Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

[Adeveis]

Wait can Peacock not teleport when an assist is on screen or can she not teleport when her assist is locked out? cus the former is kinda severe.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

getting punished by car for deflecting a luger would kinda suck. Oh right, that's too gimmicky. What wouldn't be, humm...
Oh right...

Actually, you should have enough time after the reflect in that scenario to devil horns through the car. With catheads though, devil horning may let you avoid the car but once that invincibility ends, cat heads are immediately hitting you.

 

[IsaVulpes]

Wait can Peacock not teleport when an assist is on screen or can she not teleport when her assist is locked out?

Both.

 

[Jason]

Wait can Peacock not teleport when an assist is on screen or can she not teleport when her assist is locked out? cus the former is kinda severe.

She can't teleport BEHIND when there's an assist on the screen or when the assist is locked out.

She can still teleport in front which everybody is forgetting to mention.

 

[mcpeanuts]

I had time to go home during lunch and test out the changes for like 10 minutes and yeah triple Argus is no longer possible, that is in fact what the patch notes meant. Although I think you get a teleport mixup by doing Argus, drop item, throw George, Argus, teleport. Didn't have time to test how tight a mixup it was, maybe it sucks.

 

[Hilary]

@gllt Most important is that Val can link a 3/4 to 7/8 screen hp dead cross and convert on hit with hk bypass. The best part is that you can wait for the confirm to input bypass, and it will still combo :)

New bypass is neat, but I'm trying really hard to not get used to it in case it's too good/repetitive and gets removed or changed.

But man oh man new cross angles. <3 <3 <3

 

[RemiKz]

I had time to go home during lunch and test out the changes for like 10 minutes and yeah triple Argus is no longer possible, that is in fact what the patch notes meant. Although I think you get a teleport mixup by doing Argus, drop item, throw George, Argus, teleport. Didn't have time to test how tight a mixup it was, maybe it sucks.

I was trying that actually. You have plenty of time to jump and avoid any derpy mixup.

As for my impressions of the changes:

In terms of Peacock, it feels really weird not having an attack do what it's supposed to do. I assume the teleport change was to not allow assist + teleport mixup, yet not a fan of how it was implemented.

If this change really must stay, instead of having your HK teleport not work how its supposed to while you are locked from calling an assist, why not have it so it doesn't work during the time you input the assist command until the very end of the assist attack?

Like the taunt changes.

I lament the loss of triple argus, although you can still do it from specific distances from the corner. It's really weird having to get used to the difference in laser hits. Not a big deal though.

She does not need j.MK to hit overhead. It's also kind of visually confusing since the attack comes out from under you.

Deflector on Cerebella losing the hitbox isn't that big of a deal. I didn't think it was a big deal having the hitbox but meh.

 

[dekillsage]

She can't teleport BEHIND when there's an assist on the screen or when the assist is locked out.

She can still teleport in front which everybody is forgetting to mention.

This is an invitation to get bodied though lol

 

[Lem]

Why does Painwheel have/need pinion dash?
Give it to someone who needs more things.





Like Double. : )

 

[dekillsage]

yeah give double air pinion dash so I can confirm my air to airs better that'd be
solid
thick
tight

?????

 

[KhaosMuffins]

I wouldn't worry about the damage that Val is getting in the beta. I don't see why Mike wouldn't adjust it.

 

[Lem]

yeah give double air pinion dash so I can confirm my air to airs better that'd be
solid
thick
tight

?????

'Good!'

c:

 

[SonicFox]

getting punished by car for deflecting a luger would kinda suck. Oh right, that's too gimmicky. What wouldn't be, humm...
Oh right...
The 325 times I had to block brass assist after deflecting against peacock/BB.


uh, what is the point you're trying to get here? I wasn't talking about BFF reversal abilities (that are worse than diamond drop and costs a bar), I was talking about fukua command grab (-_0)
I understand you want to say that fukua is cheap, I can agree with this no problem, but maybe try using good arguments for that?

DD isn't a reversal. Also when I said command throw, I meant I want to be able to combo after diamond dynamo anywhere. If fukua LANDS her command throw then she gets a full combo anywhere. If bella lands hers, she needs Double to combo off of it. And her confirm from it before was a just frame. Fukuas isn't.

 

[Jason]

This is an invitation to get bodied though lol

I guess being up in your opponent's face while they're being locked down by your assist is a bad thing? I don't think so. I mean obviously its not as good as a full-screen 50/50 but fuck plus-on-block full screen 50/50's. Seriously.

The teleport 'lockout' should probably only last until the assist start's its taunt though. Not being able to teleport behind because your assist got snapped is kinda weird.

And why would Double need better air-to-air confirms? wut

 

[Jason]

DD isn't a reversal. Also when I said command throw, I meant I want to be able to combo after diamond dynamo anywhere. If fukua LANDS her command throw then she gets a full combo anywhere. If bella lands hers, she needs Double to combo off of it. And her confirm from it before was a just frame. Fukuas isn't.

Yeah but Diamond Drop is still 4 frames faster and throw invincible and Fukua still has to spend meter to convert off of her command throw so its not like she gets to do it for free. Also Fukua doesn't have MGR which is kind of a big deal.

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Converting off of Diamond Dynamo anywhere would be a unnecessary buff. The damage output (with Titan Knuckle if not near the corner or no assist to continue combo), giant hurtbox, plus moving them (hopefully) towards the corner is enough for a level one.

 

[dekillsage]

I guess being up in your opponent's face while they're being locked down by your assist is a bad thing? I don't think so. I mean obviously its not as good as a full-screen 50/50 but fuck plus-on-block full screen 50/50's. Seriously.

The teleport 'lockout' should probably only last until the assist start's its taunt though. Not being able to teleport behind because your assist got snapped is kinda weird.

And why would Double need better air-to-air confirms? wut

lol what do I have to worry about when peacock calls an assist if she's always going to teleport in front of me. Go ahead teleport. I'll throw you, I'll hit you and your assist, I'll block. It's w/e

Double's only air to air move is slow and at random heights you get nothing off it, or you have to fridge which takes away your otg and doubles amazing optimal 7.1k damage combo shoutouts to that amazing damage output.
At the very least something like that would make it easier idc

 

[SonicFox]

Yeah but Diamond Drop is still 4 frames faster and throw invincible and Fukua still has to spend meter to convert off of her command throw so its not like she gets to do it for free. Also Fukua doesn't have MGR which is kind of a big deal.

True, but both of them need to command throw you into the corner to get a free combo. and no they are both 4 frames :O
and fukua always has meter lol

 

[Adeveis]

True, but both of them need to command throw you into the corner to get a free combo. and no they are both 4 frames :O
and fukua always has meter lol

pretty sure fukua's got changed to 8 frames

 

[IsaVulpes]

If this change really must stay, instead of having your HK teleport not work how its supposed to while you are locked from calling an assist, why not have it so it doesn't work during the time you input the assist command until the very end of the assist attack?

The idea of HK teleport just not doing anything rather than giving an MK teleport sounds okay at first but then .. rather weird. Especially if you input something wrong and get 2147HK, what is that? Four directions (ending in upback!) and a button, and you get nothing; char just stands around on the ground?

I do think that Fake Teleport instead of MK sounds more logical, but that has very different frame data etc so it might end up being the "worse" choice?

and no they are both 4 frames :O

Fukua cmd grab was slowed down to 8f startup with Eliza patch

And why would Double need better air-to-air confirms? wut

Cus her only seen-as-relevant air button is j.HP, and you can't convert from that properly.. quite often (sometimes Fridge works, sometimes I think Barrel does, at point blank j.HK generally offers something; but overall it's unimpressive - and if you try to Fridge at a spacing where that doesn't work, your character is dead)

 

[Hilary]

Why does Painwheel have/need pinion dash?
Give it to someone who needs more things.





Like Double. : )

Break

The

Law

 

[dekillsage]

We got a criminal

 

[SonicFox]

Ah I didn't see that it got changed to 8 frames. But isn't it still a 50/50 when she gets the hit though? I mean its no different than bella when she hits

 

[Lem]

I hope you guys are ready for Doubles eye laser hold button delayed oki anti mash set ups which does 2k + soundstun on CH

 

[Dhoppler]

- Taunt is now super-cancellable at any time. You still only get the bonus at the end.

Ok.

- Taunted Tenrai-ha drop is not used up until you drop a Tenrai-ha, Lv1 and Lv2 items do not get rid of it anymore; Tenrai-ha removed from un-taunted Lv3 item drop choices, can only be dropped after a taunt.

Ok.

- Argus Agony small laser volley length reduced from 90f to 60f; damage and knockback on big laser increased to compensate. (Argus-item-Argus still works, Argus-LK George-Argus does not.)

Ok.

- Item drop released during blockstun will not drop until 20f after blockstun ends; item drop held through blockstun can still be manually released immediately after blockstun ends.

Play smarter. Panic less. Stay on your toes. Ok. I like it.

- Both startup and recovery on fake teleport (QCB+K~P) are 6f longer. That means more startup invincibility, and you can still combo off the bomb easily.

It's a pretty easy to throw move and just as easy to dodge and continue pressure so I'm not sure what this will accomplish, but maybe I'm just thinking about air dash characters and it's uses at point blank range. Does this mean it takes 6f longer for the bomb to come out too?

- If any assist is on the field or locked out (i.e. Peacock is unable to call an assist), Peacock can't teleport behind her opponent; HK teleport becomes MK teleport instead. Solo Peacock / Peacock with all teammates dead can teleport behind at any time."I don't like it!" Okay. It's still the current experiment, and is nicer than the other idea. :^

What was the other idea? This one sounds horrible. Mainly for when Peacock is in the corner, but mostly because why shouldn't she be able to teleport behind somebody just because an assist is locked out? I'll try it, but I doubt I'll like it.

- j.MK is now overhead. It's not gonna be a low, and she is in the air, and it's slowish, so we might as well try this for a bit. You pretty much always block it high anyway, but now she gets some mixups with landing.

Weird. But, ok.

 

[RemiKz]

The idea of HK teleport just not doing anything rather than giving an MK teleport sounds okay at first but then .. rather weird. Especially if you input something wrong and get 2147HK, what is that? Four directions (ending in upback!) and a button, and you get nothing; char just stands around on the ground?

I do think that Fake Teleport instead of MK sounds more logical, but that has very different frame data etc so it might end up being the "worse" choice?

I think my wording might have been confusing.

I was suggesting that instead of having HK Teleport behave differently during the entire duration that an assist is locked out, instead have it so it behaves different from the time you input the assist to the time the assist's attack is complete (or leaves the screen after being hit). Kind of like how you can't call an assist while performing a special attack but backwards.

Didn't think about having it do Fake Teleport or just flat out do nothing instead of MK teleport in these situations. Not sure why having the 214HK input just flat out not do anything would be an issue. If you used your assist and you know HK teleport won't do anything, why would you be inputting 2147HK?

 

[Hilary]

I hope you guys are ready for Doubles eye laser hold button delayed oki anti mash set ups which does 2k + soundstun on CH

I main Carmine and play on a DS4 I'm fucking ready

We got a criminal

Exploding

Fucking

Teacup

 

[Cadenza]

lets have double fly why don't we? *mumbles*

 

[Ein Blitz]

Hey, can I make a small suggestion?

When someone tags out, can you make it so that corpses stay on the layer behind them during their tag out animation? This is no big deal on most characters, but Big Band's corpse frame is really tall, and tagging out some characters (like Peacock) can vanish behind him, making it easy to get smacked by the character tagging in.

Spoiler: Basically stop this

 

[Dhoppler]

I can get behind that.

 

[RemiKz]

So spooky

and halloween is over already

 

[IsaVulpes]

But isn't it still a 50/50 when she gets the hit though? I mean its no different than bella when she hits

Yeah, it doesn't really matter for resets.
It matters for:
- Neutral situations (Now loses to opponent's normal grabs when done at the same time)
- Pushing it during opponent's resets (DD and old Fuk Grab aren't exactly reversals, but you can still just hit them sometimes since many resets have a gap of 5f+)
- PPBC things
Stuff like that

What was the other idea? This one sounds horrible. Mainly for when Peacock is in the corner

That's kinda why? Why should a character with top neutral whose presupposed weakness is defence have the best corner escape in the game (and easy safe 50/50 mixups from fullscreen to boot)?

I kind of like the idea that Peacock actually has to bother with space control rather than just jHK abd jHP, Bomb Bomb, Assistcall, Teleport -> repeat

I think my wording might have been confusing.

Yeah, I completely misunderstood that, sorry!

I think I like it the way it is (no Teleport during entire assist lockout period).

Not sure why having the 214HK input just flat out not do anything would be an issue. If you used your assist and you know HK teleport won't do anything, why would you be inputting 2147HK?

My base idea was something along the following:
- You call assist, it gets locked out
- A bit later, you see your opponent jump, expect him to airdash j.HP, think the lockout time is over by now, and input HK Teleport to get away
- You still had 1-2f left on the lockout timer, get an MK Teleport and hop right into Filia's arms

This would be kinda mean, so instead having the 214HK input just *do nothing* (much like pressing LP+MK just does nothing even when you can't call an assist) would be nicer?
But that too could quickly end up confusing and runs into issues with input mistakes etc

So I figured maybe have it do Teleport Fake instead of MK Tele, that's "logical" (You get a 'failed' teleport if you do it at a wrong time) and probably less punishing (as you stay where you are rather than moving forward, and you get that bomb to possibly cover you) - but maybe the different frame data (longer startup, longer recovery) actually means that this would be worse than MK Tele?

Why does Painwheel have/need pinion dash?
Give it to someone who needs more things.

Like Double. : )

I like this thought

When someone tags out, can you make it so that corpses stay on the layer behind them during their tag out animation?

I *really* like this suggestion.

 

[SonicFox]

idk I just need Fukuas damage nerved and not to kill me in one reset *COUGH @dekillsage COUGH*

 

[Colossi]

If bella lands hers, she needs Double to combo off of it.

you can do DD > titan knuckle + H bypass call > dash c.mk.
H Bypass™ the most solid assist in the game

 

[Hilary]

you can do DD > titan knuckle + H bypass call > dash c.mk.
H Bypass™ the most solid assist in the game

or or or

orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

shit i can't say he wants to keep it a secret but other characters' assists can do it too

 

[fenster]

Random, but why does Bella reflect not work on Eliza Chaise but Parasoul Egret Dive stops the chaise? I thought Reflect would work too. @Mike_Z

On that note, can someone test what happens if Parasoul's Bike is on top of you and a Tearshot is about to connect as well? Apparently Reflect only makes you invinc to projectiles now, which would mean the Reflect happens but the Bike still grabs you? That'd actually be kinda big.

From what I tested the Bike still doesn't grab. The reflect won't beat out the egret, but it totally dodges the egret if the reflect hits first.

 

[RemiKz]

It just seems kind of excessive to me that peacock can't use HK teleport while tied to the assist lock thing, especially if her assist gets hit which will result in not being able to use HK teleport for a while.

Just seems like over-nerfing something when there is another solution that fixes the problem (assuming the problem was just teleport + assist mixups)

 

[Broseidon Rex]

Random, but why does Bella reflect not work on Eliza Chaise but Parasoul Egret Dive stops the chaise? I thought Reflect would work too.

Isn't it because the chaise has a hitbox on it and isn't classfied as a straight projectile? Meaning bella can't reflect it but like other hits, the egret can take one before he goes away?

 

[Hilary]

It just seems kind of excessive to me that peacock can't use HK teleport while tied to the assist lock thing, especially if her assist gets hit which will result in not being able to use HK teleport for a while.

Just seems like over-nerfing something when there is another solution that fixes the problem (assuming the problem was just teleport + assist mixups)

Pillar/Updo call + teleport is reactable, has to be done from a pretty close range, and is relatively risky compared to other assist + port options.

If I had to guess, this has more to do with Peacock + LnL than other assists

 

[fenster]

Isn't it because the chaise has a hitbox on it and isn't classfied as a straight projectile? Meaning bella can't reflect it but like other hits, the egret can take one before he goes away?

I'd assume if it was a hit, then it'd be like a Physical hit to the Egret where he immediately stops, but he still goes and dives on after the Chaise. I dunno.