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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Apex said:
Tumbling run has always beaten H luger, I don't see why Robolazor needs changing
Because multihit attacks are supposed to beat out armored attacks? Also not sure why you mentioned H Luger, maybe you mean L?
 
high beam will still beat out armored attacks though

since when is that bella move hard to deal with

she gonna reflect da beam anyways

afk
 
alexpi said:
I'm not entirely comfortable living in a world where MMDS can be right.
He's right a lot...

Negus Eyoel said:
could someone explain this to me though?
The long spikes stick out for 3f before they become active. She missed with the tiny immediate hitbox because she was too high, and then got hit before that happened. No armor anything.

Mr. Botchamania said:
I don't know if this is really gameplay related but why was the guitar solo in NMO Arena removed? The guitar sections were the best parts of the song and now it seems like it's been muffled or just straight up removed in parts.
Because the people writing the song made it that way, and the other version was WIP? (This is why you don't normally get WIP music.)
[edit] If you want more of an actual answer, the other version was like 5 minutes long, which not only would only be heard in training mode since it is longer than the match timer, but was also bigger filesize than the biggest other music, which we do not have the memory for on consoles. So it got shortened to y'know be able to be put into the game as opposed to scrapped.

SonicFox5000 said:
Can Eliza get a buff on her Standing L.K? It looks like its missing one more small hitbox and makes combos in the corner unreasonably harder because of how small it is when it looks like it should go slightly further.
That's on purpose, it's already disjoint and huge.
 
RemiKz said:
Because multihit attacks are supposed to beat out armored attacks? Also not sure why you mentioned H Luger, maybe you mean L?
Whoops, edited.
H beam does the job
What he said.
 
Mike_Z said:
The long spikes stick out for 3f before they become active. She missed with the tiny immediate hitbox because she was too high, and then got hit before that happened. No armor anything.
the thing is if you look closely that bb loses a sliver of health, implying that he did armor something (sorry if you can't see because of video quality). unless the tiny immediate hitbox isn't supposed to be a hitgrab
 
Negus Eyoel said:
the thing is if you look closely that bb loses a sliver of health, implying that he did armor something (sorry if you can't see because of video quality). unless the tiny immediate hitbox isn't supposed to be a hitgrab
OK, so the spikes are 1f a hit and then 1f a grab right after (like ABA's keygrab). So he got hit by the hit, and then hit her the very next frame and didn't get grabbed.
 
Mike_Z said:
OK, so the spikes are 1f a hit and then 1f a grab right after (like ABA's keygrab). So he got hit by the hit, and then hit her the very next frame and didn't get grabbed.
ok, so my question is can it be changed into a hitgrab from frame one? scenarios like this is very silly especially when i'm the one who bait the super and i'm the one getting punished for it
 
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Apex said:
Whoops, edited.

What he said.
Tumble Run is low enough to where not all hits of HP laser will hit her because of how her hurtbox moves around during the animation.
 
RemiKz said:
Tumble Run is low enough to where not all hits of HP laser will hit her because of how her hurtbox moves around during the animation.
Guess I missed that video earlier.
 
So the preblock on the ground change extended preblock from 200 pixels to 275. Does anyone know how many pixels the grids are in training mode? I just want to know so I can work on setups and stuff.
 
Just messing about randomly in practice mode, HP+LK gives assist one but HK+LP gives assist two. Would it be possible to change HK+LP input to give assist 1 not assist 2? I assume this happens as the game looks for button hierarchy/priority while looking for assist inputs (probably wrong though) but if it's possible please make this a special case since HK+LP is often intended as an assist 1 input and doing HK~MK+LP is decently tricky on a six button stick.

Or I could just git gud but you know, internet.
 
I've already asked for this. Mike said no.

If I understood this correctly you want what I wanted in this thread.

It's similar to it anyway.
 
Negus Eyoel said:
ok, so my question is can it be changed into a hitgrab from frame one? scenarios like this is very silly especially when i'm the one who bait the super and i'm the one getting punished for it
There's a reason it is like it is, but I don't remember why.
 
Mike_Z said:
There's a reason it is like it is, but I don't remember why.
well if you do not remember then it is clearly not important enough and in that case you should make it a hit grab from the first frame because that makes way more sense then the current state.
 
Negus Eyoel said:
well if you do not remember then it is clearly not important enough and in that case you should make it a hit grab from the first frame because that makes way more sense then the current state.
I just looked at the script...and it is a hitgrab from frame 1. So now I dunno what happened. :^P
You can test yourself with Sekhmet, she turns back on the first frame she gets touched.

[edit]
Okay, after some further testing, this is what happened, and you can reproduce it pretty easily.
Big Band is invincible after his superflash, during the hitstop frames only, to ensure he doesn't lose to overlapping projectiles instead of trading.
DHCs do not have hitstop, but he is still invincible after the flash for that short time. So on a DHC, Big Band is invincible while the opponent can act.
Painwheel's super start is 2f hitgrab, then 1f regular hit (for assists etc, because it can't be both).
PW's super, done frame-perfectly after the DHC, held him in place with hitstop while he was invincible for the first frame of hitgrab, and then released him for one more invincible frame during the 2nd hitgrab frame, and then he became vulnerable and got hit by the hit frame.
Tada!
 
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Stuff said:
I've already asked for this. Mike said no.

If I understood this correctly you want what I wanted in this thread.

It's similar to it anyway.
Except it isn't similar to what you ask for at all?

Here's why I ask for this:

The way I understood the rules of assist inputs were that light and medium normals give assist 1 and medium and hard normals give assist 2.

Let's check how these rules end up!

LP~MK gives assist one.
LK~MP gives assist one.
MP~LK gives assist one.
MK~LP gives assist one.

MP~HK gives assist two.
MK~HP gives assist two.
HP~MK gives assist two.
HK~MP gives assist two.

So far these rules look quite good. Let's see what happens at a weird position.
LK~HP gives assist one.
LP~HK gives assist two.
HP~LK gives assist one.
HK~LP gives assist two.

Why is there this weird discrepancy and not following the intuitive and (at least to me) obvious rule?

I tried to think and came up with another idea as to how the idea of assist inputs works, and I thought, "Hey this might be so that each level of button has the ability to go into two assists," and while that theory works for medium normals, it breaks down for lights and heavies.

LP~MK gives assist one, while LP~HK gives assist two.
LK~MP gives assist one, while LK~HP also gives assist one.
HP~LK gives assist one, while HP~MK gives assist two.
HK~LP gives assist two, while HK~MP also gives assist two. (EDIT: fixed mistakes)

So from further re-evaluating how the inputs pan out, I suggest this change.

The assist calls depend on both the first input as well as the second input.
If the first input is a heavy, then doing a light with it gives you assist one, while doing a medium with it gives you assist two.
If the first input is a light, then doing a medium with it gives you assist one, while doing a hard with it gives you assist two.

In this case, 'with it' really actually means plinking the input, since you can't really check which input came first if both came on the same frame.

I do realise this would mess with macros but I don't see what can be done about that because of the method of implementation of assist call inputs. or they could just stop playing on shitty pads and join the stick master race :^)

Or we could have assist inputs separate but that makes playing on six button sticks a bit of a pain since you can't call assists, and I know Mike has been opposed to having separate assist inputs in the past and I doubt he will change his opinion now.

EDIT: I also realise that 'git gud' is also an option with regards to this problem. However from what I can see it isn't a terribly popular opinion to have here when it comes to problems like these :^)
 
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Is the intuitive and obvious rule not:
"It doesn't matter which order buttons are pressed, light + medium = A1, medium + heavy = A2, and the 2 combinations of light + heavy are each A1 and A2 so that you have equal representation for A1 and A2."?
Because that's how I see it and it seems pretty intuitive. If you went back to your first request, then you'd have 4 combinations for A1 and 2 for A2.
And if you do it this new way, you're killing macros. Which seems dumb.
 
it seems to me the intent is to have assist calls for either assist on all 3 punches so you can assist+special with both assists and any version of punch special.

slightly sad for kick specials, but a priority had to be decided on
 
Yomabudd_y said:
Why is there this weird discrepancy and not following the intuitive and (at least to me) obvious rule?
Because made-up rules don't necessarily apply in reality?
Only the combination of buttons matters, not the kara-order of said buttons.

LK+HP was added so that pad players SPECIFICALLY could call assists with buttons by using face+shoulder for both assists.
LP+HK was added because it felt weird that it didn't do anything.
That is the only reason either of the L+H combinations exists, and also the reason they are opposite calls.

And even if something were odd, it ain't changin' at this stage.

End of this whole thing thank you.
 
Mike_Z said:
I just looked at the script...and it is a hitgrab from frame 1. So now I dunno what happened. :^P
You can test yourself with Sekhmet, she turns back on the first frame she gets touched.

[edit]
Okay, after some further testing, this is what happened, and you can reproduce it pretty easily.
Big Band is invincible after his superflash, during the hitstop frames only, to ensure he doesn't lose to overlapping projectiles instead of trading.
DHCs do not have hitstop, but he is still invincible after the flash for that short time. So on a DHC, Big Band is invincible while the opponent can act.
Painwheel's super start is 2f hitgrab, then 1f regular hit (for assists etc, because it can't be both).
PW's super, done frame-perfectly after the DHC, held him in place with hitstop while he was invincible for the first frame of hitgrab, and then released him for one more invincible frame during the 2nd hitgrab frame, and then he became vulnerable and got hit by the hit frame.
Tada!
fair enough, at least i have an explanation as to why what happened happened. thanks for clearing that up
 
So, I just noticed that using a standard grab into Wulfdog doesn't KO

I was doing a test local match to listen to quotes and noticed that, at the very least in 1v1, using a non-super Wulfdog from the basic grab doesn't kill the opponent when it's still their first life. I unno if it kills on the last, but it's something.

If it mattered, the opponent was Cerebella
 
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TechPowah said:
So, I just noticed that using a standard grab into Wulfdog doesn't KO
Ya, already fixed locally. Wulfdog and uh F+P (name ha) wouldn't KO unless you have used up all available actions.
 
Yomabudd_y said:
Are you sure it's not just a problem of "git gud"? I mean I don't have the best keyboard execution (my wpm is in the 60's on good days) and I can do it like 8/10 without any practice.
Echoing this sentiment. 360's were one of the things I checked out when I first got a hitbox, just to see how different they were. I had no problems doing any 360's in SG after about 5 minutes of practice.
 
zarkingphoton said:
Echoing this sentiment. 360's were one of the things I checked out when I first got a hitbox, just to see how different they were. I had no problems doing any 360's in SG after about 5 minutes of practice.

I've done a lot more than 5 minutes of practice across multiple games, and it doesn't change the fact that it's easier in games like BlazBlue... again, likely because of

worldjem said:
if you go back to neutral for more than 2 frames as you're trying to do the 360, your 360 motion becomes invalid.

It's easier in other games because those games don't care if you went back to neutral.

Why is this the case? Is it related to 360 jump protection?

You CAN do 360s on keyboard in SG, it isn't impossible and I'm not implying it is; it's that it takes a larger amount of muscle memory to do them reliably and comfortably compared to other fighting games (that aren't SFIV; this isn't related to SFIV allowing you to do 4 random cardinal directions and get a 360). Seeing as Skullgirls' design philosophy has been all about removing execution barriers (when doing so doesn't introduce new issues), this is something I'd like to see changed. Alternatively, I'd like to be shot down by an explanation as to why "If stick returns to neutral for >2f, no 360" can't be done away with, or made a little more lax.
 
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Then quit going to neutral for more than 2f? Try rolling your fingers. It's like being a good typist.
 
It's not that it's hard for Flotilla's poor widdle fingers to do, but that SG does a thing with 360s that lots of other fighters don't, and this hinders KB players for benefits(?) that aren't immediately obvious.

I am suggesting removing 360 invalidation if the stick returns to neutral as a quality-of-life improvement for KB and hitbox players and (if nothing else) would like an answer as to why that can't happen, instead of "try practicing for another 40 hours at this motion you've done for years".

If it needs to stay for something important, then I'd totally understand! But as of right now I don't know why it's there.
 
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I like that I don't jump when I go to 360, plox don't remove this...
 
Apex said:
I like that I don't jump when I go to 360, plox don't remove this...

I didn't say that the two were related, that was a guess on my end. That's what I wanted an explanation on.
 
I guess instead of throwing shit at Flotilla, why not just try it in beta? Crazier things have been tried (fly motion to unfly).

If it fucks shit up... revert it.
 
Oh forgot to mention this a while back as I remember someone saying something about this. Any reason you can't just hold up to follow up after a Fiber instead of a kick? I mean was it a thing before or ever? And if so any reason it was taken out? I'd like to follow up just by holding up and i don't think that would be too crazy to ask for.
 
ReSpAwNz67 said:
Oh forgot to mention this a while back as I remember someone saying something about this. Any reason you can't just hold up to follow up after a Fiber instead of a kick? I mean was it a thing before or ever? And if so any reason it was taken out? I'd like to follow up just by holding up and i don't think that would be too crazy to ask for.
Easier to get accidentally by screwing up a DP motion likesay ending it in UF, s'why it is something you explicitly must do as a separate thing afterward.
 
It hurts your hand when you do it 1 million times each match considering it's how you get her best resets and it's her mobility option a dp everything you do is fiber upper.

I AM Fiber Upper.

(Guess which buttons are scratched the most? Answer: LK and MK. MK is the most scratched out of both)
 
Stuff said:
It hurts your hand when you do it 1 million times each match considering it's how you get her best resets and it's her mobility option a dp everything you do is fiber upper.
You know you can just do LK~MK or MK~HK or HK~MK and get it, right? It doesn't have to be the same button.
 
that's why both those buttons are scratched the most.

I do LK>MK so it still hurts the same amount

somehow MK got scratched more for whatever reason

edit: I don't really mind how it is now but I would like to point out that this does hurt my hands after a while and I don't play for too long (usually just an hour or so)
 
So if that's the case any harm in trying it in beta? I mean if we don't like it then we could just revert it back.
 
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