but it does seem like it could be very hard to pin down Peacock with certain assists as she covers her teleports with bomb. Personally I preferred the previous change with M teleport and the new punch move, but it is true these new changes give her mobility potential some extreme flexibility.

Though I do have to disagree with the latter half of your statement. Her defense is still bad, MP bang being a bit more useful on hit is very welcome, but it still has the obvious faults. Plus she still has no fully invincible startups moves which also removes the hope of safe DHCing which every other character has a least one option for iirc. Now before people start biting my head off (please don't, I'm not into vore ktks) I'm not by any means saying Peacock shouldn't have bad defense and it needs to be fixed entirely, just saying I don't agree with the "significant boost to her defense"arguement. Also didn't the lenny bodyguard thing get reverted? It doesn't block beams and such anymore, it should be more or less the same in terms of anti zoning and instead is more of a boost to her own zoning potential.

All in all as far as Peacock is concerned, I will admit I'm having a lot of fun with the new experiments and trying out how to make certain moves more useful. I just wonder what, if anything, will be done to her level 3. That's the main thing I'd say needs to be changed as it's still rather useless. But time will tell and I'll look forward to any further experiments and trials.

 

[Yomabuddy]

She's very bad at catching up to people

That's because she's a GRAPPLER. That's what they do. She already has amazing mobility and anti-grappler-tactic tools compared to your average Potemkin or Tager or Zangief or Hugo or whoever.

buffer after lnl hits

Why not add a buffer to everything? (I'm saying this sarcastically, I'm sick of adding buffers to stuff that it doesn't need) Plenty of arguments can be made the same way you're arguing for Bella to get a buffer on MP LnL for just about every special ever.

 

[severine]

im gonna be that hecker whom honestly really appreciates that BB has a 5f autorepeat on everything.

 

[joshb911]

M shadow into c.mp does not result in c.mp pushing the opponent towards Fukua. Was this intended cause I'm looking at patch notes and can't find when this change was made. It limits several reset options I have off m shadow with this change.

Also speaking of m shadow there seems to be an issue with anchor points for certain frames of animation. This was done using m shadow facing right.

Spoiler

I don't think Fukua should face the opposite direction on certain frames cause it leads to miss inputs on combos and reset attempts that people may have.

Here is the distance c.mp pushes after m shadow.

Spoiler

And just for comparison here is normal c.mp at the same range

Spoiler

 

[Zidiane]

Every new change is denoted with the *NEW* tag...

I assumed new stuff would be noted in the steam updates, but I haven't seen anything there about any of those Bella changes. I'll read the whole list of changes over again.

As far as c.mp being improved vs OTG:

 

[Peterthegameguy]

Am I the only that thinks the original 8 just need to be left alone? No buffs or nerfs?

PW got the buffs she needed, Fortune is an even better puppet character because I guess she needed that, Peacock got her QOL changes, I think we're good. I don't understand why Double, Bella, Val and all of them need to change they seem to be doing fine as of lately.

Out of curiosity, what were those buffs PW received?

 

[Cattfish]

Peacock's bomb -> teleport is so good with dealing with the Robo fortune matchup. You can really shut down Air H Beam and L ground beam with HK bomb > HK teleport. It doesnt grant counter hit but it leaves peacock in Robo's face which imo is needed because beams ruin bombs. A really fair tool I'd love it to stay.

 

[Pickles]

Out of curiosity, what were those buffs PW received?

Check the patch notes

 

[MegamanDS]

So playing Sage yesterday, 3 things stuck in my mind.

1. m punch move with Peacock beat and knocked back my robo s. fp twice. Is this supposed to break armor now? I'll dig through his twitch archive to find it.

2. He was throwing plane + assist+ teleport + bomb + teleport back. This lockdown was AMAZINGLY good. It was actually fun to play against although really difficult. But it put my blocking to the test. I don't mind it but it sounds like a lot of people think its too broken. Coming from MvC2, this isn't that bad. Go play spiral with drones to see why.

3. There was about 6-8 times where he would jump in with beo chair and big band punch assist and I would counter with st. fp with robo and call Fukua but when he hits me, the screen flickered black and froze for about 1/4 of a second making my Fukua assist not come out (I coincidentally call her on the frames it freezes and goes black). I'm not sure if it was like this pre-beta since I've never experienced it. I'm not even sure if @dekillsage noticed it or came up on his end but it happened A LOT.

 

[Calexe]

It's possible to reduce startup of H Luger to 12F or 14F?

 

[Cadenza]

Should explain why before you ask.

 

[Calexe]

Should explain why before you ask.

Just compared with others projectiles only change your trajectory like Love Dart, Dead Cross, UpperKhat, etc...
I do not think there should be reason to have a difference.

 

[Cadenza]

Just so its clear. You mean the start up across other character's projectiles are the same and you feel that h luger should not be different?

 

[Calexe]

Just so its clear. You mean the start up across other character's projectiles are the same and you feel that h luger should not be different?

Yes