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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Can someone explain to me why KK dash got removed again

Pros of KK dash:
- KK Supers don't have some arbitrary advantage (being easier to reversal with, as they don't trigger pushblock)
- Peacock has a far easier time airdashing while holding M.Doom, not being forced to rely on a PPP macro (6 button sticks!! Or people who want to use assist macros..) or stickdash
- People get an additional option they can try out and potentially prefer, if not for everything then at least for certain actions (eg I always iad with the buttons I'm not pressing, as I feel the doubletap to be awkward; so lp+mp ad for iad jHP, and mp+hp ad for iad jLP - obviously this doesn't work for iad jMP, so I'd really like to try out eg mk+hk ad for iad jMP)

Cons:
- ???
- The only thing I can even come up with is that one gets a low attack (cLK) instead of a mid one (cLP) when trying to pushblock nothing, which may be unintended; but that doesn't really sound relevant (nor probably is what people complained about)

Obviously people currently won't use it much, since everyone got used to dashing in a certain way from 3 years of PPdash, but it seems kind of extremely early to revert this change..
Both since people haven't gotten time to get used to it / try it out, and because ideally you'd let a brand new player sit down and tell them about PP and KK dash macros, then ask them which of the two feels better for then

Really, in the end it comes down to "It may not be super useful, but it has some definite ups while I see literally zero downsides, so why remove it?"
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Can someone explain to me why KK dash got removed again
The only reason Mike ever told me that he might is Valentine getting back dash when trying counter.

I don't really care if their inputs suck, I'm ok with it.
 
I thought it made iad kick feel smoother it's not a huge loss for me but I did like it.

I tend to lose my finger placement doing 7 backdash jHK safejump with fortune and KK dash was neat for it. PP jHK is still easy although I did like that KK supers could be baited easier it was nice that all supers were equally easy to mess up.
 
I don't mind it, if only for making KK reversals harder to time on pushblock.
 
guitalex2007 said:
The only reason Mike ever told me that he might is Valentine getting back dash when trying counter.

I don't really care if their inputs suck, I'm ok with it.

this is literally the only issue I had with KK dash and I blamed it entirely on myself for having sucky inputs lol
 
The reason he gave was "Some people didn't like it and pretty much everybody else was indifferent."
 
Jason said:
The reason he gave was "Some people didn't like it and pretty much everybody else was indifferent."
That's the reason he gave at salty yes, but
1) who didn't like it, and why?
2) it is natural that most ppl are "indifferent" after a week of testing, since they learned ppdash movement for 3 years and it takes some time to find things which happen to be more natural with KK
 
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IsaVulpes said:
That's the reason he gave at salty yes, but
1) who didn't like it, and why?
2) it is natural that most ppl are "indifferent" after a week of testing, since they learned ppdash movement for 3 years and it takes some time to find things which happen to be more natural with KK
Steam forums there's been a girl very loudly complaining about it for dayyyyyzzz.

Also he came into the IRC and asked "Does anyone use KK dash" and every person at the time said no. But yeah the 'CuteZ' girl has been very vocal about it.
 
From what I've read the person uses the KK macro to do LK or combo with it for whatever reason.
 
Alright, thanks @Skarmand! I don't visit the steam forums.

Okay, the way I understand cutez person:

She plays on pad
One of her face buttons is an LK+MK macro
She uses that because she apparently has troubles pressing a new button during magic series; so instead she just has to press 2+macro+macro and will get clk>cmk (lower button having priority gives her a clk, but on the 2nd press clk isnt a valid input, so she chains into cmk instead)
- With KK dash this won't work properly anymore, since if she attempts an slk in neutral she will dash, and, worse, if she attempts a jlk, she will get an airdash instead.

.. This actually manages to be a worse reason than the spacebar overheat protocol
 
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I wasn't expecting my link to be that close to reality.
That's highly disturbing.
 
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i got some non-gameplay(?) related thoughts about Beowulf after the stream yesterday

- On the hype meter mechanics, I think it looks weird when the flames are on the screen edges as the screen is moving (like when the opponent is moving while Beo is getting a level.) I somewhat wish Beowulf's pyrotechnical flames would appear at his feet. (Like Order-Sol)
- Also Like Order-Sol, will Beo be getting a displayed meter showing at all times what level of Hype he has?
- The graphics for the Three Wolves for the the Moonsault should probably be spaced out more. The way they overlap just doesn't look right.

On the upside, Hype mode moves look amazingly fun and I can't wait for "gameplay-complete" Beo to get into the beta.
 
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A meter showing what lvl of Hype beo has at all time is not needed, for one it's just 3 lvls all of them are shown quite clearly and are again displayed when you do the AA super or the Wulfmania lvl 3 giving you plenty of time to think up of what moves you can do in that time frame. and two you can always see what lvl you are at just by dropping a mic in mid combo (sure it's a little risky if you mistime the button release but it's a good way to keep track of hype. and also beo can restand an opponent fairly easy so linking into the mic drop shouldn't be all that hard)
 
If I recall correctly, Mike has specifically expressed his distaste for character specific meters in the past. In the same way that Painwheel doesn't get a meter for hatred install, I wouldn't expect Beo to get a meter for his character specific functions.

Also, the wolves look perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with the relative spacing of the three wolves imo.
 
dragonos451 said:
I wasn't expecting my link to be that close to reality.
That's highly disturbing.

There's an xkcd that's relevant to everything. Once you embrace this truth, you will understand the secrets of the universe.
 
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so what does this cutez girl do if she wants to do a combo with punches?
 
Now that the AGDQ Super Metroid race is over, I can post this!
Though really you should be watching Ocarina of Time...

General
- Bugfix: The final hit of Fortune's Lv3 will no longer connect after she is DHC'd out, like all other hits that are not projectiles. Thanks Guitalex.
- Fix another bug with assists coming in the wrong side. Thanks Luweewu.
- Gehenna should no longer show up in Random (and consequently is ignored for World Warrior Princess progress).

Beta Experiments
- Added superjump sound effect that was intended for the superjump experiment but arrived too late. So the sound effect is here now! :^P
- KK is no longer a dash shortcut or pushblock. I didn't like it as a dash shortcut and it caused some problems since other parts of the game were not designed around that, so say byebye.
- Bugfix: DHCing from a throw scales followup combo damage to 70% (1000 dmg -> 700 dmg) if damage scaling was above that, instead of leaving it at 100%.

Beowulf
- More updates to NMO Arena! Cameras after superflash, the stage is bigger (the stage, in the background, not the...stage...), etc.
- Even more colored frames! s.LK, j.LK, j.HP, Canis Major Press, etc.
- Corrected shirt color in P1 palette. VERY IMPORTANT. :^)
- Slamming the opponent on the placed chair with Diving Wulfdog/Grendel Killa/Canis Major Press now adds 250 damage (500 during a super), creates a dust cloud, and gives you the chair back.
- There are now 3 levels of crowd hype, which can be built up with holding s.LP, dropping the mic in s.MP, or taunting. Each level has a different effect, although the effects are not final.
- Having crowd hype levels now lets you add extra grab actions after Wulf Press Slam and Diving Wulfdog during supers! Each level gives one extra action.
- Wulfamania and Alpha Maul display crowd hype effects during their superflashes so you can tell what level you have.
- Blocking or being hit out of ground dash now goes to ground blockstun/hitstun for the full duration. Dash also no longer hops over throws. Attacking puts you in the air and will dodge ground throws like normal.
- Last 9f of a knockdown headbutt/knee are now super-cancellable with a 5f buffer window, to help with combos after them.
- Fix Argus Agony DHC to Gigantic Arm to work better.
- Assists hitting the opponent after Diving Wulfdog or Grendel Killa will put them in air hitstun instead of OTG hitstun.
- Increase damage of Moonsault by about 200.
- c.HP +2f hitstun.
- Fix air Diving Wulfdog to look better when done close to the ground.
- Fix bug in dash forward after Diving Wulfdog -> ground tech.
Cerebella
- Removed wrong vulnerable box from Vice Versa's arm before the active frame of Merry Go-Rilla.
- Diamond Deflector after a successful reflect is only projectile invincible, not fully strike invincible (again).
Eliza
- Ground throw now adds a hit for each of the...hits. Damage distributed differently, same total. Thanks Pizzarino.
Peacock
- HK teleport becomes MK only while assists are jumping in; as soon as they land, she can HK teleport. Maybe this is a little more fair to her while still helping.
- Lenny auto-explodes after Peacock exits Argus, if he has been hit by either the big laser or a little laser. Used to be just the little laser.
- c.MK pulls in on hit, knocks higher vs air.
- Airthrow leaves the opponent closer to Peacock than it did before in the Beta.
- Redid the initial big laser of Argus Agony to conform to new standards; hitbox is active on all frames instead if 1(9)1(9)1 etc as it was previously, should be easier to catch falling characters with; middle hits pull air opponents down slightly, should be more consistent in edge cases.
Squigly
- Lv3 changes: Does not lose hits over time while flying around, slows down over time and homes in better, slowest speed after 50f. Will not disappear without expending the full amount of hits. Number of hits 10->8, damage 4000->3500.
- Added 5f buffer period for links after Arpeggio.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/204119527227796099
 
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IIRC, it's not that mike z doesn't like character specific meter/indicators as much as it requiring extra UI stuff that isn't as easy to apply as people think.
 
i remember a while back they mentioned it was hard to do because of how Otter works and stuff
 
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Updated list. @Number 13
- Pushblock always returns you to neutral afterward, regardless of the direction you're holding. Allows PBGC into moves ending in DB or B, but requires you to pay a little more attention after pushblocking.
- Filia and Fukua have a voice clip on dashjump.
- Filia/Fukua downed and OTG frames are in the same place they used to be.
- Replays now write out the explicit assist number picked rather than the name, to avoid weird problems.
- Training Mode "Drama" setting applies to both players.
- PC doesn't load 8bit art at all, saves like 1/2 sec loading time and 10MB of memory.
- Cancelling into a super just after you kill someone in a 1v1 Down does not cost you the meter, except Big Band's Lv5 because otherwise you get stuck.
- The IPS display in training mode (with Attack Data set to Advanced) now flashes to indicate a Pushblock Guard Cancel opportunity for player 1. Note that this only occurs when you are actually cutting off some blockstun, not every time pushblock ends.
- Drama (undizzy) bar now flashes when full.
- Altered controller side choice screen to be able to display the long names of USB devices for the PS4 version, and probably the PC version eventually.
- Sprite update order now depends on current team order instead of match-start team order. Upshot is that commands like MP+HP+HK, which could be either assist or tag, are now ALWAYS assist whereas before they would vary between assist or tag depending on which of your characters was currently on point.
- PP+K is a valid pushblock command but not a valid throw tech command.
- Controller side choice screen now displays the device names instead of just "Controller 1", like PS4 does.
- Added a number in front of the custom controller names on controller select screen.
- The timer now greys out when characters want it stopped (Daisy Pusher, etc) or when time is about to run out and characters decree that Time Out can't happen (Ultimate Showstopper, etc). In Training Mode, either condition causes it to be greyed out so you can see when they're true.
- Pushblock guard cancel (PBGC) green flash now happens on normal attacks/throws/tags in addition to specials/snapbacks/supers.
- Added a nice slick animation for full undizzy bars.
- In 1v1, first Down lifebar is blue, 2nd-plus Downs are yellow.
- Stunt Double freezes the opponent for 9f longer than in the Real Game while jumping in. There is still a gap where the opponent can react, but it is much shorter.
- Final in-game portrait for Big Band, not recycling an animation frame.
- Assist vulnerable frames before attacking 4f->3f.
- Fix flashing round timer during things like EKG Flatliner in Versus. Now it is properly grey while time-out is disabled.
- Tags now autocorrect like all other special moves, the exiting character will face the correct direction before the incoming character starts their action.
- Fix assists teleporting before landing under certain specific conditions (facing backward and having them blocked for most of their descent).
- Add 1200 health to everyone's lifebar (at 1.0, multiplied by the normal ratios for solos/duos). Lets you live through one more hard hit, gives you a little bit more of a chance vs some optimized junk.
- Double-snap required distance to corner reduced by 1/3. After being snapped, assists must hit the wall within 10f. (Real Game distance is 15f.) Just enough to affect most round-start double snaps.
- Solos will keep up to 1/3 a bar of red health vs a trio and 1/2 vs a duo (none in 1v1). Hitting the solo with a snapback removes all accumulated red health. The solo hitting with a snapback restores 2/3 red health if they hit a point character and 1/3 red health if they hit an assist.
- Characters do not go into preblock vs air attacks, only close ground attacks.
- Characters can block high during jump startup with UB or B.
- Can't shake stagger on counterhit.
- Added superjump sound effect that was intended for the superjump experiment
- Cerebella has a back-of-the-head hitbox in standing hitstuns.
- Cerebella's air regular-hit-frames now have feet in her hitboxes like everyone else does.
- Fix some backward ground techs so they can't be crossed up in the corner: Cerebella's faceup, Double's faceup, Eliza's facedown, Filia and Fukua's faceup.
- Double's Flesh Step will no longer push the opponent for the first 4f that it moves. This means it may have different properties since it crosses behind them 4f sooner.
- Training Mode crossup indicator was showing up for crossing up things that are not the point character, like Napalm Tears.
- Big Band is now able to parry from preblock/block idle/postblock. In 99% of cases this doesn't matter, but in that other 1% it matters a lot.
- Fix bug where an extra wheel stuck around when cancelling Painwheel's Pinion Dash into her Lv3.
- Parasoul's snapback will not set off tears. Now she can snap characters that have tears near them.
- Big Band's Beat Extend can't be shaken for more hits if the point character blocks it, even if you hit an assist. Like Fiber Upper, etc.
- Dead assist characters are now always rendered behind everything else.
- Squigly's HK divekick combos to the 2nd hit properly vs Eliza's cr.HK, and other armored moves if it breaks the armor.
- Painwheel will not unfly if you are already holding 2 Punches and press the 3rd one. She will still unfly if you are holding a single punch and press another, or if you press/release two at the same time.
-Squigly's Sing->SBO works like it is supposed to again, I broke it in the Beta with the undizzy blockable-supers experiment.
- Double's Nightmare Legion now pulls in the opponent with the first hit, like Painwheel's Lv3. Should fix cases where it connected with the first hit but missed the followups.
- Adjust hitboxes on Filia's/Fukua's air knockback frames to match everyone else; they no longer drop out of A-Train -> Lv3.
- Double can chain s.LP->c.LP or c.LP->s.LP, thanks whoever pointed out she couldn't.
- Double-jump startup is no longer throw invincible.
- Characters whiffing hits on their own throw victims do not produce whiff sparks.
- Painwheel's ground HK Buer xx Thresher and air MK Buer xx Thresher now work on everyone. (I can't do this to air LK Buer without changing where the opponent is released to be drastically lower, which would alter lots of followups.)
- Painwheel's Buer Thresher now applies proper damage scaling after the last hit, will no longer scale damage up when done late in a combo.
- Squigly's Seria Tremolo segments retract faster because there are more of them. Now is 2f better on hit than regular Tremolo, instead of being over 15f worse. Still worse on block.
- Remove non-counterhit recovery frames on Filia/Fukua/Double s.LP, and Filia/Fukua s.LK. They were a leftover artifact of Filia being the first character.
- Increase launch height of Big Band's snapback.
- Airdashes can now be cancelled into negative-edge and motion+P+K specials/supers, in addition to regular motion+buttonpress moves.
- As per the Beta Experiment, after pushblock you still return to neutral even if there is blockstun remaining, but you can't call an assist until your
blockstun WOULD have ended normally. You can still pushblock-guard-cancel into attacks, tag, etc, just not assist.
- Ms. Fortune can recall her head between Downs.
- The first 2f of Cerebella's Kanchou slide startup are now super-cancellable, to help with run->super if you aren't perfect with your 2 punches.
- Selective character passthrough (end of Gregor, Beowulf's tackle, etc) no longer happens vs wakeup animations.
- Airborne knockback portion of wall-stick hitstun now has collision with other characters. Fixes some DHC issues with Beowulf.
- Fix abnormally long hitstun caused by trading with Fukua's beta fireballs.
- Sekhmet's j.M would sometimes wrongly count as IPS Stage 1 despite being a ground attack, since it is kind of a weird attack. Now it always properly counts as Stage 2.
- Teching Fortune's/Double's airthrows late no longer puts the teching character on the wrong side. (Global fix for all throw techs.)
- Big Band's j.LK now follows the same rules as other multi-hit highs, rather than only being high for the first hit even if the second hit is the one that makes contact.
- Big Band's ground parry no longer ends up standing in the air vs certain moves like Double's Lv3.
- Eliza's j.MK has correct blockstun for a Medium instead of a Hard.
- Hitstun bar displays after launchers.
- Sekhmet no longer gains meter when her attacks connect vs opponent pushblocking, Fortune's head, or armored moves/another Sekhmet.
- Crouching preblock (only crouching) will now happen vs air attacks, which changes nothing but removes a buggy instant-overhead setup.
- Fix just-frame standing-block-in-air/stop air momentum bug when tapping a button after certain super flashes. You still won't get an attack but you will continue your normal jump arc.
- Double's Bandwagon Rushdown has new dust that possibly more easily indicates which side she's coming from.
- Fukua's super fireball starts closer to her, hitbox expanded downward in the back; now connects fully on both block and hit vs crouching Valentine/Filia/Fukua in the corner.
- Fortune's head hits for Headbutt/Zoom/Sneeze/Nom/golf snapback no longer have corner pushback on Fortune's body.
- Redo the opponent's thrown reaction for Excellabella to look a little more fluid; fix Double's upside-down thrown frames to be in the right order.
- Big Band's LK A-Train is properly throw invincible on the active frame.
- Increase kara window on Big Band's j.HK (to H Cymbal Clash) from 3f to 6f.
- Allow Down to be held for longer after the LK during the motion for Big Band's Satchmo Solo.
- Super-cancel window on Cerebella's Diamond Drop and Merry Gorilla now ends before they go active, like all other command grabs.
- Fix Daisy Pusher armor cancel bug with Painwheel/Big Band/Cerebella.
- Extend Painwheel's F+HK hitboxes back toward her a bit so it won't whiff against close crouching Squigly.
- Fix startup of Lenny so there is no longer a frame after Peacock drops him where he isn't shown.
- Fix blocking bug at the end of Double's Flesh Step.
- Equalize everyone's airthrow to 7f startup, 3f active. Total length on whiff unchanged. Affects Painwheel/Squigly (+1f startup +1f active), Valentine (+1f active), and Parasoul (-1f startup).
- Equalize everyone's ground and air throw tech animation lengths.
- Fix some cleanup errors in Eliza's stand hit low and cr.LK.
- Fix two training mode bugs: The ability to toss your head and subsequently break the tutorial in Punishing, and the Lock'N'Load part of Cerebella's tutorial not counting hits in Beta.
- "Assist OK" lights properly indicate you can't call assists after a PBGC until your blockstun would be over.
- Fix physical extent boxes on Cerebella and Fortune's air block animations.
- Fix stuttering bug with air preblock at specific distances.
- Being hit out of snapbacks now puts you in standing hitstun instead of crouching hitstun.
- Fix Stunt Doubles (alpha counters) in the Beta.
- FINALLY fix the RoadRoller-letting-Peacock-move bug, after two years!
- Valentine's poison counter now properly beats Painwheel's Lv3.
- Valentine faces the proper way after Savage Bypass on block or when it doesn't cross behind the opponent.
- Valetine's counter super will not step out of the corner if she is in the corner, but will still step forward otherwise.
- Valentine's s.MK hitboxes expanded downward and inward so that the 2nd part misses less on crouching characters.
- Adjust the way that s.MK works so that there is no longer 1 frame between several of the hits where if you do s.HK the opponent will recover in time to block it.
- Fixed Argus Agony vs Egret Dive in the Beta.
- The final hit of Fortune's Lv3 will no longer connect after she is DHC'd out, like all other hits that are not projectiles.
- Fix another bug with assists coming in the wrong side.
- Gehenna should no longer show up in Random (and consequently is ignored for World Warrior Princess progress).
- DHCing from a throw scales followup combo damage to 70% (1000 dmg -> 700 dmg) if damage scaling was above that, instead of leaving it at 100%.
- Filia's s.HP /\ j.HP airdash j.LP/LK->j.HK crosses over the opponent again, and s.LK->s.MK->s.HP /\ instant j.HK now hits everyone, even the characters it didn't hit before!
- Filia no longer passes through Big Band if he parries Gregor Samson. Gregor should also wallbounce sliiiightly better when far from the wall, maybe. Maybe not.
- Physical extent fixes.
- Because she's been hanging out so much with Carol, Filia's Ringlet Spike now sticks the opponent in place for 55f once per combo and scales damage to 50%.
- Because she's been hanging out so much with Fukua, Filia's j.HK is once again untechable even when not chained into, but is no longer an overhead.
- Filia's normal-jump backdash j.LK has the same trajectory as IAD j.LK.
- Filia's j.HK is also not overhead when chained into, previously was using Real Game info there.
- Updo assist comes out at the correct position relative to the point character instead of 100 pixels further forward than any other DP assist.
- Taunt is now super-cancellable at any time. You still only get the bonus at the end.
- Taunted Tenrai-ha drop is not used up until you drop a Tenrai-ha, Lv1 and Lv2 items do not get rid of it anymore; Tenrai-ha removed from un-taunted Lv3 item drop choices, can only be dropped after a taunt.
- Argus Agony small laser volley length reduced from 90f to 60f; damage and knockback on big laser increased to compensate. (Argus-item-Argus still works, Argus-LK George-Argus does not.)
- Item drop released during blockstun will not drop until 20f after blockstun ends; item drop held through blockstun can still be manually released immediately after blockstun ends.
- Startup on fake teleport (QCB+K~P) is 6f longer.
- j.MK is now overhead. It's not gonna be a low, and she is in the air, and it's slowish, so we might as well try this for a bit. You pretty much always block it high anyway, but now she gets some mixups with landing.
- Increase hitstun on last hit of Argus Agony's big laser to help the 2nd part combo better now that there is more knockback. Blockstun unchanged.
- Argus Agony's little lasers now pass through Lenny, but still push him.
- Redrew hitboxes on Peacock's c.MK and j.HP to match the effect more closely, they both extend further out now.
- c.HK slides faster, further, and is active for longer.
- c.HP damage 950->900.
- s.HK damage 1100->1000.
- c.MK startup 16f->15f.
- s.MP startup 15f->14f.
- s.LK startup 12f->9f, it's almost like it's a light attack or something!
- LK George is now -2 on block. Advantage on hit still the same.
- Argus Agony unscaled damage returned to approximately the Real Game value; scaled damage still much less than Real Game, and staying that way.
- Airthrow tosses the opponent a bit further away, still possible to combo with falling j.MK (or previously held SoIDs).
- Airthrow leaves them slightly closer.
- s.HP cannonball +1f of hitstun, blockstun unchanged.
- Lenny finally works the way he SHOULD have from the beginning:
--- Explosion always knocks the enemy away from Peacock regardless of positioning relative to Lenny / Lenny's facing direction.
--- Explosion always knocks Peacock and her team members the opposite direction from enemies.
--- If a hit will push Lenny toward the enemy he slides further; if it will push him away from the enemy he slides much less far. This way he stays near them when he is hit.
--- After Lenny has been hit by any little laser from Argus Agony, he will automatically explode when Argus finishes (little lasers from the same-team Peacock immediately bring Lenny's life to zero).
- HK teleport becomes MK only while assists are jumping in; as soon as they land, she can HK teleport.
- Lenny auto-explodes after Peacock exits Argus, if he has been hit by either the big laser or a little laser. Used to be just the little laser.
- c.MK pulls in on hit, knocks higher vs air.
- Airthrow leaves the opponent closer to Peacock than it did before in the Beta.
- Redid the initial big laser of Argus Agony to conform to new standards; hitbox is active on all frames instead if 1(9)1(9)1 etc as it was previously, should be easier to catch falling characters with; middle hits pull air opponents down slightly, should be more consistent in edge cases.
- Cerebella's Diamond Deflector only reflects projectiles, it is no longer a physical hit without reflecting; upon successful reflect, it now only makes Cerebella invincible to projectiles, not all hits.
- Cerebella's Devil Horns invincibility stops after the active frames, super cancel period 8f shorter. (Extra time on both was a mistake in the original script. Ultimate Showstopper after blockstun ends still possible but now a 3f window.)
- Improve the opponent's movement on Cerecopter, maybe. Hopefully followup supers miss less often?
- Lock'n'Load L/M/H damage 1075/1450/1800 -> 900/1150/1400; M version 1f faster startup (combos off s.HP); H version 3f faster startup.
- Excellabella -4f recovery on whiff.
- DHCs into Cerebella's Ultimate Showstopper can now always be jumped post-flash as long as you are not committed to an action.
- Kanchou travels faster when she's going behind the opponent; s.HP->Kanchou now works on Big Band and Beowulf.
- j.D+MP has bigger vertical hitboxes while falling and longer opponent hitstop. Can hit more often and followup more easily.
- Cerecopter damage redistributed, base damage almost the same (-100 or so), fully scaled damage 721->520.
- Merry Go-Rilla no longer strike invincible during startup, still throw invincible on grab frames. Should maybe be invincible on the 1f before the grab but let's see.
- Removed wrong vulnerable box from Vice Versa's arm before the active frame of Merry Go-Rilla.
- Diamond Deflector after a successful reflect is only projectile invincible, not fully strike invincible.
-Widen hitbox on Parasoul's s.MP back toward her body a bit to prevent whiffs in some odd cases.
- Tears tossed within the first 10f of a jump, and then manually set in place by releasing the button, will now appear smaller for 30f and detonate smaller when hit during that time. The smaller detonation has much less blockstun and hitstun, and does much less damage, but might be a better alternative to nothing.
- Parasoul's Silent Scope is now more like the super that inspired it: Startup longer, still not invincible; recovery shorter, -18 on block instead of -48; sniper now waits for a target for up to 60f, and will hold their fire as long as the crosshair is not over anything vulnerable; damage 1500->1750; recovery longer on hit.
- Silent Scope now causes crumple even vs airborne opponents...that might be too good but let's see how it goes.
- Silent Scope now crumples from any height, even Nekhbet Breaker or Valentine's Lv3.
- Silent Scope now allows combos like it used to when it hits a grounded opponent.
- Parasoul's Silent Scope -18 on block -> -20. (Bikes range from +0 when Parasoul is in the corner to +19 if the opponent is in the corner, Scope is always at least -20.)
- Cat Spike no longer floor bounces if you only hit with the smack.
- Decap Attack (hitting the head) no longer gives Fortune meter for hitting the opponent; still gives the opponent meter.
- Painwheel's Hatred Install is now QCB + KK and has an extra 3-frame window to cancel to it during the startup of ground Flight. Painwheel still ends up on the ground if you cancel late. Flight startup itself was not changed.
- Painwheel's ground HK Buer now works like Excellabella/A-Train: Unblockable when opponent is on the way up in a jump; hitbox expanded; active time 4f->2f; super-cancel window very short, ends before active frames; does not cause preblock on ground opponents. (It already would not hit grounded opponents before this.)
- Increase flight speed Forward by 0.5 pixels/frame, Back by 0.5 px/frame, Up by 1 px/frame, Down unchanged. Install no longer makes her fly faster.
- Counter super +5f active counter period, -5f recovery period.
- Adjust angle of air shuriken/syringe tosses. LP is shallower, MP is unchanged, HP is flatter.
- All levels of lag vial only go away if Valentine is hit by a super or snapback, and count down at half speed when she is in hitstun.
- Savage Bypass assist starts ahead of where it used to.
- Air Savage Bypass allows Valentine to move afterward on hit only. Limited to 2 per jump, and they must be different strengths.
- Air Bypass hits for(750/825/900) and scales damage to 66%.
- s.MP all hits combo to s.HP, s.MP->MP drags downward vs air to improve comboability.
- Valentine can counter bursts, with both versions of her counter super.
- Can catch bursts with counter supers, but doing that now scales any followup combo to 50% for both versions. Countering other moves besides bursts does not scale the following combo.
- Mortuary Drop forward movement distance increased by ~90 pixels to help it connect after pushblocks.
- Level 3 won't slide past the opponent, should greatly improve usability.
- Double's Luger +6f blockstun, now is -5 at point blank. Not plus but mostly not punishable.
- Double's s.MP startup 15f->13f, damage 500->550, hitstun and blockstun +4f, recovery -4f.
- Sped up Nightmare Legion. Again. :^)
- Added new super: Monster! (No official name yet.) QCB+KK / 214+KK, places a puddle. If the opponent gets near the puddle it will attempt to attack them. Can be faked out with extended limbs like Testament's trees. Placing another puddle, getting hit, or getting thrown gets rid of any existing puddles unless they have already begun the attack. Puddle startup 15f, remains out for 540f, attack startup 9f.
- Increased minimum damage on Double's car super to 990 from 730.
- c.HP is now a cross between Fukua's and Filia's, with bigger hitboxes, better framedata, vulnerable boxes along the braid, and damage 950->900.
- All Luger bullets are 1.5x as big.
- H Luger bullet travels at a steeper angle, much faster, hits after s.HK in the corner vs everyone now; will only hit after it bounces off the floor; launches grounded opponents; and knocks the opponent much higher, once per combo.
- Hornet Bomber modified: L version 12f startup, invincible through first 2 active frames, 2 hits, doesn't go as high as before, 1200 damage. M version 14f startup, not invincible at all. H version unchanged.
- Lv5 command is now D,D+KK so it does not overlap with Monster.
- Monster does not activate if an invincible opponent touches it, only vulnerable characters; prevents time-outs when it grabs like all other grab supers; animation sped up a small bit; time after bite before opponent drops from ceiling 40f->20f; no longer adds undizzy; damage now 1750.
- Nightmare Legion hitpause for morph hits 8f->9f (Real Game is 15f, this is still quite a bit faster).
- Lower head hitboxes on Squigly's c.LK and c.MP to match the animation better and give her some low profile attacks .
- Tremolo hits low (once, like any other multi-hit low attack).
- On whiff or block, Seria Silver Chord retracts faster and has shorter recovery after the tail fully returns to her.
- Seria Drag'n'Bite -4f recovery (now +11 on hit, -7 on block), can easily link into stand/crouch LP and LK.
- Squigly's Tremolo is no longer projectile invincible, but her head hitbox has been redrawn so that it more closely matches the art. Seria Tremolo still hits low, but regular Tremolo has been reverted to a mid hit.
- Daisy Pusher specifically disallows tagging for 4f after it goes active, all other actions by the enemy are OK.
- Lv3 changes: Does not lose hits over time while flying around, slows down over time and homes in better, slowest speed after 50f. Will not disappear without expending the full amount of hits. Number of hits 10->8, damage 4000->3500.
- Added 5f buffer period for links after Arpeggio.
- Big Band can jump out of the recovery from a successful parry.
- Shortened blockstun on Big Band's Beat Extend, all strengths.
- Big Band's MK and HK A-Train startup -3f. MK A-Train is now only 1f slower than Excellabella.
- Redistribute damage on Khepri Sun. Fully scaled damage ~4100->~3700.
- Added 5f buffer window after L Osiris Spiral to more easily link normal attacks and continue.
- Ground throw now adds a hit for each of the...hits. Damage distributed differently, same total.
- Physical extent fixes
- Fukua's L shadow is immediately ground techable, can no longer be OTG'd after.
- Removed strike invincibility on Fukua's HK drill. Now the assist is not any different! :^P
- Super fireball no longer causes sliding. Ground version is blockable post-flash (air already was).
- Forever A Clone all versions +15f recovery on Fukua (roughly until after the shadow hits); all versions do 750 damage; M version blockstun -3f.
- j.HK scales damage to 90%.
- Drillationship L/M/H startup 10/15/20; H version +6f recovery, strike invincible again on startup, for longer than before!
- (Forever a Clone) All animations are 44f long, L 22 startup before shadow appears and 22 recovery; M 26+18; H 30+14. (From the Real Game this equates to L +8f recovery; M +1f startup, +7f recovery; H +7f startup.) ; L/M/H blockstun 20/21/22f. ; At point blank L is +/-0 on block, M +14f, H +20f. ; M shadow pulls airborne opponents downward faster on block.
- Fukua's 90% scaling on j.HK properly interacts with Lv5's 200% scaling, instead of forcing it back down to 90% immediately.
- She's now putting a bit too much of herself into each one, so she can only create one at a time and she needs to wait for some of the energy to come back to her before she can make another.
- The wraith grants Tension (meter) upon returning to Fukua. The farther the return the more she gets, up to 2x the Real Game meter for travelling the full screen. If the fireball hit (including vs assists or projectiles) you get the most, if it was blocked you get less, and on whiff you get none
- Same DHC-to-grab-super fix for Fukua's Lv5 as was done yesterday for Cerebella's 360. (DHCs into Cerebella's Ultimate Showstopper can now always be jumped post-flash as long as you are not committed to an action. )
- Fix Fukua's HK Drillationship wrong 3f of invincibility as assist.

So now both Squigly and Eliza got buffers for links and Mike said in Salty that's because he has been "adding those to all the rest of the stuff". Is there anybody else with buffer for links?
Why didn't Parasoul get one?
 
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So is it just gonna be a thing to add a five frame buffer to inputs during specials? Or are those special cases? Cause... that would probably help with doing s.hp, runstop, c.mk.
 
Arcana said:
i remember a while back they mentioned it was hard to do because of how Otter works and stuff
RemiKz said:
IIRC, it's not that mike z doesn't like character specific meter/indicators as much as it requiring extra UI stuff that isn't as easy to apply as people think.
Hrmm. I didn't expect that. There's been that bar for hitstun in the training options since vanilla right? Why not reuse that?
 
Zidiane said:
add a five frame buffer to inputs during specials
Holy damn, air bypass needs this. The air dash after it is so weird to do. Sometimes you don't air dash because you pressed too early, sometimes you go above them, sometimes you don't have enough height to continue the combo...
If possible, shuriken toss too, for the sake of double jump combos and resets.
 
I just wish lk bomber in the Beta went a little slower , or had a bit of a higher arc or something. Right now its a lot harder to convert off of mid screen .
 
PandaGirlBingo said:
I just wish lk bomber in the Beta went a little slower , or had a bit of a higher arc or something. Right now its a lot harder to convert off of mid screen .
That sucks how an invincible move is hard to convert from midscreen.
 
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Can we talk about this?This is about Big Band combos

Link to my original post: http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....ando-combo-threadando.906/page-13#post-230294
Icky said:
Did I miss a beta change? I can no longer FOR THE LIFE OF ME get cr.hk otg to hit big band midscreen after a j.mp, j.hp, j.hk where I can do it pretty much every time in retail. I just tried for half an hour to do it once in the beta (and could not do it even once after all that time,) and then was able to go into retail and do it many times in a row.

Any one have any idea what this issue could be? It almost seems like big band is no longer being launched as high, but I don't think I read anything about that in the patch notes?
mcpeanuts said:
You know I've been having similar trouble with my Peacock combo vs Double. Weren't launcher heights normalized or something? I don't think that was taken out when the super jumps were removed, but probably they were both supposed to leave at the same time.
 
I think the only midscreen meterless reversals/non-metered invincible moves that allow meterless follow ups are Devil Horns, Fiber Upper, and Beat Extend. Updo, Draugen Punch, L Hornet Bomber, Upper Khat, Napalm Pillar and Diamond drop (if it still has invuln it counts) require meter and/or specific assists and/or corner push to confirm after them midscreen. Bomber requiring 2 meter to convert may be too much, and could somehow be confirmed off of Monster if its tweaked a little?

Edit: Also the metered reversals/invincible moves that get completely solo follow ups without corner are Thresher, PW lvl 3, Eliza lvl 3, BB level 3, Val lvl 5, Gregor, Daisy Pusher (?), SQ lvl3 (?), PS lvl 3 (?). All others require corner, assists, or are impossible
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Big Band should get launched HIGHER now.
Mike made launchers bring every character to the same height, and hinted that he prefers it that way.

Try whether your v Lightweights combo works on BB now?
I use the exact same midscreen combo against every character in retail, the launcher change made it so in beta it doesn't work on heavies and it's now super tight on medium weights.
 
Just tried out beta and I can totally still do j.MP > j.HP > j.HK > otg c.HK on BigBand
 
RemiKz said:
Just tried out beta and I can totally still do j.MP > j.HP > j.HK > otg c.HK on BigBand
Am I reading this right? If so you've gotten my curiosity as to how this works.
Edit: oh wait, are we talking about Peacock or another character? I always assume you're talking about Peacock for some reason, oops.
 
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