• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Mike_Z said:
(Lots of stuff I'm cool with)

I will adjust and find new things to do, changes just means I have to get better at the game rather than settle for the minimum like I usually do >w<
 
whelp I don't know what I'm talking about, whoops
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: IsaVulpes
So yeah, I think I'd totally be cool with fiber losing invincibility if sneeze was better. It would be cool if my best option wasn't usually zoom and nom. Maybe give it a hitbox on the whole sneeze arc, or at least on the entire upward arc, or maybe make it slightly faster...
 
  • Like
Reactions: KhaosMuffins
FuLLBLeeD said:
Solution: Fiber Uppercut keeps invincibility but has more recovery, making it easier to punish when blocked in the air and giving character's better punish options (possibly counterhit launcher punishes) on the ground. I think this is honestly much fairer.

Agreed 100%.

Taking away the OTG after this doesn't really make any sense to me, its something Fortune has always had. The sliding knockdown could actually be a possible buff, because you could just call a meaty pressure assist and then get in with a mixup, and then Fortune has you in the corner in the blender.

There was a time when I was playing with PW/Fortune/Double. I was able to preserve the OTG during a Painwheel carry combo and DHC into whatever awful pun Fortune's Level 1 PP super is, and then get some real damage in. I wouldn't say it was as bad as Car > Install, but the extension/utility definitely made me a little salty.
 
Last edited:
Is it possible to prevent the head from acting at all while Fortune uses Fiber Upper or is there some unintended consequence I don't know that would result?
 
Mike_Z said:
Did you not read my post, then?

Nah. I did misread the part where he suggested more punishable recovery.

Just agreeing that it should be invuln, but punishable on block as it is in release at the moment.
 
Nap1400 said:
Is it possible to prevent the head from acting at all while Fortune uses Fiber Upper or is there some unintended consequence I don't know that would result?
That's an inconsistency I would like not to introduce.
 
Mike_Z said:
The PROBLEM is that no matter how minus Fiber itself is, HEADLESS Fiber + Zoom can always be made either safe or plus on block. So in effect, as long as the head is within half a screen, she has a safe invincible reversal that can also be a meterless combo starter. That's why this change only applies headless. IDGAF about people being able to punish it from the air, but that's a problem.
Sucks to lose an invincible reversal though. I'd rather take disabling the head for the entire fiber duration.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FuLLBLeeD
Stonechimes said:
Sucks to lose an invincible reversal though. I'd rather take disabling the head for the entire fiber duration.
And I'd rather she lose the invincible reversal.
(^.^)
 
Whoa, no more invincible safe comboable reversal for Fortune head off? I actually have to think against rushdown? Let's gooooooooooooo!
 
  • Like
Reactions: evilben
RemiKz said:
So yeah, I think I'd totally be cool with fiber losing invincibility if sneeze was better. It would be cool if my best option wasn't usually zoom and nom. Maybe give it a hitbox on the whole sneeze arc, or at least on the entire upward arc, or maybe make it slightly faster...
I second this, though I'd at least like Fiber to keep throw invulnerability at the very least, since I imagine asking for hit invulnerability would just be rejected.
 
I would be fine with throw invincibility, I understand mike's point about headless. Though now with the furserker change fortune doesn't have a DHC hit confirm unless you have a level 3 really close to the corner. I'm also sad that using a super ender after you used your otg now lets them get out of the corner with almost no tech chasing possibilities. I know the whole "fortune is so good she doesn't need strong x" is an inevitable counter point, but it IS a head on nerf so I don't see that particular argument being convincing. The +1 frame advantage mix up after the head roll cancel is cute and all, but it is pretty limiting and rather boring. I'd rather have earlier invincibility frames on the sliding knockdown rather than increased recovery if this nerf is going to stay. That way my mobility is better but it still doesn't give copious damage potential.
 
The only problem i see with these fortune nerfs is that painwheel is already advantaged against fortune and that the matchup will now just be that much easier as well.


Which may lead to more painwheel changes down the road, at the end of the day i dont see why ferserker cant just be given the deathcrawl/fenrir treatment of just having its damage nerfed.
 
You Fortune people need to sort out what you want from j.HP, first, since that's one there's actually a choice on.
Aren't I nice.

Camail said:
I'd rather have earlier invincibility frames on the sliding knockdown rather than increased recovery if this nerf is going to stay. That way my mobility is better but it still doesn't give copious damage potential.
If...I changed the last hit's slide properties so they became invincible earlier so you still couldn't follow up, instead of changing Fortune's frame data...you would still be minus the exact same amount...?
 
How about

Reverting to the beta j.HP but allow j.MK to combo into headspike?
 
Stuff said:
I miss the old beta j.hp.

I liked restands. (That weren't fiber loops)
Wat.

I'm confused. Can the new j.HP not restand or something?
 
I want the jHP as it is today. With its ability to combo into headspike and not require the learning of really awkward Fiber combos, but still being nearly as fast as Filia's jHP.
 
I dunno. I can still get 8k from it with 1 meter. Don't really care to have it changed back.
 
Mike_Z said:
You Fortune people need to sort out what you want from j.HP, first, since that's one there's actually a choice on.
Aren't I nice.


If...I changed the last hit's slide properties so they became invincible earlier so you still couldn't follow up, instead of changing Fortune's frame data...you would still be minus the exact same amount...?

The only person who wants new hp is stuff, havent heard of any other fortune who wanted to keep that change.

As for my suggestion, I completely forgot that even though it is techable after you use the otg it is still a sliding knockdown, I thought that you could add invincibility frames for the untechable version without affecting the properties of the techable knockdown version. I was suggesting that the tech window/invincibility frames for the super when the otg was used could stay the same, but during the untechable sliding knockdown (when the otg hasn't been used) the invincibility frames would start earlier so you couldn't follow up. This prevents the extra damage from any potential follow up after the super, but it doesn't add any recovery to forune so that if I am not using the super in the middle of the combo I can actually do something afterwards. This would mean changing the sliding knockdown properties for untechable version, but it leaves the techable one alone.
 
So legit question ie not trolling.

Why the MF buff? I thought she was always the "in a good place" character. Or is it compensation for the nerfs? I don't know enough about the character to really understand what's going on.
 
Spencer said:
So legit question ie not trolling.

Why the MF buff? I thought she was always the "in a good place" character. Or is it compensation for the nerfs? I don't know enough about the character to really understand what's going on.
Because anything to give head on Fortune a reason to be played is good, and anything deterring the use of headless Fortune is also good.

The headless Fortune's pressure is insane. She's also basically safe. So most of the time, most Fortunes just toss the head within two seconds of the match start. Or do a simple combo into head toss and keep it off.

Ideally, having the head on should have some advantage because her pressure is much worse than headless, and headless should have some disadvantage because she's so much better as headless.

edit: I fixed the first sentence. Now it makes sense :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: dekillsage
Ah I see.

I always liked newer headless fortunes. Put them on top of that head and go to freaking town. Huge and disgusting amounts of life lost.
 
I don't want Fiber Uppercut to lose invincibility but when I tried to argue it I fell into a pit and hit every rock on the way down with my misinformation so that's an argument for somebody else!
 
Well, if disabling the head is totally not an option, then there doesn't seem to be any other way to nerf fiber to prevent safe invincible combo-able reversal.

However, simply removing invincibility will probably also make this move unuseable as a raw attack (punishing on block with no advantage otherwise), and the fact that you can combo from it wouldn't even matter then.

BUUUUUT if we were to, say, adjust the hurtbox on the end of her feet so it wouldn't trade with freaking everything from the air, then maybe you could still use it as anti-air?

(Pretty please, @Mike_Z with sprinkles on top)
 
I still wonder why HK Fiber Upper got the invincibility to be the go-to reversal in the first place, honestly. Old LK Fiber Upper was a huge problem because it was "basically safe" on block, and now HK Fiber is a problem because it has so much range. Instead of Fortune losing invulnerability completely, can it just go back to LK when headless? Or at least take away HK's invulnerability and make LK Fiber hit or throw invulnerable, at the very least.

A part of me wants to try out the "no followup on Fiber when headless" test that happened a while back, but that'd mess with combos (though really I'm not sure if this would mess up very many important ones, but hey, beta).

I understand the reason for wanting to remove invincibility, and honestly I cannot find a way to argue against it, but I'm just throwing out possible alternatives.
 
I don't care that HK Fiber has range, at all. She can't followup from it if you're in the air, and if we reallllllllllly want it punishable it can be punishable by dragging you in, instead of pushing you out.
I care about the safe-invincible-reversal thing, and removing followups wouldn't do anything to affect that, while also hurting her combo ability AND movement while headless. And going back to LK doesn't do anything about it either.

I'm willing to try throw invin, we can do that.
 
Stonechimes said:
However, simply removing invincibility will probably also make this move unuseable as a raw attack (punishing on block with no advantage otherwise), and the fact that you can combo from it wouldn't even matter then.
You know, you can still
- Use it in combos
- Use it as a mobility tool (it's safe on whiff!)
- Be happy with taking the trade as the opponent is now dropping to the ground right on top of your head
- Hit people with it that aren't attacking or have bad hitboxes (chars stuck in an airdash, Filia doing j.HP)

I can understand that you try to preserve your "Opponent is far away? Ummm Fiber! - Opponent is midrange and on the ground? Ummm Fiber! - Opponent is midrange and in the air? Ummm Fiber! - Opponent is closerange and in the air? Ummm Fiber! - Opponent is closerange and on the ground? Ummm sometimes Fiber!"-ways, as it's lots of fun to do nothing all game aside from mashing DP, but you could try to learn other parts of the character that are a bit less braindead (hint hint you could always just play headon primarily where you even get to keep it!)

P.S. I also like the note of "HeadOn: Dominates the air with Fiber but has difficulties approaching on the ground" / "HeadOff: Dominates the ground with Head but has difficulties handling the air"
P.P.S. Buffing Sneeze in comparison (particularly if you stop the head from being pulled along on screen edge, @Mike_Z ples :[ ) sounds cool actually, would allow her to keep some DPish thing but require the head near her, so you'd have to be a little more weary about how to utilize it

FuLLBLeeD said:
I don't want Fiber Uppercut to lose invincibility but when I tried to argue it I fell into a pit and hit every rock on the way down with my misinformation so that's an argument for somebody else!
So
- You dislike Fiber change for X reasons
- All of those X reasons get proven wrong
- *Completely* unfazed, you stand by the point that you dislike the Fiber change

Are you sure those X reasons have anything to do with why you dislike the Fiber change at all?.?
[Cough cough] Or is it just "I want to mash DP in all the places but I am scared to admit that, so I will instead come up with reasons which sound 'more valid', oh shit they're all wrong, oh well someone else take over pls!!"? [/Cough cough]

E: Random sidenote @KhaosMuffins : You can always punish throws via IAD j.LK for probably around the same damage as Fiber does (I'm not versed enough in Fortune combos to give a definite here) while being much better on block.
The main thing that Throw Invuln Fiber would help with (at least to my non-fortune-playing-eyes, it's quite possible I'm missing something) would be staying safe from MGR at midrange, and I'm not sure whether you really think she needs the help against Bella :P
 
Last edited:
A good solution might be be to give it/them limited invulnerability in the way their hitboxes interact. Ie make them all vulnerable from the waist down so that they cant be used as reversals against ground moves, but give them invulnerability from the waist up so that they are still good anti airs. Therfor technically speaking they are no longer safe reversals since the ground hurtboxes arent invulnerable.

Also, just to me concise, the invulnerable frames should only be strike invulnerable.


As it is, making fiber throw immune only... Basically makes it a non reversal. Throw immune moves are largely terrible. Cant remember the last time someone used a throw invincible only move, to beat a throw. All in all i think ive seen it once.


Not strike immune takes away 99% of a moves reversal properties. Making it have limited invulnerability at certain parts seems like the best overall way to balance the move. Fortune will need to spend meter or sneeze for a ground gtfo.


Imho.
 
Her head's not getting unstuck from the screen until Skullgirls 2. That's a BIG change, and I don't agree with players having to keep track of it that far.

I might do something for Sneeze...
[edit] So I looked at Sneeze. It loses the hitbox only two frames before the upward arc ends. I'll totally add those two frames, but there's not a lot else I can do. :^P
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KhaosMuffins
IsaVulpes said:
So
- You dislike Fiber change for X reasons
- All of those X reasons get proven wrong
- *Completely* unfazed, you stand by the point that you dislike the Fiber change

Are you sure those X reasons have anything to do with why you dislike the Fiber change at all?.?
[Cough cough] Or is it just "I want to mash DP in all the places but I am scared to admit that, so I will instead come up with reasons which sound 'more valid', oh shit they're all wrong, oh well someone else take over pls!!"? [/Cough cough]
You can stop now.

IsaVulpes said:
E: Random sidenote @KhaosMuffins : You can always punish throws via IAD j.LK for probably around the same damage as Fiber does (I'm not versed enough in Fortune combos to give a definite here) while being much better on block.
The main thing that Throw Invuln Fiber would help with (at least to my non-fortune-playing-eyes, it's quite possible I'm missing something) would be staying safe from MGR at midrange, and I'm not sure whether you really think she needs the help against Bella :P
It was more of figuring that her keeping hit invulnerability would not happen, so at least keeping throw invulnerability would be nice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FuLLBLeeD
Just came here to say that I was really disappointed when I saw the Ms. Fortune jHP knockback was reverted to the old way. Is there a possibility that aspect will be re-implemented? I found it much more natural/logical to confirm off of, the new combo routes were really fun(damage is damage, I realize, but saving the OTG can be nice if you want them to remain untechable after your combo as well for better wakeup pressure), and I thought the new reset potential was great.

I saw it mentioned by another poster that the only Fortune player who liked the "new" version was Stuff -- but in reading the thread it looked like RetroStation, KhaosMuffins, guitalex2007 all also felt that it was overall a good thing -- was I reading wrong?
 
Emperor said:
I saw it mentioned by another poster that the only Fortune player who liked the "new" version was Stuff -- but in reading the thread it looked like RetroStation, KhaosMuffins, guitalex2007 all also felt that it was overall a good thing -- was I reading wrong?
Woofly also preferred it

@KhaosMuffins : I don't particularly care either way, just saying that in practice Throw Invuln moves don't play too much of a role;
If you're expecting a throw to come, you can always just jump - which is a lot easier to time, protects against more things (eg [jumpback - shortdelay - ad j.lk] also wins against mids), is better if the opponent tried to bait a super, leads to more damage (? not sure about this for Fortune, it's the case for Peacock's L.Bang), etc.
As noted, the only thing I can see Throw Invuln Fiber vs Non Invinc Fiber helping with are midrange MGRs (and I guess something like "Squigly Daisy Pushers your c.LK and you have nothing to tag into"), and I'm not so sure how much help Fortune needs there (going by that matchup chart you guys made, Fortune is 6-4 over Squigs and 7-3 over Bella).

Also, stop what? If it's just personal banter, can also send me whatevers on IRC instead to not clutter forums
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woofly
I enjoy Squigly H DP it makes a better stunt double than Drag n' Bite
 
Someone make a poll that includes all the aspects of j.hp and we'll find what most people here would like to see implemented.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DDB
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back