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Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

i would put him low-mid.
his 'defense' is usually forced which leads you to bait out his stuff.
reason why he's forced is because of his size. EVERY character can just press a button at him. beat extend is there. but in terms of that and how people set band up. then what? SSJ?

nonetheless his defense is notable. but he's got some major flaws. at some point you get an edge you can go full screen and prep for when he has to go in. and he can't do anything fullscreen nor throw out anything. cymbal clash is a good defensive.

overall after playing players with beat extend assist. i'm starting to realize why it isn't that good. Its good if you're already pressing a button while the opponent is blocking and then you use the assist. its not good if you meaty the hit WITH an asssist of your own.

TLDR: he's low mid



I see what you are saying and while i wont change your mind, i used to think this way as well until recent events have lead me to believe otherwise:


No character can just press buttons at him afaik. He has what is most likely the highest priority air to air attack in the game provided he gets in range for it.

His j.lk hits on the eight frame which iirc is faster than squigly j.lk and para j.lp. His j.lk also has 15 ridiculous frames of actives... To further compare that...painwheels j.mp has 15 frames of actives.
But while pw j.mp is high priority because of its hitbox and range... BB j.lk priority is because of its absurd speed, while also having a billion actives. This means that BB can dash and do j.lk from a spacing near where other slower normals would be used, but still advance on his opponent even though his j.lk is wiffing. Because it will make contact eventually.
It IS beatable but the opponent from what i have seen has to do something preemptive.

BB j.lk done from a dash to rushdown the aerial opponent will beat just about everything out there easily including parasoul j.hp, bella j.mp and j.hk etc etc

So, really, the last thing the opponent can do is just rush him down with buttons.

And the. You add on the fact that BB forces people at fullscreen to jump all day or concentrate on jumping his hk stomp on reaction... Which allows him to do other things. Idk. I used to feel underwhelmed by him. Until i started to beat literally everything my opponent did with my j.lk which i can double jump before hitting the ground to make myself safer. And then for added effect, sure youve got him locked down after you make it passed his j.lk... Which isnt easy... Now you have to deal with him pbgcing through your offense, or predicting your bait and doing dash jump airthrow or ground throw cause he knows you are baiting him.


I mean, yeah if you want to look at it like the opponent is dictating his defense, sure then... But at the end of the day he still has that defense whereas a character like pw/val doesnt. And BB CAN keep himself from being rushed down via his j.lk

AND he can brass through any predictable stuff, or one jump back into land and hk giant step unblockable. As far as meaty him goes... Doesnt that go for all characters? If you attack with your assist at his reversal time but dont attack with your point character, no reversal save for uss against a grounded opponent is going to get you out.

As far as his offense goes it isnt any more predictable than oh say, doubles from what ive seen. He can tick throw you all day long or go for the cr.lk. He can end his low starter strings in lp beat extend then frame trap you with lp beat extend or choose to block or choose to parry or he can simply e brake... And thats if he wants to go low.. Simply throwing people and frame trapping with some speckled cr.lk stuff is decent... I havent had any issues with him getting blocked. Unless i go full bore. Which i never need to.




Tldr:


He's the full package. He has air to airs, reversals for days, decently safe offense with j.lk air to ground confirms, fullscreen threats, throws into full combos for no meter for both ground and air, double jump footsies and ridiculous damage.

He has no huge glaring weaknesses that i know of except for the fact that his low confirm can be a bit unsafe... Which is the same "weakness" filia tends to have.
 
He can end his low starter strings in lp beat extend then frame trap you with lp beat extend or choose to block or choose to parry or he can simply e brake
I was so confused about this and then I realized you meant LP brass knuckles.

He has no huge glaring weaknesses that i know of except for the fact that his low confirm can be a bit unsafe... Which is the same "weakness" filia tends to have.
His crouching hurtbox is a very significant weakness.
 
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Yeah thats my bad, i did mean lp brass. His hurtbox is a weakness definitely, but its one that he has ridiculously good ways of defending should the opponent get predictable with trying to exploit this weakness. The other weakness that i know of is he is hugely susceptible to throws. I forgot about that, that one is actually a real point of contention. I havent had my opponents attempts to overhead fuzzy me make me think BB had problems. He just autoguards that stuff and then pbgc if he has the read. Or go on offense if he has the bait read.
 
To be completely honest I would say bb suffers from the same problems that juggernaut suffers (minus the armor on neutral). He's got a bunch of good assists but his size and over all high startup moves along with his really bad frames on block make it very difficult for him to play against a defensive player that can read when the a-trains are coming. As an assists he's very good ( just like jugs was) but that will only go so far. I've found that multi hitting assists stuff the bk and just waiting and being pattient beat BE. So overall Id say on average (of course depending on the ratio and team) BB is low mid to mid (mainly because there's no BB hood in this game to compliment his rush down)
 
. but catching him in happy bday is easy as hell

Huh? He's one of the hardest bday characters. Yeah, you can hit him all day, but the point character will fall out. At most, you get 2 chains before the point falls out of the combo.
 
stuff
i understand your factor. however.

at fullscreen he's FORCED to go in. with j lk? i mean if you so wish. filia can s hp that all day. bella doesn't have to do much to punish that. fukua doesn't even need to go at him.

fortune's head makes so that anything he would like to do would have to be from the air.
he's good but once people LIMIT his options. cause yeah defense is there, but what's the point if all your defense is Beat extend as close range, and cymbal, j lk and LP brass at mid range? like i said he's lower than squigly but higher than PW in that regard.

@alexpi i guess my filia and my fortune doing corner carry into lvl3's or lvl1's aren't easy? welp i guess i suck
 
Jelly

Man you just jelly that an okay Big Band can destroy you with out doing too much. Example: Me. But kidding aside if Big Band's options are taken away from him, it does become a very steep battle for him to fight against. And ultimately Big Band requires a little more of a learning curve than others like to think. Sure you can just smash out the Brasses ans the Giant Steps but those will only get a Big Band so far and it become very readable. A Big Band player has to learn the importance of spacing and what moves to do when and where because when you do a move as Big Band, you are pretty much committed to it. And if your opponent blocks your attack then you are sure to be punished.
 
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i understand your factor. however.

at fullscreen he's FORCED to go in. with j lk? i mean if you so wish. filia can s hp that all day. bella doesn't have to do much to punish that. fukua doesn't even need to go at him


No he actually isnt as forced to go in as some other characters. He has moves that hit from fullscreen away. That doesnt mean he has to go in. If another character commits to a move at fullscreen, bb can punish it on a read.

I threaten my opponents with giant step all the time... But i almost never hit with it because i almost never actually do it. That isnt really its purpose. Its purpose is to scare the opponent into not sitting there fullscreen away. And it does that job rather spectacularly in my experience. When my opponents forget about it they get unblockabled. When they are looking for it they lose space control ability in the neutral.


fortune's head makes so that anything he would like to do would have to be from the air


Almost all of my BB play is in the air...


he's good but once people LIMIT his options. cause yeah defense is there, but what's the point if all your defense is Beat extend as close range, and cymbal, j lk and LP brass at mid range? like i said he's lower than squigly but higher than PW in that regard


Arent you forgetting that he's also limiting opponent options? If you are peacock you cant sit there and run your normal game or you WILL get brassed. If you are filia i can jump around at double jump height and make you guess where I'm going to land, if I'm going to single or double jump or empty jump and if i decide to do dash j.lk... It beats filia iad j.hp EASILY. Now i wouldnt say the matchup is easy by any means... Filia is super fast. But band can actually keep up with her from what ive seen. And the filia i get to play against has been playing filia since vanilla so he's got experience

I dont really get the whole point of whats the point if all of your defense is beat extend... I mean it isnt... But one good defensive move is more than enough... Look at ryu. Look at guile. Etc etc but BB doesnt just have beat extend. He also has brass for going through all sorts of pokes, and ssj for easy as hell pbgc in lockdown.

And as far as his j.lk only being a j.lk or whatever that point is... What else do you want man? Painwheel lives off of like one jumping normal with some hk and mk thrown in sometimes.

BB has lots of approach options... Many are unsafe... But he has a combination of unsafe and safe approach options. His unsafe options are armored or invincible. His safe option is super fast. And he also has one of if not the fastest jumps in the game combined with a very fast height gain on his double jump which allows him to turtle up a bit in the air and pick his spots... Being able to pick your spots is one of the things he excels at. I cant brass everything and i cant avoid everything... But i can generally turtle long enough to see a pattern and devise a solution. He's great at that sort of thing.


I mean we can talk about how gimmicky giant step/brass/ssj is... But at the end of the day, if the opponent doesnt respect those they are in for a world of pain. If they DO respect those options BBs game starts to really come alive with crazy mindgame pressures.

I play a decent amount of characters in this game and its fare from my first fighting game... But BB makes me feel powerful without even doing anything. No matter where I'm at.


Im in the corner getting locked down and my opponent is trying to run fuzzy mixups? Man with painwheel I'm scared. But with BB... Man if i get an ssj out and hit both characters... Now YOU are cornered.

And if my ssj got baited.. Well i still did a ridiculous amount of damage to your assist and/or killed them. Then you do your combo and resets are whatever but you drop the reset for a bait cause you dont want to eat ssj and now I'm out of pressure for free. Etc etc etc.

Yes BB gets fucked up for making bad reads on reversals and stuff...but everyone does. He still has like some of the best in the game and great movement and great fullscreen priority and a command grab that sets up high/low/bait mixups and a close range giant step that if he covers with an assist, is almost completely safe and leads to crazy damage.

He aint perfect but he's good man. And i havent even said anything about his assists..
 
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BB is really good, he just has 2 matchups that I'm pretty sure are at Parasoul v Peacock level
 
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I'm terrified of Big Band players who parry a hit and then immediately reversal with Beat Extend or SSJ instead of trying to parry a large string of moves.
More people should do that.
 
All my parries are buffered beat extends :)
 
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I find Big Band really scary to play against. There is not a place in the screen where I'm comfortable at.
Also he has amazing assists. I am scared even if he is not in the screen.
 
I'm terrified of Big Band players who parry a hit and then immediately reversal with Beat Extend or SSJ instead of trying to parry a large string of moves.
You're implying most BB players don't do that on accident.
 
You're implying most BB players don't do that on accident.
The truth is that I've never actually seen anyone do it. Most Big Band players should make more accidents, in that case.
 
The truth is that I've never actually seen anyone do it. Most Big Band players should make more accidents, in that case.
The motion for Beat Extend starts with forward, so I get accidental parries pretty frequently while buffering Beat Extend. Most of the time when you see someone parry exactly 1 hit then Beat Extend, that's probably what's happening.
 
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@Flotilla convinced me once upon a time that Big Band is secretly good, and that I am a pile of trash-tier garbage.

Also, I'm certain that you are all as trash-tier as me because Parry is one of those things that have the ability to turn this game into a 3rd Strike-ish OS-filled kusoge if you're godlike enough.
 
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I just can't read 50 pages after just registering here. :p

So what would be a somewhat logic tier-list for this game ?
 
Peacock is great unless you main her.
Val is great unless you main her.
Parasoul is great unless you main her.
Filia is amazing when you play against her.
Fortune is lost in the void.
Big Band is secretly really good.
Painwheel sucks. (Edit: She's a'ight)
Tiers are overall pretty close/every character is viable.

(Personally, for me:
S - Peacock, Valentine
A - Filia, Parasoul, Fortune
B - Big Band, Cerebella, Double, Painwheel, Squigly
Dunno where to place: Fukua
with no specific ordering in each tier)
 
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Painwheel sucks.

:<

Suppose I'll put my who I least like to fight list.

S - Peacock,
A - Parasoul, Cerebella, Fortune, Eliza***
B - Double, Fukua, Painwheel, Squigly, Filia, Valentine, Big Band

This list could change drastically depending on team compostion/size, what assists you have or match specific situations (for instance if Squigly can keep her stances charged, I'd easily~ bump her up a tier)
 
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mmm painwheels pretty good now imo
double sucks. buff double
 
@Flotilla convinced me once upon a time that Big Band is secretly good, and that I am a pile of trash-tier garbage.

Also, I'm certain that you are all as trash-tier as me because Parry is one of those things that have the ability to turn this game into a 3rd Strike-ish OS-filled kusoge if you're godlike enough.

He IS good, just under-explored. Even by me!

It shouldn't have taken me goofing off in making that parry video to find out that holding forward/back = immunity to mid/high crossups, or that delayed Beat Extend gives solo Big Band a three-way incoming mixup, or that cymbal clash is an incredibly useful wakeup mixup tool (that people too often only use for keeping space), or that cymbal's lack of a hurtbox means it's safe to use if you think your opponent will reversal AND you can punish said reversal afterwards with brass > SSJ. BB is criminally under-explored because people see him as Hornet Bomber 2.0 and not much else. Needs to change.
 
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Where do you guys place eliza???
I honestly feel like she's extremely strong against peacock/fukua
 
Where do you guys place eliza???
I honestly feel like she's extremely strong against peacock/fukua
she fails against fukua....she fails hard. i'd place wherever filia is at. but honestly this is too soon. i would like 2 months before an actual placement.
 
Where do you guys place eliza???
I honestly feel like she's extremely strong against peacock/fukua
Waaaaaaay too early. Do we even have match videos of "good" Elizas up anywhere?
 
Really dream? I find the match reasonable. Not good, but it feels do able. Then again, I'm used to dealing with peacock and fukua with parasoul...
 
I know the characters are changing drastically in the beta right now, but lets ignore the beta. In the current retail version of the game, I want to know people's opinions of the tiers. However, I think for this game our tier list should really be based on teams; Who are the strongest teams, what separates good teams from bad ones, are some duos secure enough to not have to be a trio? Anyone can say parasoul beats filia clean, but what if filia has brass h as an assist? pretty sure that changes the match up. Also, feel free to just analyze someone else's team.