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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Yeah I can see the point of using a 1hp scapegoat being a body shield for assists to regen hp that aren't at the 1hp thresh hold being an issue. The reason I thought this was a decent idea was mostly cause of the speed of the game in its combat.

Personally in Yomabuddy's video example I wouldn't be against it since the fencer was trying to get closer but was failing so she resorted to holding block at fullscreen and waiting for the clock cause it was the only way they could see have a chance at winning.

Even if it only happened on your last character (or life bar in double Solos) I wouldn't mind cause again say your up against the good zoner and have 2 other half health or so and your on your last char and blocking. I would see it as a fair chance for the losing last leg player (or from a not expert player perspective a last chance or last breathing room moment before death). against say both players on last characters and one being the Zoner and low hp but not at 1hp and the other blocking 1hp player I can see it being BS in a coin flip win kinda way though :P

It was just an idea I had ever since the Beta experiments started and SFV was out and had no chip deaths (except on supers). Not like I just suggested this outa the blue or anything. If its a dumb idea then it'll just be left as an idea like nothing. But i was still curious to suggest it anyways for discussion for it.

One thing I will argue though is the "SG had chip deaths since start so people wouldn't like adapting to it now" When Street Fighter 4 (Not sure if the other previous Street Fighters had Chip deaths) has it and then players had to get over and deal with no chip deaths in SFV.
 
Burpinator said:
One thing I will argue though is the "SG had chip deaths since start so people wouldn't like adapting to it now" When Street Fighter 4 (Not sure if the other previous Street Fighters had Chip deaths) has it and then players had to get over and deal with no chip deaths in SFV.
SF5 is not a patch to SF4. It's a brand new game with new mechanics on everything.
 
Burpinator said:
fencer was trying to get closer but was failing
...
have a chance at winning.
This is where we will disagree then.

If you fail at doing something you don't deserve to win.
If you can't get a hit on a zoner within a time frame (your health and the timer) you deserve to die, not just sit on 1HP 5ever.

dekillsage said:
If chip kills existed the same thing would happen because the opponent didn't know what to do except now they'd just eventually die.
Yeah it's more meaningful when you die for your inability to perform a task.
It adds a lot of threat to anything that inflicts chip once your health is low.
 
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At slapfights tonight, I found that Eliza's "purse" intros plays quite a lot. I lost count of how many times it played compared to her other intros. Her blood pool one appeared occasionally, and I only saw her old intro once or twice I think? It might be worth looking at the randomizer for character intros, since I saw the purse intro so often that I erroneously thought it had become her new default.
 
missingno said:
SF5 is not a patch to SF4. It's a brand new game with new mechanics on everything.

But thats still a SF player that may have played all the SF titles and still needing to deal with 'ok now you can't chip death in this game'

Liam said:
Yeah it's more meaningful when you die for your inability to perform a task.
It adds a lot of threat to anything that inflicts chip once your health is low.

I agree with the meaning of 'your not doing what you should be so you shouldn't win' but I am thinking of the situations where you have 0 ways to not get hit. My thinking is yes its a threat but say if your midscreen and your up close to Bella who uses a Dynamo. What is your option to not get hit. You can't backdash or back up cause of the length of the hit boxes, you can't jump over it cause either your too close or your jump/double/super jump isn't high enough, or Dp cause the super lasts too long. Its the same with Robo's Beam supers from full screen. Unless you are already above the Beam height it will hit you blocking no matter what or when. I understand the thinking of the player at 1hp shouldn't win but i still think that player should have a chance at it at least. besides if your good they'd get hit by a mix up or stray hit anyways. Since people aren't perfect blockers 100% of the time.
 
Liam said:
Yeah it's more meaningful when you die for your inability to perform a task.
It adds a lot of threat to anything that inflicts chip once your health is low.

I agree for most games. Uniel not so much, but that's a whole other topic.

Btw there are two changes to Robo that are kinda weird to me
s.MK -1f startup, +3f recovery.
s.MP +1f (not 2f) startup; unheld s.MP block advantage now +2; s.MP hold block advantage +0.

First one makes some of her links super hard to do which made her reliable combo potential worse, the second one just made her pressure worse. Was she getting too much damage with the st.mk -> lp links? You get normal/high damage based on how many heads you have, positioning, and assists, but I didn't play her enough before to know whether or not this actually needed to be changed. You can get high damage regardless, so what's the reasoning?

Second one isn't bothering me as much now that I use the first hit of st.mp to hit confirm. Was super weird at first though, and I don't know how other robo's feel about it.

I think mine as it is right now could be improved a bit to compliment her zoning. Like if it explodes it knocks away instead of causing a knockdown. Just a thought, because while it is good on a read and even as an anti abare move, it feels like you're getting too little off it on trade. I talked with Skar a little about this, but I actually don't remember if allowing her to get a full combo off this at the cost of a bar was good or not... zz This would ruin some other stuff too, so if its not wanted or people think she doesn't need it to be any different then its fine.

Bonus: Filia airball still gets me tight, but I'm getting used to it.
 
dekillsage said:
I agree for most games. Uniel not so much, but that's a whole other topic.

Btw there are two changes to Robo that are kinda weird to me
s.MK -1f startup, +3f recovery.
s.MP +1f (not 2f) startup; unheld s.MP block advantage now +2; s.MP hold block advantage +0.

First one makes some of her links super hard to do which made her reliable combo potential worse, the second one just made her pressure worse. Was she getting too much damage with the st.mk -> lp links? You get normal/high damage based on how many heads you have, positioning, and assists, but I didn't play her enough before to know whether or not this actually needed to be changed. You can get high damage regardless, so what's the reasoning?

Second one isn't bothering me as much now that I use the first hit of st.mp to hit confirm. Was super weird at first though, and I don't know how other robo's feel about it.

I think mine as it is right now could be improved a bit to compliment her zoning. Like if it explodes it knocks away instead of causing a knockdown. Just a thought, because while it is good on a read and even as an anti abare move, it feels like you're getting too little off it on trade. I talked with Skar a little about this, but I actually don't remember if allowing her to get a full combo off this at the cost of a bar was good or not... zz This would ruin some other stuff too, so if its not wanted or people think she doesn't need it to be any different then its fine.

Bonus: Filia airball still gets me tight, but I'm getting used to it.
sMK turning sLP into a 1F link and removing the sLK / cLK link has been discussed with Mike.
I think it's a side effect but I don't know what's happening with it.

I talked to Mike about our conversations with Mine too.

sMP I don't care about.
 
Burpinator said:
But thats still a SF player that may have played all the SF titles and still needing to deal with 'ok now you can't chip death in this game'
And? That's to be expected for brand new games in pretty much any franchise, every SF is pretty different - for far bigger things than just no chip kills. I expect SG2 will have big changes someday too. But this is not SG2, and that day is not today.

As I mentioned before, SG1's characters, particularly the zoners, are balanced around how chip currently works. Think about the repercussions for Peacock and Robo, and right after all these attempts to fix Robo's zoning. How about Beowulf and the main tradeoff when he goes chairless, what happens when suddenly that's much less of a threat to him?
 
Beo chair toss can't be reflected cause reasons so is he not getting the chair retrieval thing?
 
Ooo fun thought wall bounce/stick damage. Like Extra 100 damage or something when you get bounced off a wall.
 
This is the time to ask so might as well. When the idea isn't supported I just move along. Heck one day I may say something useful. Broken clocks and what not.
 
Tank said:
This is the time to ask so might as well. When the idea isn't supported I just move along. Heck one day I may say something useful. Broken clocks and what not.
Alternatively, you could think about what you are suggesting and if you still think it is a good idea/worth trying provide justification for it in your post. This saves everyone time, makes it more likely that what you're suggesting will get seriously considered and provokes debate. Just saying "Hey why not do [random thing], cus might as well" doesn't move the discussion forward and just acts as a distraction from other topics.
 
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@Lex Fair enough.
I just try to keep things short so things aren't a wall of possibly silly text.

Reason for wall bounce idea. Promote different corner game. When you have someone in the corner you usually want to keep them there. Having wall bounce damage gives an incentive to try and get extra guaranteed damage over a reset since you typically don't want to wall bounce your corner pressure away.

I've been trying to do meterless wall bounce combos with everyone and the max I could get was 4 with parasoul. The end result is not much extra damage would be achieved but it would change how you'd want to do coroner stuff depending on how much damage the bounce does. Extra damage with no extra undizzy too.
 
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Yomabuddy said:
wrt no chip kills


UNIEL is cool and all but this is the dumbest thing I've seen from a non-Capcom game.

---------------------------------------------------

Would it be a lot to ask if Beo had recovery on his regular snap reduced? He's the only character who can't actually get a midscreen snap using Sing.

This doesn't matter at all but Orie could have just dashed foward k thnxs l8r
 
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Again. When people post.

Please consider your tools.
Tank, specifically parasoul doesnt need any wallstick properties or any extra damage. To be honest it seems tacky and lazy to just suggest that. Her damage comes from f.hp routes. Her burst baits also happen to keep the corner as well as setting up a tear accordingly.

There is a big difference between hoping you would say something useful and actually pointing out a qol change like's stuff's pw's snap problem or the death crawl situation.

Once again. I really encourage people to give a bit more thought before posting.
 
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I just noticed that due to the way Argus Agony works now, DHCing into Fenrir Drive in the corner misses on almost all the cast (Squigly, Ms. Fortune, Peacock, Painwheel, Filia/Fukua, Double and Robo Fortune). It looks like only the first hit connects but then the rest of the super simply doesn't connect. Technically this bug existed since forever (it could happen if you made the DHC too early), but it wasn't a problem due to the fact that Argus used to elevate the opponent enough to avoid the whiff.
 
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Might I request that Fukua shadow hold -> release -> raw tag doesn't deactivate the shadow? Right now if you release a shadow and then raw tag, if the shadow is already hitting the opponent it will finish what it's doing but if you tag before the shadow comes in contact with them then it just stops. Full disclosure: this request is only because I am working on a whiffed raw tag combo with m shadow and if I tag too late I dont recover in time to continue the combo, but if I tag too early I am whiffing a tag right in the face of an opponent who gets to ground tech which is not fun. This is not inherently bad, I am sure I am far from the first and far from the last person to come up with a combo with a tight window for an input where you die if you don't hit that window, and if I don't get this change I'll just deal with it, but it would be nice to not have to worry about it so much. (I also understand that letting shadows keep active while another character comes in sounds like it could have the POTENTIAL to set up some nasty stuff so I'll understand if this change is denied, but nothing particularly mean comes to mind when I think about it it just sounds like something that maybe the potential is there? Please let me know if this change would be too stupid though.)
 
Pickles said:
Might I request that Fukua shadow hold -> release -> raw tag doesn't deactivate the shadow? Right now if you release a shadow and then raw tag, if the shadow is already hitting the opponent it will finish what it's doing but if you tag before the shadow comes in contact with them then it just stops. Full disclosure: this request is only because I am working on a whiffed raw tag combo with m shadow and if I tag too late I dont recover in time to continue the combo, but if I tag too early I am whiffing a tag right in the face of an opponent who gets to ground tech which is not fun. This is not inherently bad, I am sure I am far from the first and far from the last person to come up with a combo with a tight window for an input where you die if you don't hit that window, and if I don't get this change I'll just deal with it, but it would be nice to not have to worry about it so much. (I also understand that letting shadows keep active while another character comes in sounds like it could have the POTENTIAL to set up some nasty stuff so I'll understand if this change is denied, but nothing particularly mean comes to mind when I think about it it just sounds like something that maybe the potential is there? Please let me know if this change would be too stupid though.)
I also don't like how it goes away after release if you get hit or block. There has been multiple times where I sent shadow out and block something but it goes away. It should stay on screen and finish since you already released it.
 
MegamanDS said:
I also don't like how it goes away after release if you get hit or block. There has been multiple times where I sent shadow out and block something but it goes away. It should stay on screen and finish since you already released it.

when fukua is on point, if the shadow keeps going on hit/block then it will always trade in your favor and she would be able to approach behind m shadow with basically no risk. i'd be fine with shadow going away if your point (not necessarily still fukua, in the tag case) gets hit/blocks cause i only want this for a combo, i think at neutral shadows are fine.
 
Pickles said:
when fukua is on point, if the shadow keeps going on hit/block then it will always trade in your favor and she would be able to approach behind m shadow with basically no risk. i'd be fine with shadow going away if your point (not necessarily still fukua, in the tag case) gets hit/blocks cause i only want this for a combo, i think at neutral shadows are fine.
I'm comparing it to throwing a mine with robo and running after it. Or me hitting Eliza but the guy still comes out from the ground or the air. Or hitting Parasoul after bike is called but still interrupted.
 
Not even gonna touch on that.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2m5x7gi&s=9#.WAmZgugrJhE

I was watching streams and it seemed that some players still have problems with doing c.mp c.hp Hold shadow mixups.

Specifically on doing c.lk c.lk or c.lk c.mp. What if c.hp's juggle range was reduced to the point where the green line is? basically making it steeper and easily accessible to setting up?
 
Would it be possible to deactivate manual assist combination if you use macros/assist shortcuts? Basically turn the assist shortcuts into dedicated assist buttons instead of LP/MK and LK/MP shortcuts?

It would solve so many issues...
 
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HASJ said:
Would it be possible to deactivate manual assist combination if you use macros/assist shortcuts? Basically turn the assist shortcuts into dedicated assist buttons instead of LP/MK and LK/MP shortcuts?

It would solve so many issues...
There's a lot of normal+assist setups where the timing only works if you call your assist with a plink. For example if you want to do Double c.HP + Squigly Drag 'n Bite assist, you would press c.HP then a couple frames later press either LK or MK. You can't do something like this with a macro because you'll get just the assist with no c.HP, and it's hard to do it fast enough if you press HP then your assist macro. Even if you use macros, something like this is easiest with the button combinations.

What issues do you mean? Could you elaborate?
 
mcpeanuts said:
There's a lot of normal+assist setups where the timing only works if you call your assist with a plink. For example if you want to do Double c.HP + Squigly Drag 'n Bite assist, you would press c.HP then a couple frames later press either LK or MK. You can't do something like this with a macro because you'll get just the assist with no c.HP, and it's hard to do it fast enough if you press HP then your assist macro. Even if you use macros, something like this is easiest with the button combinations.
he wants it to be optional for macro users, not removed entirely.
 
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mcpeanuts said:
There's a lot of normal+assist setups where the timing only works if you call your assist with a plink. For example if you want to do Double c.HP + Squigly Drag 'n Bite assist, you would press c.HP then a couple frames later press either LK or MK. You can't do something like this with a macro because you'll get just the assist with no c.HP, and it's hard to do it fast enough if you press HP then your assist macro. Even if you use macros, something like this is easiest with the button combinations.

What issues do you mean? Could you elaborate?
Like... Having to plink to call the assist. Wouldn't a dedicated assist button solve that?
 
MegamanDS said:
I'm comparing it to throwing a mine with robo and running after it. Or me hitting Eliza but the guy still comes out from the ground or the air. Or hitting Parasoul after bike is called but still interrupted.
All Fukua would have to do is release kick as soon as the opponent is close to her and it would force a trade in her favour.
The opponent would have to block and she would get pressure from that.

You can at least throw Mine / Bikes / Horus, but Fukua can do anything she wants for a long time and release as soon as you touch her on block or hit.
You can send out an assist to attack mine place / Horus / bikes but Fukua would be blocking the whole time. It's extremely different.

Do you think she needs that?

I think she's still incredible.
Do you think she's lower tier or not as good?

I know you thought she was low tier pre beta so I'm curious if you still think she isn't very good even now.

It would really be a huge buff.
 
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HASJ said:
Like... Having to plink to call the assist. Wouldn't a dedicated assist button solve that?

Like Peanuts said, some setups that involve assists require that you use the assist button while also doing the motion for a commond. Since the assist buttons include LK + MP, and MP + HK, you can call your assist and do whatever command you want with the respective LK, MP, or HK (QCF, DP, etc.) For example, take Beowulf and Big Band. Let's say Beowulf is in grabstance, and he has brass knuckles assist. With OTG Brass, Beo can convert off of a press slam. And, since press slam is any punch move and forward, he can do one of the assist buttons and press forward at the same time, in order to have the precise timing for brass to hit the opponent during press slam.

It is not limited to conversions. It can also be used to have assist out as you use a generally unsafe move to make it safe. Having the assist buttons not be "designated" like you said is really good for it allows moves to be done at nearly the same time. You just need to be aware with the buttons the assist occupy. And besides, I'm assuming what you mean by "designated assist button" is that it won't occupy any of the normal buttons, L to H punch and kick. That would remove the preciseness of the aforementioned tech.
 
Rabbleflaggers said:
Like Peanuts said, some setups that involve assists require that you use the assist button while also doing the motion for a commond. Since the assist buttons include LK + MP, and MP + HK, you can call your assist and do whatever command you want with the respective LK, MP, or HK (QCF, DP, etc.) For example, take Beowulf and Big Band. Let's say Beowulf is in grabstance, and he has brass knuckles assist. With OTG Brass, Beo can convert off of a press slam. And, since press slam is any punch move and forward, he can do one of the assist buttons and press forward at the same time, in order to have the precise timing for brass to hit the opponent during press slam.

It is not limited to conversions. It can also be used to have assist out as you use a generally unsafe move to make it safe. Having the assist buttons not be "designated" like you said is really good for it allows moves to be done at nearly the same time. You just need to be aware with the buttons the assist occupy. And besides, I'm assuming what you mean by "designated assist button" is that it won't occupy any of the normal buttons, L to H punch and kick. That would remove the preciseness of the aforementioned tech.
Receita Federal said:
he wants it to be optional for macro users, not removed entirely.
 
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I'm really excited for this.
 
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This is gonna be crazy :) can't wait to see what people do with him.
 
Can the training mode menu get a "reset to default" button? Would be helpfull to not have to go through the whole list trying to reset everything by hand.
 
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"Spend hype to get stuff you got for free before" sounds like a really cheap way to get players to use a mechanic, but it looks like hype should come often enough to make it worthwhile maybe? It depends on how hellish the "one EX finisher per combo" bit turns out in the long run. Also, is mic drop gonna get changed with the new hype stuff?
 
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Broken Loose said:
"Spend hype to get stuff you got for free before" sounds like a really cheap way to get players to use a mechanic, but it looks like hype should come often enough to make it worthwhile maybe? It depends on how hellish the "one EX finisher per combo" bit turns out in the long run. Also, is mic drop gonna get changed with the new hype stuff?
That's only the case for hard knockdown from grab finishers and his damage (and there was plenty of new stuff that was shown and discussed besides that) and given how much his entire gameplan revolves around hard knockdown and meterless damage (and how powerful both of those are), I think that this is perfectly reasonable shakeup.
 
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Hell, how many characters even have the option for a waterless knockdown? Eliza, squigly, band, and beo?
 
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