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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Can peacock not combo off of airthrow at any height with j.mk airdash j.lk?
 
Peacock lost combo damage so she isnt nearly the most damaging character via combos along with via chip and stray hits.

Peacock lost some upclose strengths and that assist teleport escape and blockstun item drop.

I think the goal is to rely on zoning and space instead of having that and a strong up close along with high damage combos and strong runaway/escape options. Like these changes weaken damage and options for rushdown mixup combo oriented peacock's not so much defensive, lame or keepaway damage but did weaken the go to runaway escape options and strengthen a couple of tools that you can use to keep out.
 
dekillsage said:
Can peacock not combo off of airthrow at any height with j.mk airdash j.lk?
Not without an assist or near a corner. I was sorta able to do it on painwheel but it seems super strict.
 
akindhobo said:
for 2 bars squigly gets both stances installed for 30-50 seconds and does not deteriorate when she is tagged out. not sure how useful this would be but seems like a fun experiment.


Real talk though It would be nice if SBO didn't go away if you get hit from a projectile. Sure if its a physical hit but its so disheartening to get a charge on peacock and sing into sbo but then you have to block an air bomb and can't convert. Back me up @Dreamepitaph
man i just want lvl2 sing > SBO would allow SBO to stay regardless if i got hit or not.
 
RemiKz said:
Not without an assist or near a corner. I was sorta able to do it on painwheel but it seems super strict.

I see. Well that kinda sucks. We'll see if it stays that way.

Glad double has gotten 2 small buffs so far. I'll gladly take every little thing to make her better.
 
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Why not make Peacock's HK teleport travel backwards? Leave MK and LK as is.
 
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eh idk if I'd like peacock to have that power.
she just kills a character puts you in corner pressure and then goes fullscreen for free? noty
 
The change to MK Bomber is really dumb and the exact opposite of what I believe Mike should have done.

With LK bomber becoming a much better reversal option, it makes sense to just remove all invuln from MK Bomber and turn it into a pure lockdown assist. The new MK Bomber just seems like a much worse reversal option than LK and takes away her best assist in the process.
 
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Yaya said:
The change to MK Bomber is really dumb and the exact opposite of what I believe Mike should have done.

With LK bomber becoming a much better reversal option, it makes sense to just remove all invuln from MK Bomber and turn it into a pure lockdown assist. The new MK Bomber just seems like a much worse reversal option than LK and takes away her best assist in the process.
I don't see why this had to happen at all. I understand buffing s.mp to make it have use, but the nerf to both lk and mk bomber seems pretty excessive. All I know is that mk bomber actually traded alot, and I never used it as a reversal because of that. Lk bomber pre change was nice, just not nice enough i guess. This change seems to nerf both bombers, as assists and on point. More invincibility would have been nice, but it being sped up and less hits is very bad imo. Also, why make one of doubles 3 specials, that are all situationally usable on point besides as combo fodder, bad. Did she deserve bomber being bad?
 
This calls for an IRL SourPls out the door and into the beta
tomorrow
 
cloudKing211 said:
I don't see why this had to happen at all. I understand buffing s.mp to make it have use, but the nerf to both lk and mk bomber seems pretty excessive. All I know is that mk bomber actually traded alot, and I never used it as a reversal because of that. Lk bomber pre change was nice, just not nice enough i guess. This change seems to nerf both bombers, as assists and on point. More invincibility would have been nice, but it being sped up and less hits is very bad imo. Also, why make one of doubles 3 specials, that are all situationally usable on point besides as combo fodder, bad. Did she deserve bomber being bad?
Sounds to me like Double needs Pinion Dash.
 
Yaya said:
The change to MK Bomber is really dumb and the exact opposite of what I believe Mike should have done.

With LK bomber becoming a much better reversal option, it makes sense to just remove all invuln from MK Bomber and turn it into a pure lockdown assist. The new MK Bomber just seems like a much worse reversal option than LK and takes away her best assist in the process.

Neutral/Pressure uses aside, I will actually be sad if Valentine sHKx2 x Vial + Bomber shenanigans no longer work.
 
Wait, what about LK bomber is bad now? Unless I misunderstood, it is now invincible up into the first active frame for the trade off of being 2 hits.
 
RemiKz said:
Wait, what about LK bomber is bad now? Unless I misunderstood, it is now invincible up into the first active frame for the trade off of being 2 hits.
I'm weird when it comes to double (lk is fine, just mk pretty much turned to crap)
 
what the fuck is the bomber change

edit: mk bomber goes higher, 2 hits, invul until 4f before active, goes over every char crouching


also to anyone who decides to upload ugc/salty/whatever footage to youtube, please include the beta changes.


Also yeah MK Bomber could of been used as a reversal assist but if you were playing Filia/Double, calling Updo was still a better option if you wanted them to get off you.

I feel assists are really powerful in Skullgirls and this MK Bomber change is pretty massive.

So what is bomber now? It's not lockdown anymore and it's not an optimal reversal (I assume most people take DP/Lockdown combination?) What is it? What is the point of this change besides just nerfing it because it was very popular?
 
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ashxu said:
what the fuck is the bomber change

edit: mk bomber goes higher, 2 hits, invul until 4f before active, goes over every char crouching


also to anyone who decides to upload ugc/salty/whatever footage to youtube, please include the beta changes.


Also yeah MK Bomber could of been used as a reversal assist but if you were playing Filia/Double, calling Updo was still a better option if you wanted them to get off you.

I feel assists are really powerful in Skullgirls and this MK Bomber change is pretty massive.

So what is bomber now? It's not lockdown anymore and it's not an optimal reversal (I assume most people take DP/Lockdown combination?) What is it? What is the point of this change besides just nerfing it because it was very popular?
The nerf has 2 possible reasons: mike is pissed that double mains feel she is weak, so he's purposely making one of her best and most used moves crap to prove a point, or he really believes double and doubles support abilities to be too good against the rest of the cast (lol wut)
 
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who keeps saying this shit? I feel she has a lot of weaknesses but cat heads and mk bomber alone are worth it to pick her up.

Like it baffled me that there were people who thought Valentine was bad to begin with. I usually don't consider the opinion of people on 4chan or the Steam forums but I used to keep SH at a higher regard, now I'm not so sure.
 
The reason why it's one of the 2 reasons I listed is because in balancing (at least according to what I've seen: disclaimer) doubles utility as an assist and overall synergy with teammates is a good tradeoff for having somewhat lackluster neutral and limited options under pressure. What I don't get is making mk bomber a move that's just feels bad in everyway
 
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loool mk goes over crouching people 100% of the time instead of its old 80% of the time that's neat.
 
So I just played with big bands jump cancel parry. I think i can say fukua isn't just a flat out horrible matchup now. Like now I can jump > parry> double jump and It avoids like everything. Getting through peacock stuff is way easier too.
 
ashxu said:
mk bomber goes higher, 2 hits, invul until 4f before active, goes over every char crouching
you forgot that it is now active for the entire duration of the move as opposed to having gaps in between hits
 
The new MK Hornet's additional height reminds me a bit of Bandit Bringer or Power Dunk.

And did Mike mention Painwheel's new pinion input last night? I couldn't stay up for the entire broadcast because timezones and sleep.
 
People are always talking about how "every SG char is good & viable" so why are there always such massive nerfs? kinda getting sick of it. Next you'll tell me bella no longer has armor or Filia can't air dash anymore.
 
It seems to me that the nerfs aren't really to make characters worse, but to make things less auto-pilot-able.
 
Well double wasn't made worse, just maybe her assists.
 
RemiKz said:
Well double wasn't made worse, just maybe her assists.
Please explain how buffing lk/mk bomber on point/nerf as assist hasn't made her worse. Teams that take advantage of bomber distance, time active and it being a good lockdown will just not be able to. Why wasn't lk bomber buffed on point, and mk bomber loses invincibility as an assist, like Yaya suggested. That sounds alot better than an odd AA pseudo - dp

EditWhat is specifically auto pilotable about bomber? Everyone that uses assists generally use them often. And if certain moves are used often should we just make it so they are really different from what they were? I hope I'm proven wrong and this will be beneficial for double, but from what I saw I'm not too hopeful
 
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Auto pilotable, from what I think i understand, being dp lock down hybrid. It doesnt seem like you have to really make any decisions both when picking an assist and using it. It's a dp when you need it, and a lock down tool every other time. With the crouching mk bomber thing, before it seemed like you didn't have to worry at all, just call bomber and it'll do what you want.

Or something. I don't know what yaya suggested, and I can only guess at mikes intentions (until he comes over here and tells me how wrong I am).
 
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Please nerf bella so I have to actually get good instead of being biggest fraud EU.





(But not deflector pls thx)
 
="Zidiane, post: 207552, member: 799" With the crouching mk bomber thing, before it seemed like you didn't have to worry at all, just call bomber and it'll do what you want.

old mk bomber would wiff/ stop working vs people who were crouching before most of the time, now its 100% of the time and it doesn't drag you to the floor like drill does and wasn't as fast and easy to confirm off of as beat extend is.

The assist was good, lk was better unless you played bella, and it was worthless on point. Oh well

edit: amazing quote pls
 
Ok i just saw the bomber change. Knee jerk reaction is it doesnt look like all that bad of a nerf for pws use of it at least. It seems to nerf downback plus call bomber, but no one blocks bomber crouching if they are playing against filia or painwheel anyways since both characters are airborn when they call it or will be airborn quickly.this looks like more of a nerf to bombers defensive aspect which. I didnt really use it for anyways. The lk bomber change looks like it could be a stealth buff.

2 hits doesnt look hard to confirm off of since people are going to autopilot dashing after it anyways and it looks like it knocks less far away. And finally, since it is fully invincible it may actually be a very good ac now against things like blocked cats and general pressure.


Will have to play to see how this actually works out but all in all I'm not to scared of the double changes at all from a knee jerk perspective.


Also, a useable gtfo is amazing and just what double needed imho.
 
By dp are you implying that mk bomber would be called as a reversal? Bc mk bomber would trade alot so if an opponent was using it as a reversal, you would see it trade alot more than you think, down back bomber works just like down back copter, butchers blade, hairball, etc. The few frames or so of invul is what would sometimes screw people over. This does not make it a dp, but the invul being removed would have been better than this change imo
 
cloudKing211 said:
By dp are you implying that mk bomber would be called as a reversal? Bc mk bomber would trade alot so if an opponent was using it as a reversal, you would see it trade alot more than you think, down back bomber works just like down back copter, butchers blade, hairball, etc. The few frames or so of invul is what would sometimes screw people over. This does not make it a dp, but the invul being removed would have been better than this change imo


When talking reversal I'm talking about lk bomber. From what mike said on the stream it is fully invincible from frame one until the first active frame, which is different from retail because retail lk bomber is vulnerable for the first 3-4 active frames making it a useless reversal/ac against meaties and things like blocked cats pressure.

Down backing mk bomber is completely different from down backing copter. Copter has no invincible frames and puts crouchblockers into lockdown. Butchers blade is vulnerable for much of its startup as well.


Mk bomber in retail locks down cornered and standing opponents, but goes over crouching opponents, whereas now it ALWAYS goes over crouching opponents so, it will always be a move that you can dash up and block crouching and recover way faster than if you had stand blocked it... Which makes crouching it a kind of bait if the opponent was expecting it to hit or for you to stand block.


On paper i like these changes cause they seem to force smarter play while not nerfing the already smart play that the assists and point uses could already be used for.


On paper...
 
Dime_x said:
On paper i like these changes cause they seem to force smarter play while not nerfing the already smart play that the assists and point uses could already be used for.


On paper...
So by smart play you mean don't use M bomber? Got it
(On paper the move lost most, if not the greatest part of its utility, which means on paper it would be smarter not to use it at all)
 
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cloudKing211 said:
So by smart play you mean don't use M bomber? Got it
(On paper the move lost most, if not the greatest part of its utility, which means on paper it would be smarter not to use it at all)


Call it from further away while you are airborn.

They cant duck it cause you are airborn and they will get overheaded, and it wont be duckable by characters like filia since you called it from further away and it will make contact with its descending arc rather than its ascending ones.

When i said smarter i meant... Actually smarter. Learn what the moves uses are and its good ranges are, like anything else.

It has more startup invincibility than before but is still great from a midrange perspective and for doing things like moving in. Which is basically all "i" used it for anyways. If i want gtfo i call updo/pillar/beat extend instead.


But arguing it now is pointless. We wont be able to see how it actually affects stuff till we try it out.

I will completely change my tune if characters are stand blocking it for one hit, consistently, which i think might be an actual problem.
 
Dime_x said:
wall of text
i mean if it doesn't really do what i want it to do though perhaps i'm just better off picking up another assist instead of trying to adjust to an assist that i don't really like
 
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I use bomber for combos and resets. This completely destroys that, to the point that double might not be worth using, even though I like her (current) gameplay.
Edit: also dime x. Generally the people that use bomber as GTFO get wrecked. Not arguing for that as a reason for old m bomber to stay, so I have no idea why you raised that point again
 
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