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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I fucking hate peacock, but the teleport nerf seems a bit much. Peacock is a character that needs the ability to port out of bad situations.... But it shouldn be free.


So... I like the nerf. But i think that peacock should get some recompense, like a faster hk port when her port is allowed to crossup. So no assist crossup, but a good non assist teleport. Its kind of the best of both worlds while still being a nerf to runaway, call assist at corner and teleport and runaway to the other corner.. Aka swift fox dashes style of peacock, as well as au folks style (folks uses raw teleports though, but not having to worry about teleport crossups would make it easier to deal with raw teleports)

And as far as not crossing up... Peacock still gets to port in behind an assist that is locking down the opponent... So it doesnt seem to bad on paper. She just doesnt get 5 screens of space to runaway from for near free.
 
wow that peacock nerf sucks. This change will just make her way less fun. Teleport crossups = Fun. Look at skarmand the whole reason he played her was for teleport crossups. Also the item drop thing, why? People can just avoid the item drop. Now we'll be rewarded for blindly going in even when she has item drop held?

I would just nerf her damage, or make her unable to super cancel gunblade, idk.
 
Dagwood said:
wow that peacock nerf sucks. This change will just make her way less fun. Teleport crossups = Fun.
You can still do teleport crossups

People can just avoid the item drop. Now we'll be rewarded for blindly going in even when she has item drop held?
What?
 
Dagwood said:
Also the item drop thing, why? People can just avoid the item drop. Now we'll be rewarded for blindly going in even when she has item drop held?
You can still drop the item after blocking it's just not braindead anymore.

Dagwood said:
I would just nerf her damage, or make her unable to super cancel gunblade, idk.
Holy shit this would be so much worse than the nerfs she actually got. Please do not suggest changes for my character.
 
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Yeah that makes me sad, I honestly feel Peacock's mixup game is pretty bad. Not being able to use assists with her teleport only hinders that more.
 
Hilary said:
Pillar/Updo call + teleport is reactable, has to be done from a pretty close range, and is relatively risky compared to other assist + port options.

If I had to guess, this has more to do with Peacock + LnL than other assists
Which my suggestion fixes without crippling the move more than it needs to be
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
Yeah that makes me sad, I honestly feel Peacock's mixup game is pretty bad. Not being able to use assists with her teleport only hinders that more.
this is a good day for all non-peacock mains <3
 
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Argus damage nerfed? Hallelujah! God that super was so dumb cause of that damage.
 
But that's sort of was Peacock's thing, hard to get a solid hit in but if she did it hurt. And now her assistless BNB does under 7K, that's...... sad.
 
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Swiftfox-Dash said:
But that's sort of was Peacock's thing, hard to get a solid hit in but if she did it hurt. And now her assistless BNB does under 7K, that's...... sad.


Hard to get a solid hit in? She gets solid poke hits all day. Hard to get a... Hitconfirm? Kinda true. If you dont use updo/pillar/beat extend, like your team. And use all that meter you have to confirm argus for like a billion damage.

Its the way you play peacock that makes her the way she is. If you spent more meter on assist pickups and used assists that she can convert more easily... You wouldnt have the problem that you have as far as hitconfirms go.

And lots of characters have had there level 1 supers nerfed in damage that were doing ridiculous damage. Fortune got otg after super taken away, painwheel deathcrawl got damage nerfed, and filia Fenrir was damage nerfed as well. This damage nerf just seems to be in keeping with the status quo of nerfing super high end damage from certain level 1s. I wouldnt be surprised to see it follow along to ssj eventually.

I didnt mean this as snarkily as it comes off. But peacocks ability to chain supers, get free poke damage and teleport mixup from anywhere and teleport out of the corner all while making lots of meter needs toning down in some respects.

I dont know if the current changes are the way to go, but something along there lines certainly is.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
Also Argus getting a damage nerf is pretty nasty too.... just tested and my combos do about 1-1.5K less now.
that's a LOT of damage...
 
Dagwood said:
wow that peacock nerf sucks. This change will just make her way less fun. Teleport crossups = Fun. Look at skarmand the whole reason he played her was for teleport crossups.
Wow please don't degrade my play to.... Oh wait
Ya u rite.

The real reason I don't like Peacock anymore is cuz she doesn't care if you're going to reversal, she doesn't care if she fucks up her burst bait and flies away, she doesn't care about your insane footsie spacing, she doesn't care about trying to get past your assists and open you up.

Up back JHK call assist throw bombs argus argus freeze ice storm you and your assist are dead.

Peacock just doesn't give a flying fuck about your options because hers are so godlike imo.
/rant

Also I don't care about this peacock nerf but boy do I love more exceptions.
Let TJ tele cross up if the assist was called during a combo so you can use it as reset and mix up.
Same for off throw for sliding knockdown oki.
 
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Swiftfox-Dash said:
Also Argus getting a damage nerf is pretty nasty too.... just tested and my combos do about 1-1.5K less now.
Good. GOOOOOOOOOOOOD.
lKxXy7G.gif
 
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Swiftfox-Dash said:
But that's sort of was Peacock's thing, hard to get a solid hit in but if she did it hurt. And now her assistless BNB does under 7K, that's...... sad.
I have 2 different combos midscreen that both do over 7k (I think one was doing 8k?) with 1 meter and no assist.

Also Skarmand your avatar is a phony

EDIT:
LP, MP, MK,
j.HP, adc, j.LK, j.HK,
j.MP, j.HP, adc, j.LP, j.MP,
MP, HK, HP SoiD (no hold), dash,
LP, MP, c.MK, c.HP, MP Bang, Argus
7.2k

LP, MP, c.HP, HK, HP Soid (no hold),
j.MK, j.HK,
j.MP, j.HK,
j.HP, adc, j.LP, j.MP,
LP, MP, c.MK, c.HP, MP Bang, Argus
8.2k

The damage nerf was pretty heavy... but lol she still doing damage

EDIT2:
LP, MP, c.HP, HK, HP SoiD,
j.MK, j.HK,
j.MP, j.HK,
j.LK, j.HK,
j.HP, adc, j.LP, j.MP,
LP, LK, MP, c.MK, c.HP, HP Bang, Argus,
8.7k
 
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My point is still that Peacock doesn't get hitconfirms easy and has the worst reset options in the game. This was offset by doing the most damage. Take that away and make getting solid hits harder and she loses pretty much all her good offensive traits that isn't bomb confirm into argus.
 
Considering I'm doing 8.7k with 1 meter, no assist and no corner, she STILL does some of the highest damage in the game.

Going to miss triple argus though, I practiced on getting the timing for that down for the longest time.

EDIT: combo in question http://www.twitch.tv/cronos_cross/b/585385536?t=42s
 
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The bitch isn't brain dead anymore and you're all crying. Good grief.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
My point is still that Peacock doesn't get hitconfirms easy and has the worst reset options in the game. This was offset by doing the most damage. Take that away and make getting solid hits harder and she loses pretty much all her good offensive traits that isn't bomb confirm into argus.

Wuh? Isn't LK George safe on block? I don't see how she'd have problems with hit confirms if that's the case.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
But that's sort of was Peacock's thing, hard to get a solid hit in but if she did it hurt. And now her assistless BNB does under 7K, that's...... sad.
Dude, WHAT are you talking about? My easy-peasy test combo does 7k (in retail it does ~7.5):
c.LP->s.MP->s.MK /\ delayed j.MP->j.HK \/ /\ j.HP airdash j.LP->j.MP \/ (dash) s.LP->s.MP->c.HP->s.HK xx HP SoID (hold), Argus, item, HP Bang x3 (max undizzy).
I dunno what combo you're doing, but if it relied on min-scaled Argus maybe you should try coming up with a new one instead of just complaining the old one isn't what it used to be. :^)

The goal is to reduce both the length of Argus (just, y'know, in general for not waiting around) and the min-scaled damage so that tacking it onto the end of everything doesn't add 3000.
Argus still puts them a full screen away meaning they have to work to get back in, and zoning doesn't care about your undizzy being full.

Dhoppler said:
Does this mean it takes 6f longer for the bomb to come out too?
No.

Dhoppler said:
What was the other idea? This one sounds horrible. Mainly for when Peacock is in the corner,
The goal is either to get rid of assist+behind when cornered OR get rid of random fullscreen behind. One or the other, so that she either MUST wait until cornered to escape or MUST escape before that point. And I sort of prefer "must escape before that point" but whatever.

I can fix it up so it only lasts until your assist finishes their attack, but the other idea is:
HK version becomes current MK version (stops in front of them).
MK version becomes current LK version (stops halfway to them).
LK version always moves her forward a set very small distance, about as far as HK goes when they are in a little bit front of you, and will appear behind them if they are inside that distance.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
My point is still that Peacock doesn't get hitconfirms easy and has the worst reset options in the game. This was offset by doing the most damage. Take that away and make getting solid hits harder and she loses pretty much all her good offensive traits that isn't bomb confirm into argus.

Worst reset options in the game? Fucking really?

A character that, if you chose not to go for a left-right or air throw/burst bait mixup which are perfectly functional on their own(and not every character has a functionally threatening air throw/burst bait game), can still just decide to go "yeah nah fuck it i'm just gonna send you full screen now have fun navigating the minefield"? Who the fuck else gets the same reward for sending the opponent fullscreen or just setting them up midscreen again for more zoning/item drop charge mixups?

If Peacock isn't top tier enough for you, just pick L Extend already, enjoy the ridiculous easy confirms off of it, and during non-assiste confirms use item drop left-right resets off of that, and quit your bitching.
 
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agent13 said:
The bitch isn't brain dead anymore and you're all crying. Good grief.

I wouldn't call the character only 1 player is good with braindead
but that's just me ~_~
 
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Jason said:
Wuh? Isn't LK George safe on block? I don't see how she'd have problems with hit confirms if that's the case.
I don't follow, they block LK george then you what? Go for a low? lol. Sure you can poke them but unless the opponent is mashing jab or throw you're not going to get a combo.

Mike_Z said:
c.LP->s.MP->s.MK /\ delayed j.MP->j.HK \/ /\ j.HP airdash j.LP->j.MP \/ (dash) s.LP->s.MP->c.HP->s.HK xx HP SoID (hold), Argus, item, HP Bang x3 (max undizzy).
Well in all honesty the combo I initially practiced did 6.9K something so I said it did under 7K. Also for some reason the first time I did the combo you listed it only did 6.8K, but retried and got a hair over 7K.
 
unrelated to peacock, I was trying out the new pinion motion today in training mode

i'm not sure what to do with it, but just noticed that one can set macros on the controller menu (as LP+MP and LK+MK) to make it a one button charge so that's interesting.
 
ClarenceMage said:
Worst reset options in the game? Fucking really?

A character that, if you chose not to go for a left-right or air throw/burst bait mixup which are perfectly functional on their own(and not every character has a functionally threatening air throw/burst bait game), can still just decide to go "yeah nah fuck it i'm just gonna send you full screen now have fun navigating the minefield"?
I was referring to resets. Sending you fullscreen and forcing you to "navigate the minefield" isn't a reset. Also I wouldn't call her airthrow/burstbait mixup particularly threatening. The only people who burst against me are those who don't know the matchup and the good people I've played often tech her airthrows that are arguably a bit easier to see coming than most. Also her left/right is good but put that and what else she has against what other characters can do (Except perhaps Big Bang) and I still say Peacock's reset options are some of the weakest.
 
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i have to admit im pretty happy with the teleport change. the less vergil bullshit in skullgirls the better imo.

i have to agree too that the character who can force you to eat a tonne of chip damage without even a guarantee of getting in shouldnt be also doing the most damage in the game.
 
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My only problem with peacock is L bomb being plus on block. Other than that, for me it's ok to leave, even the teleport.
 
dekillsage said:
I wouldn't call the character only 1 player is good with braindead
but that's just me ~_~


I wouldnt call mulnim,cisco,jem,rikers, au folks, mcpeanuts, mr.peck, remikz, and Dhoppler bad (with lots of intermediates running the character as well)... But thaaaaaaaaats just me.
I guess we need to be top 8 at evo to be good with a character.
 
Dime_x said:
I wouldnt call mulnim,cisco,jem,rikers, au folks, mcpeanuts, mr.peck, remikz, and Dhoppler bad (with lots of intermediates running the character as well)... But thaaaaaaaaats just me.
I guess we need to be top 8 at evo to be good with a character.
It's more so that TJ's Peacock is clearly levels above them. They aren't bad by any means, but playing vs TJ and then playing any other Peacock is a completely different experience.
 
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Swiftfox-Dash said:
I was referring to resets. Sending you fullscreen and forcing you to "navigate the minefield" isn't a reset.

It's not a reset in the traditional "stop the combo and do a mixup" sense but you can set up shit like they get knocked down->Do the appropriate george to make them block on wakeup->call item->dash forward->call assist->after they block that shit, crossup/not crossup item drop. Just as one suggestion.

Explore setups that assume the opponent is going to successfully block the first section of the setup, and you'll have a stronger setplay than just trying to do a raw mixup. With some characters I have that can set up safejumps, this is a really strong method of conditioning and mixing people up.

Swiftfox-Dash said:
Also I wouldn't call her airthrow/burstbait mixup particularly threatening. The only people who burst against me are those who don't know the matchup and the good people I've played often tech her airthrows that are arguably a bit easier to see coming than most.

What setup are you currently using? A properly timed air throw/IPS j.HP burst bait should be un-reactable. Maybe another issue is that you don't have anything threatening to do after your opponent eats an air throw so they don't feel the need to eat burst baits or something. You might also be trying to do burst baits at IPS early instead of late where undizzy is a threat. This is where L Extend comes in to save the day.

For damage at max undizzy, Air throw, j.LK+L Extend, H Item charge, argus item drop argus. It's easy 5k(on beta patch, did like 6k in retail).

For setup after air throw, j.LK s.LP c.HP+L Extend+H Item, j.HK and now you've got an unscaled item drop left-right starter.

With enough threats after air throw, and with proper conditioning, you're going to burst bait some people successfully, and get a big-ass counter hit combo starter.

pick l extend
pick l extend
pick l extend
 
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KhaosMuffins said:
It's more so that TJ's Peacock is clearly levels above them. They aren't bad, but playing vs TJ and then playing any other Peacock is a completely different experience.


Ive played tj once or twice. He's freaking awesome and after 2 games i quit because i knew that it would take me 20 games just to take one off of him. But how much of that is teleporting behind hlnl and getting another screen to run away with?

Watch any of tjs games and you will see him abusing this over and over again. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, he's the strongest peacock ive ever played against, but to say hes the only "good" one is fucking disrespectful as all hell to all the other good peacocks out there and the people that they beat or give troubles to.

My 2013 evo peacock was trash and i still did well with her. Which is why i dropped her cause shes boring and braindead.
 
I didn't have some hard numbers that I needed for the math on Teleport + Pillar back when Skarmand was still playing Peacock, but working with estimates, I'm pretty sure it's either safe on block or peacock's advantage.

The problem with those setups seems like it has more to do with the lack of visibility + shorter recovery Peacock has when compared to Fleshstep used in the same circumstances and I'd be curious to see what the startup/recovery changes alone do to them without the no-crossup-with-assist exception in place.

I don't like the idea of Pea not being able to do this when Double or Bella get to whenever, even if theirs are visible/above-ground.
 
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@Swiftfox-Dash
Don't become someone I don't listen to because you hyperbolize everything.

Time for some actual analysis: the maximum difference in a fully scaled Argus is currently 540 damage.
Retail: 320 initial part fully scaled, 30 shots at 64 damage each.
Beta: 420 initial part fully scaled, 20 shots at 64 damage each.
So the Beta loses up to 640 damage from 10 fewer shots but gains 100 from the initial laser, resulting in a net maximum loss of 540 damage.
But because shots can miss and the longer volley allows more shots to miss (keep the average hit percentage the same), the effective difference is about 350.

So sure, a triple Argus combo will lose 1.5k, but your 1-meter BnB lost 500 maximum. This is not the difference between top tier and garbage tier.

Swiftfox-Dash said:
Also for some reason the first time I did the combo you listed it only did 6.8K, but retried and got a hair over 7K.
That's how Argus works, you know that. :^P
 
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ClarenceMage said:
It's not a reset in the traditional "stop the combo and do a mixup" sense but you can set up shit like they get knocked down->Do the appropriate george to make them block on wakeup->call item->dash forward->call assist->after they block that shit, crossup/not crossup item drop. Just as one suggestion.

Explore setups that assume the opponent is going to successfully block the first section of the setup, and you'll have a stronger setplay than just trying to do a raw mixup. With some characters I have that can set up safejumps, this is a really strong method of conditioning and mixing people up.
I get what you're saying but I was specifically referring to her "stop the combo and do a mixup" potential not setups in general. Also against characters without air supers I do have one specific reset that is 50/50, though a bit unreliable against heavies. In that instance doing a "raw mixup" can be extremely beneficial over other setups.

Also I play characters that I like, I am not fond of playing Big Band. While I have seen the usefulness of that assist I'm not going to pick up a character I don't feel is right for my playstyle just for the assist. Also I can threaten opponents pretty well after an airthrow regardless of undizzy. I can do an overheard, low or throw the second we land but that of course depends on the opposing character and their reversal options. Heck sometimes I do what other people are complaining about currently and just do a normal combo and let them burst, letting me get fullscreen. I thank you for the attempt at advice but I think I know my way around Peacock =p.
 
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KhaosMuffins said:
It's more so that TJ's Peacock is clearly levels above them. They aren't bad, but playing vs TJ and then playing any other Peacock is a completely different experience.

why_couldnt_PNW_beat_skarmands_peacock.mp4
 
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I was actually just hoping for a damage nerf too. Why the best zoner in the game with the best neutral in the game with just about one of everything in the game, with the most meter gain in the game also has some of the highest combo damage in the game has always confused me.

I called it a while back, and though this may now be different with these changes, I speculate that Peacock is the character that scales the best over the life of this game. She's shown herself to be top tier in most aspects, and she's even solid in places she's ostensibly supposed to be weak (her close game).

I'm glad to see where these changes take her.

Also, @ninja-nutria

Do the frame changes on tele fake affect your 3 meter ToD?
 
Hilary said:
why_couldnt_PNW_beat_skarmands_peacock.mp4
Excuse me
I'm pretty sure I've only ever fought his Peacock online. By the time we actually got to play each other offline he had already dropped Peacock so it doesn't count
 
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Yaya said:
Excuse me
I'm pretty sure I've only ever fought his Peacock online. By the time we actually got to play each other offline he had already dropped Peacock so it doesn't count

Or maybe it counts as "undefeated and retired"?
 
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