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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I kinda like the idea of giving fiber upper body invincibility so it can still be a good anti-air, while not a reversal. A similar idea would be having vulnerable startup frames, but some invincibility after that. For now, though, I need to fight all the Painwheels and Vals on beta so I can truly experience blocking.
 
Quick question about the headless fiber upper. Let's say that Fortune tags out for any reason with her head off. Will it still not have any hit invincibility? Or will it have assist only properties to keep fiber upper as a viable reversal assist at all times?
 
Dhoppler said:
Quick question about the headless fiber upper. Let's say that Fortune tags out for any reason with her head off. Will it still not have any hit invincibility? Or will it have assist only properties to keep fiber upper as a viable reversal assist at all times?
Going to go on an unofficial limb and say that the assist move will have the same properties as point based on precedence (except for updos).
 
updos are the very reason I'm asking
 
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Oh yeah, Fiber could be invincible as an assist no matter what, but we could still have headless Fiber be vulnerable.
 
Yeah, I'm willing to do that.
[edit] Though it's worth nothing that I'd be fine reverting point Updo to not be multiple hits, it's only multihit because that looks cooler.
 
After playing Elda Taluda yesterday and Guitalex today at Final Round in the beta:

- j.HP change is very nice, both knockback and speed wise. It's still not all that great air-to-air compared to j.LK when you're at a height and j.MP (which I just rediscovered), but it's a much better jump-in and mixup tool.
- Headless Fortune is still strong, but it's harder to use her
- Headless Fiber Upper nerf was... harsh but now I have a reason to go head-on instead; it was necessary *grumble*
- Fiber Upper is noticeably easier to punish when you block it at a high height
- Using Headless Fiber as a poke is not a good idea. Lots of trades and it's easier to punish now
- Fortune is still strong overall, head-on and headless. Still the best character in the game? We'll see.
 
Speaking of Fiber (and I mentioned this in a thread yesterday), you can't follow-through if you don't connect with the first hit of M Fiber, but you land the second hit. Are you only supposed to be able to follow-through if you land the first Fiber hit?
 
RetroStation said:
Speaking of Fiber (and I mentioned this in a thread yesterday), you can't follow-through if you don't connect with the first hit of M Fiber, but you land the second hit. Are you only supposed to be able to follow-through if you land the first Fiber hit?
Yes, in all versions of fiber since MDE I believe.
 
CaioLugon said:
Yes, in all versions of fiber since MDE I believe.
It doesn't really affect L Fiber since it's only one hit, but not being able to convert from multi-hit Fibers because you didn't connect with the first hit is... Kinda dumb imo.
 
It was to prevent the attack from being dumber than it already was. You could throw HK fiber upper at someone from max range and be safe if they block it, and convert into a combo if they didn't.
 
I was wondering if the headless fiber could have an any hit follow up since it is no longer invuln and it's just plain risky to use. I just think it would be nice for the move to have some sort of use other than 'super awesome mobility' option.

that last part may backfire on me.

Although I'm not sure if that would make it too strong or not, mostly just curious what it would do since we're experimenting and all.
 
That would actually make sneeze followups to feral edge more consistent I think.
 
What if head call was faster and/or was able to cancel headbutt/slide to allow her to put the head back on more quickly?

Since Headless only gets the final rekka as stand-alone special moves, does that mean head call can be made fast again?

Could fortune's IAD height be put back to head-on height if she loses fiber invuln?
 
I think IAD headless pressure would be dumb.
 
Generally you don't balance the strongest character by nerfing them, then giving them huge buffs. Let's take back IAD j.LK MK against crouchers while we're at it!

I do like the slide/headbutt into cat call idea though.
 
That was a thing in vanilla SG
 
RemiKz said:
That was a thing in vanilla SG
He means canceling headbutt into cat call to roman cancel the head itself.
 
Note that it wouldn't get rid of cooldown, duders. In fact it'll probably add the same cooldown that doing sneeze or nom would. So if you don't use it to actually recall the head, you're not getting much.
 
NEW - Can cancel Zoom or Headbutt into head's Cat Call recall, only if not blocked. The cancel adds 75f of cooldown (same as Sneeze/Nom add) if the head is not actually recovered by the body.
NEW - You all can shut up about the Fiber Upper change. Thank you.

NEW - Mortuary Drop startup 6f faster, no longer super-cancellable on or after the active frames on whiff. Still super-cancellable on hit.

Getting feedback from the community is truly a blessing and a curse.

Buffed Mortuary Drop sounds scary, since you can't really jump out of it on reaction anymore.
 
Jason said:
Buffed Mortuary Drop sounds scary, since you can't really jump out of it on reaction anymore.

Finally, Skullgirls is getting some unreactable mixups that you have to beat pre-emptively

(kappa)
 
Nerfed fiber upper means its not worth using in certain matchups, like the Filia matchup, because you'll just get counterhit yourself without any invincibility and its really important to have a consistent anti-air against her pressure. So using head on vs head off Fortune in certain matchups is more important, rather than the only reason to ever use head on Fortune is "I want to die against Painwheel/Big Band less fast." Without a solid anti air you actually have to think more about what taking off the head is going to give you and take away based on the matchup and your important. That's important in fighting games right, risk vs reward? I dunno I've been playing Fortune *rimshot*.

I still am not a fan of the change (I don't have a good reason it should be invincible head off either) but its completely fair. Thank you for giving the assist back its invincibility because I think that's fair too. The one thing I would still argue for is j.HP having enough hitstun to combo into headspike now that head off Fortune actually has disadvantages and you have to think more about when to take off your head and when not to take it off versus "how fast can I take off my head and put my opponent in the blender". You can still combo into it with the axe kick combo but is doing it with headspike still too good with the changes?
 
Anyone find a use for headbutt/zoom cancel yet?
 
Not invincible fiber upper just means I have to throw out more supers.

EDIT: I kind of have an idea for the recall thing, but need to put it into practice first.
 
SkippyMcYay said:
Generally you don't balance the strongest character by nerfing them, then giving them huge buffs.

That is EXACTLY what happened to peacock after SDE.
 
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Actually, seems like Drop is still slow enough to react to if you're looking for it. Its just harder now. The frame data on the SRK wiki was wrong.

Startup went from 31f -> 25f
I thought it was 21f -> 15f
 
Stuff said:
Anyone find a use for headbutt/zoom cancel yet?
You can combo from head-off to head-on midscreen or corner with the right head positioning
 
does it involve using the otg? is zoom the easier cancel or is headbutt? is the damage okay?
 
blandaid said:
That is EXACTLY what happened to peacock after SDE.
Peacock was the strongest character in SDE?

Stuff said:
does it involve using the otg? is zoom the easier cancel or is headbutt? is the damage okay?
I'm trying it with an otg. I managed to get zoom > headcall > LP to work on Double at least.
 
so is H. Draugen Punch going to make it to the full game do you guys think?
'
 
Probably. I don't believe anyone's thought bad of it and I don't see any downside of it being there.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Nerfed fiber upper means its not worth using in certain matchups, like the Filia matchup, because you'll just get counterhit yourself without any invincibility and its really important to have a consistent anti-air against her pressure.

Which is most matchups because almost every character goes in the air.

The only matchup I see headless being more useful than head-on is the Parasoul matchup to help keep parasoul from just spamming shots all day. In every other matchup, the opponent has some way to either keep the head incapacitated, sent to the other side of the screen, or avoided completely (on top of taking extra damage from getting combo'd which will happen more often without fiber's invincibility to keep them respecting your defense).

Because of this, if you're playing fortune headless, you need a reversal assist to help make up for this new deficit in tools, hurting her anchor ability.

If you want to play solo or anchor fortune, stay head-on. If you can give fortune a DP assist, you can run her point or second and still be ok when going headless.

CSF (ground super) is always an option for a reversal, but fiber will always be better.

The fiber change makes fortune have to play much more closely with the head because nom/sneeze will still happen while she's blocking, so it's her only means of meterelss defense.
 
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Sneeze also continues while she's getting hit, remember.

And yeah, Mortuary Drop went from 31f->25f. Still the slowest command throw in the game. Gorilla is 10 (and people react to that) and Big Band's is 21. :^P
 
If assist headless fiber is invincible, could headless fiber alpha counter be invincible also?
 
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