• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Zidiane said:
Anyone have an opinion on Bella's MGR losing hit invincibility? I didn't see anyone talking about it. Realized that It'll no longer be able to grab someone who turtles behind their assist (a lot of people). Is there anyone who feels like this nerf needed to happen? I haven't heard anyone really complain about that move before.
That move actually made the Big Band vs Bella matchup really annoying, so I'm happy MGR is dead now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flotilla, Mr Peck and gllt
Was the change to help that matchup? Was there anything else?
 
I've been noticing losing situations that I normally would win (baiting Beat Extend is what really sticks out). Don't know if it's bad enough to warrant changing it back though.
 
I'm just trying to figure out why it changed.
 
Maybe because its a command grab that you get average bnb damage from the confirm afterwards, has enormous use in both pressure and neutral, it had use as a defensive tool like diamond drop but did not have need of the corner to confirm, maybe it beats meaty lows from the right distance, and maybe bc bella has an oppresive low throw pressure and Mike thought this might help stop anti bella people from bitching
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flotilla, dead and fenster
I agree with the rest with the fact it is a good move that had probably too much for it, but...
cloudKing211 said:
it had use as a defensive tool like diamond drop, maybe it beats meaty lows from the right distance
upload_2015-1-7_17-48-45.jpeg

advanced data can help you not making that kind of silly statement. (yes that's retail)
 
It grabbed pw out of deathcrawl like it grabs BB ssj... So yeah, ill shed no tears for the move.
 
MGR has already been changed again has it not

I remember some Salty changes list with "MGR has no hitbox on the arm at any point, lost some invinc compared to retail, only avoids strikes now" or similar.

Stuff just didn't make it into Beta yet I think..
 
Last edited:
MGR was a defensive tool what?
If mgr is getting hit by downback + assist calls then that's super lame :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zidiane
MGR is hardly going to get hit by assists more than any other grab
If you land a grab, both characters are invincible during the animation
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpeanuts
cloudKing211 said:
Maybe because its a command grab that you get average bnb damage from the confirm afterwards
The most damage you can get off of MGR is like 8.2k, and only by doing one of her hardest chains that leads to a full punish if missed, and only works on certain characters (the only character it works on is Filia/Fukua), the most you'll reliably get is around 7.2k. Compare to 10.2k midscreen no counterhit on everyone, and nearly 13k HCH (MGR gets no damage boost from netting counterhit). She definitely is losing damage using MGR.

has enormous use in both pressure and neutral, it had use as a defensive tool like diamond drop but did not have need of the corner to confirm, maybe it beats meaty lows from the right distance, and maybe bc bella has an oppresive low throw pressure
Those all just sound like things a good grappler should have. The primary function of a grappler is to be scary and oppressive, right? I mean, weakening the Grappler's ability to scare the opponent just seems weird to me.

One of her main Command Grabs has lost all ability to go through hits altogether, meaning she can no longer grab someone through something they mashed, something both other Psuedo-Grapplers can do. Granted, Big Band can only grab people who mashed in the air and Fukua on the ground, but the only thing Bella can beat is grabs only on the ground (Grab Bag can still be grabbed, btw). What does my opponent have to be afraid of without MGR? Now they can mash all they want, and only really have to fear Devil Horns into super, which is disastrous on whiff. This change will make MGR only seen vs a turtling opponent and as a rest tool, essentially making it a more damaging normal grab that'll whiff too close to the opponent.

MGR also isn't the be all end all. If you read that I'm going to grab, you can still vs retail MGR IAD/jump Fly cancel, which ends as badly for you if I use an option that beats it as if you just held up so why not do it if you think I'll grab, and j.hp (Soul, Double)/j.hk (Bella, Fukua)/divekick (Squigly)/j.lk (Big Band), which can all be done on reaction while falling on Bella's head.

Dime_x said:
It grabbed pw out of deathcrawl like it grabs BB ssj... So yeah, ill shed no tears for the move.
It'll still do those things though...? You can't trade with a grab, and since Big Band and PW aren't grab invincible during active frames, they both still get grabbed. And with Painwheel, she moves forward so fast that in retail she would often outrun MGR if it wasn't in active frames during super flash, so you'll still get grabbed just as often (maybe give or take a frame).

IsaVulpes said:
MGR has already been changed again has it not
I remember some Salty changes list with "MGR has no hitbox on the arm at any point, lost some invinc compared to retail, only avoids strikes now" or similar.
Did it? I've been waiting for new Beta updates, but I don't remember seeing that.
 
Last edited:
zeknife said:
MGR is hardly going to get hit by assists more than any other grab
If you land a grab, both characters are invincible during the animation
Basic throws are 7f startup and, while dash>throw and similar are certainly a thing, are mostly utilised in ticks/resets.

MGR has 10f startup and is, by virtue of its range and Bella as a character, the only Groundthrow that is really used in neutral
Plus when using it as a reset tool, Bella usually has to "add" quite a bunch of startup frames to account for the necessary backdash (without which MGR tends to whiff).

It is indeed quite a bit more likely for your grab to get hit by an assist, if it got +3f startup and you do it in neutral rather than while being +5.
 
Grangach said:
Is that sarcasm because I think that's a great idea.
It wasn't sarcasm, it was a quick thought.
 
I was there when the question of why it has an invulnerable box was queried.

She lost the hurtboxes on Vice Versa but also lost the invinceboxes because they're not neccesary anymore. The lack of invincibility just makes this an APPLICABLE move, not a QUITE THE BOMB move.
I recall the invuln at the beginning being there to ensure it wins when up close and beats or doesn't cause sameframe throw, same with that throw invuln section during the grab.


I'm honestly not losing any sleep over it. I'll have to go to training mode and give a write up
 
cant bella still call inv. assist + qcb+lplk >?
doesnt this cover the new 'holes' in the move in beta
 
PandaGirlBingo said:
cant bella still call inv. assist + qcb+lplk >?
doesnt this cover the new 'holes' in the move in beta
Not quite sure what you mean. Assists take 20(?) frames to jump out, which is longer than the entire startup of MGR. Unless you mean call assist first and time MGR so your assist's invuln overlaps with MGR's vulnerable startup, which sounds really hard and I don't think addresses the issues that people are having anyway.

That being said, I don't have any problem with MGR losing the invulnerable startup. There is still 360 to beat defensive assist calls.
 
shrug
I don't mind mgr having less invincibility but if I'm going to get hit by someones assist when I would have grabbed them prior I'm obviously not gonna be happy about it.
 
dragonos451 said:
I agree with the rest with the fact it is a good move that had probably too much for it, but...

View attachment 7622
advanced data can help you not making that kind of silly statement. (yes that's retail)
I wrote it had use on defense, not great or bad, but it has use. Pushblock last hit of multi hit, and read a dash in must be something bella players do?
 
Midiman said:
She lost the hurtboxes on Vice Versa but also lost the invinceboxes because they're not neccesary anymore. The lack of invincibility just makes this an APPLICABLE move, not a QUITE THE BOMB move.
I recall the invuln at the beginning being there to ensure it wins when up close and beats or doesn't cause sameframe throw, same with that throw invuln section during the grab.
I'd rather not describe a grappler's grabs as "applicable" (Grab Bag and Pummel Horse are "applicable"), but that's just personal preference.

And you must recall incorrectly, because trading with a grab is flat out not possible. If a grab and a strike happens on the same frame then the grab wins (you can normal grab Painwheel out of Death Crawl, and probably Big Band out of SSJ too). The only thing MGR needed to not ever lose if connecting on an opponent who could be grabbed was grab invulnerability, since if two grabs connect on the same frame then the winner is decided at random.
 
Last edited:
I think this is my first FEEDBACK* post in this thread (lurk ftw) so, yay? Anyway, regardless of if people think Sekh is broken/verygood/dogdoodoo it feels like Mike intended Sekhmet normals to be realistically punishable if you correctly guess/predict the frame trap. A 2 frame punish window with the only punish option being a throw (which gets scaled cuz, throw) seems mighty strange to me and goes against my assumed idea of how Sekh punishes should work. Yes, Sekh costs meter and doesn't have crazy high/low game but it just feels...odd, why is there such an execution barrier on a mechanic which appears to be based on making a good read. "Oh I know how Woofly plays he will totally go low into axe here, but do I go for the punish I might mess up the TWO FRAME PUNISH WINDOW and take an axe" is IMO, insane. Especially considering how good Eliza is outside of Sekhmet stuff.

I say either make it unpunishable (lol) or a 1 frame punish (lolol) so at least everyone (me) knows Sekh pressure is supposed to be bullshit or make it slightly more realistic to punish Sekhmet if you make the correct read. Even an extra frame or 2 of recovery would make a huge difference.

Anyway those are my 2 cents, flame shield on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sydoh, dead, gllt and 3 others
Snapbacks also beat Sekhmet by the way.

Not it is not always a good, but throw being the only option is misinformation.
 
User warned for being too off-topic and potentially trolling. Messaged may be edited from original.
Stuff said:
This tends to happen whenever an "F" name character gets nerfed so yes.

Oddly enough every "F" name character has been overwhelmingly good.
I can play as umbrella
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please stop doubleposting, if you missed something you wanted to reply to you can edit your existing post. Also, keep on topic!


I'm enjoying the heal-on-snapback change so far, are there any other solos willing to give their input that haven't already?
 
Flotilla said:
Please stop doubleposting, if you missed something you wanted to reply to you can edit your existing post. Also, keep on topic!


I'm enjoying the heal-on-snapback change so far, are there any other solos willing to give their input that haven't already?
OK :-) OK I was joking :p
 
Last edited:
What if snapbacks removed half of the undizzy?

And solos were given an extra snap with qcf+assist input that sends the opponent up or wallbounces and doesn't remove undizzy but can be followed up to go along with the red health recovery?

I kinda like the half undizzy from snapback and really like the idea of solo specific optimization with a wallbounce for more meter at first glance, but maybe that would hurt eliza too much if sekhmet doesn't change...

@Mike_Z
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ClarenceMage
Wasn't the universal health increase a thing? You know makes it a bit more hassle for a solo to capitalize on their hits despite their disadvantage in neutral?

Also indifferent with the snapbacks since it is situational. Prefer the health regen [which had a few balance revisions already], but obviously because it had more practical utility with your play compared to the snapback. Who knows though, maybe the solo snapback will get further revisions.
 
In fact, let's just make ABC launcher ABC otg super do 90% damage. Let's go full Marvel 3.
 
We already rejected going mahvel with the rejection of the Super Jump changes. At least with the general consensus interpreted by Mike.
 
Flotilla said:
I'm enjoying the heal-on-snapback change so far, are there any other solos willing to give their input that haven't already?
I mainly view the change as Mike's covert way of making us use snapouts more.

I find that it adds a new layer to solo-play in a good way, making previous options more useful as well as adding extra ones. It being an active system instead of the previous passive healing makes it less braindead than 'get the hit and do long combo' or 'runaway until I heal up a bit.'

There is now a more strategic value to health than "don't get hit too much". Now you have to weigh the options, for example, between snapping a character for extra health but leaving them with red life to recover, or going for the kill but risking the possibility of getting killed/snapped yourself before attempting to recover health again.

Snapping the assist for 1/3 red health is also useful for a little extra health on top of the usual use to lockout assists.

Being able to snap the last character of a team, regain life, and continue comboing them after the wallbounce is extremely good.

On the team-side, being able to get rid of a solo's built-up red health is powerful, and being about to continue comboing them afterward is always a plus.

But really, I like it because it rewards me even more than before for being a meanie:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X, gllt and Midiman
Broken Loose said:
Yeah, let's increase Solo damage more. Let's just fuckin' make it so that 1v2 is a ToD on any hit no matter what.
The other snap wouldn't recover undizzy, the regular one would give a better reward for intentionally stopping a combo and going for a mixup option that's not as effective as a reset.

For most solo characters it's not worth it to snap out the opponent most of the time to recover health and this would give a better option for meter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zarkingphoton and GrunkleBarlowe
Luweewu said:
Being able to snap the last character of a team, regain life, and continue comboing them after the wallbounce is extremely good.
IIRC, he doesn't want that to stay.
 
Oh shit I overlooked that potential. Too bad that probably won't stay then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back