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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

lenny + goodfellows seems weird, since its a slide the lenny explosion stops the opponent brings them foward and lets them do a ground tech so they get closer to a peacock recovering from goodfellows animation, i guess it makes it a risk/reward situation where if you do it you get tons of damage but you give the opponent too close, you do get time to block but having the opponent close is not peacocks best option.

though lenny+goodfellows, if not rarely is never use by players.
 
Yeah, Lenny into goodfellows was a neat thing and was basically a tod against anything not a solo for the most part but it was fine because it was the most telegraphed level 3 attempt in the world and rarely ever worked. But still, it is unfortunate to lose the lenny+goodfellows thing. It's probably still better than her old level 3 but if Goodfellas is supposed to be mainly a stylin' move than an optimal one, I like the concept of being able to double style.
 
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What if Peacock's level 3 got a big bounce at the end so she can combo off of it? Or is that too good? I think every character can combo off of level 3 except her.
 
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Kyugetsuki said:
The easiest fix for it is just improving your play which is keep blocking in the same direction and just get accustomed to it. If it confuses you because you see it so rarely, then just see it more often?? Literally just make a dummy in training room use it if you don't ever see anyone use it. This is just knowing the opponents move set.
Look man, I've stated like 20 times that I know it's a situation of where I should just adapt, but either way this seems like it's a bug and I see no reason why it wouldn't be fixed *if* it is an easy fix.

Didn't even want this to blow up on here, should've messaged Mike Z directly. I stated in my original post that I know it's a matter of me needing to play better, but a stupid amount of people keep replying to me saying "yeah, but you should just play better." All while ignoring the entire purpose of my post on that it appears to be a bug that is a little confusing and that I'd like to see a fix if its not a big deal to fix it.

Let's say when Cerebella uses st.hk that after the first hit you your character flipped to face the other direction for a few frames before getting hit on the same side, would that be fine? Because I see that as like the same thing. Man, I didn't even want to see a single reply to this unless it's from Mike either saying "Yeah, I can fix it." Or "No, I'm not fixing it, get good."

That was the only purpose to my post. Geez.
 
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Icky said:
Look man, I've stated like 20 times that I know it's a situation of where I should just adapt, but either way this seems like it's a bug and I see no reason why it wouldn't be fixed *if* it is an easy fix.
It's not a bug and everyone else is right, you need to adapt. Double goes across the whole screen and then lands right in front of where you were originally standing. The first hit is in front of you so you just need to block normally, the second hit is when she comes from above and lands in front of you so you just block normally again.

If it's not broken don't fix it.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
Yeah, Lenny into goodfellows was a neat thing and was basically a tod against anything not a solo for the most part but it was fine because it was the most telegraphed level 3 attempt in the world and rarely ever worked. But still, it is unfortunate to lose the lenny+goodfellows thing. It's probably still better than her old level 3 but if Goodfellas is supposed to be mainly a stylin' move than an optimal one, I like the concept of being able to double style.
Lenny x Goodfellas catches people off guard if you do a quick reset into ground throw since Lenny will wait for Goodfellas to end though -- of course only really works if you're conditioning them to expect you to continue the combo though. Also with the advent of DHC Goodfellas you can do setups now if you have enough meter to burn. Stuff x L Bang x Lenny DHC Hatred Install x stuff x Death Crawl DHC Goodfellas for example.

The sliding knockdown makes me sad because I can no longer dump 5 meter on someone not paying attention with Lenny, Goodfellas, and Argus Agony all in a row, though. Since, as Ninja-Nutria mentioned, it'll cause them to bounce towards Peacock and they're able to get into her face (I believe it's only +3 though). If there were a way for Lenny to cause the big bouncing knockback off of sliding knockdown that would be nice, it'd help with those few times where you'll throw an opponent directly into Lenny but they just kinda dink off of him despite taking full damage. And I suppose it'd help with sliding knockdown assists when Lenny is in play too.

Now that I mention it, would it be overstepping any bounds if I suggested that Lenny wait until the end of Peacock's throw animation if he'd otherwise explode due to time expire? Using Lenny in neutral is underwhelming when you get a successful grab while putting them under pressure (or as a counter to an assist call) only for Lenny to explode on nothing.
 
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I hope it's not too late to complain about Big Band, because I have some thoughts to share after playing him for about 2 years. In the beginning I fell in love with his ground game and how he could make really hard reads in neutral and how risky it was, it was exciting. But as time went on people started to wisen up and block a LOT more against him in neutral, which would make his already risky moves easier to punish. He has j.LK and cymbals which are arguably some of the best air moves in the game, but why? I don't like how people play him, jumping around and chicken blocking, mixing up air throw, j.LK and cymbals together. I like how he's huge and has armoured moves, does a lot of damage and can make extremely hard reads with parries. But then I see tournament play where someone DHC's big band in, they do brass + assist, get hit, mash SSJ and safe DHC out. It sucks because it's just not fun to watch imo. Why does he have j.LK and cymbals? all of his other air moves (excluding timpani and maybe j.HK) are pretty bad in general but then he has these two god moves that completely outshine everything else. It just seems like an unbalanced toolkit. I don't care ONE BIT about LK/MK cymbals being reverted to hit mid because that's not what the move is for imo, it's for catching advances and not offensive pressure. He has giant step which is already an amazing overhead. I am reaching out to everyone who thinks airjump j.LK pokes and occasional ground special moves makes big band seem like a "lame" character at higher levels of play. He could be so much more! I thought about it and Beowulf got reworked quite hard so why not Big Band? Anyway that's my spiel and I think I covered everything I wanted to (which was kind of one point but still)
 
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Alex12898 said:
stuff about Big Band getting reworked, possibly MORE NERFS

Oh God what have I started

I'm not slighting your post FYI, I think it's valid. However, I disagree with BB getting reworked, because I think he is okay as a character and I doubt that Mike has the time to pull something like that off - especially since he wants this beta revison to be finished ASAP.
 
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Hammerschmidt said:
Oh God what have I started

I'm not slighting your post FYI, I think it's valid. However, I disagree with BB getting reworked, because I think he is okay as a character and I doubt that Mike has the time to pull something like that off - especially since he wants this beta revison to be finished ASAP.
I agree that it is simply too late for him to be reworked. I just hope the current way of playing him does not stick forever, that would frankly make me sad. Maybe there's a better way of playing neutral with him that we haven't figured out yet, but I don't know. I was discussing it with other people and we even suggested removing cymbals altogether and buffing him somewhere else but I'm not a game designer. I avoid posting in this thread because of this fact but I guess I was too late when I wanted to make a serious post.
 
Icky said:
Didn't even want this to blow up on here, should've messaged Mike Z directly. I stated in my original post that I know it's a matter of me needing to play better, but a stupid amount of people keep replying to me saying "yeah, but you should just play better." All while ignoring the entire purpose of my post on that it appears to be a bug that is a little confusing and that I'd like to see a fix if its not a big deal to fix it.

I don't think they should be saying "yeah, but you should just play better." It's more like "No, but you should just play better." See below. I actually addressed the purpose of your post in my last post :

Kyugetsuki said:
If it wasn't clear enough, the problem doesn't lie in double's tag move.

I thought I was being clear enough, but I'll state it even more clearly. The situation you described is not a bug. Double technically passes by you(she is on the otherside) after the first hit causing you to turn around. This only happens midscreen. This is what you are experiencing and your character turning around is intended behavior. This is the reason and you'll notice if you get hit in the corner your character doesn't turn around. So it isn't like how you made an example of Cerebella st.hk at all.

Seriously sometimes its a good idea to make a post on this thread in case of situations like this...Otherwise you're just wasting Mike's time because you weren't clear on how a move actually worked.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Count again...
Fukua - yes
Filia - yes
Eilza - yes
Painwheel - yes
Big Band - yes
Bella - yes
Fortune - yes
Robo - yes
Squigly - yes
Parasoul - yes
Beo - I don't know which super is his level 3, but with some taunt combo, I'm sure it's yes
Val - no
Double - no
Peacock - no
 
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MegamanDS said:
Val - no (but she has a level 5 which is yes)

That's not fair... if you're going to count level 5 then you might as well count level 1.
Peacock level 1 lenny-yes.

Edit: I mean Lenny-> Argus. level 2
 
MegamanDS said:
I don't know which super is his level 3, but with some taunt combo, I'm sure it's yes
He has 2. With hype he can now combo off both.
 
Shuffleupagus said:
Oi, mate. You forgot Double.
added

Kyugetsuki said:
That's not fair... if you're going to count level 5 then you might as well count level 1.
Peacock level 1 lenny-yes.

Edit: I mean Lenny-> Argus. level 2
okay edited
 
MegamanDS said:
Fukua - yes
Filia - yes
Eilza - yes
Painwheel - yes
Big Band - yes
Bella - yes
Fortune - yes
Robo - yes
Squigly - yes
Parasoul - yes
Beo - I don't know which super is his level 3, but with some taunt combo, I'm sure it's yes
Val - no
Double - no
Peacock - no
You forgot to mention that 3 of these are corner only (also, I wouldn't really classify dept mode for Robo as "combining" off of a level 3). So less than half the cast can combo off of their level 3s midscreen and just under a quarter can't combo off of their level 3s at all.
 
MegamanDS said:
I play Parasoul and I think that buff is too strong. lol

But I'll see what others think of it. Maybe it just fits my team's DHCs really well

wait Para's lvl 3 staying or the other thing I put in the spoiler. I think it's fine cause that;s how just about other Projectile based super>DHC works, (fuk-fireball, Squig lvl 3 etc.) it also had a tendency to mess up some stuff before because the bullets knockdown which means some stuff didn't connect properly if you already used otg. Not only that it would scale whatever you did get off of it into utter garbage unless you are using as a pressure tool in which case just about every character has a more efficient use of that meter for pressure, maybe not as long but still.

The other stuff in the spoiler is just a pipe dream because I want para's taunt to do something cool, but "I don't want to implement something that's going to fundamentally change the meta of the game." which is why only the DLC character taunts do super cool stuff (i.e. extra parts to the super, health back+ super variant, lvl5 unlock, hype etc.)

I could understand if it was like "Yo, let's just let bella keep going if you DHC out of Dynamo" but it's fine because Parasoul and her soilders are two different entities (and there's no reason she couldn't just say "cover who ever comes in after me")

not to mention she doesn't have tear on the floor which means her lvl3 doesn't break 4K at point blank anymore
 
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Lex said:
You forgot to mention that 3 of these are corner only (also, I wouldn't really classify dept mode for Robo as "combining" off of a level 3). So less than half the cast can combo off of their level 3s midscreen and just under a quarter can't combo off of their level 3s at all.
Regardless of corner only, they can still combo off of it. She is part of the 'hard' no group. Like I said, I don't play Peacock and don't really think much of her. I'm just trying to help fight for people that play her cause I think she is on the weaker end of the spectrum. Maybe she doesn't need anything? It's up to Mike and what he thinks.

Masqman said:
wait Para's lvl 3 staying or the other thing I put in the spoiler. I think it's fine cause that;s how just about other Projectile based super>DHC works, (fuk-fireball, Squig lvl 3 etc.) it also had a tendency to mess up some stuff before because the bullets knockdown which means some stuff didn't connect properly if you already used otg. Not only that it would scale whatever you did get off of it into utter garbage unless you are using as a pressure tool in which case just about every character has a more efficient use of that meter for pressure, maybe not as long but still.
The level 3 DHC thing. It's really good. Adds a ton of damage and helps continue combos if you don't want to go for just raw super damage and build more meter. Like I said though, it just fits perfectly with my team so maybe it's just me.
 
I don't see any justification as to why she should be able to combo after a solo snap midscreen.
 
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acfan said:
I don't see any justification as to why she should be able to combo after a solo snap midscreen.

Other solos can already combo off of snaps from midscreen, I don't have issue with that myself personally. Unless you mean to take that away from solos completely
 
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fenster said:
Other solos can already combo off of snaps from midscreen, I don't have issue with that myself personally. Unless you mean to take that away from solos completely
Without using a super or having some sort of situational setup? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking.
 
One thing I'm still thinking over is how all versions of LnL for Cerebella are -6 on block. From light to heavy, they have increasing distance, damage, and armor. I feel like it would make more sense for H to be at least more negative than L.
 
Icky said:
Without using a super or having some sort of situational setup? I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking.

Ips carries over but you get your ground otg back. And the condition has to be Solo vs last remaining character on a team for it to even work.

I'll admit I haven't specifically tested the whole cast, but uh I figured if Filia/Parasoul/Eliza/Big Band/Robo could, then most any other solos could as well aside from chairless beo.
 
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fenster said:
And the condition has to be Solo vs last remaining character on a team for it to even work.

that's the part that fukua gets to skip, no? every solo can snap the last char into a wallbounce and keep comboing but fukua catches them with the shadow before they leave so even if they would normally be snapped off the screen she keeps them in the combo


my only other fukua related comment is that it still seems like being able to set another shadow while m shadow is hitting is too strong, i don't think she needs that.
 
she's spending a bar and some health to do a heavily scaled combo in exchange for health. I honestly think it's fine since almost everyone w/ assists can do it. and some other solos can do it as well. It's fair IMO.
 
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Also being able to set a shadow while M shadow is hitting is fine. The combo afterwards is extremely scaled and you have to reset which means they get another chance to play.
 
Masqman said:
I honestly think it's fine since almost everyone w/ assists can do it

you do know you only get health for snapping when you are a solo right

Masqman said:
and some other solos can do it as well.

give an example because i cannot think of any
 
I think it's pretty weird to have a snap not actually snap them out. We're not talking about snapping someone's last character, comboing off that is expected. But being able to snap the point and prevent them from actually leaving, surely that's not supposed to happen?
 
Sorry to bring up something unrelated, but I was wondering if this was intentional or not.
Sometimes when Cerebella reflects Motor Brigade there's one last bike left. I THINK it's more likely to happen if she's farther away from Parasoul when she reflects? or maybe it depends on Parasoul's proximity to the corner? Sometimes it prevents a punish. Which isn't to say that Bella is entitled to a punish when she lands a reflect, just wondering if this is supposed to happen.
 
I'm really confused about the Fukua public opinion, now. From what I gathered, Mike implemented the changes from Sonic and Sage's suggestions for remaking Fukua, yes? I definitely remember the changes being met with universal praise, as well - people loved her.

And now we're complaining about her being busted with the beta getting closer to it's final iteration? I dunno, man. It seems a little too late to be complaining about things IMO.

What exactly about her is busted now? Are her mixups that uninteractive despite unblockable changes and her damage reduction? I also am fine with the snap combo because it is a scaled Fukua combo that still requires you to play the video game at least once.
 
How does one reflect a bike in the first place?

But seriously, I think the last bike is offscreen/has yet to spawn when the projectile exits the playing field. So either the timing of the Egrets or the speed of the projectile would need tweaking. Why is the first Egret unharmed anyway?
 
Pickles said:
give an example because i cannot think of any

Parasoul does it easy, the setup distance wise is weight dependant (cause ofc it is...) but it's p common. tbh though it's pretty tight timing comparatively (because M clone speeds up when the opponent is in hitstun) because it has to be or else they go flying. She can do it with a tear near the edge of the screen but it's late here and I don't feel like doing frame perfect expired-explosion combos today.


slow cause it's 2016 and I'm tired
 
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Like I said it's definitely harder. She can also do jLP>LK>MK>MP>BHK>egret>snap which is much easier. Basically, figure out a way to do BHK>egret>snap at a distance that's close enough to actually hit. I have never gotten the tear thing outside of on accident and in training mode like twice it's literally like one frame and my execution is trash. On big band it's free you can do it off like any wall bounce or knock up.

The point is that fukua isn't the only character that can do something like that. I'd imagine other characters that can delay thing or summon stuff can also do it. (maybe Bird+ snap or something idk).

I think it's fair because:
1. you only get health regen in solo
2. in teams it's literally useless (doesn't affect red health at all)
3. she basically gets nothing but health because her damage is low (I guess this is slightly mitigated in solo vs anything but solo. but why would you do this in solo v solo when you can just snap...)
4. other character(s) can do this
 
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I was refuting your point but i do want to highlight this
Like I said it's definitely harder.

take that as you will but this seems to be one of the other issues people seem to have with fukua. my thoughts on the matter are rather insignificant but i would like people to discuss their feelings towards the character and let people view the footage to see how they feel about it.
 
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