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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

if possible could it be that if J.HK connects fireball would get its old stun back or something more than it already has? it is weird how it only works on block now
 
Mike_Z said:
Again, you can still doublejump, but getting a falling attack off a fireball (for full conversion etc) was the 2nd part. :^P
But the question is, can i double jump in time before they punish my whiffed lp fireball? Can you make the lp fireball maybe go more straight down? And you ignored my double jump 2nd fireball part ^_^ It is beta... it wouldn't hurt if she can't block on the way down after air fireballs
 
DeathArcana said:
if possible could it be that if J.HK connects fireball would get its old stun back or something more than it already has? it is weird how it only works on block now
Yeah, so I'll fix the "on block" part. :^)
 
i'm totally out of line to ask this since you did already this much.

but is there a chance to tweak the decayed hitstun slightly? i'm not asking for the old hitstun cause that's just being full of nonsense. but can we get a slightly larger window (like j hk>airfireball and the fireball is deployed right when we get on their head as opposed to full jump height and still conversion) but only if j hk hits(this sounds character specific?)

or you can just brush past me. no biggie.

Edit: could we avoid cross up material if the air L fireball's trajectory was tweaked or not?
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
things
- I'd like to avoid "this move works this way ONLY when done out of this other move on hit" level of specific junk whenever possible. (Cue Vulpes pointing out it already exists somewhere, I'm sure.)
- You can combo off a divekick just fine by...letting the divekick finish. It's still safe on block, too! I do not think she in ANY way needs to be able to put out a projectile that severely limits the opponent's movement by randomly getting in the way AND be safe AND be able to easily confirm that into a combo. Yes, this means you have to decide to throw a fireball or not rather than autopiloting j.HK->fireball every time. I do not think that is beyond human ability to decide, nor unreasonable to expect people to do. It requires some thought, which in that situation she previously did not. To me that is not a negative.
- You can also still combo off a divekick->LP fireball if you do the fireball so it hits at point-blank on the way down from the divekick.

I removed exactly what I wanted removed, which is the autopilot bit you want back. You have yet to give a good reason beyond what translates to "I was used to not having to think there".
 
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Mike_Z said:
- I'd like to avoid "this move works this way ONLY when done out of this other move on hit" level of specific junk whenever possible.
But but, I thought we agreed on Fortune Headroll after Ground Super becoming non-invincible ;_;
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Plz git gud dreamepitaph
I sort of resent that summary. If you're just going to gloss over "you're still able to combo and be safe by just not throwing the fireball" as "git gud" then why should I bother providing reasons or justifying anything?

IsaVulpes said:
But but, I thought we agreed on Fortune Headroll after Ground Super becoming non-invincible ;_;
That's actually not the same thing. :^P
 
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nah man its a joke(a poor one to you most likely. Basically you're telling me you can still do fireball conversion but you must absolutely be smart about it. just a new learning experience to me and i like re-learning things about the characters i pick.
 
Tomo009 said:
Peacock doesn't really seem like that to me... she plays poorly from a truly neutral situation, she wants advantage, she wants you to block. Peacock doesn't care so much about where you are on screen, just that she has you caged or not. I guess you can call that zoning in a different sense that she keeps you stuck in one zone, but it isn't the word I'm looking for, it is the concept I'm trying to convey. Peacock does not fit the concept of the character I am trying to play.
This is pretty off topic and if there's a better place for me to make this post I can move it over there, but I just gotta say, this is exactly the kind of thing I want to do in the fight games, but most games don't have a character who works like this. Most airdashers either don't give you zoning tools that do chip or don't let you kill people with chip, and slower more footsie based games normally don't let you fill the entire screen with fireballs. I think Peacock has sort of ruined zoners for me forever because everything else just seems less fun. The closest thing I can think of is UMVC3 Morrigan, but she's attached to a game I otherwise don't care about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Dreamepitaph said:
nah man its a joke(a poor one to you most likely. Basically you're telling me you can still do fireball conversion but you must absolutely be smart about it. just a new learning experience to me and i like re-learning things about the characters i pick.
Hey twerk, help me learn Fukua.
 
mcpeanuts said:
this is exactly the kind of thing I want to do in the fight games
To continue the off-topic, if that's really what you enjoy then you OWE it to yourself to play MvC2.
You can put both Spiral and Cable on a team with Sentinel drones and it becomes a zoning team good enough to win Evo.
 
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Mike_Z said:
To continue the off-topic, if that's really what you enjoy then you OWE it to yourself to play MvC2.
You can put both Spiral and Cable on a team with Sentinel drones and it becomes a zoning team good enough to win Evo.
Oh my goddddddddddddd that's so many fireballs <3
 
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Mike_Z said:
To continue the off-topic, if that's really what you enjoy then you OWE it to yourself to play MvC2.
You can put both Spiral and Cable on a team with Sentinel drones and it becomes a zoning team good enough to win Evo.

"Consoles SUCK"

Almost 10 years later, and people are still pressing pause during Marvel. :(
 
Good thing we have a tournament mode
 
So, now that we sort of have doom rocks, can we get sentinel drones as an assist? Maybe call 2 George's with 1 assist call?
 
alexpi said:
So, now that we sort of have doom rocks, can we get sentinel drones as an assist? Maybe call 2 George's with 1 assist call?
Nope
 
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Fukua Beta Experiments... 'bout time to be done with Fukua, innit?
- Can't cancel her airthrow recovery with specials, either.
- Fukua's fireballs' blockstun is never longer than hitstun would be. Thanks DeathArcana, even though it wasn't what you wanted. :^P
- Fukua's ground fireballs now have longer hitstun; hitstun still deteriorates as they travel, but it is ~8-12f longer than air fireballs.
- Fukua's ground fireball recovery +5f, advantage on hit/block similar to what it was originally because of longer hitstun.
- Fukua is in regular fall after air fireballs again. It was a bit much not to be able to attack or block.
- Fukua's air MP fireball now bounces, it was the only one that didn't.
- Comboing after any of Fukua's regular fireballs scales your damage to 50%. (Thanks FukuamanDS, of all people!)
- BFFs no longer combos off any version of drill, but now combos off ground fireballs instead.

new stuff!

so what did MMDS (fukuamands) do?
 
Wait for robo fortune.
 
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Up yours peanuts. Ima make team clockwork in Skullgirls.
 
50% scaling means you get like 5kish for 1 bar on something like a footsie MP xx M fireball confirm into BFF (extremely range dependent) or like 2.7k or so + slide knockdown for a confirm into super fireball (the confirm is also way less hairy).

If the idea with the damage reducing confirmable hitstuns on fireballs is to let you confirm into solid BFF combos off normal xx fireball footsies I think it's not enough hitstun in the current beta. Given how weird the hurtboxes on old characters are in SG with an elbow with a hurtbox sticking out and undulating with the breathing animation etc. you are constantly going to be running into stuff like the hitstun deterioration making it so a MP xx M fireball xx BFF only works if you hit the MP halfway down the hitbox on standing but not crouching Parasoul, 1/3 down the hurtbox on blah blah.

If the idea is for you to usually confirm into fireball super for knockdown oki I don't see why you need to scale the damage.

Edit - Aight, worked with it some more. Basically, for BFFs to connect off a normal xx fireball you need to cancel into it while the fireball is still in flight - in that case it almost always works aside from like hitting with the extreme tip of a c.hp. So you need to visually confirm the hit of the normal and immediately put in the BFF, which is a learnable skill so it will probably work fine. There's also probably no good way to make it super easy considering you have design stuff that can't be worked around like making BFF safe-throwable.
 
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I've been thinking, I understand that you don't want 'mash dynamo' to be the best option in every situation but I feel like Bella's anti-air game is a bit flimsy right now after this nerf. Especially against characters who have invincible air supers.

Maybe a small buff to Excellabella's ability to be used as an anti-air wouldn't be out of the question. Maybe some longer active frames so that its easier to hit people with it? The hitbox and startup are already really good.

Obviously Excellabella has no invul frames, so you have to do it as an early anti-air, but its hard to time correctly because of the short active frames.



On the topic of Fukua, 50% damage scaling on her ground Fireballs like a weird nerf since they're kind of difficult to combo from in the first place. 50% scaling for air fireballs is perfectly understandable.
 

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The dynamo changes fixed the problems I had with it before. Just have to get used to being unable to dynamo some resets and forward jumps now.
 
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She has an airthrow, good air-to-air priority, a super that still (just not on the first frame) hits air, an invulnerable pseudo-dp in the form of devil horns, and excellabella which is unavoidable if you make a good read...

I feel like the complaints in this thread are repeated slaps in my dear sweet Carol's face (especially if you keep in mind that these air supers like Thresher are punishable on mash at all but pointblank ranges).
 
I think Fukua players or whoever Mike is considering the opinions of are making a mistake on the comboable throw vs untechable KD throw.

Does the fireball poof away when the hitstun hit 0 or is it a never 0 equation?
 
Mr. X said:
I think Fukua players or whoever Mike is considering the opinions of are making a mistake on the comboable throw vs untechable KD throw.

Does the fireball poof away when the hitstun hit 0 or is it a never 0 equation?
.....so you want a combo throw....that uses up dizzy...........that you have to reset....regardless....vs...a situation that allows safe jump-ins, safe setups.........dude you crazy.(though I LOVED doing the super corner conversion)

EDIT: might I add, a throw that really doesn't have BNB conversion for all characters....nah
 
Mr. X said:
I think Fukua players or whoever Mike is considering the opinions of are making a mistake on the comboable throw vs untechable KD throw.
If it's strictly a "Pick one or the other, and the rest of the character stays the same" deal, .. yeah.

I sort-of figured it would be / is a "You can get comboable airthrow and nothing, or hard KD airthrow and these five buffs to her zoning" kinda thing.
And there I get buffs / less nerfs to the things I care about, while also increasing the overall coolness factor of the character cus hard KDs are pretty swell and rather rare in this game.

Obviously the combo-out-of-airthrow is way stronger; Dreamepitaph is on crack or something.

Does the fireball poof away when the hitstun hit 0 or is it a never 0 equation?
Both hit- and blockstun have a minimum (that is still pretty high).
 
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I didn't get any hint that the air throw wasn't separate from the fireball stuff.
 
Mr. X said:
I didn't get any hint that the air throw wasn't separate from the fireball stuff.
Mike didn't say anything about it, but it's rather clear that the combo-out-of-airthrow is better, and Mike will be able to see that, so I doubt he'd go "I'll leave it up to Fukua players whether I make their character A-Tier or B-Tier".

Dreamepitaph said:
Prolly i just like the idea of having a situation where i control what i want
The question is rather simple -- which of the following two is better:
- 2k damage into a telegraphed 50/50
- 3k damage into either further 3k damage or one of ten non-telegraphed 50/50s

Yeah untech KD is cooler, but stating it's better is kinda lost?
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Mike didn't say anything about it, but it's rather clear that the combo-out-of-airthrow is better, and Mike will be able to see that, so I doubt he'd go "I'll leave it up to Fukua players whether I make their character A-Tier or B-Tier".


The question is rather simple -- which of the following two is better:
- 2k damage into a telegraphed 50/50
- 3k damage into either further 3k damage or one of ten non-telegraphed 50/50s

Yeah untech KD is cooler, but stating it's better is kinda lost?
here's the problem the conversion doesn't work on all casts. i know what you're saying and i would agree HOWEVER i've tested the conversion on every single character and like 4 of them are a no go. sorry man but people PICK those characters (yes bella... oh boy bella and i think big band and double and i can't remember if it worked on squigs or not if it did then 3 people escaped out of the conversion)
either way this buffs are cool enough for me.

for me stating which is better. a buffering for LP fireball into a uncertain conversion depending on what you do (do not include the full jump throw set up its gimmicky).

or would i want my opponent to stay in the corner? or inevitable cross up or 50/50 or even better a special something that no fukua really does.

TL;DR i want to train my opponent and keep meaty pressure. not a unreliable conversion unless done at full jump height. and in band's case is not even worth it
 
The problem I've always had with Fukua is that her ground game is great but her air game is j.HK. If anyone chicken blocked and properly push blocked she could not do anything but air throw to set up her ground game again, but for a properly timed throw, she gets nothing but the chance to do a mixup.

Being able to super from it was neat. It also didn't work against everyone (air super Drill would, though, but again outside of corner or DHC she can't continue, same as current retail throw into super).
 
He has point with the comboing after air throw didn't work on everyone. I think I said in the Fukua thread, if Mike made it somehow possible to combo everyone out of it, they should take it.
 
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