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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Mike_Z said:
Yu-Wan be a little more specific/useful as to why not?
Blocking UF and/or UB from completing down up charge moves is just making a move already strict to get out in reversal situations stricter and more unsafe since you need to leave the safety of back when you already lost the safety of downback to try to do it. I am unable to wrap my head around people getting quake/pillar after crHP instead of SJ whatever. Sounds like autopiloting or panicking/anxiety.

B to DF removed for Parasoul: Egret Feint Pillar lost, Napalm Shot recovery might be longer enough for Pillar to charge. Everyone else? Probably nothing if DB DF F is still a valid B F + button input for specials.

B to UF removed: Can't think of any good applications where this is worth keeping. Back to UF to air to air or air throw is a good thing.

B F B (or U D U) + BUTTON no longer special: This just sounds like it wound feel weird and be clunky when playing since this ends the input buffer early?

I think most of the charge changes will mess more people up than remedy (and mess up those people to). I don't think people realize how often they are already back to holding back when they press the button for a B F charge special or complete D U special moves with UB or hit DF on the way to F from DB.
 
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Mr. X said:
This just sounds like it wound feel weird and be clunky when playing since this ends the input buffer early?
As a point of fact, it doesn't. B...FBF+button would still be fine. Just not B+button. So it's not the buffer. :^P

I agree with most of that, but I think removing UB/UF/U/D is fine, if you leave DF/DB.
 
Imho, charge moves should stay the way they are. Ive never had a problem with getting a pillar after a launcher. I can see how it is done, but this just seems like one of those situations that isnt really a problem, yet would create more problems than it solves with its inclusion. I know for a fact that not allowing pillar to be done rom u/b or u/f would adversely affect my parasoul game, at least.

Also as far as superjump launchers are concerned i always had trouble with getting out an aerial shuriken with val instead of the jumping punch, after i hit my opponent with a launcher. Correctable by not rolling the motion for jump, but still way more of an issue for me than getting out unwanted pillars.

But i can only speak on my own circumstances.
 
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Ok here are charge-move caused input hassles I've had:

1. Parasoul charging db, trying to Toss, ending in UB ([1]2147K): Getting Quake/Trigger/Pillar
- This is actually my most common input mistake, as quickly flicking a QCB starting from downback often has me end in UB accidentally
I think this is fixable without breaking anything by giving Toss priority over Pillar?
Pillar would still happen on [1]47HK (as this is not a full QCB), and most times when going from Down/DF to UB (whyever you would do that) eg [1]247 or [1]257 as again, neither of these are proper QCB inputs
All -that I can see- this changes would b [1]2147K and [1]232147K, and I don't think anybody uses either as a Trigger/Quake/Pillar input ever?

2. Parasoul getting Egret/Tearshot after charging, then trying to Dash-Button
- Probably the most well known one. I already do [4]664P, but I still have this happen rather often.
I did think one could fix this by just forbidding charge moves to come out, but aye that would block out 646P "quickcharging". Umpf.
One could probably do this for K? as in, 1/4K can never give any Egret - since Quickcharging after Egret is far less of a concern. But that leads me to the next point..
I don't really like [4]3P not giving Tearshot, if alone because then I get used to this but still have the same issue with standing normals :/ <- same thing of course then for 1/4K vs. 1/4P.
I don't know if it would be possible to do something like "4P can't give Tearshot if you are in the middle of a dash"?
I presume not, but that's the only other solution I could come up with (as this is a problem mostly centered around minidashes).

3. Parasoul charging - getting Launch into Tearshot instead of Launch into UF-jButton
- This is a silly one that mostly pops up when I'm 3/4 asleep.
I don't think this one is really an issue, but yeah "UF doesn't give Charge Normals" also fixes hilary's mention (of DB into UF Airthrow; woops Trigger), so that seems nice
The only thing I could see this "break" would be [AA cHP, delay 9, confirm hit/block/whiff, minidelay HK],
where you go from AA Launcher into Upforward to combo, and on block/whiff you cancel the cHP into Pillar as a 2nd AA.
I don't know if anyone does this / it's too hard for me, but I presume possible for a good player?

4. Bella dbcharge into DDrop - getting RunStop
- This is again decently common
'twas the original complaint; will happen when pushing the buttons a nudge too early (very late 23 LPLK 6 still gives DDrop) -
where normally negative Edge would come to the rescue, in Bella's case you get a Run-Stop during the DF part and then the 6 just gets ignored.
DF not giving charge moves should be fine for her I think? Don't know what it could break..
.. other than of course, sloppy Run inputs.. and we don't know how common these are, yet. I could see eg [1]3HPHK6 being a decently common input mistake?
 
Oh my goodness why does Pillar have priority over Tear?! BAD 2012 Mike Z!
Uh. So I can do this for individual attacks, would it make sense for HK pillar > tears > LK/MK pillar, since you often use LK/MK tears and HK pillar? How often does this come up with whatever button?

It is also possible for me to make B+button (or even not-F/DF-and-button) not give charge moves during a forward dash, although I don't know what people would think of that. ?
 
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I would prefer Toss > Quake/Trigger/Pillar period, as the biggest issue is actually attempting to toss midrange H Tears and whiffing Pillar on accident - after which I lose a character (and as mentioned, I can't really imagine someone trying to input Pillar with a TKd QCB motion*, so I doubt it's going to break something).
They all happen roughly as often as each other, but Pillar is obviously the most dangerous one to whiff.

B/DB+Button (or Not-F/DF+Button, which might be easier.. and I can't really think of a downside) giving attacks rather than charge specials *only during Dash* sounds exactly like what I'd want (as accidental Shots/Egrets 99% happen after Dash-Button for whiffpunishes etc),
but of course I don't know if this breaks something for somebody somewhere (or even for myself, and I'm currently forgetting about it / don't know as I'm doing it subconsciously).
This would remove Dash into "quickcharge" Tearshot, but how often do people use that?! On the very rare occasions that I Dash-Tearshot at all, the last idea I'd get would be to make it less reliable by moving my stick away from F first.

*This is coming from a guy that gets Excel by accident while trying to MGR, heh
 
IsaVulpes said:
*This is coming from a guy that gets Excel by accident while trying to MGR, heh

To explain that one:
6hltwot9.jpg


This input (when done quickly enough) will result in Excellebella

Man, I would prefer if it didn't /\
 
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For the Para charge, what about crossups?
the thing that will be affected the most is Para getting crossed up while trying to do charge move.
if a certain direction prevents charge specials it can be very game-deciding.

also I can't get enough advantage to get the tear toss block string to work in retail. Is there a video?

another thing. One thing I liked from UNIEL was that it was a flat 4f across the board between valid inputs for a motion, but apparently in SG it's 8f for non-adjacent directions? UNIEL felt a lot better in terms of not accidentally getting DP from tap dash whereas SG feels like it takes forever for the DP validity to go away so much that I sometimes don't attempt 236 motions out of fear of getting a DP.
 
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I thought it was already fixed in retail.
 
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Pretty sure it was fixed in Eliza patch because Mike wouldn't tell us if it was still in when tourneys are coming up.

Fake edit: It's in the Eliza to Beowulf notes. Hmm.
 
Tear toss ~ j.LP is 23f minimum

I was testing it on standing and crouching valentine. On standing valentine, doing the hold to set the tear manually and hitting j.LP to detonate it gives me about +17, more if I do it lower, but then that means I have to wait longer after my jump. In all cases, it's not a true blockstring that you can loop into itself, so that's why I'm wondering what the setup is for this.

The math I'm seeing doesn't hold up.
 
worldjem said:
SG feels like it takes forever for the DP validity to go away so much that I sometimes don't attempt 236 motions out of fear of getting a DP.
Mike_Z said:
Do a HCT if you need to differentiate, you will never get a DP. Should be the case for every DP with an overlapping QCT. (BB even stole this.)
Your Hitbox makes this hard though sometimes though.

41c7cf0d5c.jpg
 
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worldjem said:
if a certain direction prevents charge specials it can be very game-deciding.
Only if it happens at neutral, and UF/UB won't affect this much.

worldjem said:
also I can't get enough advantage to get the tear toss block string to work in retail. Is there a video?
Nope. But I never said it was just [TK toss, j.LP]xN, just that TK toss was a part of it.

worldjem said:
so much that I sometimes don't attempt 236 motions out of fear of getting a DP.
HCT will never be a DP, Skullgirls has had this since vanilla. Not my fault you don't use it. :^)
 
Mike_Z said:
HCT will never be a DP, Skullgirls has had this since vanilla. Not my fault you don't use it. :^)
Isn't it a bit backwards to say "no special move should ever be a half circle yada yada fighting games with HCFs suck" and then write "well, just use half circles to not lose the game through whiffing your DP on accident"?
Not to mention that in games with HCs you can generally fumble your inputs a bit and be fine, while the HCFs here have to be perfect (64236P + 61236P, as well as 64123P6 (which in 'a game with HCFs' would presumably count as neg.edge HC) all give DP)..

I try to use it, but I still fail this quite often cus like, HCFs are hard and all, right!
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Not to mention that in games with HCs you can generally fumble your inputs a bit and be fine, while the HCFs here have to be perfect (64236P + 61236P, as well as 64123P6 (which in 'a game with HCFs' would presumably count as neg.edge HC) all give DP)..

I try to use it, but I still fail this quite often cus like, HCFs are hard and all, right!

play UNIEL carmine
 
There's times when I want wavedash ringlet, consciously do 41236P after the 662366/dash, and still get an Updo.

Really only have myself (or I guess my DS4/USB controller) to blame at that point.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Isn't it a bit backwards to say
"No special move should REQUIRE a half circle in order to be performed" and "if you are an advanced player and would like to ensure correct input for moves where QCT/DP overlap and the difference can't be solved by timing, we offer a half-circle as help" are not mutually exclusive at all, no.

Just when I thought I could stand you again...
 
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IsaVulpes said:
61236P.

Doing this actually gets me what I want most of the time. I do half circles when I want to hold a Squigly Charge in neutral (to catch them with either daisy pusher or opera) just to make sure I don't get DP on accident. In fact I have the opposite struggle of getting DragNBite instead of run up dp/PBGC DP sometimes haha.

tfw you get hornet bomber instead of dash c.lk
22zDbKU.png
 
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Whoa haven't been on in a few days. Is there a link to the post of the new major change people are debating on?
 
Mike_Z said:
"No special move should REQUIRE a half circle in order to be performed" and "if you are an advanced player and would like to ensure correct input for moves where QCT/DP overlap and the difference can't be solved by timing, we offer a half-circle as help" are not mutually exclusive at all, no.
But it is required. If you ever have the audacity to hit 6 at any given point, and need to get a 236 motion out shortly thereafter, you are forced to do a perfect half circle in order to get a 236 motion, or you will get DP because the buffer time for a valid DP is enormous.

If a sloppy half circle allowed for a 236 motion, such as the ones vulpes mentioned, then it wouldn't be an issue. If I can simply hit a back direction to eliminate the DP motion's validity, then I would use that, but that is not the case. Not only does it require you to do a perfect half circle, but you also need to do it very quickly in order to get a 236 motion out ASAP after hitting 6.

You either have to do a perfect half circle, or wait for the buffer to end. The former is easy to mess up and get killed for, and the latter shuts down part of what the character can do.

It is not required to do a half circle to do a 236 motion in the general sense, but it is definitely required, and demanding, to do a perfect half circle shortly after hitting 6 in order to get a 236 motion.
 
It would certainly be a good start!
 
Yeah... I suck at PBGC DP as Cerebella too. My success rate with it has been horrible I always get LNL lmao

Man all these cheating hitbox/keyboard players having trouble with random stuff very nice.
 
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Oh I forget that us three use Dualshock controllers. (And we're all in a row, how nice)
I forget about the hcf thing at times, which actually would be useful for me to use more. I can't tell you the amount of times I'll just try to run up Ddrop but do excellebella.... I also can't tell you how many times the accidental excellebella actually got them. It's like I'm 50/50 mixuping myself.
 
Knowing that you can always half circle also makes it so that I can do forward-forward qcf and get dash reflect with cerebella or half circle to get diamond drop*. Really useful to be able to do that so easily, though it feels kinda obvious lool
 
I wish I had a dollar for every time I tried to do dash up diamond drop/ringlet and got excellabella or updo. Keep forgetting about the half circle thing.
 
worldjem said:
If you ever have the audacity to hit 6
Hi? I'm done with you until you're less...this.
In many other games you do not have a way to control it at all (cue "I can't control it!") like UNiB in the example you just gave. In SG and KOF you can choose, and that's it. Yet you continue complaining because that way to control it is somehow too difficult for you, even though I constantly get argued with for my stance against half-circles.

The input buffer time will not be getting shorter because we also have scrubs that play - see that whole 360 discussion that happened right before your unreasonableness.
SG gives you 5f between consecutive directions and 8f between non-consecutive directions, and you can do a half circle to choose.
Third Strike gives you ten frames between any directions, and you can't choose.
 
Was it intentional that Monster has a +50 undizzy CH bonus where other supers don't?

(it does in beta)
 
I request that Valentine's second s.LP have its hitbox extended downwards slightly to hit crouching Filia/Fukua and Double. It works fine on everyone else.
 
Any chance 2 kicks for dash will ever make a return? I know for those who may have keyboard issues, that update was a godsend for playing air dashers, not really sure why it got removed.
 
Barkynobiteme said:
Any chance 2 kicks for dash will ever make a return? I know for those who may have keyboard issues, that update was a godsend for playing air dashers, not really sure why it got removed.
Not likely, nope.
 
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ClarenceMage said:
I request that Valentine's second s.LP have its hitbox extended downwards slightly to hit crouching Filia/Fukua and Double. It works fine on everyone else.

i think it's likely their hurtboxes.

you can't hit cornered + crouching filia with headless fortune IAD jLK sometimes because reasons?
 
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